What would Brian Boitano do?
May 18, 2010 7:31 AM Subscribe
This is a question about data recovery following a partition and reinstall, and about customer service. Your input is welcome.
Here's the story. I have a teeny tiny IT business. I've got one client for whom I have done a lot of work, mostly it's been cleaning up the mess left by his former IT guy.
I got a call last week that his office computer wouldn't boot up. I tell him I'll come pick it up. When I get there, I tell him that we're probably looking at a reformat and reinstall, if for no other reason than the importance of having this system online quickly. It's important that I have never touched this computer in a working state, I've never seen what he uses or how. His program files folder had like 150 things in it, most unused.
This is an Athlon 3000+, on an Nvidia/Foxconn motherboard...running...Windows 2000. The former IT guy built the system and installed 2000 because this client wasn't interested in learning windows XP. This computer was built in late 2006.
I explain to him that I can't install 2000, but that I will do XP. He says that's fine.
So I take it home and start to work on it, and it's thrashed. So I decide to recommend the reinstall. So I call him, early morning Sunday. Before 8:30. The purpose of my call was to find out what he needed backed up before I formatted anything. So I don't get a call back till 7pm. (I had told him originally I'd have the computer back Monday.) Anyway, I ask EXPLICITLY about what to back up, I ask him what programs he uses, etc. I explain, in detail, that all programs will GO AWAY, everything will be deleted. I asked him specifically to name any programs he uses regularly.
I ask him specifically if there's anything at all anywhere on the computer other than his documents that he needs saved. He says no. I specifically ask him how he gets his email (my email for him is a gmail addy), whether he uses something like Outlook or Outlook Express, or whether he gets his email in his browser. He says "I get it in my browser."
So I back up his documents (39 Gb worth), reformat, and reinstall XP. The computer is smokin' fast. Then I realize that I forgot to backup his bookmarks. Stupid error. I compensate this in my price.
I deliver it to his office, and he's mad. He wanted 2000. I explain that, number 1, I don't HAVE 2000, I had TOLD him I didn't have 2000, and besides, running 2000 on this thing is like putting training wheels on a drag bike. So he's ok with it, and we move along.
Then he asks me "where are my fonts?"
He had apparently paid several hundred dollars for fancy fonts for his business. Obviously gone. Turns out he has them on other computers in the office, so no big deal.
He hates office 2007, is really pissed that he doesn't have his bookmarks, etc. (about a month ago I introduced him to Xmarks for all his computers, he never got around to installing it. Still, the bookmarks are my fault, and I accept that.)
So finally after almost 2 hours in his office, I come home, a little irritated but everything is over.
And then he calls me FREAKED OUT. "Where is my thunderbird?"
"Your what?"
"My thunderbird. My email. Where is it, I don't see it? Where are all my emails?"
...
"It's gone. They're gone. I asked you specifically how you get your email, and you told me in your browser. You use Gmail, right?"
"That's my personal account. I have Xxxx@xxxxxxxx.xxx for my business."
So anyway, all his emails since 2006 have never been backed up, never saved, never anything. He's set to testify in Washington next month, and all the correspondence about his hearing was in his emails. I didn't know this, had no way of knowing this.
So I offer to take the drive back and see if I can recover the files. So I tried....I booted into my Ubuntu persistent Flash drive, I ran testdisk, I ran photorec, and neither of them can see anything. All I did was a quick format, but the drive is only 35Gb, so it's definitely been written over.
SO then, what's my question? Here they are:
1. Recommendations for recovering this data. (I'm not even sure how possible it is to recover Thunderbird emails w/o a working copy of the program, but I can google that.)
2. What should I do for this guy? I really feel like I did due dilligence in figuring out what to back up, but maybe not. I can't afford to pay to have the drive forensically recovered, seriously I do like 1 system a week. Should I waive my fee? Seriously his total bill at this point is like $72 including tax...including pick up and dropoff, etc.
3. If you do this stuff, do you image the entire OS drive when you back up? Is there a better practice? This is like the 50th one of these I've done, and I've never, ever, ever had an issue.
Here's the story. I have a teeny tiny IT business. I've got one client for whom I have done a lot of work, mostly it's been cleaning up the mess left by his former IT guy.
I got a call last week that his office computer wouldn't boot up. I tell him I'll come pick it up. When I get there, I tell him that we're probably looking at a reformat and reinstall, if for no other reason than the importance of having this system online quickly. It's important that I have never touched this computer in a working state, I've never seen what he uses or how. His program files folder had like 150 things in it, most unused.
This is an Athlon 3000+, on an Nvidia/Foxconn motherboard...running...Windows 2000. The former IT guy built the system and installed 2000 because this client wasn't interested in learning windows XP. This computer was built in late 2006.
I explain to him that I can't install 2000, but that I will do XP. He says that's fine.
So I take it home and start to work on it, and it's thrashed. So I decide to recommend the reinstall. So I call him, early morning Sunday. Before 8:30. The purpose of my call was to find out what he needed backed up before I formatted anything. So I don't get a call back till 7pm. (I had told him originally I'd have the computer back Monday.) Anyway, I ask EXPLICITLY about what to back up, I ask him what programs he uses, etc. I explain, in detail, that all programs will GO AWAY, everything will be deleted. I asked him specifically to name any programs he uses regularly.
I ask him specifically if there's anything at all anywhere on the computer other than his documents that he needs saved. He says no. I specifically ask him how he gets his email (my email for him is a gmail addy), whether he uses something like Outlook or Outlook Express, or whether he gets his email in his browser. He says "I get it in my browser."
So I back up his documents (39 Gb worth), reformat, and reinstall XP. The computer is smokin' fast. Then I realize that I forgot to backup his bookmarks. Stupid error. I compensate this in my price.
I deliver it to his office, and he's mad. He wanted 2000. I explain that, number 1, I don't HAVE 2000, I had TOLD him I didn't have 2000, and besides, running 2000 on this thing is like putting training wheels on a drag bike. So he's ok with it, and we move along.
Then he asks me "where are my fonts?"
He had apparently paid several hundred dollars for fancy fonts for his business. Obviously gone. Turns out he has them on other computers in the office, so no big deal.
He hates office 2007, is really pissed that he doesn't have his bookmarks, etc. (about a month ago I introduced him to Xmarks for all his computers, he never got around to installing it. Still, the bookmarks are my fault, and I accept that.)
So finally after almost 2 hours in his office, I come home, a little irritated but everything is over.
And then he calls me FREAKED OUT. "Where is my thunderbird?"
"Your what?"
"My thunderbird. My email. Where is it, I don't see it? Where are all my emails?"
...
"It's gone. They're gone. I asked you specifically how you get your email, and you told me in your browser. You use Gmail, right?"
"That's my personal account. I have Xxxx@xxxxxxxx.xxx for my business."
So anyway, all his emails since 2006 have never been backed up, never saved, never anything. He's set to testify in Washington next month, and all the correspondence about his hearing was in his emails. I didn't know this, had no way of knowing this.
So I offer to take the drive back and see if I can recover the files. So I tried....I booted into my Ubuntu persistent Flash drive, I ran testdisk, I ran photorec, and neither of them can see anything. All I did was a quick format, but the drive is only 35Gb, so it's definitely been written over.
SO then, what's my question? Here they are:
1. Recommendations for recovering this data. (I'm not even sure how possible it is to recover Thunderbird emails w/o a working copy of the program, but I can google that.)
2. What should I do for this guy? I really feel like I did due dilligence in figuring out what to back up, but maybe not. I can't afford to pay to have the drive forensically recovered, seriously I do like 1 system a week. Should I waive my fee? Seriously his total bill at this point is like $72 including tax...including pick up and dropoff, etc.
3. If you do this stuff, do you image the entire OS drive when you back up? Is there a better practice? This is like the 50th one of these I've done, and I've never, ever, ever had an issue.
How was he getting his business emails? Could at least some of the recent ones be sat on a server somewhere or was he using POP *shudders*
posted by fatfrank at 7:55 AM on May 18, 2010
posted by fatfrank at 7:55 AM on May 18, 2010
Best answer: Did you put any of these questions about data loss in writing and get written approval? I'm guessing not but for next time.... In hindsight, mirroring the drive is a good move and a feature you can use to sell to new clients.
Client is obviously P'd off but the lack of backup will weaken any assertion about the importance of his data.
Sorry to be hardline but customer service can only go so far, if the customer doesn't think it through that's his problem. If you did what you say you did then you did all you could, remind him of this. Recommend he use a data recovery service.
Submit your invoice but don't expect it to get paid, use this as a reason not to deal with this person again (because, to be honest you probably won't).
posted by epo at 7:55 AM on May 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
Client is obviously P'd off but the lack of backup will weaken any assertion about the importance of his data.
Sorry to be hardline but customer service can only go so far, if the customer doesn't think it through that's his problem. If you did what you say you did then you did all you could, remind him of this. Recommend he use a data recovery service.
Submit your invoice but don't expect it to get paid, use this as a reason not to deal with this person again (because, to be honest you probably won't).
posted by epo at 7:55 AM on May 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I generally clone their drive via Acronis True Image just in case. If the drive is in good condition it takes 10-30 minutes and has proven incredibly valuable a couple of times (I also keep that drive for a month or two). I also tell THEM to back up, express to them that it is their responsibility to back up, and that all their data could be forfeit. My old company charges $50 for backing up, on top of the other fees. I tell them that I will TRY to get all their files but since I'm not intimately involved with how they work, it's not guaranteed. I feel that they need to have a backup regimen, which I am more than happy to implement with them before they have issues, but when it's crunch time and they haven't taken due actions to mitigate the damage, it's their fault. EVERYONE KNOWS BACKUPS ARE VITAL. If they don't, it's your job to express the importance on them. That should have been one of the first things discussed/done when you picked up this client. It's also good to try to get responses to these requests in email, because over the phone is he said/you said.
Something else I like to do is run CCleaner (to remove temp files, cache) and move the whole user folder instead of just the My Documents. That would have gotten the Thunderbird emails and Favorites by default. Without CCleaner it can take a lot longer (both taking off and putting back on).
As for the rest, I would try R-Studio to get at the files but if PhotoRec can't see anything it might be hopeless. Forensics should be taken up by him, not you. This is not your fault, although he will try to tell you it is. I would suggest trying to find the emails on his email server, if nothing else (though his old IT probably made it to where it's erasing from the server).
This is the worst part of the business, and the reason why I don't strike out on my own. It's difficult to get laypeople to understand what is going to happen with a reinstall, and they are always confused if not ornery.
On preview: what they said. ^^^
posted by dozo at 7:56 AM on May 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
Something else I like to do is run CCleaner (to remove temp files, cache) and move the whole user folder instead of just the My Documents. That would have gotten the Thunderbird emails and Favorites by default. Without CCleaner it can take a lot longer (both taking off and putting back on).
As for the rest, I would try R-Studio to get at the files but if PhotoRec can't see anything it might be hopeless. Forensics should be taken up by him, not you. This is not your fault, although he will try to tell you it is. I would suggest trying to find the emails on his email server, if nothing else (though his old IT probably made it to where it's erasing from the server).
This is the worst part of the business, and the reason why I don't strike out on my own. It's difficult to get laypeople to understand what is going to happen with a reinstall, and they are always confused if not ornery.
On preview: what they said. ^^^
posted by dozo at 7:56 AM on May 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: I suggested there might be emails on the server, he said right off "No, no emails on the server!", but he might not have known what he was talking about. I have access to his godaddy backend, I will check into that. (Godaddy wasn't my doing, btw.)
Yes, he accesses business mail via POP, no I didn't set it up nor did I know it existed.
Nothing in writing. It's been sort of "on my list", but the fact that he's a return client got me sloppy.
And, yes, I think he thinks this is more important than it really is.
posted by TomMelee at 7:59 AM on May 18, 2010
Yes, he accesses business mail via POP, no I didn't set it up nor did I know it existed.
Nothing in writing. It's been sort of "on my list", but the fact that he's a return client got me sloppy.
And, yes, I think he thinks this is more important than it really is.
posted by TomMelee at 7:59 AM on May 18, 2010
Response by poster: For the record, also, I have been trying to get him using at least dropbox (but more ideally jungle disk/s3) for a couple months. Work I could have done while the computer was operational.
posted by TomMelee at 8:00 AM on May 18, 2010
posted by TomMelee at 8:00 AM on May 18, 2010
Best answer: Honest opinion here, apologies for being harsh.
You know this guy's an IT idiot. You could probably guess that he'd not know enough to give you a list of what he really needed backed-up. Certainly not off the top of his head, verbally, over the phone.
Your job, as his IT guy, is to compensate for his ignorance/stupidity about IT. If he were competent at IT, he wouldn't need you. You failed to do that, because that would have meant saving everything.
He made mistakes, you made mistakes. Your mistake was not backing up everything, before formatting. His (and possibly yours, if you're his regular it guy) was not having regular backups in general.
Another mistake: you approached this situation from a position of ignorance: It's important that I have never touched this computer in a working state, I've never seen what he uses or how. That's more understandable; this client doesn't pay enough for you to be able to understand his business process.
But the killer mistake, which in turn led to further mistakes, was not having a checklist/requirement/contract that both of you could have used: you forgot his bookmarks, because you didn't have a checklist; he forgot his email, because you didn't present a checklist with the line item, "email is a) stored remotely b) must be backed-up, c) both d) other, specify".
You've done 50 previous backups, and you've been lucky. Now it's lesson learned time. At best, you've lost a client; at worst, you need a lawyer.
I'm not trying to be harsh, but as the IT guy, you have to acknowledge that you took a bad situation (unbootable machine, no backups) and made it a terrible situation (four years of business data lost). And you need to apply that understanding to your future work as an IT guy.
posted by orthogonality at 8:01 AM on May 18, 2010 [3 favorites]
You know this guy's an IT idiot. You could probably guess that he'd not know enough to give you a list of what he really needed backed-up. Certainly not off the top of his head, verbally, over the phone.
Your job, as his IT guy, is to compensate for his ignorance/stupidity about IT. If he were competent at IT, he wouldn't need you. You failed to do that, because that would have meant saving everything.
He made mistakes, you made mistakes. Your mistake was not backing up everything, before formatting. His (and possibly yours, if you're his regular it guy) was not having regular backups in general.
Another mistake: you approached this situation from a position of ignorance: It's important that I have never touched this computer in a working state, I've never seen what he uses or how. That's more understandable; this client doesn't pay enough for you to be able to understand his business process.
But the killer mistake, which in turn led to further mistakes, was not having a checklist/requirement/contract that both of you could have used: you forgot his bookmarks, because you didn't have a checklist; he forgot his email, because you didn't present a checklist with the line item, "email is a) stored remotely b) must be backed-up, c) both d) other, specify".
You've done 50 previous backups, and you've been lucky. Now it's lesson learned time. At best, you've lost a client; at worst, you need a lawyer.
I'm not trying to be harsh, but as the IT guy, you have to acknowledge that you took a bad situation (unbootable machine, no backups) and made it a terrible situation (four years of business data lost). And you need to apply that understanding to your future work as an IT guy.
posted by orthogonality at 8:01 AM on May 18, 2010 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Oh..and I generally DO move the entire user folder. I'm honestly not sure why I didn't do it this time. Maybe because 2000 uses a different structure and I didn't think about it? Realistically I was just in a hurry. I told him "by monday" and he cares about nothing if not timeliness.
Thanks for the inputs, I'll shut up for a while now.
posted by TomMelee at 8:03 AM on May 18, 2010
Thanks for the inputs, I'll shut up for a while now.
posted by TomMelee at 8:03 AM on May 18, 2010
Best answer: I use Acronis to image every system I do the work on, I save it for 30 days. I also make sure the system can boot the restore media.
For data recovery, check out Gillware. I saw it recommended here and just used it to recover a RAID 5 array from a stand-alone nas with damage to two of the disks. They were awesome (you can even send an external drive to them for the recovered data, or buy one of theirs/get it on cd/dvd). The contact you during every step (the called to say they got the drives before UPS had even sent the rx confirmation). Their pricing isn't cheap, but no data recovery is going to be, I feel it's very reasonable.
posted by syntheticfaith at 8:32 AM on May 18, 2010
For data recovery, check out Gillware. I saw it recommended here and just used it to recover a RAID 5 array from a stand-alone nas with damage to two of the disks. They were awesome (you can even send an external drive to them for the recovered data, or buy one of theirs/get it on cd/dvd). The contact you during every step (the called to say they got the drives before UPS had even sent the rx confirmation). Their pricing isn't cheap, but no data recovery is going to be, I feel it's very reasonable.
posted by syntheticfaith at 8:32 AM on May 18, 2010
With drives being so incredibly cheap these days, in the future, it might just make sense to start over with a completely fresh drive, then restore of the hosed one (or better, an image / dd of the hosed one).
posted by gregglind at 9:41 AM on May 18, 2010
posted by gregglind at 9:41 AM on May 18, 2010
Just want to Nth that you've got to make an image before a reformat. Also want to add that I think you're rates are too low for working on production machines (the $80 special is probably okay for a home machine). IT is expensive because you need to take precautions and have the infrastructure to save images etc.
posted by sockpup at 11:02 AM on May 18, 2010
posted by sockpup at 11:02 AM on May 18, 2010
Response by poster: Yea, sockpup I've been thinking the same thing. New "Services" sheet, pricing guideline, etc. is on the way.
And orthogonality--you're right, not telling me anything I don't already know. My only retort is that, prior to this, it never seemed like this user was lacking any skills, he's been pretty savvy up until now.
2Tb backup drive has been ordered, lesson has been learned.
posted by TomMelee at 11:27 AM on May 18, 2010
And orthogonality--you're right, not telling me anything I don't already know. My only retort is that, prior to this, it never seemed like this user was lacking any skills, he's been pretty savvy up until now.
2Tb backup drive has been ordered, lesson has been learned.
posted by TomMelee at 11:27 AM on May 18, 2010
Response by poster: In case anyone is still reading this thread...
I want to image drives so I can restore them fully. however, what if I want to recover just a file or two? Can I peek inside an image, or can I mount the image to a virtual machine? Or should I just backup the entire file structure directly?
I'm mostly familiar w/ DriveImage XML, although acronis is an issue too---unless someone else has a different idea.
posted by TomMelee at 12:41 PM on May 18, 2010
I want to image drives so I can restore them fully. however, what if I want to recover just a file or two? Can I peek inside an image, or can I mount the image to a virtual machine? Or should I just backup the entire file structure directly?
I'm mostly familiar w/ DriveImage XML, although acronis is an issue too---unless someone else has a different idea.
posted by TomMelee at 12:41 PM on May 18, 2010
Best answer: With Acronis (and most major imaging suites) you can browse through an image and restore selected files.
posted by sockpup at 1:25 PM on May 18, 2010
posted by sockpup at 1:25 PM on May 18, 2010
Best answer: Just to add, you may want to google around for (or design your own) a form that has them answer all these questions about stuff like documents, fonts, etc.
And, yes, you need to image drives before you do a reformat.
And, finally, this guy got what he paid for. You are a tiny PC business that charged him almost nothing.
posted by k8t at 8:41 AM on May 19, 2010
And, yes, you need to image drives before you do a reformat.
And, finally, this guy got what he paid for. You are a tiny PC business that charged him almost nothing.
posted by k8t at 8:41 AM on May 19, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks all. I guess you'll shudder too to learn we recently converted his site to wordpress (duplicated the previous look of his site exactly), got his online store operational, and trained him on the system for a total of $650.
eeeeeeeeep.
But yes, the forms are made now. That part is done, and thanks to some awesome MeFites for some awesome MeMail with some directional guidance re: pricing, etc.
Now I get to ask the follow up question (which I'm sure nobody will answer here), if you build a site exactly to someone's specifications, and they love it, but you are personally embarrassed about it, should you add it to your portfolio? (I think his site is uuuuuuuuuugly)
posted by TomMelee at 9:19 AM on May 19, 2010
eeeeeeeeep.
But yes, the forms are made now. That part is done, and thanks to some awesome MeFites for some awesome MeMail with some directional guidance re: pricing, etc.
Now I get to ask the follow up question (which I'm sure nobody will answer here), if you build a site exactly to someone's specifications, and they love it, but you are personally embarrassed about it, should you add it to your portfolio? (I think his site is uuuuuuuuuugly)
posted by TomMelee at 9:19 AM on May 19, 2010
Best answer: Your portfolio is for work that you feel repesents your skill and ability. If you think his site is ugly and does not represent your abilities well, leave it out of the portfolio.
posted by owtytrof at 10:04 AM on May 19, 2010
posted by owtytrof at 10:04 AM on May 19, 2010
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2. Waive the fee.
3. Yes, in the future, image the entire drive. Keep it in your safe for 30 days. You could even offer this service to future clients at an additional cost.
If this guy is still your client after this, it would be a good opportunity to educate him about the virtues of backups.
posted by paulg at 7:52 AM on May 18, 2010