"Yeah, but I think punctuality is slightly different from rhythm."
May 21, 2010 8:27 AM Subscribe
[HobbyFilter] Help a guy with a demonstrated inaptitude for music make some.
I'm a big ole music geek about everything except making it. I have no sense of timing at all. It's just lost on me. I get lost trying to clap to the simplest of 4/4 beats. I tried to snap along to a Buddy Holly song and my coworker mimicked it by pretty much acting out a full body seizure. I am as naturally bad at Guitar Hero as some people are naturally good.
...but I still want to rock. Well, I want to make old-school-style electronic music. In the style of Brandon Bethancourt or Kavinsky or College.
Now, I don't have any electronic musician friends or money for hardware or classes, so I want to start out with just a software solution and guides. What's a good and well-documented Baby's First Tracker? Good web-based guides? Good web-based guides that assume you're an absolute idiot? That's what I need to start with. I have Korg DS-10 but the documentation blows and the interface is limiting.
I'm a big ole music geek about everything except making it. I have no sense of timing at all. It's just lost on me. I get lost trying to clap to the simplest of 4/4 beats. I tried to snap along to a Buddy Holly song and my coworker mimicked it by pretty much acting out a full body seizure. I am as naturally bad at Guitar Hero as some people are naturally good.
...but I still want to rock. Well, I want to make old-school-style electronic music. In the style of Brandon Bethancourt or Kavinsky or College.
Now, I don't have any electronic musician friends or money for hardware or classes, so I want to start out with just a software solution and guides. What's a good and well-documented Baby's First Tracker? Good web-based guides? Good web-based guides that assume you're an absolute idiot? That's what I need to start with. I have Korg DS-10 but the documentation blows and the interface is limiting.
I've heard pretty good things about Fruity loops as far as ease of use and abilities to learn... and it seems like there is a lot of room to grow with it up to a certain point with some of the more "professional" versions they have now. I would also look into downloading some free VSTs of old synths and drum machines that you can master. There are quite a good few out there that replicate the old Roland 909 stuff for example. A lot of people will tell you not to bother with the beginner level stuff but i know of a number of producers who are world class who started out on freeware and even recorded some of their first singles that way. James Holden and High Contrast come to mind off the top of my head. I think it's best to really master some of the basic stuff before moving on to fancy things. Good luck!
posted by the foreground at 8:58 AM on May 21, 2010
posted by the foreground at 8:58 AM on May 21, 2010
What's a good and well-documented Baby's First Tracker?
Renoise would be the thing to check out here. If you are on a mac you may also be interested in having a look at five12 numerology; while not free it is cheap, and if you are going for "old-school-style electronic", arguably a modular step sequencer is more so than a tracker.
For synthesizers there are a lot of free/inexpensive options if you have a host (e.g. either of the above). I would start by looking through the archives of the getting started forum on kvr. But on a mac automat is always a good starting point. (I don't really know what it would be for a pc, sorry.) You could also buy an issue of computer music to get the free (with an issue) synth ZebraCM (cross-platform).
posted by advil at 10:00 AM on May 21, 2010
Renoise would be the thing to check out here. If you are on a mac you may also be interested in having a look at five12 numerology; while not free it is cheap, and if you are going for "old-school-style electronic", arguably a modular step sequencer is more so than a tracker.
For synthesizers there are a lot of free/inexpensive options if you have a host (e.g. either of the above). I would start by looking through the archives of the getting started forum on kvr. But on a mac automat is always a good starting point. (I don't really know what it would be for a pc, sorry.) You could also buy an issue of computer music to get the free (with an issue) synth ZebraCM (cross-platform).
posted by advil at 10:00 AM on May 21, 2010
You absolutely want FL Studio (AKA Fruity Loops mentioned by the foreground). This is ideal for the kind of music you want to make, and is very easy for a beginner to jump into while being powerful enough to not limit you as you get better. You will have something basic but pleasing going within minutes, I promise you.
posted by cincinnatus c at 10:02 AM on May 21, 2010
posted by cincinnatus c at 10:02 AM on May 21, 2010
Best answer: I don't know anything about electronic music, but I can offer some advice on learning rhythm.
When I started playing music, I was both severely arhythmic and "tone-deaf". Over time, I became a passable musician. I'm here to tell you can absolutely learn good rhythm skills. If I can do it, anyone can. You just have to be willing to put in the consistent work and be patient with yourself.
I recommend putting in the effort to learn rhythm even if you plan on just programming electronic music without actually playing an instrument. If you can't feel the rhythm and understand it inside you, you're unlikely to conceptually program anything good.
Here are some exercises to get you started:
To begin with, spend $20 and buy yourself a basic electronic metronome. In short order, you will be cursing that metronome, swearing that either it's broken or that you yourself are completely incapable. This is normal. Relax, have patience, and stick with the exercises. It will get better.
Exercise 1: Set the metronome to play a 4/4 beat at a moderate tempo, maybe about 60-80 bpm. Now, set your foot to tapping once with each click of the metronome. Once your foot is pretty consistent with the metronome, start clapping your hands once with each foot tap/metronome click. You might also want to count out loud "1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4" along with your taps/claps. (The "1" comes on the metronome click which is louder/higher/different from the others when you have it set for 4/4.)
Do this exercise at least 10-15 minutes per day every day until you are pretty consistent with the metronome. Have patience with yourself it it doesn't happen right away. If you find yourself getting completely out of sync with the metronome, it's perfectly okay to drop out, listen to the beat for a little bit, then start over.
Exercise 2: Start out the same as exercise 1, tapping your foot with the metronome. Now start clapping your hands twice for each click of the metronome. You'll clap once when your foot taps the ground and again when your foot is at it's highest point in-between taps. You can count this out loud as "1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and-1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and". You'll say "1", "2", "3", or "4" as your foot hits the ground and say "and" when your foot is at it's highest point in-between taps.
If you find yourself falling apart and losing your place in this exercise, you can always drop back to the first exercise (1 clap per click) until you feel like you're secure in the beat, then try again. If necessary , drop out completely, listen to the beat and start over.
Once again, practice this every day until it starts to feel natural.
Exercise 3: In exercise 1 you were clapping out quarter-notes. In exercise 2 you were clapping out eighth-notes. Now you can start to mix it up. Pick a set rhythm that uses both quarter-notes and eighth-notes. I recommend starting out with "1, 2-and,3, 4-and". This means you will clap your hands once on the first beat, twice on the second beat, once on the third beat, then twice on the fourth beat. Your foot will keep tapping just once per beat.
This might be intimidating, but if you've really mastered exercise 2, it will be easier than you think.
Once again, practice exercises 1, 2 and 3 every day. If you start to feel confident with #3, you can try some different variations, such as "1,2,3-and,4-and".
Exercise 4: Now we're going the other direction. As in the earlier exercises, tap your foot along with the metronome. Now start clapping, but only on beats 1 and 3. That means your hands will clap once while your foot taps and the metronome clicks twice. If you're as arhythmic as you say, this might be a bit tricky at first. Have patience and keep at it. Once you get to confident with this, switch off so now you are clapping only on beats 2 and 4. (This is what you will typically want to do if you clapping along with a rock song.)
Once you're consistent and comfortable with all the above (which may take weeks or months, depending on your work ethic and your degree of arhythmia), you're ready to start learning about 16th notes, triplets, swing eighths, rests, and sycopations, but you'll have a foundation to begin with.
Also, during this time period, I recommend you find some time each day to shut yourself in a room where no one else can see you, crank up some tunes with a strong beat, and rock out. Bang your head, clap your hands, tap your feet, move however you feel the music. Don't worry about whether you're doing it "right" or whether you look goofy. Just move. In the beginning you might look like you're completely off the beat. Don't worry about it. Don't look at yourself. Just move.
This is how small children start out, dancing to the music, even though it may look like they're moving to the beat of some entirely different song. Over time, if you allow it, your body will start finding the rhythm of the music. If you're also doing the metronome exercises every day, it will happen more quickly. At some point your brain will make the connection between the structured metronome exercises and the feeling of moving around to your favorite songs. Don't get frustrated if it doesn't happen right away. Have faith - you will see the results eventually and they will be worthwhile.
Good luck!
posted by tdismukes at 10:15 AM on May 21, 2010 [42 favorites]
When I started playing music, I was both severely arhythmic and "tone-deaf". Over time, I became a passable musician. I'm here to tell you can absolutely learn good rhythm skills. If I can do it, anyone can. You just have to be willing to put in the consistent work and be patient with yourself.
I recommend putting in the effort to learn rhythm even if you plan on just programming electronic music without actually playing an instrument. If you can't feel the rhythm and understand it inside you, you're unlikely to conceptually program anything good.
Here are some exercises to get you started:
To begin with, spend $20 and buy yourself a basic electronic metronome. In short order, you will be cursing that metronome, swearing that either it's broken or that you yourself are completely incapable. This is normal. Relax, have patience, and stick with the exercises. It will get better.
Exercise 1: Set the metronome to play a 4/4 beat at a moderate tempo, maybe about 60-80 bpm. Now, set your foot to tapping once with each click of the metronome. Once your foot is pretty consistent with the metronome, start clapping your hands once with each foot tap/metronome click. You might also want to count out loud "1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4" along with your taps/claps. (The "1" comes on the metronome click which is louder/higher/different from the others when you have it set for 4/4.)
Do this exercise at least 10-15 minutes per day every day until you are pretty consistent with the metronome. Have patience with yourself it it doesn't happen right away. If you find yourself getting completely out of sync with the metronome, it's perfectly okay to drop out, listen to the beat for a little bit, then start over.
Exercise 2: Start out the same as exercise 1, tapping your foot with the metronome. Now start clapping your hands twice for each click of the metronome. You'll clap once when your foot taps the ground and again when your foot is at it's highest point in-between taps. You can count this out loud as "1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and-1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and". You'll say "1", "2", "3", or "4" as your foot hits the ground and say "and" when your foot is at it's highest point in-between taps.
If you find yourself falling apart and losing your place in this exercise, you can always drop back to the first exercise (1 clap per click) until you feel like you're secure in the beat, then try again. If necessary , drop out completely, listen to the beat and start over.
Once again, practice this every day until it starts to feel natural.
Exercise 3: In exercise 1 you were clapping out quarter-notes. In exercise 2 you were clapping out eighth-notes. Now you can start to mix it up. Pick a set rhythm that uses both quarter-notes and eighth-notes. I recommend starting out with "1, 2-and,3, 4-and". This means you will clap your hands once on the first beat, twice on the second beat, once on the third beat, then twice on the fourth beat. Your foot will keep tapping just once per beat.
This might be intimidating, but if you've really mastered exercise 2, it will be easier than you think.
Once again, practice exercises 1, 2 and 3 every day. If you start to feel confident with #3, you can try some different variations, such as "1,2,3-and,4-and".
Exercise 4: Now we're going the other direction. As in the earlier exercises, tap your foot along with the metronome. Now start clapping, but only on beats 1 and 3. That means your hands will clap once while your foot taps and the metronome clicks twice. If you're as arhythmic as you say, this might be a bit tricky at first. Have patience and keep at it. Once you get to confident with this, switch off so now you are clapping only on beats 2 and 4. (This is what you will typically want to do if you clapping along with a rock song.)
Once you're consistent and comfortable with all the above (which may take weeks or months, depending on your work ethic and your degree of arhythmia), you're ready to start learning about 16th notes, triplets, swing eighths, rests, and sycopations, but you'll have a foundation to begin with.
Also, during this time period, I recommend you find some time each day to shut yourself in a room where no one else can see you, crank up some tunes with a strong beat, and rock out. Bang your head, clap your hands, tap your feet, move however you feel the music. Don't worry about whether you're doing it "right" or whether you look goofy. Just move. In the beginning you might look like you're completely off the beat. Don't worry about it. Don't look at yourself. Just move.
This is how small children start out, dancing to the music, even though it may look like they're moving to the beat of some entirely different song. Over time, if you allow it, your body will start finding the rhythm of the music. If you're also doing the metronome exercises every day, it will happen more quickly. At some point your brain will make the connection between the structured metronome exercises and the feeling of moving around to your favorite songs. Don't get frustrated if it doesn't happen right away. Have faith - you will see the results eventually and they will be worthwhile.
Good luck!
posted by tdismukes at 10:15 AM on May 21, 2010 [42 favorites]
Oops - I forgot to mention that the exercises I gave above are progressive. Make sure you're fairly solid on exercise 1 before you go on to exercise 2, and so on. If it takes you days or weeks on one exercise before you're ready to tackle the next one, that's perfectly okay.
posted by tdismukes at 10:19 AM on May 21, 2010
posted by tdismukes at 10:19 AM on May 21, 2010
Honestly in your shoes I would avoid the electronic route. If you little to no musical abilities to begin with, trying to use a soft interface that is designed to emulate a physical interface is hella frustrating and counterproductive.
Hit up Craigslist or the pawn shops for some old school synths/keyboards - any with a few different voices and instruments should do, even a clunker. Don't worry about features (MIDI out, etc), just get something you can put your hands on.
A keyboard is a pretty natural thing to noodle on - kids love 'em even if they have no idea how to play piano per se. It's a lot easier to mess around with than, say, guitar, which requires special technique to be able to make any [coherent] noise at all.
Some keyboards have basic recording and looping built in so you can record little samples that you've come up with. This is a great way to start making music. Noodle around until you come up with a cool melody (you don't have to know what chords are to find ones that sound good on a keyboard). Then experiment with some lead that fits. If the keyboard can't record samples itself you can use free PC software to do it (audacity, etc).
For beats there are plenty of old school cheap drum machines that you can mess with in the same fashion. Again, craigslist, pawn shops, and garage sales are perfect for this.
posted by sprocket87 at 11:14 AM on May 21, 2010
Hit up Craigslist or the pawn shops for some old school synths/keyboards - any with a few different voices and instruments should do, even a clunker. Don't worry about features (MIDI out, etc), just get something you can put your hands on.
A keyboard is a pretty natural thing to noodle on - kids love 'em even if they have no idea how to play piano per se. It's a lot easier to mess around with than, say, guitar, which requires special technique to be able to make any [coherent] noise at all.
Some keyboards have basic recording and looping built in so you can record little samples that you've come up with. This is a great way to start making music. Noodle around until you come up with a cool melody (you don't have to know what chords are to find ones that sound good on a keyboard). Then experiment with some lead that fits. If the keyboard can't record samples itself you can use free PC software to do it (audacity, etc).
For beats there are plenty of old school cheap drum machines that you can mess with in the same fashion. Again, craigslist, pawn shops, and garage sales are perfect for this.
posted by sprocket87 at 11:14 AM on May 21, 2010
Response by poster: Holy crap tdismukes, you are awesome.
Also: I would also look into downloading some free VSTs of old synths and drum machines.
Any relevant names I should look for? I know of the Roland 909, Korg MS-10/20, DMX...
posted by griphus at 11:16 AM on May 21, 2010
Also: I would also look into downloading some free VSTs of old synths and drum machines.
Any relevant names I should look for? I know of the Roland 909, Korg MS-10/20, DMX...
posted by griphus at 11:16 AM on May 21, 2010
Mac+Garageband=Lots o Fun for the musically and rhythmically challenged
posted by Thorzdad at 1:09 PM on May 21, 2010
posted by Thorzdad at 1:09 PM on May 21, 2010
If you can read music, Reading Key Jazz Rhythms is very helpful. It comes with a CD, and is available for a number of instruments.
posted by phliar at 3:48 PM on May 21, 2010
posted by phliar at 3:48 PM on May 21, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by jasondigitized at 8:58 AM on May 21, 2010