How does an Atheist nicely tell religious parents to stop with their propaganda?

April 2, 2010 7:41 AM

As an atheist, how do I (kindly) respond to people who force religion on me?

I have been a staunch atheist from a very young age. I am a respectful, intelligent, and loving person, and I think that declaring that I do not believe in God has made me a better person. Here's my question - as well read as I am in Dawkins, Hitchens, etc. etc. I do not know how to kindly or gently respond to people when they find out that I'm an atheist. For example, my mom and my sister basically freaked out and have been flooding my inbox with all sorts of propaganda-type emails that don't even read in complete sentences or make sense whatsoever. How do I gently get them to stop? Per my mom, I'm supposed to believe in God because I was baptized, confirmed, yaddayadda. There are horrific arguments in my mind. I'm not looking to debate or argue with them. I just want them to stop telling me to pray when I'm upset and to stop pushing their beliefs on me. It's obnoxious and is making me really upset.

posted by floweredfish to Religion & Philosophy (45 answers total)

How are you currently reacting when they say these things to you?

As for the emails, I'd just set up a filter or delete them.
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:43 AM on April 2, 2010

"Thanks Mom, you know I love you, and I know you're doing this to save me from a fiery eternity with Iblis, but I'm not changing my mind about this, so maybe we can just agree to disagree, OK?"
posted by orthogonality at 7:45 AM on April 2, 2010

Response by poster: I'd like to add that I've been trying to react as calmly as possible and to gently say that I do not share their beliefs. Both my mom and sister are ultra-dramatic and are screamers and guilt-trippers, so it's really them who are freaking out. Apparently telling them that I choose not to believe in God and do not prioritize things the same way as them is not sufficient. I just want them to stop telling me to pray for this and pray for that and God-God-Goddity God. *sigh*.
posted by floweredfish at 7:45 AM on April 2, 2010

Often the best response to something like this is no response.
posted by caddis at 7:47 AM on April 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

Just say, sweetly, "Oh, no thank you" and nothing else over and over and over again when told to pray. Ignore the emails.
posted by JanetLand at 7:47 AM on April 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

From their perspective, if they don't convince you to believe in God you're going to hell so they consider themselves justified in all sorts of outlandish behavior. Convince them that their current methods, rather than driving you towards God, are driving you away from it, and you should hopefully see that behavior decrease.

Of course, this creates a whole new set of problems where you imply that, in principle, you can be persuaded and they just have to find the right way to reach you. Depending on how religious they are, it may be impossible for you to convince them to leave you alone, since they think that your eternal soul is at stake, etc etc, and it doesn't matter what you think they're going to keep on doing it. If that's the case, then you need to figure out a forum where they can try to convince you, occasionally, that doesn't consistently annoy you.
posted by scrutiny at 7:49 AM on April 2, 2010

I'd respond the same way you'd respond on any touchy issue that you'll never see eye to eye on (politics, gay marriage, etc): politely decline any debate. Don't engage. Kindly and politely leave the room/end the call/whatever if you have to. They'll learn that if they want to enjoy your company, they need to avoid the topic. Basic animal training, really.
posted by availablelight at 7:50 AM on April 2, 2010 [16 favorites]

I recommend being courteous and as kind as possible, but firm -- filter the emails and refuse to discuss religious matters with family members, say "thank you, but I am not interested" to strangers, and so on. Draw your line in the sand and maintain it.

Now, it is possible you are seething inside, and that is a slightly different question. I do not engage with my family on these topics, but it still gets my goat from time to time -- I try to keep my outward self civil, and I really work on not grasping at the negative feelings. I have too much other business to carry to waste my "emotional load-bearing capacity" on this sort of thing. But that means I have to let go of my own investment in being right. Disengagement means I don't try and convert them, either, or worry too much about who is right or wrong (especially on an emotional level).
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:52 AM on April 2, 2010

No thanks, I'm good.
posted by Neekee at 7:52 AM on April 2, 2010

Here's an idea: if you go to Leil Lowndes's How to Talk to Anyone on Amazon and search for "gala," you'll get to her tip #35 (pg. 130): "How to respond when you don't want to answer (and wish they'd shut the heck up)." It's a very brief 2-page chapter explaining her "broken record" technique. She recommends repeating your lack of interest in discussing the matter, calmly and in the exact same words and tone of voice every time (not changing your emphasis as if you were an actor showing off how many different interpretations you could put on a single line). Why not try that? Just have a calm, non-argumentative, one-sentence statement of your atheism planned. Whatever they say to you, respond with that. Same approach you might take if someone kept insisting that you must try this fabulous dish at a restaurant, when you're simply not interested and are going to order something else.
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:53 AM on April 2, 2010 [6 favorites]

The only thing that has worked for me with relatives is to ask if it's more important to them to talk to me about religion than it is to talk to me at all. Said kindly, of course, but with a steady gaze and no ands, ifs or buts.

It may take a bit of repetition the first time, and you may get some injured looks for a bit after, but it works (or at least it has on three different occasions for me).
posted by Pragmatica at 7:53 AM on April 2, 2010 [4 favorites]

If you get someone asking you to pray for someone in a difficult situation (illness, tragedy, etc.) and you want to respond go with something like "my heart goes out to them and their family and I will keep them in my thoughts." This is the standard non-praying response.

I'd go ahead and ignore the flood of emails and continue your calm manor whenever you choose to respond to something.
posted by mikepop at 7:54 AM on April 2, 2010

Seconding filtering and deleting (or storing unread in a folder) the whacked-out emails you get (from anyone, not just your family).

You can tell them that you will not read or respond to emails like this. Then do that. If the conversations take place in person or on the phone, tell them that you don't want to discuss this with them - since they can't do it calmly - and if they continue to bring it up, you'll leave/hang up. Then do that. Setting boundaries and maintaining them is good for all kinds of situations.
posted by rtha at 7:54 AM on April 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

Ignore the e/mails, in fact, let them know that you find them a bit off-putting and, if need be you'll just block their addresses if it continues and you have to screen for this stuff.

In person, say no thanks, if they continue, leave with no further words.

They have a problem, you don't need to participate.
posted by HuronBob at 7:55 AM on April 2, 2010

I think it's more training yourself how to stop getting so angry than it has to do with how you respond. It sounds like you're polite, but that the suggestion you pray really bothers you.

I try to make offers to pray, etc., equate to offers for food I don't like. I don't get angry with someone who offers me lamb or sushi, and since praying (in my belief system) has about as much affect on the universe as a maki roll, I try to keep them on the same level, internal reaction-wise. It doesn't always work, but it keeps it in perspective for me.
posted by xingcat at 7:56 AM on April 2, 2010 [4 favorites]

Is this a recent revelation to your family? You say you've been an atheist for a long time, but it's not clear how long they've known. If it's news to them, I say give it some time. Continue to be patient and stop responding (definitely stop responding to emails) unless you want to occasionally say something like, "I respect your beliefs and now I'm asking you to respect mine." This only works, of course, if you sincerely do respect their rights to have their own beliefs, which is seems like you do.
If it's not a news flash, then it may be time to sit down and have a firmly worded conversation about how their behavior is making you want to avoid them, etc. etc.
posted by purpletangerine at 7:56 AM on April 2, 2010

Both my mom and sister are ultra-dramatic and are screamers and guilt-trippers

Well, how do you currently react to their drama? Just do something similar in terms of the religious stuff, while realizing it's coming from a place of love on their part, so hopefully that'll give you a bit of compassion for their feelings.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:57 AM on April 2, 2010

I agree with JanetLand - a simple direct answer over and over. Ignore/filter emails. Don't put more effort into this than they are; arguing/debating back and forth just lets them think there is wiggle room on your side. Unless you have a personal reason to want to convince them to become Atheist like they're doing to you - don't do anything more than ignore it.
posted by ish__ at 7:57 AM on April 2, 2010

Filter and ignore the emails.

If it's more personal -- phone call or visit -- HuronBob has it.

"But you have to come to Jesus because blah blah blah --"
"Mom, I've told you I really would rather we not get into this. I've explained my position, and I need you to respect my decision. If you can't, I'm afraid I'm going to have to hang up/leave."

{Mom continues}

"okay. Well, I can see it's not a good time, so it's been nice talking/visiting, I'll talk/see you later." (hang up/leave)

Basically, make it about their behavior rather than the content of what they're saying, and give that behavior consequences (i.e., if they harp on it, you will stop talking to them).
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:58 AM on April 2, 2010 [7 favorites]

*it seems*
posted by purpletangerine at 7:59 AM on April 2, 2010

Best answer: Since you've already told them that you don't believe in god, consider the matter closed. You don't have to remind them or convince them every time they bring it up.

If someone suggests that I pray about something, I just say "thank you" (for the advice) -- I don't use it as an excuse to talk about my beliefs, because they don't want to hear it. Sure, it's disrepectful of them to bombard you with god stuff all the time, but it's (probably) coming from a place of caring -- so try to take it in that spirit, and don't feel like you have to defend yourself about it. They're not going to accept your disbelief, and it'll be frustrating to try to force the issue every time -- see if you can just let it go.

I also get emails from family members about religious things, and I just delete them.

"God loves you!" --> "Thank you."

"Pray about this!" --> "Thank you."

Crazy email --> delete.
posted by cider at 8:01 AM on April 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

If they were willing to listen to you and what you wanted in this matter, they would have stopped already. The best course of action if this behavior is not a deal-break for you is to do what others have suggested and not engage in any conversation about the topic and delete emails. I know this is frustrating, but maybe you could start looking at it as their attempt to look out for your best interests.

My guess is you're not going to be able to get them to stop unless you take some drastic action. If it were me--although from the way you framed the question it sounds like you're a lot nicer than I am--I would have an explicit and direct conversation with my family telling them I needed them to stop. I would tell them that their lack of respect for me and my way of life and unwillingness to even consider what I'm saying was alienating me and then disengage with them unless and until they changed the way they communicated with me.
posted by Kimberly at 8:03 AM on April 2, 2010

Echoing everybody else here and encouraging you to just plain not engage them on this topic. Change the subject, don't reply, do whatever. They want to get in a game of tug-of-war with you, and your job is to just not pick up your end of the rope... because if you play that game, one of you is going to get all muddy and pissed off.

To use a favorite turn of phrase that I learned from my grandfather for situations like this (and this isn't any sort of indictment on family... just an amusing phrase about fruitless arguments): "If you wrestle with a pig, you both end up covered in shit...Only difference is the pig is happy about it."

So just don't argue.
posted by kaseijin at 8:10 AM on April 2, 2010

Best answer: I just want them to stop telling me to pray for this and pray for that and God-God-Goddity God.

You were raised in a religious family. They've been assuming all along that you believed as they did, and so it must be jarring to them to discover that, in fact, you reject their belief system entirely. It doesn't excuse their poor behavior, but it's something to consider. If you haven't acknowledged that your recent announcement was likely a shock to them, you might try something like: "Mom, I understand that you're surprised and upset that I'm an atheist, and you may feel like you need to convince me to believe, but the way you're talking to me is upsetting me."

But, generally, what they're doing isn't about religion. They're just being rude, same as if they were trying to convince you your political opinions or choice of career or decisions about your personal life were wrong. It's entirely reasonable to attempt to change the subject and, if that doesn't work, to leave the conversation.
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:15 AM on April 2, 2010

No thanks, I'm good.

This, with a cheery smile, works wonders on missionaries recruiting on the street and canvassing door to door. I've even used it on the mitzvah tank guys (I'm one of those people who "looks Jewish").
posted by availablelight at 8:17 AM on April 2, 2010

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. In my universe there are two sorts of atheists [and religionists] those who are comfortable and satisfied with their own choices, and evangelists of some stripe. So, if you are comfortable with your atheism, good for you. Your family's wackiness about their own religion is annoying but not ultimately threatening. I'm going to take a page from the AA playbook and say "you can't change other people, you can only change your reactions to them" People have given you some great advice above. In short, you can let your family know that your mind is made up, that this is not an open topic for discussion, and that if they want to interact with you, they can not continue to keep doing this. And then, as others have said, back it up.

This is the same advice I would give to anyone who was having their personal boundaries violated by someone, the topic almost doesn't matter with the exception of the fact that people who argue about religion often pick bad times to bring this sort of thing up ["Feeling bad? Oh I wish you could let Jesus into your heart...." was my grandmother's line]. So, be comfortable and confident that you have made the best choice for you, that they are being terrifically rude, and employ technological solutions to your problems.

- get off the phone if the talk turns religion-y "Call me back when you're ready to not talk to me like this"
- filter all religious super-forwarded emails straight to the trash, let them know you are doing this as dispasionately as you can. They have a choice they can take or leave.
- indicate through your words and actions that this is not an open subject for debate and then do not debate it. Do not reply to arguments or debate topics. Do not even "defend yourself" just leave it alone.

You can't change their minds, but you can determine what is and is not acceptable behavior for people who interact with you. I'm sorry people are being screamy and dramatic around you, but be assured that no matter what the topic is, you are totally allowed to tell them not to be that way.
posted by jessamyn at 8:44 AM on April 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

I've been reading Lowndes' book recently, and came in to recommend exactly what Jaltcoh said.
posted by cmgonzalez at 8:52 AM on April 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

Mod note: comment removed - your question should be helping the OP out not making some sort of "maybe your family is right" argument. Go to MetaTalk if you need to do that.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:53 AM on April 2, 2010

I have two approaches with this -- one, I make a point of being respectful to my mother's beliefs, and I insist that she be respectful to mine. Two, if she persists I say, 'well, that's something to think about.' and change the subject.

Basically, be polite, don't engage, keep it short.

Repeat 10000 times.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 9:05 AM on April 2, 2010

With good friends who do this, whom I do not with to alienate and who I feel are truly acting out of their concern for my well-being, I generally respond something along the lines of, "I appreciate that you care so much about me and I do understand how important this is to you and how much your relationship with God matters in your life, and I really respect you for that. Right now, this is something I need to deal with on my own [and it's between me and God]*. But I know that if I ever do have questions or need to talk about it, I can come to you for that, and I appreciate that so much. And I really appreciate you giving me space right now to deal with these things in my own way."

*I am religious, just apparently not the right KIND of religious, for some people, so I usually stick that in, because American Protestantism generally has great respect for the personal search for God. You could take it or leave it depending on your personal views.

I think what most people are looking for is a) affirmation that you still respect them despite believing differently; b) to truly help you and/or introduce you to something they find VERY important; and c) connect with you. This lets you acknowledge all of those motivations and show the person you appreciate their care for you and you do respect their beliefs, but makes the point to them that you need to cope with this personally. It DOES leave the door open by saying "I'll come to you if I ever need you," which I suppose some pushy people would exploit, but I've generally found that makes people feel comfortable letting it go because you've acknowledged them as a possible future resource. (And, hey, if you're close and it ever did come up, you probably would go to them.)

I don't know if this will work with freaking-out immediate family, but I have had very good success with it with good friends and, like, cousins.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:20 AM on April 2, 2010 [2 favorites]

Best answer: You have told your family something that is shocking to them. They need time to adjust, and might need more info.

Your mother may take it as a personal rejection, and a rejection of her values. It may help to reassure her that the values of honesty, kindness, and other moral areas are still strongly held values (assuming they are), and that while you may not have her belief in a deity, you have the moral training and guidance that she instilled in you.

When people offer prayers, it's meant as a gift, say thank you. I'm an atheist, but the idea of someone sending me some spiritual energy feels wonderful, and I appreciate their thoughtfulness.

The rules for family are different than for door-to-door proselytizers. Give Mom and Sis a few months to wrap their brains around the new information. Then start responding on an occasional basis, maybe weekly, with a standard response along the lines of "Mom, I know this is important to you, but the constant flow of religious material is not effective, and it makes me feel that you aren't listening to me. I've carefully considered these issues. i respect your choices in spiritual faith, and I want to respect my spiritual choices. I love you dearly, thank you for trying to understand my point of view."

With any family issue, it may help to have some topics ready for conversation-changing. Mom: Oh, woe is us, my baby has lost her precious faith in Jesus. You: Hey, let's plan Friday's dinner instead of going over this today. Did I tell you about Martha Stewart's ham glaze recipe?
posted by theora55 at 9:20 AM on April 2, 2010

I'm not an atheist, but as a Unitarian I've encountered some of what you're talking about. I always turn to this saying from Francis David: "We need not think alike to love alike." It's a way to recognize that they love you, you love them, but you just don't share the same beliefs.
posted by Mouse Army at 9:49 AM on April 2, 2010 [2 favorites]

Best answer: Dismissive: "thank you". [Change subject].

More dismissive: "I'm not interested in discussing/hearing about that". [Change subject].

Most dismissive: Get up and walk out of the room/hang up the phone/leave the house. [Force a change].

Feel free to go through all of these in any conversation.

One thing you can't do is control their behaviour. I can see how it would be really annoying to have this pushed on you all the time, but from their point of view, they're doing a good thing, and they won't stop doing it. You can't force them to change that behaviour because it benefits them. All you can do is change your own behaviour, which might come to a complete time-out period with no contact, should you not want to hear this strongly enough.

If they're going to keep doing this, you'll have to consider how much you want to be around them. There is no magic wand you can wave that will alter their behaviour. All you can do is alter your own.
posted by Solomon at 10:01 AM on April 2, 2010

For emails, I recommend responding every time with only "I love you, Mom." Perhaps even set up a macro to generate these responses.

For conversations, try "I'm not religious; it doesn't connect the same way for me as it does for other people." Feel free to truncate that to "I'm not religious." This subtly shifts the framing of the exchange to being about a characteristic of the other person, which is a different topic from your own atheism.

If someone has has exhausted your desire to be gentle with them, then the unvarnished version is "I'm not superstitious."
posted by NortonDC at 10:07 AM on April 2, 2010

The genteel Southern version of "Fuck Off" (which is "Well bless your heart!") works great in these kind of situations.
posted by Aquaman at 10:17 AM on April 2, 2010

Yeah, you're never going to get them to stop praying for you. Make your peace with that however you can, because you are literally powerless to make them stop. It's meaningless, it's a waste of their breath and energy, and it doesn't affect you at all in any real way.

As for the direct confrontations? I agree that they might be doing it out of a place of love -- for them, atheism is as vile and destructive as, say, a meth habit, and expecting them to be cool with it is, well, unlikely -- but they need to cut it out with the histrionics and the drama. The passive disengagement techniques above work really, really well, but if you want to be more direct about it, you can always say "Thanks so much, but I'm really happy and comfortable with my belief system." Or, you can try using their language: "I know you're concerned, but this isn't helping. You're just going to have to sit tight and wait for me to have my own Damascus moment or something."

But for the love of various kinds of finches, don't start trying to argue with them about why their beliefs are stupid. Even if it's self-evident; hell, ESPECIALLY if it's self-evident. You can't disengage while engaging, you can't walk away from a fight you're invested in, and you honestly can't win this one. So whatever it is you have to do in order to keep it light and disinterested, do it.
posted by KathrynT at 10:30 AM on April 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

The best way I've seen it done is with Grace and Humor: Oh don't worry Mom, I still believe in YOU! XOXOX. It's OK, relax, you can say an extra prayer for me on Sunday! etc.
posted by coffeefilter at 10:43 AM on April 2, 2010

I hate to suggest this, but could you try ... lying?

My wife was raised by her preacher grandfather and her grandmother. I have never been a believer. She has since come around to my way of thinking. When we visit them, we don't bring it up, and if they do we give a non committal answer and move along.

Maybe not a full blown lie of "I'm a believer now!", but maybe more of a white lie of going to church once, mentioning it to them, then not going back and not mentioning that part.
posted by I am the Walrus at 1:46 PM on April 2, 2010

Alternatively, if this comment is correct, you could go to a Unitarian Universalism church and still be an atheist. Then you could say you are going to church and not be lying. Would that get them off your back?
posted by I am the Walrus at 1:46 PM on April 2, 2010

you could go to a Unitarian Universalism church and still be an atheist.
This is definitely true. That's why my husband and I became UUs. As a Catholic who married and Atheist, I've found it to be a wonderful place to share a sense of spirituality and community.
Of course, you shouldn't feel like you have to do anything differently just to placate your family's ideas about religion.
posted by purpletangerine at 2:29 PM on April 2, 2010

Best answer: A friend I've known since i was 10 and he was 15 - and was one of the super cool older kids during adolescence was entirely normal until his late 20s then something happened and this intelligent educated well-read man became super duper duper born again and now believes the world is 6000 years old, humans co-existed with dinosaurs, fossils which lead to different conclusions were fabricated and planted by satan himself, etc., etc., etc.. He truly and honestly is worried about my immortal soul and the eternity of hell that awaits me and I appreciate his sincere, but mis-guided concern.

We've discussed and he now understands that I'm not in any way swayed by his or any other religion. What got us to this detente' was this exchange:

Him: "What would it take to convince you?"
Me: "You get your savior to appear before me in corporeal form, let me see the effects of crucifixion and have a few minutes to ask questions. Do that and I'll join your religion right there."
Him: "I'll work on it."

He isn't proselytizing anymore and his god hasn't made a house call yet so we're in a good place. Perhaps this would work on your family?
posted by BrooksCooper at 6:07 PM on April 2, 2010 [2 favorites]

Also, have you said, "I really don't want to receive any emails about religion. Please stop sending them." Who knows, maybe they'll stop. (It worked for me in a different context: a friend kept forwarding wretched politically-oriented email to me, and stopped at my request.)
posted by exphysicist345 at 7:50 PM on April 2, 2010

I was also baptized and confirmed (Protestant); I haven't been to a church service in 16 years though, and agree with you - pushing anything on anyone is obnoxious and when it comes to religion, it makes me want to start swinging baseball bats.

Blocking the emails would be the first thing I'd do. Seriously, you just don't need to see that sort of nonsense every day. It's emotional abuse.
posted by New England Cultist at 1:58 PM on April 4, 2010

I am the Walrus: "Alternatively, if this comment is correct, you could go to a Unitarian Universalism church and still be an atheist. Then you could say you are going to church and not be lying. Would that get them off your back?"

I can see this backfiring when they want to talk to you about Jesus being in your life.
posted by IndigoRain at 12:38 AM on April 6, 2010

Assumptionfilter: If you have told your family that declaring that the fact that you "do not believe in God has made me a better person" then this might be where they are coming from. I know I certainly got irritated when family members did the whole "I went to XXX private school, its much better than the public school you went to".

I used to respond to this a little like your parents, I would talk about how public schools (in Australia at least) encourage fair education, and that I went on to graduate from university and have a successful career, name prominent Australians from the public education system etc etc etc.

Even the unspoken but clearly visible disdain and the roll of the eyes can pass on your impression that you are a better person for being an atheist (and therefore, as they are not athiest, you are better than them).

Or I could be way off the mark and all this is totally unwarranted.
posted by Admira at 4:32 PM on April 7, 2010