How to set a better example for a controlled 10-year-old girl?
May 6, 2010 6:23 PM Subscribe
A friend's 10-year-old daughter is being controlled by her boyfriend (yes, the 10-year-old's boyfriend!). Crazy, I know. How can we help?
My friend split from her husband when her now 10-year-old daughter was 3. She also has a son who is now 8. She's a single mom, overworked, overstressed, and really has her hands full trying to raise her kids to be respectful and kind. Unfortunately, a lot of other problems in her life have certainly impacted her daughter -- for example, her son has had lifelong serious health problems; the family has had to be a bit transient due to financial problems; and the father lives very close by but refuses to be involved with his kids, to name a few.
Now, like many girls her age, the 10-year-old daughter has a little boyfriend, whom apparently has become pretty demanding and controlling as of late: doesn't like his girl talking to other boys, gets angry when she's late calling him, etc. There's also the typical teen/preteen drama that goes with any relationship of that age -- these kids are obsessed with calling and texting each other constantly, every issue is super melodramatic, and so forth.
It sounds pretty ridiculous but it's a real problem for my friend. The obvious solution would be to forbid the daughter to have anything to do with this boy, but because of the many communication problems my friend has with her daughter, and because the daughter's counselor (whom she's worked with for years) has advised my friend not to make such a sweeping rule, that's not an option right now. FWIW my friend is now restricting her daughter's phone/texting time, only lets her use her mom's cell, and is only going to allow her to talk on the phone in a common area of the house.
My friend is looking for ways to (a) empower her daughter and raise her self-esteem and (b) show her daughter that women deserve to be respected by the men in their life, not controlled. (a) is a challenge because her daughter has dropped most of her interests and has sulked her way through every activity her mom has enrolled her in. (b) is a problem because my friend, unfortunately, was the victim of emotional abuse and controlling behavior on the part of the kids' father, which the girl witnessed until she was 3 or 4. My friend is also not currently in any kind of relationship, so she's unable to directly provide a positive example.
We'd love suggestions for some kind of exciting, "girl power" type of activity that might not cause this girl to turn up her nose. Ideas for some sort of preteen-appropriate volunteering with victims of domestic abuse may be a possibility too, if such a thing exists. Finally, any sort of media (books are okay, though my friend is extremely dyslexic so I'll likely be reading them and providing a digest) on the subject, or conversation starters, etc. would be great. Please don't just offer a blanket suggestion that the daughter DTMFA, because honestly, that's not the immediate plan.
Thanks so much.
My friend split from her husband when her now 10-year-old daughter was 3. She also has a son who is now 8. She's a single mom, overworked, overstressed, and really has her hands full trying to raise her kids to be respectful and kind. Unfortunately, a lot of other problems in her life have certainly impacted her daughter -- for example, her son has had lifelong serious health problems; the family has had to be a bit transient due to financial problems; and the father lives very close by but refuses to be involved with his kids, to name a few.
Now, like many girls her age, the 10-year-old daughter has a little boyfriend, whom apparently has become pretty demanding and controlling as of late: doesn't like his girl talking to other boys, gets angry when she's late calling him, etc. There's also the typical teen/preteen drama that goes with any relationship of that age -- these kids are obsessed with calling and texting each other constantly, every issue is super melodramatic, and so forth.
It sounds pretty ridiculous but it's a real problem for my friend. The obvious solution would be to forbid the daughter to have anything to do with this boy, but because of the many communication problems my friend has with her daughter, and because the daughter's counselor (whom she's worked with for years) has advised my friend not to make such a sweeping rule, that's not an option right now. FWIW my friend is now restricting her daughter's phone/texting time, only lets her use her mom's cell, and is only going to allow her to talk on the phone in a common area of the house.
My friend is looking for ways to (a) empower her daughter and raise her self-esteem and (b) show her daughter that women deserve to be respected by the men in their life, not controlled. (a) is a challenge because her daughter has dropped most of her interests and has sulked her way through every activity her mom has enrolled her in. (b) is a problem because my friend, unfortunately, was the victim of emotional abuse and controlling behavior on the part of the kids' father, which the girl witnessed until she was 3 or 4. My friend is also not currently in any kind of relationship, so she's unable to directly provide a positive example.
We'd love suggestions for some kind of exciting, "girl power" type of activity that might not cause this girl to turn up her nose. Ideas for some sort of preteen-appropriate volunteering with victims of domestic abuse may be a possibility too, if such a thing exists. Finally, any sort of media (books are okay, though my friend is extremely dyslexic so I'll likely be reading them and providing a digest) on the subject, or conversation starters, etc. would be great. Please don't just offer a blanket suggestion that the daughter DTMFA, because honestly, that's not the immediate plan.
Thanks so much.
Best answer: Sorry, I missed the part about not making any sweeping rules!
I'd say look into local programs like Girls, Inc. and Boys and Girls Club to see what programs they might have for her.
posted by too bad you're not me at 6:42 PM on May 6, 2010
I'd say look into local programs like Girls, Inc. and Boys and Girls Club to see what programs they might have for her.
posted by too bad you're not me at 6:42 PM on May 6, 2010
There is no way that a 10 year old girl should be put in this position.
A 10 year old should not be in any situation where a boy is defined as a "boyfriend" or in activities more suited to a girl much older.
This mother needs to become a parent, make good decisions, and redirect this kid's activities to something more age appropriate.
This isn't to say that some enlightenment might not be important, but that's the second step in what needs to happen.
posted by HuronBob at 6:44 PM on May 6, 2010 [20 favorites]
A 10 year old should not be in any situation where a boy is defined as a "boyfriend" or in activities more suited to a girl much older.
This mother needs to become a parent, make good decisions, and redirect this kid's activities to something more age appropriate.
This isn't to say that some enlightenment might not be important, but that's the second step in what needs to happen.
posted by HuronBob at 6:44 PM on May 6, 2010 [20 favorites]
It doesn't sound ridiculous, it sounds terrifying. Does the therapist think it's normal for a 10 year old to have a boyfriend? In my circles (I am not a parent) this is pretty much unheard of.
That said, I don't think it's unreasonable to SEVERELY limit the phone/text/internet right now. Like, so severely it's almost non-existent. Plead no money to pay for the cell or something that the kid can't argue with. Eeek.
posted by tristeza at 6:44 PM on May 6, 2010 [5 favorites]
That said, I don't think it's unreasonable to SEVERELY limit the phone/text/internet right now. Like, so severely it's almost non-existent. Plead no money to pay for the cell or something that the kid can't argue with. Eeek.
posted by tristeza at 6:44 PM on May 6, 2010 [5 favorites]
We'd love suggestions for some kind of exciting, "girl power" type of activity that might not cause this girl to turn up her nose.
It would be helpful toward answering this question if you would share absolutely anything about this little girl's personality and interests. All you seem to have said is that she's dropped interests. Did she like animals? Singing? Sports? Art?
How about an adult or older role model, like in a Big Sister program? Mentoring? I can't make meaningful suggestions because I feel like I know absolutely nothing about this child other than that she has a boyfriend, is treated too permissively with phone/text time, and has a sibling with health issues. There's all this on and on about all of these problems, and it sounds to me like people are viewing a Problem and letting a little girl get lost. Of course, take that with a grain of salt since I don't know these folks.
posted by bunnycup at 6:52 PM on May 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
It would be helpful toward answering this question if you would share absolutely anything about this little girl's personality and interests. All you seem to have said is that she's dropped interests. Did she like animals? Singing? Sports? Art?
How about an adult or older role model, like in a Big Sister program? Mentoring? I can't make meaningful suggestions because I feel like I know absolutely nothing about this child other than that she has a boyfriend, is treated too permissively with phone/text time, and has a sibling with health issues. There's all this on and on about all of these problems, and it sounds to me like people are viewing a Problem and letting a little girl get lost. Of course, take that with a grain of salt since I don't know these folks.
posted by bunnycup at 6:52 PM on May 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
Best answer: My friend is also not currently in any kind of relationship, so she's unable to directly provide a positive example.
Of course she can. Your friend can not only model strong behavior for her daughter in an ongoing relationship, but also in an ex-relationship. How does she interact with the children's father now? Even though they are not together she still may be modeling "victim" behavior in the aspects of the relationship that linger (even thinking about the father's lack of involvement in a defeated way is modeling behavior to the daughter). And by modeling strength in front of her daughter, even if it's just with her friends/boyfriend, it gives the daughter permission to exhibit strength as well.
Not the same thing, but when my son was "under the influence" of a bullyish kid who saw my son as his lackey and took advantage of him etc., I realized I needed to "show" my son rather than "tell" him how to be his own man. So I had him invite the kid over to play (they were also 10 at the time), and once the kid was in our house, I made him comfortable, invited him to dinner, to sleep over, etc. Politeness ensued but soon enough he was taking over, not letting my son use his own computer, guitar, etc. Every time it happened I stepped in and said, very casually, "whoa Mike, around here we take turns" or "easy there, grabbing a guitar out of someone else's hands is dangerous business" etc. Before too long I could just give him "the look" and before too long after that my son started saying the same kinds of things. It is now 6 years later and while my son is still something of a follower, and I worry about him (his family situation was not dissimilar from the one you describe, and some anxiety/self-esteem issues remain), but re-enacting that scenario many times over the years showed him how to resist bullying without having it get ugly.
I am sure it's quite different for girls with the self-esteem/abusive parental relationship situation, but hopefully my son's experience and growth can help your friend's daughter in some way.
posted by headnsouth at 6:54 PM on May 6, 2010 [24 favorites]
Of course she can. Your friend can not only model strong behavior for her daughter in an ongoing relationship, but also in an ex-relationship. How does she interact with the children's father now? Even though they are not together she still may be modeling "victim" behavior in the aspects of the relationship that linger (even thinking about the father's lack of involvement in a defeated way is modeling behavior to the daughter). And by modeling strength in front of her daughter, even if it's just with her friends/boyfriend, it gives the daughter permission to exhibit strength as well.
Not the same thing, but when my son was "under the influence" of a bullyish kid who saw my son as his lackey and took advantage of him etc., I realized I needed to "show" my son rather than "tell" him how to be his own man. So I had him invite the kid over to play (they were also 10 at the time), and once the kid was in our house, I made him comfortable, invited him to dinner, to sleep over, etc. Politeness ensued but soon enough he was taking over, not letting my son use his own computer, guitar, etc. Every time it happened I stepped in and said, very casually, "whoa Mike, around here we take turns" or "easy there, grabbing a guitar out of someone else's hands is dangerous business" etc. Before too long I could just give him "the look" and before too long after that my son started saying the same kinds of things. It is now 6 years later and while my son is still something of a follower, and I worry about him (his family situation was not dissimilar from the one you describe, and some anxiety/self-esteem issues remain), but re-enacting that scenario many times over the years showed him how to resist bullying without having it get ugly.
I am sure it's quite different for girls with the self-esteem/abusive parental relationship situation, but hopefully my son's experience and growth can help your friend's daughter in some way.
posted by headnsouth at 6:54 PM on May 6, 2010 [24 favorites]
At ten she can start getting into music beyond Hannah Montana. Load up her iPod with music with girl power lyrics (my ten year old loves Shiloh as a start; I am pretty sure there are a couple of questions in the past with great lists). Sports are another great way to boost her confidence while also giving her greater control over her body. I would recommend a martial arts class with a lot of girls, especially older ones who can be positive role models. She definitely needs positive female role models outside of the people that she has already knows. Can you ask at a local high school about finding a girl to mentor her? She may balk at a babysitter but a tutor could help with schoolwork as well as modelling positive behavour. Obviously you would need a very mature girl.
Where I live, no ten year old has a boyfriend. I hope the parents are in communication with each other.
posted by saucysault at 6:58 PM on May 6, 2010
Where I live, no ten year old has a boyfriend. I hope the parents are in communication with each other.
posted by saucysault at 6:58 PM on May 6, 2010
Hey, when you're 10, a "boyfriend" is just some boy you kind of like. You're not going on dates, you might go over to his house (with his parents). One of my nicest memories was of Eric Streetman's parents taking me out to a restaurant with him; I think I was in fifth grade. Did I feel anything particularly intense for Eric? Not really, but it was nice that he wasn't making fun of me (unlike many of the other kids).
Years and years later, out of the blue, he asked me to his prom (we were in different schools at the time). It was fine. We were friends. I went to college and lost track of him.
So - having a "boyfriend" at 10 isn't a death sentence.
posted by amtho at 6:59 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Years and years later, out of the blue, he asked me to his prom (we were in different schools at the time). It was fine. We were friends. I went to college and lost track of him.
So - having a "boyfriend" at 10 isn't a death sentence.
posted by amtho at 6:59 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I apologize for the lack of details about the girl's interests (and non-interests). She likes and is talented at singing and participates in this at school. She used to be good at soccer but lost interest in that. She has been enrolled in art classes but pouted and sulked and claimed to hate it. She likes popular music, socializing with her friends, and things of that nature.
I'm wondering if maybe I chose the wrong word when I said "boyfriend." I don't know. They're in classes together, talk outside of school regularly, and that's pretty much it. When I was her age I did the same thing with boys and we called it "going together." That was not unusual back then, nor does it seem to be abnormal where I live now.
Finally, just in case I didn't make it clear, this girl has no personal cell phone anymore, but the mom does let her daughter use hers (the mom's) sometimes.
posted by justonegirl at 6:59 PM on May 6, 2010
I'm wondering if maybe I chose the wrong word when I said "boyfriend." I don't know. They're in classes together, talk outside of school regularly, and that's pretty much it. When I was her age I did the same thing with boys and we called it "going together." That was not unusual back then, nor does it seem to be abnormal where I live now.
Finally, just in case I didn't make it clear, this girl has no personal cell phone anymore, but the mom does let her daughter use hers (the mom's) sometimes.
posted by justonegirl at 6:59 PM on May 6, 2010
Your friend needs to put her foot down and be a parent. I'm not saying she's not, but she's allowing a controlling 10 year old boy to set the rules for her house. I know you said no sweeping generalizations, but if your friend would put her foot down, the controlling 10 year old boy wouldn't even be an issue. Until the foot gets put down, 10 year olds shouldn't have cell phones to begin with, and any use of cell phone/internet should be SEVERELY limited and attentively supervised.
posted by ThaBombShelterSmith at 7:00 PM on May 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by ThaBombShelterSmith at 7:00 PM on May 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'm not saying that _this_ 10-year-old boyfriend isn't a problem, just saying that having a boyfriend at 10 doesn't mean something tragic. FWIW, I was a very "late bloomer" and didn't really date until college (maybe one or two "dates" late in high school).
posted by amtho at 7:01 PM on May 6, 2010
posted by amtho at 7:01 PM on May 6, 2010
Seconding HuronBob. The mom needs to be a mom and not be letting her 10 year old daughter be in any sort of adult like relationship. Ten year old girls need to be 10 year old girls not 16 or 21 year old girls. Take away the phone, the internet, whatever else she needs to, get her involved in Big Sisters or a similar program. I think the mom should also speak with the school and see how widespread this 'dating' actually is (outside the daughter and her close circle). Perhaps the school can encourage some more active activities or make some other suggestions.
(Also, maybe this mom should talk to the 10 year old boy's mom and let them know how he's treating her daughter. A controlling 10 year old boyfriend seems likely to turn into an adult controlling boyfriend/husband).
posted by Abbril at 7:07 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
(Also, maybe this mom should talk to the 10 year old boy's mom and let them know how he's treating her daughter. A controlling 10 year old boyfriend seems likely to turn into an adult controlling boyfriend/husband).
posted by Abbril at 7:07 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't think it's remotely reasonable for a ten year old to have a boyfriend - and I'm the parent of kids 15, 17 and 20 - none of my kids nor their friends were dating at that age. I think limiting contact, restricting internet/text/phone all make sense. I'd think about finding this child some other activities - sports, music, arts, or science stuff depending on her interests and what's available/affordable for her mother. The school year is almost over and going limp on allowing contact over the summer while filling her time with other activities should go quite a ways towards solving the problem. The trick is to be non-confrontational about it - just not enabling the contact should help unless the kid lives really close by. In terms of activities finding stuff that's so engrossing that she can't hold on to her sulk should help - maybe working with animals? It needs to be something that she really gets grabbed by and without knowing her interests or what's available it's hard to make good suggestions.
posted by leslies at 7:07 PM on May 6, 2010
posted by leslies at 7:07 PM on May 6, 2010
She's a single mom, overworked, overstressed, and really has her hands full trying to raise her kids to be respectful and kind.
This is one time where tv/movies might help a lot. They, the mom and daughter, could spend time together watching anime or shows that present positive and strong models of girls and women.
Also, as a friend, would you be willing to babysit the girl every now and then, give her someone else besides mom to confide in?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:07 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is one time where tv/movies might help a lot. They, the mom and daughter, could spend time together watching anime or shows that present positive and strong models of girls and women.
Also, as a friend, would you be willing to babysit the girl every now and then, give her someone else besides mom to confide in?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:07 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately this kid will probably end up being a statistic (of the negative sort) because there is no one around to parent her. She will find attention where she can get it (from boys), and she will end up doing whatever she and her friends find interesting (drinking, drugs, sex, etc) because she will have no one around to insist on rules and consequences. Sorry to go off on a rant but I see SO MANY kids in the juvenile justice system who started out just like this. I totally blame this on poor parenting which even if your friend is a nice person, doesn't mean she is parenting this kid very well. Ten year olds should not have their own cell phones, should not be allowed to "date" in any form of the word, should have very limited (and supervised) access to the computer, and they need close supervision, rules, consequences, and someone to hold them accountable. Obviously they need lots of love and positive attention too. Enrolling her in activities is like pawning her off on someone else (and the kid knows this). What this kid needs is a mom (and a "village") to be attached to her like a Siamese twin until she grows up enough to learn how to be responsible for herself and make good decisions which it doesn't sound like her mom is able to do.
p.s. The couselor sounds like an idiot.
I'll hop off my soapbox now.
posted by MsKim at 7:12 PM on May 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
p.s. The couselor sounds like an idiot.
I'll hop off my soapbox now.
posted by MsKim at 7:12 PM on May 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
Guys, could we at least all read the question fully? The OP states:
- the kid DOES NOT have her own cell phone
- the dad is not involved in the kid's life
posted by tristeza at 7:18 PM on May 6, 2010
- the kid DOES NOT have her own cell phone
- the dad is not involved in the kid's life
posted by tristeza at 7:18 PM on May 6, 2010
This doesn't add up. The phrasing might make sense if the question were about a 16-year-old. But 10? It sounds like she's being way too hands-off.
Can your friend contact this boy's parents and inform them of what's going on? Is the daughter's therapist really offering no solutions? Is this therapist really not batting an eyelash at the idea of a 10-year-old in a controlling relationship with a boyfriend? If your friend feels that her past experience in a controlling relationship impedes her ability to parent her 10-year-old daughter effectively, is she pursuing therapy or a support group or something similar on her own?
Also, pouting and sulking and claiming to hate [art classes/any given activity] is what preteen girls do. It doesn't mean that art classes won't do her any good and it doesn't mean that your friend should just let her drop out. There are plenty of classes and activities that my parents made me do that actually helped me to develop better social skills, develop a strong work ethic, and deal with situations I found stressful or frustrating. The standard rule in my house was that, if something wasn't actually problematic (i.e., abusive, harmful, bullying, dysfunctional, etc.), I had to stick it out until the class ended or the season was over. If there is a positive music or art program this girl can be part of, I'd suggest that her mom give her two options: sign up and stick with that program or find another program through her own research and sign up and stick with the one she finds. Sometimes (usually?) good parenting means ignoring the sulking and the "I hate this!" for the child's own good. It's definitely a balance between trusting what your kid says and saying, "I hear you but you're not quitting the art class," but it sounds like your friend may be too quick to think that "I hate this!" is the final word.
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:21 PM on May 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
Can your friend contact this boy's parents and inform them of what's going on? Is the daughter's therapist really offering no solutions? Is this therapist really not batting an eyelash at the idea of a 10-year-old in a controlling relationship with a boyfriend? If your friend feels that her past experience in a controlling relationship impedes her ability to parent her 10-year-old daughter effectively, is she pursuing therapy or a support group or something similar on her own?
Also, pouting and sulking and claiming to hate [art classes/any given activity] is what preteen girls do. It doesn't mean that art classes won't do her any good and it doesn't mean that your friend should just let her drop out. There are plenty of classes and activities that my parents made me do that actually helped me to develop better social skills, develop a strong work ethic, and deal with situations I found stressful or frustrating. The standard rule in my house was that, if something wasn't actually problematic (i.e., abusive, harmful, bullying, dysfunctional, etc.), I had to stick it out until the class ended or the season was over. If there is a positive music or art program this girl can be part of, I'd suggest that her mom give her two options: sign up and stick with that program or find another program through her own research and sign up and stick with the one she finds. Sometimes (usually?) good parenting means ignoring the sulking and the "I hate this!" for the child's own good. It's definitely a balance between trusting what your kid says and saying, "I hear you but you're not quitting the art class," but it sounds like your friend may be too quick to think that "I hate this!" is the final word.
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:21 PM on May 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for the responses so far. I would love any additional ideas people may have. I did want to emphasize, for what it's worth, that my friend is truly a single parent in every sense of the word -- she has NO help or input from her ex-husband, and a fairly limited support system of her own.
Also, I say this not to discount the very valid points many have made about her parenting choices, but in my experience, many single parents are forced to operate by a very different set of standards/norms than dual-parent households do, or than people with more resources do. In my friend's case, she's working extremely hard at an underpaying job to financially support her kids and maintain their health and household as best she can, and is trying hard to juggle both her kids' physical and emotional wellbeing under some tough circumstances. I point this out not to be argumentative, but because I think there's a degree of luxury in being able to devote sufficient time to managing problems such as these, and my friend would desperately like to have this luxury but realistically, she doesn't. I get that a lot of people think she's a crummy mom, but please, I'd be really grateful for any tangible suggestions. I'm trying to help this person and I'm not going to just tell her she sucks.
posted by justonegirl at 7:30 PM on May 6, 2010 [9 favorites]
Also, I say this not to discount the very valid points many have made about her parenting choices, but in my experience, many single parents are forced to operate by a very different set of standards/norms than dual-parent households do, or than people with more resources do. In my friend's case, she's working extremely hard at an underpaying job to financially support her kids and maintain their health and household as best she can, and is trying hard to juggle both her kids' physical and emotional wellbeing under some tough circumstances. I point this out not to be argumentative, but because I think there's a degree of luxury in being able to devote sufficient time to managing problems such as these, and my friend would desperately like to have this luxury but realistically, she doesn't. I get that a lot of people think she's a crummy mom, but please, I'd be really grateful for any tangible suggestions. I'm trying to help this person and I'm not going to just tell her she sucks.
posted by justonegirl at 7:30 PM on May 6, 2010 [9 favorites]
Sports has proven track record of being emotionally healthy for girls - builds confidence, teamwork and sense of the capability of her body. With summer coming up, a soccer camp may be worth a try.
Girl Scouts is another organization that can be great (it varies widely from troop to troop). There is also the option of being a "Juliette" - a scout without a troop and just participate in council level activities. In our area there was an outdoor adventure group for middle school kids that met once a month - any girl could participate for the $10 annual membership fee in scouting.
Another thing is to watch TV shows or movies together and the mother can comment on the relationships (why does she put up with that? See how he pays attention to her feelings - that is a good boyfriend?). Seventh Heaven used to be good for that and age appropriate.
Also, the therapist should be (and may be already) exploring what makes for a good friend and what makes for a good girl/boy friend.
ps. In our area, a 6th grader (11) told me that if you have a boyfriend, you go to movies together, you talk at lunch and recess, you hold hands and the boy (but not the girl) writes love notes. Anything more physical than that is "yicky" or "too squishy" YMMV.
posted by metahawk at 7:31 PM on May 6, 2010
Girl Scouts is another organization that can be great (it varies widely from troop to troop). There is also the option of being a "Juliette" - a scout without a troop and just participate in council level activities. In our area there was an outdoor adventure group for middle school kids that met once a month - any girl could participate for the $10 annual membership fee in scouting.
Another thing is to watch TV shows or movies together and the mother can comment on the relationships (why does she put up with that? See how he pays attention to her feelings - that is a good boyfriend?). Seventh Heaven used to be good for that and age appropriate.
Also, the therapist should be (and may be already) exploring what makes for a good friend and what makes for a good girl/boy friend.
ps. In our area, a 6th grader (11) told me that if you have a boyfriend, you go to movies together, you talk at lunch and recess, you hold hands and the boy (but not the girl) writes love notes. Anything more physical than that is "yicky" or "too squishy" YMMV.
posted by metahawk at 7:31 PM on May 6, 2010
Best answer: Random ideas: Roller derby, Great mother-daughter activity with positive female role models. Kikis delivery service is a great movie. Music lessons - drums or guitar. Ignore the sulking. Keeping her busy limits the time the boyfriend can monopolise her. Enrolling her in activities is NOT pawning her off unless the mother is a superwoman who can teach her child all her diverse interests on a professional level. If anything she needs to be raised by more people, expecting a single parent to do it all alone is setting the entire family up for failure.
posted by saucysault at 7:37 PM on May 6, 2010
posted by saucysault at 7:37 PM on May 6, 2010
"I think there's a degree of luxury in being able to devote sufficient time to managing problems such as these"
Parenting is never a "luxury", it is a "priority"... that's where the change needs to happen...
posted by HuronBob at 7:42 PM on May 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
Parenting is never a "luxury", it is a "priority"... that's where the change needs to happen...
posted by HuronBob at 7:42 PM on May 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: For pete's sake...my point was not that parenting isn't a priority, it's that some parents have to devote a lot more time to trying to get food on the table and keep the lights on, and don't always have the luxury of resolving every issue for their kids without support. That's why I'm trying to help find some ideas and suggestions. Telling my friend to "be a parent" is not going to help.
posted by justonegirl at 7:50 PM on May 6, 2010 [14 favorites]
posted by justonegirl at 7:50 PM on May 6, 2010 [14 favorites]
Huronbob, I think concrete suggestions would be more helpful than judgement. The quote mention TIME as a luxury, not parenting. It doesn't sound like the mother is hitting the bingonhalls instead of parenting, she simply does not have the financial, societal or temporal resources that most middle class dual parents take for granted. If you have suggestions on how she can realistically improve those three things that would be more effective than shaming her.
posted by saucysault at 7:56 PM on May 6, 2010 [7 favorites]
posted by saucysault at 7:56 PM on May 6, 2010 [7 favorites]
Best answer: For pete's sake...my point was not that parenting isn't a priority, it's that some parents have to devote a lot more time to trying to get food on the table and keep the lights on, and don't always have the luxury of resolving every issue for their kids without support. That's why I'm trying to help find some ideas and suggestions. Telling my friend to "be a parent" is not going to help.
I'm glad you said it. I'm sorry you are getting such off topic and judgmental answers, I am not surprised by it (and hope you aren't either), but I am sorry about it.
If she is into singing and pop music, I wonder if it's not too late to get her into some kind of performing arts summer program? Might have the benefit of getting her out of the neighborhood hanging around with this little jerk boyfriend. As a woman who grew up with hours of ballet 5-6 days a week around that age, I think performing arts can really help with the self-esteem issues that might arise from an absent father scenario and be impacting an interpersonal/relationship dynamic. Not trying to be an armchair psych, just thinking out loud about why I am proposing that organized performing arts would be helpful. Nothing super competitive, mind, but something where she can have fun, try at it, succeed, and be praised.
posted by bunnycup at 8:03 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm glad you said it. I'm sorry you are getting such off topic and judgmental answers, I am not surprised by it (and hope you aren't either), but I am sorry about it.
If she is into singing and pop music, I wonder if it's not too late to get her into some kind of performing arts summer program? Might have the benefit of getting her out of the neighborhood hanging around with this little jerk boyfriend. As a woman who grew up with hours of ballet 5-6 days a week around that age, I think performing arts can really help with the self-esteem issues that might arise from an absent father scenario and be impacting an interpersonal/relationship dynamic. Not trying to be an armchair psych, just thinking out loud about why I am proposing that organized performing arts would be helpful. Nothing super competitive, mind, but something where she can have fun, try at it, succeed, and be praised.
posted by bunnycup at 8:03 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I am honestly not trying to be judgemental, my intent is to focus on the actions that are going to make a difference, specifically: finding time to parent this child and having a reasonable concept of what is appropriate for a 10 year old girl.
This sentence "doesn't like his girl talking to other boys, gets angry when she's late calling him, etc. There's also the typical teen/preteen drama that goes with any relationship of that age -- these kids are obsessed with calling and texting each other constantly, every issue is super melodramatic, and so forth" is troubling. Read that a couple of times... this is a description of an adult relationship gone wrong, not a 10 year old with a playmate.
I sincerely believe that until this is acknowledged, there is the potential for serious problems for this young girl.
posted by HuronBob at 8:15 PM on May 6, 2010 [6 favorites]
This sentence "doesn't like his girl talking to other boys, gets angry when she's late calling him, etc. There's also the typical teen/preteen drama that goes with any relationship of that age -- these kids are obsessed with calling and texting each other constantly, every issue is super melodramatic, and so forth" is troubling. Read that a couple of times... this is a description of an adult relationship gone wrong, not a 10 year old with a playmate.
I sincerely believe that until this is acknowledged, there is the potential for serious problems for this young girl.
posted by HuronBob at 8:15 PM on May 6, 2010 [6 favorites]
Nthing Big Brothers/Big Sisters.
This situation is exactly what the program is designed for - kids from single parent homes who need a role model. IIRC, the cutoff age is 12, and you may have to wait a while for a match, so get moving on the application process. The Big promises to meet with the Little at least twice a month for 3-5 hours. The activities are very open-ended (but they do try to match people with compatible interests) ... the important thing is that the kid gets another adult in her life who cares about her and who does have the luxury of time.
posted by Metasyntactic at 8:29 PM on May 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
This situation is exactly what the program is designed for - kids from single parent homes who need a role model. IIRC, the cutoff age is 12, and you may have to wait a while for a match, so get moving on the application process. The Big promises to meet with the Little at least twice a month for 3-5 hours. The activities are very open-ended (but they do try to match people with compatible interests) ... the important thing is that the kid gets another adult in her life who cares about her and who does have the luxury of time.
posted by Metasyntactic at 8:29 PM on May 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
I second possibly calling the boy's parents, though if he learned this behavior at home from Dad, that might not work.
I would suggest your friend perhaps trying to find good male role models for your kid to be around. I'm guessing from the tone of these posts she probably doesn't have one or time to find some, but the kid somehow needs to learn that man does not always equate to abuser. And right now, she probably thinks that (sorry).
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:31 PM on May 6, 2010
I would suggest your friend perhaps trying to find good male role models for your kid to be around. I'm guessing from the tone of these posts she probably doesn't have one or time to find some, but the kid somehow needs to learn that man does not always equate to abuser. And right now, she probably thinks that (sorry).
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:31 PM on May 6, 2010
Nthing the need to pick up some sort of extracurricular activity to stay busier, though maybe something outside of the normal sports/ arts type activities. Does her school have any type of peer counseling program, or something similar? That's not a bad place to learn self-respect and how to interact in a healthy way with others. For that matter, any responsible and self directed activity might be a good thing for helping her daughter to learn to be in charge of herself (a little) and make her own decisions. Maybe animal-related activities--horseback riding and so on? Is there a family dog that she could take to obedience school?
And involve the daughter in the decision making process, and maybe present her with several options on what she can do over the summer and let her pick a couple.
posted by _cave at 8:31 PM on May 6, 2010
And involve the daughter in the decision making process, and maybe present her with several options on what she can do over the summer and let her pick a couple.
posted by _cave at 8:31 PM on May 6, 2010
Best answer: I agree that a martial arts class/summer camp might help this girl learn to be more assertive. The suggestion would probably go over better after she was exposed to some books/shows with ass-kicking heroines and began to identify with that sort of character. Unfortunately I don't know many age-appropriate examples. There are probably some good book suggestions in these threads.
One other thought I had is that this girl, especially if she has self-esteem problems, may feel trapped between what her "boyfriend" wants and what her mother wants, and unable to figure out what she wants. She might not know how to say no to him or break up with him even if the relationship makes her unhappy. If your friend has not already done this, she should tell the daughter that she is happy to be the bad guy any time the girl wants to say no to something but feels too insecure to do it on her own, whether it's just getting out of a particular event or breaking up entirely, or setting a particular rule for their relationship. For kids just starting out with dating, sometimes getting to say "Mom says I'm not allowed to" (or even having Mom deliver that message to the boy herself) is really helpful, if they get to pick when to play that card.
posted by unsub at 8:32 PM on May 6, 2010 [7 favorites]
One other thought I had is that this girl, especially if she has self-esteem problems, may feel trapped between what her "boyfriend" wants and what her mother wants, and unable to figure out what she wants. She might not know how to say no to him or break up with him even if the relationship makes her unhappy. If your friend has not already done this, she should tell the daughter that she is happy to be the bad guy any time the girl wants to say no to something but feels too insecure to do it on her own, whether it's just getting out of a particular event or breaking up entirely, or setting a particular rule for their relationship. For kids just starting out with dating, sometimes getting to say "Mom says I'm not allowed to" (or even having Mom deliver that message to the boy herself) is really helpful, if they get to pick when to play that card.
posted by unsub at 8:32 PM on May 6, 2010 [7 favorites]
I am a student teacher who works with fourth graders all day in a school setting and I have eavesdropped on many a conversation. Honestly, everyone needs to stop freaking out about a ten-year-old having a "boyfriend". Whether or not you believe it to be possible does not affect the reality of the situation, and the reality is that fourth and fifth graders very often talk about who is "going out" and who is "boyfriend-girlfriend". This is just something that they do. What you must realize is that the feelings behind it are about as deep as thinking the boy/girl is pretty, thinking the boy/girl is good at PE, sitting next to the boy/girl everyday in class, etc. So please, chill out. It's innocent and often cute.
That said, this situation is obviously not acceptable. The problem is not the cell phone. The problem is the dynamic between the children. This dynamic most likely arose from a lack of positive role models on BOTH sides. The boy is most likely acting like this because he sees an important male in his life treating other women this way. That fact is just as worrying to me as the girl being manipulated. They are children and they are just mirroring what they think they should be doing as adults.
Why can't the mother tackle this head-on? Forbidding contact will do nothing and is stupid. Children will always find a way around it, and they are together at school anyway. I say invite the boy to dinner one night, preferably having his parent or guardian come along too. Talk about it. Make it known that it isn't appropriate and that no one deserves to be treated that way. At the same time, model positive interaction. Take them bowling sometime. Provide opportunities for the kids to play together loosely supervised so that any problem behaviors can be witnessed and addressed in the moment. At the very least the parents of both children should be in communication.
posted by delicate_dahlias at 8:36 PM on May 6, 2010 [22 favorites]
That said, this situation is obviously not acceptable. The problem is not the cell phone. The problem is the dynamic between the children. This dynamic most likely arose from a lack of positive role models on BOTH sides. The boy is most likely acting like this because he sees an important male in his life treating other women this way. That fact is just as worrying to me as the girl being manipulated. They are children and they are just mirroring what they think they should be doing as adults.
Why can't the mother tackle this head-on? Forbidding contact will do nothing and is stupid. Children will always find a way around it, and they are together at school anyway. I say invite the boy to dinner one night, preferably having his parent or guardian come along too. Talk about it. Make it known that it isn't appropriate and that no one deserves to be treated that way. At the same time, model positive interaction. Take them bowling sometime. Provide opportunities for the kids to play together loosely supervised so that any problem behaviors can be witnessed and addressed in the moment. At the very least the parents of both children should be in communication.
posted by delicate_dahlias at 8:36 PM on May 6, 2010 [22 favorites]
My friend is looking for ways to (a) empower her daughter and raise her self-esteem and (b) show her daughter that women deserve to be respected by the men in their life, not controlled. (a) is a challenge because her daughter has dropped most of her interests and has sulked her way through every activity her mom has enrolled her in. (b) is a problem because my friend, unfortunately, was the victim of emotional abuse and controlling behavior on the part of the kids' father, which the girl witnessed until she was 3 or 4. My friend is also not currently in any kind of relationship, so she's unable to directly provide a positive example.
We'd love suggestions for some kind of exciting, "girl power" type of activity that might not cause this girl to turn up her nose. Ideas for some sort of preteen-appropriate volunteering with victims of domestic abuse may be a possibility too, if such a thing exists. Finally, any sort of media (books are okay, though my friend is extremely dyslexic so I'll likely be reading them and providing a digest) on the subject, or conversation starters, etc. would be great. Please don't just offer a blanket suggestion that the daughter DTMFA, because honestly, that's not the immediate plan.
I'm quoting this portion of the question because so many of the responses so far seem to have ignored it.
Someone else suggested Girls Inc. Is your friend in Maryland? Here's the website for Girls Inc, MD.
That said, the behavior your describing between the boy and the girl fits the classic pattern of an abusive relationship. It's heartbreaking that this is happening to a girl who is only 10 years old, but it doesn't change the fact of what it is. When someone seeks to control your relationships with other people and lashes out at you for failure to be under their control, they are an abuser and you are being abused.
The first step to health in this situation is the step away from the abuser. You've said that DTMFA is off the table, which is unfortunate. If that's the case, though, you and your friend will need to find ways to fill the girl's life with so many other interesting, engaging, and exciting activities that she forgets her abuser and finds herself again.
(BTW, I don't think having a 10-year girl volunteer with abused women is actually advisable in this situation, given her own difficulties. I think it would be much better for her to be around healthy women and men.)
posted by alms at 8:37 PM on May 6, 2010
We'd love suggestions for some kind of exciting, "girl power" type of activity that might not cause this girl to turn up her nose. Ideas for some sort of preteen-appropriate volunteering with victims of domestic abuse may be a possibility too, if such a thing exists. Finally, any sort of media (books are okay, though my friend is extremely dyslexic so I'll likely be reading them and providing a digest) on the subject, or conversation starters, etc. would be great. Please don't just offer a blanket suggestion that the daughter DTMFA, because honestly, that's not the immediate plan.
I'm quoting this portion of the question because so many of the responses so far seem to have ignored it.
Someone else suggested Girls Inc. Is your friend in Maryland? Here's the website for Girls Inc, MD.
That said, the behavior your describing between the boy and the girl fits the classic pattern of an abusive relationship. It's heartbreaking that this is happening to a girl who is only 10 years old, but it doesn't change the fact of what it is. When someone seeks to control your relationships with other people and lashes out at you for failure to be under their control, they are an abuser and you are being abused.
The first step to health in this situation is the step away from the abuser. You've said that DTMFA is off the table, which is unfortunate. If that's the case, though, you and your friend will need to find ways to fill the girl's life with so many other interesting, engaging, and exciting activities that she forgets her abuser and finds herself again.
(BTW, I don't think having a 10-year girl volunteer with abused women is actually advisable in this situation, given her own difficulties. I think it would be much better for her to be around healthy women and men.)
posted by alms at 8:37 PM on May 6, 2010
Best answer: If your friend feels her daughter's teacher is caring and helpful, she should approach her/him for some suggestions and to give a heads-up about the controlling boy. If it is common for children this young to date at this school, the administration might want to think about providing the students with some education around respectful dating and relationships. As delicate_dahlias and alms point out, the boy is engaging in abusive behaviour and he needs to see a healthy relationship model too.
As for positive activities: I think saucysault's suggestion of roller derby is a fantastic idea. One of the members of our local roller derby league is also a youth worker, and as part of her job, she put together a roller derby camp for at-risk pre-teen girls. All equipment was donated, and there was a very minimal registration fee. The camp was a huge success, and even the reluctant participants were really into it by the end and found it quite empowering.
Since the daughter is into pop music and singing, she might enjoy watching the movie Girls Rock! with her mom. There is a Girls Rock Camp in Washington, DC, which might be close enough for her to actually attend (your profile says you're in Maryland; I'm basing this on the assumption that your friend lives near you).
It is good that your friend knows she needs to address this and not let it get worse, but it seems she is at a loss for practical strategies. It also sounds like she could use some emotional support herself. I know she is overworked and overwhelmed, but investing some time in attending a single parent support group could be a huge help so she does not feel so resourceless and alone.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 8:43 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
As for positive activities: I think saucysault's suggestion of roller derby is a fantastic idea. One of the members of our local roller derby league is also a youth worker, and as part of her job, she put together a roller derby camp for at-risk pre-teen girls. All equipment was donated, and there was a very minimal registration fee. The camp was a huge success, and even the reluctant participants were really into it by the end and found it quite empowering.
Since the daughter is into pop music and singing, she might enjoy watching the movie Girls Rock! with her mom. There is a Girls Rock Camp in Washington, DC, which might be close enough for her to actually attend (your profile says you're in Maryland; I'm basing this on the assumption that your friend lives near you).
It is good that your friend knows she needs to address this and not let it get worse, but it seems she is at a loss for practical strategies. It also sounds like she could use some emotional support herself. I know she is overworked and overwhelmed, but investing some time in attending a single parent support group could be a huge help so she does not feel so resourceless and alone.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 8:43 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I have a hard time with the notion that the counselor hasn't been able to come up with anything helpful about this.
I can tell you what my mom would do in the situation: she would have a talk with that boy and tell him if he wants to stay friends with me, he's going to have to be respectful. And then she would tell me that I wasn't allowed to use the phone to talk to people that were not nice, and that I need to tell them when they are bossy, that I am getting off the phone now.
This is a time to be honest and straightforward with how things are going to be, not try to find a girl power movie to watch. Seriously: no anger, no blame, just send the message that no one gets to treat her like that and enjoy her continued attention. I'd let the daughter know that it is up to her to communicate that, and if she doesn't, then Mom will get on the phone and deliver the message herself. Most kids would like to avoid that very embarrassing situation and will take control of the situation if given the chance.
I sure as heck wouldn't let my kid be bullied by some other child just because a counselor has said not to make sweeping rules. Sweeping rules come about because things have gotten out of hand. It's nice to not have to make them, and it's nice if you get to the point they can be rescinded, but sometimes this is what parents have to do.
posted by oneirodynia at 8:50 PM on May 6, 2010 [20 favorites]
I can tell you what my mom would do in the situation: she would have a talk with that boy and tell him if he wants to stay friends with me, he's going to have to be respectful. And then she would tell me that I wasn't allowed to use the phone to talk to people that were not nice, and that I need to tell them when they are bossy, that I am getting off the phone now.
This is a time to be honest and straightforward with how things are going to be, not try to find a girl power movie to watch. Seriously: no anger, no blame, just send the message that no one gets to treat her like that and enjoy her continued attention. I'd let the daughter know that it is up to her to communicate that, and if she doesn't, then Mom will get on the phone and deliver the message herself. Most kids would like to avoid that very embarrassing situation and will take control of the situation if given the chance.
I sure as heck wouldn't let my kid be bullied by some other child just because a counselor has said not to make sweeping rules. Sweeping rules come about because things have gotten out of hand. It's nice to not have to make them, and it's nice if you get to the point they can be rescinded, but sometimes this is what parents have to do.
posted by oneirodynia at 8:50 PM on May 6, 2010 [20 favorites]
I have to agree with HuronBob. I saw that at least one person doesn't feel that having a boyfriend at 10 is a problem. I think that things have changed radically in recent years, and that it IS a REALLY BIG problem. Hearing about pregnant 12 year-olds isn't that uncommon.
I am really surprised that the counselor gave such crappy advice. Just because she's worked with this counselor for years doesn't mean that she's any good or right about this. It's not clear whether the mom is taking the "my daughter is my friend" approach or is actually being a parent.
I think that regardless of pouting, whining, sulking, etc. that she needs to be put in sports and/or art classes and or after-school science programs or whatever so that she is so occupied that she doesn't have time for a boyfriend. Band. Orchestra. 4-H. FFA. Being a candystriper at a nursing home. Horseback riding. Sign her up for Big Sisters? I know that a lot of these have been mentioned. Mom should tell the daughter that she has to pick something, or she'll pick it for her. Let her pout to start with. She'll get over it, as long as boundaries are in place and enforced. And I agree with unsub that it may be helpful if she could tell the boy, "My mom won't let me have a boyfriend until I'm older", knowing that mom means it.
posted by bolognius maximus at 8:52 PM on May 6, 2010
I am really surprised that the counselor gave such crappy advice. Just because she's worked with this counselor for years doesn't mean that she's any good or right about this. It's not clear whether the mom is taking the "my daughter is my friend" approach or is actually being a parent.
I think that regardless of pouting, whining, sulking, etc. that she needs to be put in sports and/or art classes and or after-school science programs or whatever so that she is so occupied that she doesn't have time for a boyfriend. Band. Orchestra. 4-H. FFA. Being a candystriper at a nursing home. Horseback riding. Sign her up for Big Sisters? I know that a lot of these have been mentioned. Mom should tell the daughter that she has to pick something, or she'll pick it for her. Let her pout to start with. She'll get over it, as long as boundaries are in place and enforced. And I agree with unsub that it may be helpful if she could tell the boy, "My mom won't let me have a boyfriend until I'm older", knowing that mom means it.
posted by bolognius maximus at 8:52 PM on May 6, 2010
Oh. Possibly relevant personal anecdote:
I had a "boyfriend" when I was 11. We mainly chatted over IRC, (I had talked my way into unsupervised internet usage) and I was definitely very fuzzy on what dating meant. We saw each other in person about once a week, and my parents became concerned with how I was allowing him to touch me. They sat me down for a serious talk and explained that is wasn't OK. I was mortified - and also kinda relieved .... I wasn't entirely comfortable with "dating" the guy, and what he thought dating meant. I stood up to him the next time we saw each other in person, and that was that.
Caveats:
• this was just over a decade ago, but I already feel like I grew up in a more innocent time
• sorry, I don't remember what my parents actually said - and there's a good chance they also talked to his parents
• 5 years later, the guy in question wound up being a great boyfriend
So - has your friend sat down with her daughter and bluntly explained "this is not OK"?
posted by Metasyntactic at 8:57 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I had a "boyfriend" when I was 11. We mainly chatted over IRC, (I had talked my way into unsupervised internet usage) and I was definitely very fuzzy on what dating meant. We saw each other in person about once a week, and my parents became concerned with how I was allowing him to touch me. They sat me down for a serious talk and explained that is wasn't OK. I was mortified - and also kinda relieved .... I wasn't entirely comfortable with "dating" the guy, and what he thought dating meant. I stood up to him the next time we saw each other in person, and that was that.
Caveats:
• this was just over a decade ago, but I already feel like I grew up in a more innocent time
• sorry, I don't remember what my parents actually said - and there's a good chance they also talked to his parents
• 5 years later, the guy in question wound up being a great boyfriend
So - has your friend sat down with her daughter and bluntly explained "this is not OK"?
posted by Metasyntactic at 8:57 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
As far as resources and activities, something I liked as a young girl was New Moon magazine, which focused on girl power and self-esteem building. It's targeted to girls ages 8-12. I also enjoyed Girl Scouts, but make sure she finds the right troop. Mine was mostly oriented towards snack time and crafts, nothing really empowering. Girl Scout summer camp, maybe?
Is there a local youth choir she could join?
Finding activities is difficult at that age, especially if the "I'm too cool for this" malaise has already set in. Not to discourage, but it can be really hard to draw a girl out of that mindset once she's decided everything is "dumb" or "for babies." I don't have many suggestions for that, but putting her in a group where there are lot of kids a year or two older than her may help. A youth theatre production might work, where there is a wide age range, focusing on preteen and junior high kids.
It may also be worthwhile to investigate activities with local churches. I participated in a program during the summers where kids would do community volunteer work in the morning, then have a fun activity in the afternoon (like a movie or a waterpark). It was through the local Lutheran church, but it wasn't really heavy on the God stuff. I had a lot of fun doing that, although I was more around 13.
posted by castlebravo at 8:58 PM on May 6, 2010
Is there a local youth choir she could join?
Finding activities is difficult at that age, especially if the "I'm too cool for this" malaise has already set in. Not to discourage, but it can be really hard to draw a girl out of that mindset once she's decided everything is "dumb" or "for babies." I don't have many suggestions for that, but putting her in a group where there are lot of kids a year or two older than her may help. A youth theatre production might work, where there is a wide age range, focusing on preteen and junior high kids.
It may also be worthwhile to investigate activities with local churches. I participated in a program during the summers where kids would do community volunteer work in the morning, then have a fun activity in the afternoon (like a movie or a waterpark). It was through the local Lutheran church, but it wasn't really heavy on the God stuff. I had a lot of fun doing that, although I was more around 13.
posted by castlebravo at 8:58 PM on May 6, 2010
Here's a bunch of free activities your friend's family can do together. It helps if they build some rituals (every Saturday we cook breakfast together) and some goals (in two months we're going camping or driving to a friends place in a nearby state) which gives them something to plan for and look forward to as a family. By doing this, the mom can give the daughter some responsibility for the outcome of the project while teaching her how to plan and achieve goals that impact the whole family.
--bake cookies together
--bake bread together (this is even more cool due to the bread rising)
--read books together
--do crafts together (like making home made cards for grandma's birthday)
--have a slumber party for her and a few girlfriends
--sleep outside in the back yard if they live in a safe area
--pick some flowers and give them to an elderly neighbor
--go play at the local park
--volunteer at the local food bank or nursing home together
--start a small side business at home that the whole family can participate in (hopefully it grows so well that the mom can work from home)
--check out the community calendar in your local paper (most towns/cities have lots of free events and activities for the whole family)
--learn to do something together like knitting or learning Chinese
--play catch together
--mom and daughter can give each other make overs or manicures
The bottom line is it doesn't matter what they do together as long as they spend time together. Teaching the daughter new skills and giving her responsibility will build her self esteem.
posted by MsKim at 9:02 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
--bake cookies together
--bake bread together (this is even more cool due to the bread rising)
--read books together
--do crafts together (like making home made cards for grandma's birthday)
--have a slumber party for her and a few girlfriends
--sleep outside in the back yard if they live in a safe area
--pick some flowers and give them to an elderly neighbor
--go play at the local park
--volunteer at the local food bank or nursing home together
--start a small side business at home that the whole family can participate in (hopefully it grows so well that the mom can work from home)
--check out the community calendar in your local paper (most towns/cities have lots of free events and activities for the whole family)
--learn to do something together like knitting or learning Chinese
--play catch together
--mom and daughter can give each other make overs or manicures
The bottom line is it doesn't matter what they do together as long as they spend time together. Teaching the daughter new skills and giving her responsibility will build her self esteem.
posted by MsKim at 9:02 PM on May 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I got into a similar situation when I was 12, and I would have been grateful, ever so grateful, if an adult had forbidden it.
posted by HotToddy at 9:17 PM on May 6, 2010 [6 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 9:17 PM on May 6, 2010 [6 favorites]
10 year olds are capable enough to learn how to cook simple things - is there maybe a kid's cooking class she could take? Cooking is a skill that's extremely useful, especially in single parent families, she'd probably have a variety of classmates to befriend, she'd learn how to follow directions and receive immediate positive reinforcement, and it would help cement a healthy relationship with food which is becoming more important with young girls by the moment. Cooking is also sufficiently different and universally appealing that she might not turn her nose up at it like a lot of other "creative" sorts of activities where egos tend to run rampant.
Another kind of left-field suggestion is that your friend try giving her daughter more responsibilities. She's the oldest, with a little brother to love and look after. She might be able to stand up to this mean boy and see that what he's doing is disrespectful if she's giving her own actions and choices more consideration and value. Stuff like more important chores, dinner choices (from a list of suggestions), entertainment options for the whole family, setting higher goals for grades in school, anything really where she's pushing herself to become more aware of the consequences of her choices and the power she has in life.
For what it's worth, by the way, a lot of girls are straight up forbidden to "date" until a certain age and they find it a brilliant scapegoat. You can just say that the parents don't allow it, and you're off the hook for not being "cool" enough to have a boyfriend.
posted by Mizu at 9:54 PM on May 6, 2010
Another kind of left-field suggestion is that your friend try giving her daughter more responsibilities. She's the oldest, with a little brother to love and look after. She might be able to stand up to this mean boy and see that what he's doing is disrespectful if she's giving her own actions and choices more consideration and value. Stuff like more important chores, dinner choices (from a list of suggestions), entertainment options for the whole family, setting higher goals for grades in school, anything really where she's pushing herself to become more aware of the consequences of her choices and the power she has in life.
For what it's worth, by the way, a lot of girls are straight up forbidden to "date" until a certain age and they find it a brilliant scapegoat. You can just say that the parents don't allow it, and you're off the hook for not being "cool" enough to have a boyfriend.
posted by Mizu at 9:54 PM on May 6, 2010
Parenting is never a "luxury", it is a "priority"... that's where the change needs to happen...So what, she's supposed to quit her job and move into a homeless shelter?
Anyway, when I was in 5th and 6th grade, kids would "go out" on the school yard. There was drama, but it was totally meaningless (and they didn't "do" anything)
However, someone needs to explain to her that this shouldn't be how a relationship is supposed to work. The mom can ban her from "going out" (or whatever term they use) with this kid without banning her from talking to him.
Hearing about pregnant 12 year-olds isn't that uncommon.*rolls eyes*
posted by delmoi at 11:29 PM on May 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
I also got into a similar situation at that age (5th grade). I broke up with him and was basically being stalked by the guy. I would have been very happy if an adult had noticed what was going on and put a stop to it by sitting us down and talking about it all and making it clear what the rules were because I think the boy would have been fine with that too. He was just a kids, and did not mean to be malicious.
But no one did so one day after school I punched him in the nose and made it bleed dramatically. An inquiry followed. Problem solved.
posted by fshgrl at 12:56 AM on May 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
But no one did so one day after school I punched him in the nose and made it bleed dramatically. An inquiry followed. Problem solved.
posted by fshgrl at 12:56 AM on May 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
OP, are you in a position to have a chat with the girl yourself? After all, the mother does not need to be the only one to set a positive female example.
Also, has your friend talked to the boy's parents yet (or ever)?
posted by Omnomnom at 2:34 AM on May 7, 2010
Also, has your friend talked to the boy's parents yet (or ever)?
posted by Omnomnom at 2:34 AM on May 7, 2010
Single mom of three kids here (and we're all abuse survivors), so maybe I can offer some perspective.
Smaller issue is the 10yo "boyfriend." I wouldn't bother trying to ban the relationship because it has no legs. It should end on its own. And kids that age are filled with drama.
However, this is an absolutely perfect time for your friend to talk with her daughter about what is and isn't okay in a relationship. In a way, she's lucky that her daughter has a nasty BF at this age. So they need to talk, and the daughter, unfortunately, has to come to realize on her own that what this boy is doing isn't okay and she shouldn't be continuing a relationship with him (which will help her throughout life).
Nting what others have said: this kid should NOT be using a cell phone and the computer has to be supervised. That's where the kids get into trouble, so yeah, your friend needs to ban those.
On to her sulking her way through activities: yeah, that's what a lot of pre-teen girls do! The activities may be a bad fit for the kid, the kid might not like the other kids in the class, it could be a lot of things.
But your friend shouldn't give up on activities. Maybe take a break from everything and try new stuff over the summer or in the fall.
At that age, my daughters were pretty prickly about what they considered fun. I'd check into whatever the local Y or recreation center offers, since many local kids also do these activities and she can hang out with those kids.
I wouldn't get too wrapped up in enrolling her in "girl power" stuff; she just needs to hang out with other kids, maybe play some basketball or sport and keep busy.
Lastly, your friend needs to make some more time to hang out with her daughter. As busy as she is (and hey, I get her picture, except I have one more kid than her), all that matters is together time. And she needs to figure out a way to make that happen. The Big Brother/Sister program is great, but the kid needs her mother, not someone else.
posted by dzaz at 3:04 AM on May 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
Smaller issue is the 10yo "boyfriend." I wouldn't bother trying to ban the relationship because it has no legs. It should end on its own. And kids that age are filled with drama.
However, this is an absolutely perfect time for your friend to talk with her daughter about what is and isn't okay in a relationship. In a way, she's lucky that her daughter has a nasty BF at this age. So they need to talk, and the daughter, unfortunately, has to come to realize on her own that what this boy is doing isn't okay and she shouldn't be continuing a relationship with him (which will help her throughout life).
Nting what others have said: this kid should NOT be using a cell phone and the computer has to be supervised. That's where the kids get into trouble, so yeah, your friend needs to ban those.
On to her sulking her way through activities: yeah, that's what a lot of pre-teen girls do! The activities may be a bad fit for the kid, the kid might not like the other kids in the class, it could be a lot of things.
But your friend shouldn't give up on activities. Maybe take a break from everything and try new stuff over the summer or in the fall.
At that age, my daughters were pretty prickly about what they considered fun. I'd check into whatever the local Y or recreation center offers, since many local kids also do these activities and she can hang out with those kids.
I wouldn't get too wrapped up in enrolling her in "girl power" stuff; she just needs to hang out with other kids, maybe play some basketball or sport and keep busy.
Lastly, your friend needs to make some more time to hang out with her daughter. As busy as she is (and hey, I get her picture, except I have one more kid than her), all that matters is together time. And she needs to figure out a way to make that happen. The Big Brother/Sister program is great, but the kid needs her mother, not someone else.
posted by dzaz at 3:04 AM on May 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
I went through some thing similar in elementary school with a controlling friend who was a girl (perhaps people here would be less squicked out if they thought of the boyfriend as a friend who happens to be a boy -- because from the description of the OP that's what it sounds like). My parents did not forbid me from seeing her, but they did encourage (well, maybe force) me to hang out with other kids as well. Does your friend have family friends with kids around the same age? Also, an after school program might be good both for taking up time and for making better friends. I volunteer at a math/science one that's just for girls. There are the sulkers sure, but peer pressure usually makes them participate in the end, and they have fun. Check out your local university or community college to see if they sponsor any after school programs; ours is free. You could also talk to the teacher or school guidance counselor and see what he/she thinks about the problem since it sounds like some of it is happening during school hours when your friend can't really supervise her daughter.
posted by bluefly at 3:38 AM on May 7, 2010
posted by bluefly at 3:38 AM on May 7, 2010
Mizu: Another kind of left-field suggestion is that your friend try giving her daughter more responsibilities. She's the oldest, with a little brother to love and look after.
I wasn't raised by a single mother but my Da was absent a lot and I want to say please, for the love of all that is holy, don't suggest this. Being 'responsible' and 'good' and 'looking after' my siblings featured heavily in the reasons I went off the rails. I wanted, for however long I could swing it, to be alone and not responsible and not the good one or smart one or pestered. I wanted to be a kid but since I'd already been pushed into adult levels of responsibility and interaction, I chose booze and bad men. I was admittedly older but the theme is similar.
Does the daughter read at all? Suggest the Tamora Pierce books if she does - very strong and young female characters who grow and deal with all sorts of shit. Local libraries might be running programs that can help as well. You mention an existing counsellor as well - apart from not laying down any scorched earth tactics, do they have any other concrete advice? I think talking to his parents may help, but may be a whole lotta confrontation too so your friend needs to be prepared for that.
posted by geek anachronism at 3:43 AM on May 7, 2010
I wasn't raised by a single mother but my Da was absent a lot and I want to say please, for the love of all that is holy, don't suggest this. Being 'responsible' and 'good' and 'looking after' my siblings featured heavily in the reasons I went off the rails. I wanted, for however long I could swing it, to be alone and not responsible and not the good one or smart one or pestered. I wanted to be a kid but since I'd already been pushed into adult levels of responsibility and interaction, I chose booze and bad men. I was admittedly older but the theme is similar.
Does the daughter read at all? Suggest the Tamora Pierce books if she does - very strong and young female characters who grow and deal with all sorts of shit. Local libraries might be running programs that can help as well. You mention an existing counsellor as well - apart from not laying down any scorched earth tactics, do they have any other concrete advice? I think talking to his parents may help, but may be a whole lotta confrontation too so your friend needs to be prepared for that.
posted by geek anachronism at 3:43 AM on May 7, 2010
Best answer: My brother was a very sweet, naive kid. He had a manipulative, controlling "girlfriend" when he was 12, and our mom handled it the same way she'd handle seeing any loved one in an unhealthy relationship: he wasn't forbidden to contact the girl, but anytime he'd mention her bad behavior, Mom would say something like "She isn't treating you very well, and I don't like it. You shouldn't put up with it." Whether they know it or not, pre-teens are still hugely influenced by their parents' opinions. Hearing Mom basically say "Hey, I'm aware of what's going on here, and I don't think it's very cool" made my brother rethink the whole relationship pretty quickly.
Now that he's a grown-up with a pretty impressive handle on romantic relationships, my brother is really grateful for the approach our mom took. She didn't treat him like a baby, but she introduced him to the idea that there's a standard of behavior that people need to meet in order to be worthy of having a boyfriend/girlfriend.
Even if your friend can't model a healthy relationship for her daughter, she can still tell her daughter that it isn't right for this kid to treat her disrespectfully.
posted by arianell at 3:58 AM on May 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
Now that he's a grown-up with a pretty impressive handle on romantic relationships, my brother is really grateful for the approach our mom took. She didn't treat him like a baby, but she introduced him to the idea that there's a standard of behavior that people need to meet in order to be worthy of having a boyfriend/girlfriend.
Even if your friend can't model a healthy relationship for her daughter, she can still tell her daughter that it isn't right for this kid to treat her disrespectfully.
posted by arianell at 3:58 AM on May 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
Best answer: I'm going to suggest a couple of book for your friend to get for her daughter. They're not going to help with the mother-daughter thing but they will help with the empowering thing and with any questions she has about puberty and feelings and boys, questions she may not be comfortable talking to her mom about.
It's called The Care and Keeping of You. The other one is called The Feelings Book: The Care and Keeping of Your Emotions.
My ten-year-old daughter has both of them and refers back to them on a regular basis (we bought them for her about a year ago). I gave them to her and told her if she had any questions, she could come to me with them. I knew she was the kind of kid who wouldn't necessarily come to me with body/boy questions (she's shy and while we have a really good relationship, she can be uncomfortable with stuff like this) and I wanted her to have the information from a source I can trust, rather than from her friends.
They're really great books. They're all about giving girls the power to own their bodies and emotions. I'm really glad we gave them to her. Her school started the puberty/changing bodies curriculum this year (4th grade) and she was so happy that she already knew all the stuff they talked about in class.
If your friend can't afford to buy the books, perhaps you could buy them for her daughter. If their relationship is prickly, I would suggest that she not give them to her daughter outright. Have her put them on her bed or where she'll find them quickly, without saying anything about them. Then, a few days later, the mom could casually bring them up during a car ride. My fear is that if the daughter already is on tender ground with her mom, she won't read anything she "tells" her to read.
Anyway, they're great books.
posted by cooker girl at 4:32 AM on May 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
It's called The Care and Keeping of You. The other one is called The Feelings Book: The Care and Keeping of Your Emotions.
My ten-year-old daughter has both of them and refers back to them on a regular basis (we bought them for her about a year ago). I gave them to her and told her if she had any questions, she could come to me with them. I knew she was the kind of kid who wouldn't necessarily come to me with body/boy questions (she's shy and while we have a really good relationship, she can be uncomfortable with stuff like this) and I wanted her to have the information from a source I can trust, rather than from her friends.
They're really great books. They're all about giving girls the power to own their bodies and emotions. I'm really glad we gave them to her. Her school started the puberty/changing bodies curriculum this year (4th grade) and she was so happy that she already knew all the stuff they talked about in class.
If your friend can't afford to buy the books, perhaps you could buy them for her daughter. If their relationship is prickly, I would suggest that she not give them to her daughter outright. Have her put them on her bed or where she'll find them quickly, without saying anything about them. Then, a few days later, the mom could casually bring them up during a car ride. My fear is that if the daughter already is on tender ground with her mom, she won't read anything she "tells" her to read.
Anyway, they're great books.
posted by cooker girl at 4:32 AM on May 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I know it's only in Austin, but I used to be on the board of a charity called GENaustin. It was an organization with after school programs and other things designed to raise the self esteem and awareness in middle school girls so that they can make self-honoring choices.
I haven't been to their website for awhile -- www.genaustin.org -- but it might have resources available to look at.
GENaustin was started after a group of mom's read Reviving Ophelia, which observed the phenomena of plummeting self-esteem of girls of middle school age. I never read it, but it may have helpful tips for your friend.
Also, as you appear to be a very good friend yourself, perhaps you can help your friend's daughter by talking to her and being an unofficial "Big Sister" of sorts. The benefit is that she can't ascribe the parental-discount-factor to you. Could you take her to lunch or some other activity one time a week--just you two?
I know it is a big commitment, but there are very few things that could be more rewarding or important than making a positive impact in a child's life by being a strong role model. She needs it and deserves that kind of love. And your harried and exhausted friend who is doing the best she can under bad circumstances would be forever grateful.
posted by murrey at 4:58 AM on May 7, 2010
I haven't been to their website for awhile -- www.genaustin.org -- but it might have resources available to look at.
GENaustin was started after a group of mom's read Reviving Ophelia, which observed the phenomena of plummeting self-esteem of girls of middle school age. I never read it, but it may have helpful tips for your friend.
Also, as you appear to be a very good friend yourself, perhaps you can help your friend's daughter by talking to her and being an unofficial "Big Sister" of sorts. The benefit is that she can't ascribe the parental-discount-factor to you. Could you take her to lunch or some other activity one time a week--just you two?
I know it is a big commitment, but there are very few things that could be more rewarding or important than making a positive impact in a child's life by being a strong role model. She needs it and deserves that kind of love. And your harried and exhausted friend who is doing the best she can under bad circumstances would be forever grateful.
posted by murrey at 4:58 AM on May 7, 2010
A couple thoughts:
(1) I think the idea of addressing the issue head on is a good one. All the girl-power books and music and movies in the world will not get the message across as clearly as simply telling her, "look, Jimmy telling you you can't talk to other boys and trying to make you feel bad for calling late is not cool, and you don't deserve that." Easier said than done, I know, but she needs to set up a track record of being able to talk directly about what's going on in her daughter's life, even if it results in a lot of "jeez, mom, get out of my business" and eyerolling.
(2) Keep trying with the activities. My dau (now 12) has been in and out of gymnastics at Fairland, for example, for the past 5 years. She'll do a session, get fed up, sit out for a year or two, then do another session... (Fairland, btw, is a nice, affordable, low-key program) A different direction would be something like drama/acting groups or classes, or beginning piano. If she likes singing and pop music, then being able to at least noodle around on a keyboard is a great asset.
posted by drlith at 5:06 AM on May 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
(1) I think the idea of addressing the issue head on is a good one. All the girl-power books and music and movies in the world will not get the message across as clearly as simply telling her, "look, Jimmy telling you you can't talk to other boys and trying to make you feel bad for calling late is not cool, and you don't deserve that." Easier said than done, I know, but she needs to set up a track record of being able to talk directly about what's going on in her daughter's life, even if it results in a lot of "jeez, mom, get out of my business" and eyerolling.
(2) Keep trying with the activities. My dau (now 12) has been in and out of gymnastics at Fairland, for example, for the past 5 years. She'll do a session, get fed up, sit out for a year or two, then do another session... (Fairland, btw, is a nice, affordable, low-key program) A different direction would be something like drama/acting groups or classes, or beginning piano. If she likes singing and pop music, then being able to at least noodle around on a keyboard is a great asset.
posted by drlith at 5:06 AM on May 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
I haven't read through all the answers so I apologize if this has already been suggested, but:
Is it possible for the girl's mom to try to make friends with the boy's mom? My cousin's daughter is only a little bit older and she has a "boyfriend" and the way my cousin handled it was to reach out to the bf's mom and make friends with her. They both communicate about the kids and take them out on "dates" with both families present, like bowling or out to eat Chinese food or the movies....
These kids are young enough so that they can't really do anything without a parent anyway. It's not like the boy is 16 and can come pick her up in his car.... I say spend as much time around the boy as possible, and when he starts acting controlling try and intervene. The kid is young enough that he might still be open to guidance. He hasn't been at it long enough to really develop a serious pattern, like someone above said, he is probably just mirroring behavior he's seen.
posted by cottonswab at 5:30 AM on May 7, 2010
Is it possible for the girl's mom to try to make friends with the boy's mom? My cousin's daughter is only a little bit older and she has a "boyfriend" and the way my cousin handled it was to reach out to the bf's mom and make friends with her. They both communicate about the kids and take them out on "dates" with both families present, like bowling or out to eat Chinese food or the movies....
These kids are young enough so that they can't really do anything without a parent anyway. It's not like the boy is 16 and can come pick her up in his car.... I say spend as much time around the boy as possible, and when he starts acting controlling try and intervene. The kid is young enough that he might still be open to guidance. He hasn't been at it long enough to really develop a serious pattern, like someone above said, he is probably just mirroring behavior he's seen.
posted by cottonswab at 5:30 AM on May 7, 2010
I agree that the 10 year old's mom needs to do something about the conduct of the boyfriend.
However, getting the girl interested in something to boost her self-esteem is also important. You don't want the girl to get into a similar relationship later in life when the mom can't step in to help.
Is the girl motivated by money at all? When I was ten, I was obsessed with money. I had several small businesses that took up a good deal of my time.
I collected cans and sold them to the recycling center, putting recycling bins outside the local store and collecting them twice a week.
I also walked a trusted neighbor's dog every day.
Having my own kid business where I was earning real money gave me tons of confidence and a real feeling of empowerment.
posted by mmmbacon at 5:34 AM on May 7, 2010
However, getting the girl interested in something to boost her self-esteem is also important. You don't want the girl to get into a similar relationship later in life when the mom can't step in to help.
Is the girl motivated by money at all? When I was ten, I was obsessed with money. I had several small businesses that took up a good deal of my time.
I collected cans and sold them to the recycling center, putting recycling bins outside the local store and collecting them twice a week.
I also walked a trusted neighbor's dog every day.
Having my own kid business where I was earning real money gave me tons of confidence and a real feeling of empowerment.
posted by mmmbacon at 5:34 AM on May 7, 2010
Books! There are so many series of books for girls.
Netflix! Nothing like nice upbeat movies at home.
Introducing her to other (nice) girls, organize pajama parties, etc. a good cousin would do, too.
Music, if she likes to sing, she may be interested in playing an instrument, or entering a theater club.
Sports, definitely, particularly team sports.
Being 10 can be a lot of fun, and having a little boyfriend can be cute. But This particular boy, I don't think so. He may be imitating his parents, or TV, either way, he's not a positive influence for this girl, and it would be a really useful lesson for her to learn to pluck out the things in her life that don't make her happy.
Tell your friend to be with her as much as she can, there is nothing like having a mom close to you! Tell her to ask about details, memorize the names of her friends, and be really patient, so the girl will feel she can trust her.
Good luck!
posted by Tarumba at 5:56 AM on May 7, 2010
Netflix! Nothing like nice upbeat movies at home.
Introducing her to other (nice) girls, organize pajama parties, etc. a good cousin would do, too.
Music, if she likes to sing, she may be interested in playing an instrument, or entering a theater club.
Sports, definitely, particularly team sports.
Being 10 can be a lot of fun, and having a little boyfriend can be cute. But This particular boy, I don't think so. He may be imitating his parents, or TV, either way, he's not a positive influence for this girl, and it would be a really useful lesson for her to learn to pluck out the things in her life that don't make her happy.
Tell your friend to be with her as much as she can, there is nothing like having a mom close to you! Tell her to ask about details, memorize the names of her friends, and be really patient, so the girl will feel she can trust her.
Good luck!
posted by Tarumba at 5:56 AM on May 7, 2010
That boy has parents (or parent). Take a walk over there and talk with them. Oh hell no grammar school kid can have a little boyfriend at 10 years old. She can have group of boys and girls who are friends but no one should be "this is my boyfriend and I can only date him." Screw that. She has a lifetime for that kind of crap.
I can't believe the therapist said "no sweeping rules". The kid is 10. She's the parent. Let the kid be mad and pouty. And get that girl into some positive activities. If she goes to school with this kid tell the teacher too since the "breakup" might make him lash out at school. This little @#$# needs to learn the hard way you don't treat others this way. And defiantely get his parent(s) involved. And if they get mad, accusatory, F them. This is that little girl's future and I'm sure the mom doesn't want her to make the same mistakes/put up with the junk she did. Ten is way too old to have anyone control you in that manner.
posted by stormpooper at 6:25 AM on May 7, 2010
I can't believe the therapist said "no sweeping rules". The kid is 10. She's the parent. Let the kid be mad and pouty. And get that girl into some positive activities. If she goes to school with this kid tell the teacher too since the "breakup" might make him lash out at school. This little @#$# needs to learn the hard way you don't treat others this way. And defiantely get his parent(s) involved. And if they get mad, accusatory, F them. This is that little girl's future and I'm sure the mom doesn't want her to make the same mistakes/put up with the junk she did. Ten is way too old to have anyone control you in that manner.
posted by stormpooper at 6:25 AM on May 7, 2010
Best answer: I got into a similar situation when I was 12, and I would have been grateful, ever so grateful, if an adult had forbidden it.
I understand that your friend does not want to outright forbid her daughter from "dating" this boy. But perhaps the girl would be receptive to this idea: tell her that if she is uncomfortable about any situation with the boy, now or in the future, that she can always tell him that her mother has forbidden it.
Yes, it's condoning lying. But it's also letting her make her own decision, while providing an "out" for her that allows her to avoid a confrontation that may be incredibly scary to her.
As for activities to get involved in... I was a latch key kid at that age (with a 14 year old sister), and I hated everything that my mom tried to involve me in. Didn't matter what it was. I don't know why. I only tell you this to prepare you for the same reaction from your friend's daughter. I wish you the best of luck.
posted by wwartorff at 7:04 AM on May 7, 2010
I understand that your friend does not want to outright forbid her daughter from "dating" this boy. But perhaps the girl would be receptive to this idea: tell her that if she is uncomfortable about any situation with the boy, now or in the future, that she can always tell him that her mother has forbidden it.
Yes, it's condoning lying. But it's also letting her make her own decision, while providing an "out" for her that allows her to avoid a confrontation that may be incredibly scary to her.
As for activities to get involved in... I was a latch key kid at that age (with a 14 year old sister), and I hated everything that my mom tried to involve me in. Didn't matter what it was. I don't know why. I only tell you this to prepare you for the same reaction from your friend's daughter. I wish you the best of luck.
posted by wwartorff at 7:04 AM on May 7, 2010
Sorry, but a sweeping rule is just what this situation needs.
No cell-phones or dating for the precocious, drama-queen 10 year old.
posted by General Tonic at 7:09 AM on May 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
No cell-phones or dating for the precocious, drama-queen 10 year old.
posted by General Tonic at 7:09 AM on May 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
But perhaps the girl would be receptive to this idea: tell her that if she is uncomfortable about any situation with the boy, now or in the future, that she can always tell him that her mother has forbidden it.
For whatever it's worth, I had that deal with my Mom growing up: any time something made me uncomfortable I would say that my Mom was really, really, really mean and she wouldn't let me do it. Sometimes I would even say she spies on me to catch me if I disobey. She would always play along if asked about it or if the situation otherwise came up. This got me out of a bunch of sticky situations, ranging from fairly innocuous I-just-didn't-wanna, to fairly dangerous situations later in my teenage years. Not only did it help me out, it really reinforced that Mom had my back.
posted by bunnycup at 7:12 AM on May 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
For whatever it's worth, I had that deal with my Mom growing up: any time something made me uncomfortable I would say that my Mom was really, really, really mean and she wouldn't let me do it. Sometimes I would even say she spies on me to catch me if I disobey. She would always play along if asked about it or if the situation otherwise came up. This got me out of a bunch of sticky situations, ranging from fairly innocuous I-just-didn't-wanna, to fairly dangerous situations later in my teenage years. Not only did it help me out, it really reinforced that Mom had my back.
posted by bunnycup at 7:12 AM on May 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
Wow. This situation is very scary to me. It sounds like the girl needs to get out of the house and away from the phone/internet AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. For example, maybe some mother/daughter weekend camping trips or soccer tournaments that take up a whole weekend. If she's geographically disconnected, it won't be necessary to make sweeping communications rules. Plus, it would be great bonding time for mom and daughter.
posted by jrichards at 8:33 AM on May 7, 2010
posted by jrichards at 8:33 AM on May 7, 2010
Sweeping generalizations and blanket rules are NOT helpful for older teens, who need to be handled with much more subtlety. However, this girl is just ten years old.
Sorry, but 'dating' or being in any form of 'relationship' at this age is very unhealthy. The girl is being emotionally bullied.
If the girl was being physically bullied or being used by another kid, would you (the parent) say, "okay, let's try do some girl-power type activities to boost your self esteem." No, because you would go out to the school and sort this matter out on her behalf.
Your friend should say NO on behalf of her daughter, who is unable to say NO for herself. This is what parents are for -- to protect and defend you when you can't defend yourself.
posted by moiraine at 9:45 AM on May 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Sorry, but 'dating' or being in any form of 'relationship' at this age is very unhealthy. The girl is being emotionally bullied.
If the girl was being physically bullied or being used by another kid, would you (the parent) say, "okay, let's try do some girl-power type activities to boost your self esteem." No, because you would go out to the school and sort this matter out on her behalf.
Your friend should say NO on behalf of her daughter, who is unable to say NO for herself. This is what parents are for -- to protect and defend you when you can't defend yourself.
posted by moiraine at 9:45 AM on May 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
If there is a 'rock camp for girls' in your area I highly suggest she try to get her daughter enrolled. They often offer lowered fees or assistance to families who can't afford it, and it is an empowering week run by strong independent women. Roller derby games could be a good mother/daughter activity, as could reading books together about strong girls.
I also agree thought that this type of relationship sounds way out of hand for that age. I think strict rules need to be enforced, coupled with communicative conversations discussing respect, dating, relationships, and other age appropriate subjects.
posted by whalebreath at 1:09 PM on May 7, 2010
I also agree thought that this type of relationship sounds way out of hand for that age. I think strict rules need to be enforced, coupled with communicative conversations discussing respect, dating, relationships, and other age appropriate subjects.
posted by whalebreath at 1:09 PM on May 7, 2010
Does the girl even like this guy? She might be feeling pressure from the boy and her friends to keep "going out" with him. The girl might be relieved if her mom intervened and told her she couldn't talk to/text the boy on the phone anymore.
Can the mom take some time to talk with her daughter about this? She should assure her daughter that she can always use her as an excuse (Oh, my mom won't let me have a boyfriend, I'm not allowed to talk on the phone after a certain time, etc).
I would say that the one rule of the house should be that the girl isn't allowed to have a boyfriend who mistreats her. I'm not sure how enforceable this type of rule would be, but it would let the girl know she is loved and deserves to be treated well. The mom could stress that she will always be there to protect the daughter and that if she's ever in trouble that the mom and her could work together to figure out a solution.
posted by parakeetdog at 1:25 PM on May 7, 2010
Can the mom take some time to talk with her daughter about this? She should assure her daughter that she can always use her as an excuse (Oh, my mom won't let me have a boyfriend, I'm not allowed to talk on the phone after a certain time, etc).
I would say that the one rule of the house should be that the girl isn't allowed to have a boyfriend who mistreats her. I'm not sure how enforceable this type of rule would be, but it would let the girl know she is loved and deserves to be treated well. The mom could stress that she will always be there to protect the daughter and that if she's ever in trouble that the mom and her could work together to figure out a solution.
posted by parakeetdog at 1:25 PM on May 7, 2010
Echoing the Big Brothers/Big Sisters suggestion. It's free, best-case scenario, they will match her up with someone with similar interests, she'll get to do a lot of activities with her "Big" one-on-one as well as with larger groups of children enrolled in the program. I always made sure to take my "little" to the bowling parties, hayrides and other activities so the kid could meet others her age. Young kids, especially girls, get matched pretty quickly depending on your region. Ten is about an ideal age for her to get involved.
posted by vincele at 4:02 AM on May 8, 2010
posted by vincele at 4:02 AM on May 8, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks again for all of the helpful answers -- it's given me a lot of great ideas. Here's what I've done so far:
- printed out the enrollment forms for Big Sisters (can't believe I didn't think of it before; I've been a Big Sister myself for 6 years)
- lent my friend my copies of "How to Say It to Girls" and "Reviving Ophelia," with relevant sections bookmarked since she's not a strong reader
- favorited the website for the Girls Rock camp in DC and am keeping an eye out for when applications are posted -- this is such a cool program, super excited about this one!
- offered to my friend to spend time with her daughter myself, and to keep her son for her so that she can spend more one-on-one time with her daughter too
When my friend and I get a chance to talk more in depth -- easier said than done with 4
children between us -- I'm going to share more of the ideas and insight from this thread. Thanks again.
posted by justonegirl at 10:50 AM on May 8, 2010
- printed out the enrollment forms for Big Sisters (can't believe I didn't think of it before; I've been a Big Sister myself for 6 years)
- lent my friend my copies of "How to Say It to Girls" and "Reviving Ophelia," with relevant sections bookmarked since she's not a strong reader
- favorited the website for the Girls Rock camp in DC and am keeping an eye out for when applications are posted -- this is such a cool program, super excited about this one!
- offered to my friend to spend time with her daughter myself, and to keep her son for her so that she can spend more one-on-one time with her daughter too
When my friend and I get a chance to talk more in depth -- easier said than done with 4
children between us -- I'm going to share more of the ideas and insight from this thread. Thanks again.
posted by justonegirl at 10:50 AM on May 8, 2010
One other thing that will help them both is if the mother has role models for parenting teens she can turn to. Do you know any other parents of teen girl you can introduce her to? In my area there are free informal parent groups organized by the public health department. Even treating your friend to a cooking class for her birthday where you know most other participants are mothers would expand her network. The daughter needs support, but the mother especially needs support to be the best parent she can be despite all the [unfair] challenges she has.
posted by saucysault at 9:05 AM on May 10, 2010
posted by saucysault at 9:05 AM on May 10, 2010
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Just wanted to pipe in and say that I work with kids, and 10 is either 4th or 5th grade which is pretty young for a boyfriend. I don't think many boys and girls this young are dating.
Normally I wouldn't suggest this, but why doesn't the mother take away the daughter's phone/internet (temporarily) and tell her she can't date until middle school/high school/a certain age?
Also, I work at Boys and Girls Club and run a program called SMART Girls. Every program varies slightly from club to club, but it mainly focuses on self-esteem and healthy relationships. Maybe enroll her in that? I think having women around that she feels comfortable talking to besides her mom is a positive thing, so just try to have a open and communicative (non-judgmental) relationship with the girl.
posted by too bad you're not me at 6:40 PM on May 6, 2010 [11 favorites]