25 cm of fresh powder was totally worth it. I hope.
April 15, 2010 8:58 PM Subscribe
You are not a physiotherapist filter: Did I seriously fuck up my knee?
So, Easter weekend I hit the slopes for some skiing, and got the usual bruises, strained muscles, and crash lands. No surprise there!
However, some time on the last day I manage to wrench my right knee pretty hard. Nothing broken, nothing dislocated, but ow. I walked with a limp for a day or two because I couldn't put my weight on my leg without pain, could not stretch it out fully nor bend it completely (ie. back of calf touching bottom of thighs, e.g crouching) without pain.
Now, I can walk easily, I can jog, although I'm trying to limit impact on the knee so I try not to jog/run (did it once or twice to make sure I could, but have been keeping off mostly now). Walking can feel like everything's normal to a little weird--not quite pain, just odd and a little tight. The joint itself feels a little tight at times, but nothing hugely bad. I do notice I still can't crouch and put my full weight on that leg while in said crouch without feeling muscle weakness/slight pain/general uncomfortableness. Extending it out fully, to the very furthest of how far my leg can flex, also brings back a little bit of that uncomfortable/weak feeling.
So, is this worth worrying about? I tend to heal on the slow side, but usually sprains and such won't bother me at this point unless I've re-injured it, which I've taken care not to do. Do knees just heal slower than usual, and therefore even slower for me with my bad healing? Or should I hi thee to a physiotherapist once exams are over? Not sure if my school insurance covers physio, but I will if I have to.
Thanks in advance! (Early 20s female student, if that is relevant.)
So, Easter weekend I hit the slopes for some skiing, and got the usual bruises, strained muscles, and crash lands. No surprise there!
However, some time on the last day I manage to wrench my right knee pretty hard. Nothing broken, nothing dislocated, but ow. I walked with a limp for a day or two because I couldn't put my weight on my leg without pain, could not stretch it out fully nor bend it completely (ie. back of calf touching bottom of thighs, e.g crouching) without pain.
Now, I can walk easily, I can jog, although I'm trying to limit impact on the knee so I try not to jog/run (did it once or twice to make sure I could, but have been keeping off mostly now). Walking can feel like everything's normal to a little weird--not quite pain, just odd and a little tight. The joint itself feels a little tight at times, but nothing hugely bad. I do notice I still can't crouch and put my full weight on that leg while in said crouch without feeling muscle weakness/slight pain/general uncomfortableness. Extending it out fully, to the very furthest of how far my leg can flex, also brings back a little bit of that uncomfortable/weak feeling.
So, is this worth worrying about? I tend to heal on the slow side, but usually sprains and such won't bother me at this point unless I've re-injured it, which I've taken care not to do. Do knees just heal slower than usual, and therefore even slower for me with my bad healing? Or should I hi thee to a physiotherapist once exams are over? Not sure if my school insurance covers physio, but I will if I have to.
Thanks in advance! (Early 20s female student, if that is relevant.)
Physio's a great idea if you can get to see one. Most likely they'll recommend some exercises so you can be sure your musculature is supporting any injury you have . They'll also do a quick check to make sure you didnt' tear something really badly.
In the meantime, many young women (myself included, less on the young now but still) have a strength imbalance between hamstrings and quads. When I met (once) with a pt person after I wrenched my knee, she highly suggested I do body weight squats (watch your form, knees dont' go past feet! Look it up online if you're not sure!) to mitigate the imbalance and make further injury less likely. I noticed it made the already-wrenched knee feel better too.
posted by nat at 9:19 PM on April 15, 2010
In the meantime, many young women (myself included, less on the young now but still) have a strength imbalance between hamstrings and quads. When I met (once) with a pt person after I wrenched my knee, she highly suggested I do body weight squats (watch your form, knees dont' go past feet! Look it up online if you're not sure!) to mitigate the imbalance and make further injury less likely. I noticed it made the already-wrenched knee feel better too.
posted by nat at 9:19 PM on April 15, 2010
It could be a torn meniscus (for which I've just had surgery). That happens often when people squat/bend/twist, and can feel like what you've described. That's just one possibility, but a very common one. In any case, if you do see a doctor they will most likely tell you to do RICE: rest, ice, compression (Ace bandage wrap) and elevation (higher than the level of your heart). This is all to decrease swelling. Swelling is the enemy. Taking a NSAID like Ibuprofen is also a good idea, but not too much because it's bad for your stomach and liver. So is staying off it as much as possible until it feels better, with gentle movement (a stationary bike is good) to maintain range of motion. Even if it is a torn meniscus or some other kind of injury, treatment depends on how much it is bothering you. If RICE doesn't help and it continues to be a problem, you would probably get an MRI done and look into surgery. I had my injury about 10 years ago and have had problems ever since, but was finally bothered enough to get surgery. If an MRI is covered by your insurance, I would have that done just to figure out what's wrong. But really, the most important thing you can do right now is RICE.
posted by Dilemma at 9:23 PM on April 15, 2010
posted by Dilemma at 9:23 PM on April 15, 2010
It hasn't been as long as you think it's been. Give it more time and stop bouncing around on it.
posted by hermitosis at 9:55 PM on April 15, 2010
posted by hermitosis at 9:55 PM on April 15, 2010
Did it happen during a fall? If so, did your bindings release on that side when you hit the ground? If your foot didn't pop free, or if the injury was a twist or pivot thing, it is a perfect situation to end up with a stretched or torn anterior cruciate ligament.
ACL injury
Here are a couple of ways to figure out whether it's an ACL tear.
- When you are walking, do you have sudden and disproportionate pain when stepping down (e.g., as if leaving a curb to cross a street)?
- Did you have immediate swelling?
- You mention pain on stretching the joint under a load (crouching) but you don't say anything about a loss of your lifting power on that side. Try a knee extension test at the gym -- but get someone to spot you.
- Search for "Lachman test" or "Anterior drawer test" on YouTube for another test. I don't recommend you do that without your doctor or physio, but it's something to ask for when you go in.
Meniscus injury
One major sign you'd notice with a meniscal tear is a tendency for the affected knee to lock while bent. It doesn't always happen, but if it does, you tore that sucker.
You should go get it checked right away if you think you've torn anything, or you can set yourself up for permanent disability. The weakness is the sign that would worry me. Does Vancouver have an urgent sports injury assessment clinic? There's one in Calgary, but your injury is already too old for them.
I am not a doctor, but I do have some knees.
posted by Sallyfur at 9:59 PM on April 15, 2010
ACL injury
Here are a couple of ways to figure out whether it's an ACL tear.
- When you are walking, do you have sudden and disproportionate pain when stepping down (e.g., as if leaving a curb to cross a street)?
- Did you have immediate swelling?
- You mention pain on stretching the joint under a load (crouching) but you don't say anything about a loss of your lifting power on that side. Try a knee extension test at the gym -- but get someone to spot you.
- Search for "Lachman test" or "Anterior drawer test" on YouTube for another test. I don't recommend you do that without your doctor or physio, but it's something to ask for when you go in.
Meniscus injury
One major sign you'd notice with a meniscal tear is a tendency for the affected knee to lock while bent. It doesn't always happen, but if it does, you tore that sucker.
You should go get it checked right away if you think you've torn anything, or you can set yourself up for permanent disability. The weakness is the sign that would worry me. Does Vancouver have an urgent sports injury assessment clinic? There's one in Calgary, but your injury is already too old for them.
I am not a doctor, but I do have some knees.
posted by Sallyfur at 9:59 PM on April 15, 2010
You might have strained your ACL, it's a very common skiing injury. It takes a long time to heal, and can lead to longer term problems if you don't rehabilitate yourself slowly enough, or quickly enough.
If you plan on getting a lot years out of your knee, a visit to a sports therapist might be a good plan.
posted by yohko at 10:03 PM on April 15, 2010
If you plan on getting a lot years out of your knee, a visit to a sports therapist might be a good plan.
posted by yohko at 10:03 PM on April 15, 2010
I recently injured my knee (not in the same manner but with similar sorts of symptoms). In my case, I was pretty sure I didn't damage the ACL because there was no "pop" but it was very clear that instant that I did Something Bad and the next day it was stiff, hurt and a bit swollen and, since I am a wimp and have decent health insurance, I went off to get it checked.
It was initially diagnosed as a medial meniscus tear for which I was prescribed the RICE routine which I followed religiously for 4 days. A follow-up with an ortho and an MRI revealed an articular cartilage tear (no meniscus damage). Nothing to be done right now but I'm glad I did the follow up because now I know where the damage is and very specifically how to avoid aggravating it so I can postpone the kind of surgery described with words like "clean it out". If you can, get it checked out and if not, maybe try to stay off it more for a while to let it heal - the knee seems like something not to be messed with.
posted by marylynn at 10:20 PM on April 15, 2010
It was initially diagnosed as a medial meniscus tear for which I was prescribed the RICE routine which I followed religiously for 4 days. A follow-up with an ortho and an MRI revealed an articular cartilage tear (no meniscus damage). Nothing to be done right now but I'm glad I did the follow up because now I know where the damage is and very specifically how to avoid aggravating it so I can postpone the kind of surgery described with words like "clean it out". If you can, get it checked out and if not, maybe try to stay off it more for a while to let it heal - the knee seems like something not to be messed with.
posted by marylynn at 10:20 PM on April 15, 2010
A few years ago, I tore my ACL playing basketball, and I went through the whole reconstruction surgery and all that jazz. I can describe what the initial injury felt like for you.
As the injury happened, I knew something was extremely wrong because I felt my knee momentarily bend sideways and then right itself. Needless to say, I fell afterward and spent a few minutes on the ground. When I stood up, I knew immediately that I'd done something bad. My knee felt loose, like the bottom half of my leg was swinging much more freely than it had been a few minutes earlier. I had almost immediate swelling which continued over the next few hours until I had a pint of fluid in my knee (doctor's estimate). I had to wait about three weeks to have surgery, and during that time I could never straighten my leg fully, but the pain subsided for the most part, except for stepping downward as someone mentioned above.
If any of this sounds familiar, I'd talk to an orthopedist, who will probably want an MRI. If something's torn, you could be doing serious damage to cartilage by not getting it checked out and fixed. From your description though, it doesn't seem like you have a serious tear.
posted by hoperaiseshell at 10:49 PM on April 15, 2010
As the injury happened, I knew something was extremely wrong because I felt my knee momentarily bend sideways and then right itself. Needless to say, I fell afterward and spent a few minutes on the ground. When I stood up, I knew immediately that I'd done something bad. My knee felt loose, like the bottom half of my leg was swinging much more freely than it had been a few minutes earlier. I had almost immediate swelling which continued over the next few hours until I had a pint of fluid in my knee (doctor's estimate). I had to wait about three weeks to have surgery, and during that time I could never straighten my leg fully, but the pain subsided for the most part, except for stepping downward as someone mentioned above.
If any of this sounds familiar, I'd talk to an orthopedist, who will probably want an MRI. If something's torn, you could be doing serious damage to cartilage by not getting it checked out and fixed. From your description though, it doesn't seem like you have a serious tear.
posted by hoperaiseshell at 10:49 PM on April 15, 2010
Response by poster: Wow, thanks for the responses everyone.
I honestly don't recall the exact circumstances in which I got the injury; I hadn't skiied for a while so I was prone to a few messy wipe-outs at first, and nearing the end of the day, when I was exhausted and everything hurt, I definitely wiped out even more due to lack of control. I don't even remember the particular fall that caused the injury; I just remember vaguely the next morning that my knee wasn't too happy with me.
Apparently my insurance does cover physio and athletic therapy, the same amount per year (which isn't a whole lot)...would there be a difference whether I look up an athletic therapist or a physiotherapist at this point? And is the whole thing too late since I already delayed a week and a half, and will probably take a while to get an appointment?
Thanks again, everyone.
posted by Hakaisha at 10:57 PM on April 15, 2010
I honestly don't recall the exact circumstances in which I got the injury; I hadn't skiied for a while so I was prone to a few messy wipe-outs at first, and nearing the end of the day, when I was exhausted and everything hurt, I definitely wiped out even more due to lack of control. I don't even remember the particular fall that caused the injury; I just remember vaguely the next morning that my knee wasn't too happy with me.
Apparently my insurance does cover physio and athletic therapy, the same amount per year (which isn't a whole lot)...would there be a difference whether I look up an athletic therapist or a physiotherapist at this point? And is the whole thing too late since I already delayed a week and a half, and will probably take a while to get an appointment?
Thanks again, everyone.
posted by Hakaisha at 10:57 PM on April 15, 2010
Response by poster: For the record: I definitely don't recall anything as serious as what hoperaiseshell described. There was swelling, stiffness in the joint, pain when I put weight on it (stairs were interesting for a few days), and the limited range of motion, for both squatting and extending leg while sitting down. That's about it. Most of these have improved somewhat over the week and a half period to varying degrees, but the knee still twinges. Some times walking feels like normal, some times it feels odd and stiff and generally twinges. I have noticed sometimes it's a little harder to release the leg while it's bent, although I chalked that up to my bad habit of sitting with that leg tucked beneath me when it's already injured (a habit rapidly being kicked now).
I didn't do much care for it when I first injured it; spent so much time at school that I never even iced it. Kind of regretting that now...
posted by Hakaisha at 11:02 PM on April 15, 2010
I didn't do much care for it when I first injured it; spent so much time at school that I never even iced it. Kind of regretting that now...
posted by Hakaisha at 11:02 PM on April 15, 2010
There is a little ligament in the back of your knee called the popliteal (attached to a muscle of the same name) and when I damaged mine I had remarkably similar symptoms. I think if you damage one you damage the other a bit too because of how they work together. It is notoriously slow to heal and PT definitely helps as they can do some massage to clear up the muscle injury part and allow the ligament to heal. A lot of PTs don't know much about it so if you go in I'd ask right away if they think that's the issue and if they've ever dealt with it before.
A lot of people have asymptomatic meniscal tears (I did) and I ended up having an unecssary surgery to work on the meniscus when the popliteal was the problem all along.
I'd describe the symptoms as tightness in the back of the knee, a "weird" unstable feeling when I walk, pain on extension, inability to fully bend it and inability to bear weight on the leg bent at a certain point (fine above and below that point). It feels a bit like there is a bump back there too. It never really hurts though.
posted by fshgrl at 11:11 PM on April 15, 2010
A lot of people have asymptomatic meniscal tears (I did) and I ended up having an unecssary surgery to work on the meniscus when the popliteal was the problem all along.
I'd describe the symptoms as tightness in the back of the knee, a "weird" unstable feeling when I walk, pain on extension, inability to fully bend it and inability to bear weight on the leg bent at a certain point (fine above and below that point). It feels a bit like there is a bump back there too. It never really hurts though.
posted by fshgrl at 11:11 PM on April 15, 2010
If you blow your ACL you'll know it. The pain for me was excruciating.
But you need to go see a doctor. Because you might have weakened it, or the other ligaments around it, and you're just one awkward turn or trip away from having the whole thing blow out. And you don't want this.
posted by bardic at 12:56 AM on April 16, 2010
But you need to go see a doctor. Because you might have weakened it, or the other ligaments around it, and you're just one awkward turn or trip away from having the whole thing blow out. And you don't want this.
posted by bardic at 12:56 AM on April 16, 2010
I have had an acl tear.
IF you have torn your acl you would not be able to jog on it you would go to run and your leg would turn to jello and it would buckle. You could have torn cartilidge
posted by majortom1981 at 4:20 AM on April 16, 2010
IF you have torn your acl you would not be able to jog on it you would go to run and your leg would turn to jello and it would buckle. You could have torn cartilidge
posted by majortom1981 at 4:20 AM on April 16, 2010
I have a torn ACL and I can jog (though not more than 2 miles and never too fast.)
posted by Obscure Reference at 4:26 AM on April 16, 2010
posted by Obscure Reference at 4:26 AM on April 16, 2010
I would use that insurance and get it checked out. I have seen more than a couple people who completely tore their acl and didn't know it. If this is the case, you'll want to know so that you can take appropriate precautions or look into other options.
posted by jennyjenny at 5:10 AM on April 16, 2010
posted by jennyjenny at 5:10 AM on April 16, 2010
Try massaging points in the biceps femoris muscle - triggerpointbook.com
posted by Not Supplied at 5:42 AM on April 16, 2010
posted by Not Supplied at 5:42 AM on April 16, 2010
Try massaging points in the biceps femoris muscle - triggerpointbook.com
Interesting. And better yet, my public library has a copy. So for free, I'm going to try it. Just thought I would mention that in case it helps someone else.
posted by CathyG at 6:49 AM on April 16, 2010
Interesting. And better yet, my public library has a copy. So for free, I'm going to try it. Just thought I would mention that in case it helps someone else.
posted by CathyG at 6:49 AM on April 16, 2010
If you're coming up on two weeks since this happened, and if it was minor then by the end of next week you should have zero problems. It sounds like you may need to go see a PT for a real diagnosis.
For reference:
tendon = muscle-to-bone
ligament = bone-to-bone
posted by P.o.B. at 2:52 PM on April 16, 2010
For reference:
tendon = muscle-to-bone
ligament = bone-to-bone
posted by P.o.B. at 2:52 PM on April 16, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
FWIW, if something feels like it's wrong, it is.
posted by nathancaswell at 9:08 PM on April 15, 2010