Bad bicycle... bad touch...
May 19, 2010 4:31 AM Subscribe
So, I've cycled to work. And I really want to do it again. The problem is, I feel like my saddle and I have been rather too intimate...
It's only five miles to work across the pancake flat fens, and I managed it without actually stopping, but I did keep having to coast a little way. Annoyingly, I wasn't coasting to ease my (knackered) knees or my (famousily fragile) back but because coasting lifted my arse off the saddle.
The other (big) problem is that I'm not a light guy (140kg/310lbs area) and I'm actually quite concerned about damaging my (also ropey) coccyx.
So... I know from previous ask questions that I should be putting more weight on my legs and hands, but if we assume I can't do that, how do I alleviate my pains and fears?
It's only five miles to work across the pancake flat fens, and I managed it without actually stopping, but I did keep having to coast a little way. Annoyingly, I wasn't coasting to ease my (knackered) knees or my (famousily fragile) back but because coasting lifted my arse off the saddle.
The other (big) problem is that I'm not a light guy (140kg/310lbs area) and I'm actually quite concerned about damaging my (also ropey) coccyx.
So... I know from previous ask questions that I should be putting more weight on my legs and hands, but if we assume I can't do that, how do I alleviate my pains and fears?
It takes a while to get used to a saddle. Let the soreness subside for a day or two and ride it to work again. I'll bet that after another ride to work (or two) you'll find it far more comfortable. I'm not sure if it's the saddle or the human anatomy that adapts, but it's never failed to happen for me in 25 years of cycling.
Check that your saddle is level from front to back, by placing a level along its full length. A lot of people seem to adjust the saddle so that the front section looks level, meaning that the back section ends up raised. Although this can give a feeling of added support at the back, it turns out to be pretty uncomfortable after a while.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 4:47 AM on May 19, 2010
Check that your saddle is level from front to back, by placing a level along its full length. A lot of people seem to adjust the saddle so that the front section looks level, meaning that the back section ends up raised. Although this can give a feeling of added support at the back, it turns out to be pretty uncomfortable after a while.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 4:47 AM on May 19, 2010
What kind of saddle do you have?
The first thing I do with a new bike is to replace the saddle. My recommendations for saddles will be useless to you as I'm a woman, but I can tell you that a £25 saddle is many times better than the cheap things that most bikes come with.
Gel pads can help - saddle cover things - but I'd go for those with a new saddle not instead of. Also, proper cycling shorts look silly on those of us with large bums, but they do contain padding for a reason - if it's really bad, get some, and change at work. I have 1 pair of cycling shorts that I wear if I'm going to be riding for, like, a day. But when I started out I wore them much more frequently as they do help.
Also, if you've only done it once, you should be aware that it'll get much easier with practice. But change the saddle first if you've got a cheap one.
posted by handee at 4:48 AM on May 19, 2010
The first thing I do with a new bike is to replace the saddle. My recommendations for saddles will be useless to you as I'm a woman, but I can tell you that a £25 saddle is many times better than the cheap things that most bikes come with.
Gel pads can help - saddle cover things - but I'd go for those with a new saddle not instead of. Also, proper cycling shorts look silly on those of us with large bums, but they do contain padding for a reason - if it's really bad, get some, and change at work. I have 1 pair of cycling shorts that I wear if I'm going to be riding for, like, a day. But when I started out I wore them much more frequently as they do help.
Also, if you've only done it once, you should be aware that it'll get much easier with practice. But change the saddle first if you've got a cheap one.
posted by handee at 4:48 AM on May 19, 2010
I'm not going to tell you to ignore it because you may have a legitimate concern and your bike may not be properly adjusted. I will tell you that I get similar soreness at the beginning of every riding season as my body adjusts to riding for extended periods of time. It takes a week or so for me to get past the tenderness.
posted by Fezboy! at 4:58 AM on May 19, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Fezboy! at 4:58 AM on May 19, 2010 [3 favorites]
Fezboy is right - when you're in good cycling shape you actually put a lot of your weight on your legs and spend less time resting on the saddle, so you don't get nearly as sore. Look into getting a new saddle, bike shorts (you can wear normal trousers over the bike shorts), adjusting the bike, but also just keep riding and it will probably get a lot better without you having to do anything.
posted by mskyle at 5:31 AM on May 19, 2010
posted by mskyle at 5:31 AM on May 19, 2010
My bike is absurdly expensive. Part of the reason is the saddle, a Selle An-Atomica... but my bike is also absurdly comfortable.
I rode the saddle for two years. I then bought a new bike which I had shipped to a friend's house. I picked up that bike, adjusted it, and rode it to my place 20 minutes away and my ass was killing me--this was after about 1400 comfortable miles on my other bike. Now when I travel and expect to be riding a bike, I bring my saddle with me.
And people are right about adjustements--the Selle An-Atomica comes with a four page manual.
posted by dobbs at 5:47 AM on May 19, 2010
I rode the saddle for two years. I then bought a new bike which I had shipped to a friend's house. I picked up that bike, adjusted it, and rode it to my place 20 minutes away and my ass was killing me--this was after about 1400 comfortable miles on my other bike. Now when I travel and expect to be riding a bike, I bring my saddle with me.
And people are right about adjustements--the Selle An-Atomica comes with a four page manual.
posted by dobbs at 5:47 AM on May 19, 2010
Until you get used to it you might try some bike shorts. They make baggy ones that have the butt-pad (chamois) if you're not up for lycra.
Also, check out Sheldon Brown on saddles to make sure you've got the right one for your body.
posted by ghharr at 5:54 AM on May 19, 2010
Also, check out Sheldon Brown on saddles to make sure you've got the right one for your body.
posted by ghharr at 5:54 AM on May 19, 2010
Gel padding is fine for short rides, but any sort of padding works against you on longer rides because the padding fills up any gaps and puts more pressure on soft tissue. A firm saddle that matches the width of your ischial tuberosities, or "sit bones," is the most comfortable, but it still has to adjusted properly and you will need a few rides to get used to it. Sheldon Brown has a lot of helpful information. He was a big fan of leather saddles, like the Brooks, which after a lot of riding should mould itself to a custom fit.
Mountain bike shorts have a built-in padded inside brief, and are built with no annoying seams in unfortunate places. If you're getting chaffed, Sitz baths are a relief (sit in a tub of hot water for ten minutes a few times each day) Your bike shop should have pre-ride balms that help prevent it.
By the way, Here's the forum for heavier folks on bikeforums.net, for more info and discussion.
posted by hydrophonic at 5:55 AM on May 19, 2010
Mountain bike shorts have a built-in padded inside brief, and are built with no annoying seams in unfortunate places. If you're getting chaffed, Sitz baths are a relief (sit in a tub of hot water for ten minutes a few times each day) Your bike shop should have pre-ride balms that help prevent it.
By the way, Here's the forum for heavier folks on bikeforums.net, for more info and discussion.
posted by hydrophonic at 5:55 AM on May 19, 2010
One word. Recumbent.
posted by gijsvs at 6:07 AM on May 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by gijsvs at 6:07 AM on May 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: gijsvs : Oh so bloody tempting (because of my back problems) but I've yet to see a recumbant for sale that didn't make my wallet wince.
Thanks guys - I am listening, I'm just trying to keep out the way rather than lead the conversation. :)
posted by twine42 at 6:15 AM on May 19, 2010
Thanks guys - I am listening, I'm just trying to keep out the way rather than lead the conversation. :)
posted by twine42 at 6:15 AM on May 19, 2010
Get a bike fit - without a doubt this can make a difference. The other thing to look for is a bike shop that "rents" bike seats. I have a local one that has about nine in the shop, which I think for 60 bucks during a two week period you can check out any of the nine to see which accommodates you.
I don't there is a single bullet but a combination of clothing, the right fit and a good seat will get you there. _Some_ getting 'used to it' is part of the equation but certainly not to the point of suffering.
posted by fluffycreature at 6:22 AM on May 19, 2010
I don't there is a single bullet but a combination of clothing, the right fit and a good seat will get you there. _Some_ getting 'used to it' is part of the equation but certainly not to the point of suffering.
posted by fluffycreature at 6:22 AM on May 19, 2010
Get the best fit you can but realize that overcoming saddle soreness is just part of riding.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:32 AM on May 19, 2010
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:32 AM on May 19, 2010
Check out Brooks' saddles. You might want to consider some of their heavier duty saddles. Probably the best people to talk to are here: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/saddles.html.
A 130lb cyclist riding hard will carry almost all their weight on their legs. That ain't you. You're going to want the bars a bit higher and the saddle a bit wider than a 130 lb cyclist. Something like the Brooks B33 might be good. There's no way you're going to carry 300lbs on your hands and legs for miles and miles on end without doing some damage to your arms, back, neck and knees.
posted by pjaust at 6:40 AM on May 19, 2010
A 130lb cyclist riding hard will carry almost all their weight on their legs. That ain't you. You're going to want the bars a bit higher and the saddle a bit wider than a 130 lb cyclist. Something like the Brooks B33 might be good. There's no way you're going to carry 300lbs on your hands and legs for miles and miles on end without doing some damage to your arms, back, neck and knees.
posted by pjaust at 6:40 AM on May 19, 2010
I'm 320, and bike to work daily (6 miles roundtrip).
I've had great success with the sprung Brooks saddles, (I've got the B33.) Wide enough where my weight is spread out, rather than focused on the coccyx or the "taint", firm so I'm not sinking into foam or gel and chafing, and cushy enough where I don't take a beating on the bumps, and the break-in period is easy.
A cheaper option is a Bell "Cruising Magic" saddle - minimal padding, and a spring suspension. Seems plenty tough enough.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:35 AM on May 19, 2010
I've had great success with the sprung Brooks saddles, (I've got the B33.) Wide enough where my weight is spread out, rather than focused on the coccyx or the "taint", firm so I'm not sinking into foam or gel and chafing, and cushy enough where I don't take a beating on the bumps, and the break-in period is easy.
A cheaper option is a Bell "Cruising Magic" saddle - minimal padding, and a spring suspension. Seems plenty tough enough.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:35 AM on May 19, 2010
Agreed with the posters above.
- Proper bike fit is huge. I had IT band problems and lower back soreness from riding that disappeared entirely once I started riding a bike that actually fit properly, and the usual ass pain from the saddle decreased as well. I got lucky using Zinn's fit calculator (which seems to have disappeared from the intertubes) and trial-and-error; it would absolutely been worth having it done professionally, now that I know what a difference it makes. A basic fitting would be enough - ask around at local bike shops.
- Brooks saddles!. What you generally see in bike shops are soft gel saddles (the hard parts of your rear compress parts of the saddle, leaving the rest to push up into the soft parts...horrible for a long ride) or super-tiny racing saddles (for those 130lb racers who aren't ever on the saddle anyway). Brooks saddles have exploded in popularity recently because they target a market segment that most of the cycling industry ignored: non-racing cyclists who are nonetheless doing actual mileage.
Despite rumors, my Brooks saddle needed no break-in. I used it on a 50-mile test ride, then started a 1200-mile tour. My butt was the only part of me that -didn't- hurt at some point along the way.
My own saddle is unsprung, but if you're on a hybrid or mountain bike where your posture is more upright, springs might be the way to go.
posted by a young man in spats at 7:59 AM on May 19, 2010
- Proper bike fit is huge. I had IT band problems and lower back soreness from riding that disappeared entirely once I started riding a bike that actually fit properly, and the usual ass pain from the saddle decreased as well. I got lucky using Zinn's fit calculator (which seems to have disappeared from the intertubes) and trial-and-error; it would absolutely been worth having it done professionally, now that I know what a difference it makes. A basic fitting would be enough - ask around at local bike shops.
- Brooks saddles!. What you generally see in bike shops are soft gel saddles (the hard parts of your rear compress parts of the saddle, leaving the rest to push up into the soft parts...horrible for a long ride) or super-tiny racing saddles (for those 130lb racers who aren't ever on the saddle anyway). Brooks saddles have exploded in popularity recently because they target a market segment that most of the cycling industry ignored: non-racing cyclists who are nonetheless doing actual mileage.
Despite rumors, my Brooks saddle needed no break-in. I used it on a 50-mile test ride, then started a 1200-mile tour. My butt was the only part of me that -didn't- hurt at some point along the way.
My own saddle is unsprung, but if you're on a hybrid or mountain bike where your posture is more upright, springs might be the way to go.
posted by a young man in spats at 7:59 AM on May 19, 2010
I'm half your weight, so don't know just how helpful this will be, but...
I'll nth what others have said about the first ride after an extended break leaving one with a sore arse. So the first ride (ever?) I'd imagine would be even more painful.
I ride a bike to get around town everyday, usually not very far nor particularly quickly, and just in casual clothes. Don't even suffer a hint of saddle-induced soreness. But if I've been away for a few months the first ride or two leaves me quite sore. I know it will pass, so I don't think much about it, but I'd imagine I'd be quite concerned if I was new to cycling, to the point that I'd consider not riding at all.
So... make sure your bike is set up properly. And if you're really in lots of pain then of course you really should seek professional advice to make sure that you're not doing any long-term damage. But if it's just a bit sore then I'd suggest trying to put in a few shorter rides to help get your backside used to a bike saddle. You may find it will only take half a dozen rides and you won't think about it again.
And it can certainly be worth persevering. I have a friend who's a similar weight who bought a bike three months ago having not ridden in close to ten years - and never seriously before that anyway - who now commutes about ten kilometres a day and is really enjoying it. He's losing quite a lot of weight as well, so if that's part of the motivation, there's extra incentive to stick with it.
And if it's not just enjoy the fresh air!
posted by puffmoike at 8:05 AM on May 19, 2010
I'll nth what others have said about the first ride after an extended break leaving one with a sore arse. So the first ride (ever?) I'd imagine would be even more painful.
I ride a bike to get around town everyday, usually not very far nor particularly quickly, and just in casual clothes. Don't even suffer a hint of saddle-induced soreness. But if I've been away for a few months the first ride or two leaves me quite sore. I know it will pass, so I don't think much about it, but I'd imagine I'd be quite concerned if I was new to cycling, to the point that I'd consider not riding at all.
So... make sure your bike is set up properly. And if you're really in lots of pain then of course you really should seek professional advice to make sure that you're not doing any long-term damage. But if it's just a bit sore then I'd suggest trying to put in a few shorter rides to help get your backside used to a bike saddle. You may find it will only take half a dozen rides and you won't think about it again.
And it can certainly be worth persevering. I have a friend who's a similar weight who bought a bike three months ago having not ridden in close to ten years - and never seriously before that anyway - who now commutes about ten kilometres a day and is really enjoying it. He's losing quite a lot of weight as well, so if that's part of the motivation, there's extra incentive to stick with it.
And if it's not just enjoy the fresh air!
posted by puffmoike at 8:05 AM on May 19, 2010
A quick follow up on general bike fit.
When I bought my previous bike about ten years ago I bought one that was very similarly sized to the one it replaced one. And I carefully adjusted the handlebars and seat position so that they mirrored my old setup as best I could.
However the new bike came with (racing / drop) handlebars which were two centimetres wider than the previous bike's. Having put up with low-level general back and shoulder pain from age 18-27 it magically disappeared almost immediately with the new bike. And I can only attribute it to the wider bars. So happy was I with them that when I bought my current bike I removed the (wider yet) bars that came with it and put on my old bars before I'd even ridden it.
So get somebody from a good bike shop to take a look at your bike and your setup. A seemingly small adjustment might make all the difference.
Alternatively just HTFU - everybody gets a sore arse at the start!
posted by puffmoike at 8:14 AM on May 19, 2010
When I bought my previous bike about ten years ago I bought one that was very similarly sized to the one it replaced one. And I carefully adjusted the handlebars and seat position so that they mirrored my old setup as best I could.
However the new bike came with (racing / drop) handlebars which were two centimetres wider than the previous bike's. Having put up with low-level general back and shoulder pain from age 18-27 it magically disappeared almost immediately with the new bike. And I can only attribute it to the wider bars. So happy was I with them that when I bought my current bike I removed the (wider yet) bars that came with it and put on my old bars before I'd even ridden it.
So get somebody from a good bike shop to take a look at your bike and your setup. A seemingly small adjustment might make all the difference.
Alternatively just HTFU - everybody gets a sore arse at the start!
posted by puffmoike at 8:14 AM on May 19, 2010
Nthing Brooks saddles and a pro-fit. There often is some discomfort if you haven't ridden much recently as your body adapts to cycling, but I've found that I can make almost all that pain go away if I use my Brooks B17 in honey colored leather. The honey one seems to be softer leather than the traditional black, and mine needed very little break in.
I just picked up a new bike last week and went for a 12 mile ride on a new (non-brooks) saddle, and it was killing me by the end of the ride. I swapped it out for my trusty brooks, and most of the pain has gone away. The little pain that is left is just my body readapting to riding again after a long break.
Ideally you want the saddle to be wide enough to support your pelvic bones, but not so wide as to cause chafing on the backs of your thighs. I think Sheldon Brown, or Rivendell Bikes go into this on their websites.
Things I've learned the hard way about Brooks though: Don't over-condition the leather, only do it sparingly when it seems dry, don't use the adjustment screw at the front, and don't ride it when it's wet. Good luck!
posted by gofargogo at 8:17 AM on May 19, 2010
I just picked up a new bike last week and went for a 12 mile ride on a new (non-brooks) saddle, and it was killing me by the end of the ride. I swapped it out for my trusty brooks, and most of the pain has gone away. The little pain that is left is just my body readapting to riding again after a long break.
Ideally you want the saddle to be wide enough to support your pelvic bones, but not so wide as to cause chafing on the backs of your thighs. I think Sheldon Brown, or Rivendell Bikes go into this on their websites.
Things I've learned the hard way about Brooks though: Don't over-condition the leather, only do it sparingly when it seems dry, don't use the adjustment screw at the front, and don't ride it when it's wet. Good luck!
posted by gofargogo at 8:17 AM on May 19, 2010
I have 20 years+ of bike fit experience with folks like you, here is my take on saddles...
A common misconception with saddles is that wider is better. This is completely false. The width of the saddle should be determined by the with of your sitz bones (or ischial tuberosities). You only need a wide saddle if this part of your skeleton is wider than an average person, regardless of your weight. A wide saddle is often, in fact, counter productive. The width interferes with the range of motion required by the leg as it pedals, with the thighs below the buttocks bumping into the saddle with each pedal stroke.
What I commonly set riders up with is a longer saddle (from tail to nose), with proper pelvic width as described above. This allows the rider to shift weight for and aft during a ride, transferring weight to different areas of the crotch as hot spots and sore areas develop. This is very much like having multiple positions on your handlebars to choose from.
I have ridden some saddles that have a sweet spot...one position that feels GREAT!, but your butt will appreciate variety more than padding.
My personal favorite which is on all my bikes is the Titec Del Norte.
posted by No Shmoobles at 10:07 AM on May 19, 2010
A common misconception with saddles is that wider is better. This is completely false. The width of the saddle should be determined by the with of your sitz bones (or ischial tuberosities). You only need a wide saddle if this part of your skeleton is wider than an average person, regardless of your weight. A wide saddle is often, in fact, counter productive. The width interferes with the range of motion required by the leg as it pedals, with the thighs below the buttocks bumping into the saddle with each pedal stroke.
What I commonly set riders up with is a longer saddle (from tail to nose), with proper pelvic width as described above. This allows the rider to shift weight for and aft during a ride, transferring weight to different areas of the crotch as hot spots and sore areas develop. This is very much like having multiple positions on your handlebars to choose from.
I have ridden some saddles that have a sweet spot...one position that feels GREAT!, but your butt will appreciate variety more than padding.
My personal favorite which is on all my bikes is the Titec Del Norte.
posted by No Shmoobles at 10:07 AM on May 19, 2010
Another Brooks fan here. I have different models on all my bikes, but all have needed breaking in: short term discomfort in exchange for long term comfort. Clearly, others' experiences vary.
Loads of good advice above. My contribution would be to suggest you look very closely at the angle of the saddle, whatever make you are using. You're highly unlikely to be comfortable if the nose is angled up at all. Absolutely level may work, but you might even want the nose slightly down. Experiment one notch at a time: a little adjustment goes a long way.
posted by genesta at 1:31 PM on May 19, 2010
Loads of good advice above. My contribution would be to suggest you look very closely at the angle of the saddle, whatever make you are using. You're highly unlikely to be comfortable if the nose is angled up at all. Absolutely level may work, but you might even want the nose slightly down. Experiment one notch at a time: a little adjustment goes a long way.
posted by genesta at 1:31 PM on May 19, 2010
On the fitting part, genesta is exactly right. Tiny changes can have big impacts. 1/4" change in seat position or stem length has totally transformed my riding comfort on certain frames, hence the advice to spend the money and have a good pro fit you.
posted by gofargogo at 1:57 PM on May 19, 2010
posted by gofargogo at 1:57 PM on May 19, 2010
Response by poster: Boys and girls, I want to thank you.
I got a longer saddle stem and lifted my seat by about three inches. I can't stop without shifting out of the saddle (or leaning sideways slightly) but my knees now straighten to about 160 or 170 degrees.
Today I cycled the 5 miles in to work in just under half an hour, with coasting but no stops. I even managed to make it over the A14 bridge that has always been an embarassment to this pathetic fenland cycler[1].
Of course, the pulled muscle in my back has decided that today is the day to party, but I think I can live with that right now. :)
[1] "fenland cycler" really sounds like it ought to be a euphemism for something. [2]
[2] What happened to 'humourous' footnotes in conversations? Or was that just a usenet thing...?
posted by twine42 at 1:33 AM on June 15, 2010
I got a longer saddle stem and lifted my seat by about three inches. I can't stop without shifting out of the saddle (or leaning sideways slightly) but my knees now straighten to about 160 or 170 degrees.
Today I cycled the 5 miles in to work in just under half an hour, with coasting but no stops. I even managed to make it over the A14 bridge that has always been an embarassment to this pathetic fenland cycler[1].
Of course, the pulled muscle in my back has decided that today is the day to party, but I think I can live with that right now. :)
[1] "fenland cycler" really sounds like it ought to be a euphemism for something. [2]
[2] What happened to 'humourous' footnotes in conversations? Or was that just a usenet thing...?
posted by twine42 at 1:33 AM on June 15, 2010
Response by poster: Oh, and if I can get myself cycling three times a week, I think I'll be looking at those Brooks saddles.
posted by twine42 at 1:35 AM on June 15, 2010
posted by twine42 at 1:35 AM on June 15, 2010
Great to hear that you've reaped the benefits of a bit of friendly MeFi advice. Enjoy the ride!
posted by puffmoike at 5:04 AM on September 4, 2010
posted by puffmoike at 5:04 AM on September 4, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by PercussivePaul at 4:43 AM on May 19, 2010