It's getting hot in here.
May 25, 2010 7:34 PM Subscribe
How much of a pain is it to get central air installed in a home with no ductwork. What's involved financially and otherwise?
I live in a one-story, 1100 square foot home with hot water baseboard heat (read: no ducts). It gets stupid hot in the summer, probably thanks to our great insulation in the attic... nice in winter, though.
In my super dream unicorn rainbow puppydog fantasyland, I will have central air conditioning and it will be inexpensive and easily installed.
But let's get realistic:
1) What kind of cost am I looking at just for the ductwork and the a/c unit?
2) Will installation take over my home for weeks and weeks, or is this a relatively easy job (for a qualified professional of course, we're not talking DIY here)? How long will it take and how much disruption is involved.
3) Is it worth it? I guess only I can answer that, but maybe you have some experiences to share ("I did it and it was the biggest mistake of my life..." "My life has hit a new level of awesome...").
4) Is there any value to the "ductless" a/c units like Mr. Slim?
I live in a one-story, 1100 square foot home with hot water baseboard heat (read: no ducts). It gets stupid hot in the summer, probably thanks to our great insulation in the attic... nice in winter, though.
In my super dream unicorn rainbow puppydog fantasyland, I will have central air conditioning and it will be inexpensive and easily installed.
But let's get realistic:
1) What kind of cost am I looking at just for the ductwork and the a/c unit?
2) Will installation take over my home for weeks and weeks, or is this a relatively easy job (for a qualified professional of course, we're not talking DIY here)? How long will it take and how much disruption is involved.
3) Is it worth it? I guess only I can answer that, but maybe you have some experiences to share ("I did it and it was the biggest mistake of my life..." "My life has hit a new level of awesome...").
4) Is there any value to the "ductless" a/c units like Mr. Slim?
From the NY times.
I can tell you is that when the A/C unit broke at my moms' (4 bedroom, split level) house, it was about $6,000 to have it replaced. The house was already set up with ducts etc. According to the above, figure around ten thousand or a little more to retrofit.
I don't know if this would be possible for your situation, but I think she financed it via the power/gas company such that the cost was spread over months/years and added to the utility bills.
I've since lived in apartments with and without A/C (and both window and central air), and I couldn't consider going back ever.
posted by tremspeed at 8:03 PM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
I can tell you is that when the A/C unit broke at my moms' (4 bedroom, split level) house, it was about $6,000 to have it replaced. The house was already set up with ducts etc. According to the above, figure around ten thousand or a little more to retrofit.
I don't know if this would be possible for your situation, but I think she financed it via the power/gas company such that the cost was spread over months/years and added to the utility bills.
I've since lived in apartments with and without A/C (and both window and central air), and I couldn't consider going back ever.
posted by tremspeed at 8:03 PM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
Is your attic accessible? What style roof is it and do you have a gable on at least one end? If yes to both of these then I've installed quite a few self contained (commercial style) systems on gable ends and then ducted them through the attic. You can also mount them directly on the roof if it is strong enough. Generally installing the systems in this manner took one day for me the HVAC contractor, a couple hours for an electrician, and a few hours to a couple days for carpentry work (depending on how the unit was supported. Most of that can be done simultaneously in a single day though the electrical can drag out for a couple days if it needs to be inspected.
The ductless systems work well too though they are a) more expensive and b) not central. You'd need an evaporator in each room or set of connected rooms with good air flow you want to cool.
Once the ducts are in and everything is verified to be working correctly is a good time to blow in additional attic insulation. Both to insulate the A/C ducts and also to keep your cold in.
posted by Mitheral at 8:14 PM on May 25, 2010
The ductless systems work well too though they are a) more expensive and b) not central. You'd need an evaporator in each room or set of connected rooms with good air flow you want to cool.
Once the ducts are in and everything is verified to be working correctly is a good time to blow in additional attic insulation. Both to insulate the A/C ducts and also to keep your cold in.
posted by Mitheral at 8:14 PM on May 25, 2010
You have not said whether you live on a slab or raised foundation. If you want to go with traditional heat pump or stand alone a/c there are a couple of different approaches. If you are on a raised foundation, the measurements will take a couple of hours, the fabrication (off site) will take a couple of days, and the installation of floor registers and a return air duct will take a day. The actual setting of the unit and running power to it, might take another day.
If you are on a slab, it would take about the same amount of time, but the installation would be a little trickier, with the possibility of registers in the ceiling (not the best solution, but fast) or registers set in the walls just below ceiling level.
Costs depend on where you are, how big a system you want, what the available electricity situation is, etc. Figure $6K to $10K. I don't know if there are any tax advantages still out there or not. Check with your local utility company.
posted by Old Geezer at 8:21 PM on May 25, 2010
If you are on a slab, it would take about the same amount of time, but the installation would be a little trickier, with the possibility of registers in the ceiling (not the best solution, but fast) or registers set in the walls just below ceiling level.
Costs depend on where you are, how big a system you want, what the available electricity situation is, etc. Figure $6K to $10K. I don't know if there are any tax advantages still out there or not. Check with your local utility company.
posted by Old Geezer at 8:21 PM on May 25, 2010
The attic insulation actually helps you in the summer as well - the attic gets much hotter than the inside of the house. Make sure that your attic is properly vented, though - this will help keep your house a bit cooler.
posted by davey_darling at 8:39 PM on May 25, 2010
posted by davey_darling at 8:39 PM on May 25, 2010
If you have a crawl space under your single-story house this won't be too hard. You could do most of it yourself. I used to do this kind of work and I could sling a mean duct 3 days after I started the job. You'll probably need help cutting the holes and wiring, but most of the labor cost is the ducts.
If you have an attic, you might want to think about a way to route the AC through ceiling vents.
This is also a good time to think about an electronic air filter. It won't add much to the bill.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 8:57 PM on May 25, 2010
If you have an attic, you might want to think about a way to route the AC through ceiling vents.
This is also a good time to think about an electronic air filter. It won't add much to the bill.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 8:57 PM on May 25, 2010
I'm about to buy a home with radiator heat, and have looked into the same thing. Another option to what's been mentioned already are the high-velocity small duct systems. Unico and Space Pak are the two systems that I've heard of. Haven't done an estimate yet, but I'd bet it's $10k or more. There are pluses and minuses for the high velocity systems, so do your research and decide if it's right for you. I think it's what we'll go with, eventually. We're buying an older home that probably doesn't have the space in the walls/floors/ceilings to have ducts - meaning we'd have to build out bulkheads and would rather not do that. The high velocity systems require much less space, but you do have the trade off of the speed of air coming out of the vents, which can seem drafty to some.
posted by misskaz at 9:00 PM on May 25, 2010
posted by misskaz at 9:00 PM on May 25, 2010
Oh, just saw Davey's suggestion-a fan at both ends of the attic helps too.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 9:01 PM on May 25, 2010
posted by Mr. Yuck at 9:01 PM on May 25, 2010
Japan operates pretty much solely on the ductless system, especially for home cooling/heating. The main problem with this is that it tends to leave certain (like the bathrooms) areas somewhat hot in the summer, since they generally aren't big enough to get their own units. However, it also allows room-by-room control of temperatures, which is good if you aren't using some rooms for a good portion of the day.
As long as you get the right sizes to match your house/rooms they work perfectly fine. If you try to use one (inside) unit to cool the whole place (like my sister was trying to do) it won't work.
A/C is totally worth it, if just for those few sticky damp days a year where the A/C can pull out that moisture and make sleeping possible again. Finding some way to get the heat out of your attic may well help, too.
posted by that girl at 9:06 PM on May 25, 2010
As long as you get the right sizes to match your house/rooms they work perfectly fine. If you try to use one (inside) unit to cool the whole place (like my sister was trying to do) it won't work.
A/C is totally worth it, if just for those few sticky damp days a year where the A/C can pull out that moisture and make sleeping possible again. Finding some way to get the heat out of your attic may well help, too.
posted by that girl at 9:06 PM on May 25, 2010
Probably not cheap. The house my dad owns has swamp (evaopative) coolers and they hate them. They have duct work, but not for returns and there is one for each level of the house. They quote they got was ~$10k a couple years ago for central A/C.
posted by DJWeezy at 9:18 PM on May 25, 2010
posted by DJWeezy at 9:18 PM on May 25, 2010
We did what wierdo writes about- our unit is a Mitsubishi with heads in the living room and master bedroom, and the whole setup cost us about $3000 Canadian.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 9:51 PM on May 25, 2010
posted by ethnomethodologist at 9:51 PM on May 25, 2010
I've seen people add AC to their house without ducts, through tubes -- the tubes are snaked through walls and floors, then there's a hole in the ceiling (not unlike a recessed light) for each tube. Depending on the size of the room, you may have one tube, or many. There's no vent adjustment (flow or aiming) within the room, though, and this is done to keep from tearing up landmark-type housing, not to save money -- so I don't know what the cost would be.
posted by davejay at 10:32 PM on May 25, 2010
posted by davejay at 10:32 PM on May 25, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks for all of the info so far! Still taking it all in and thinking about options, but re: your questions:
-The attic is accessible and there's nothing up there but blown insulation.
-We do have a gable side.
-We're not on a slab. Foundation/basement.
posted by dayintoday at 4:15 AM on May 26, 2010
-The attic is accessible and there's nothing up there but blown insulation.
-We do have a gable side.
-We're not on a slab. Foundation/basement.
posted by dayintoday at 4:15 AM on May 26, 2010
A basement makes any option easier. Having had both at various times, my personal preference when it comes to forced air is floor vents. The only problem, of course, is that you'll create headroom impairments in the basement where the ducts are routed. Something to think about if you use your basement much.
One of the biggest advantages to the traditional system is that it's easier to find someone to repair it. Everybody knows how to fix 'em. Other types might be harder to get serviced. Generally, they are lower efficiency than the higher-end split systems, though. I was looking at one yesterday that has a SEER of 26.
Also, some of the larger cassette style (they mount in the ceiling) split indoor units can divert some of their air through traditional ductwork to a nearby room, helping solve the hot bathroom issue.
posted by wierdo at 3:00 PM on May 26, 2010
One of the biggest advantages to the traditional system is that it's easier to find someone to repair it. Everybody knows how to fix 'em. Other types might be harder to get serviced. Generally, they are lower efficiency than the higher-end split systems, though. I was looking at one yesterday that has a SEER of 26.
Also, some of the larger cassette style (they mount in the ceiling) split indoor units can divert some of their air through traditional ductwork to a nearby room, helping solve the hot bathroom issue.
posted by wierdo at 3:00 PM on May 26, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
Basically, there's a compressor outside similar to a traditional AC, but rather than have one central blower, you have refrigerant lines running to a bunch of separate indoor units. They generally mount on the wall and look vaguely like small hotel air conditioners.
Not only do you save the space for ductwork (the lines can easily be fished through the walls) but you gain better temperature control, since different rooms can more easily have different thermostat settings (or be turned off entirely completely independently of each other).
I haven't had them installed in my own house (the place had retrofitted central AC when we bought it), but I've had them installed at several clients for server room cooling and they work great. They're not terribly expensive, but you're still looking at thousands of dollars.
posted by wierdo at 8:01 PM on May 25, 2010 [1 favorite]