White Collar Finale: if this were real, what would happen next?
March 12, 2010 2:42 PM Subscribe
This may be the strangest question I've ever asked here. What, exactly, would happen next after the last scene of the finale of White Collar, if it had happened in real life? Lawyers, policemen, FBI agents, etc. might have answers, but so might anyone else. (Obvious spoiler warning: extended explanation of the last scene of season 1 of White Collar.)
Quick show set-up: Neal, a forger and art thief is let out of prison early to help Peter, the FBI agent who put him away, solve crimes. Neal has a tracking device on his ankle so that he cannot leave. Plot plot plot, blah blah blah.
In the final scene of season 1, through a series of increasingly twisty circumstances, Peter has been put on suspension, and therefore, for all intents and purposes, is a civilian (he has no badge, no gun, and no authority to do anything, Bureau-wise). Neal is freed from his tracking device thanks to someone higher up the chain of command than Peter. Neal is at a small airstrip in NYC, about to get on a plane with his girlfriend Kate, who has also been involved in the twisty intrigue. Peter shows up to try to convince him to stay. While Neal and Peter are talking, the plane explodes behind them. (Anyone who believes Kate is really dead doesn't know how to watch television, but the characters don't know that they're in a tv show, so they think she got blowed up real good.) Neal starts screaming and running toward the plane; Peter grabs him and keeps him back. End of season.
If this were real, what would happen next? Peter and Neal are witnesses to the explosion. Would they be questioned by anyone in authority? Who? Homeland Security? Could Peter use the fact that he's with the FBI to get them both out of having to spend hours describing what they saw or didn't see? Would Neal, if he were out of control, screaming (we're given the sense that this is what is going to happen) be sedated? Who else would show up? I assume the airstrip has a fire department and emergency vehicles of its own, etc. The police? Even if Peter doesn't have his badge, could he call in favors from his boss? I can't begin to imagine what would happen next in this situation.
Anyone have any kind of knowledge about procedure in this bizarre set-up?
Quick show set-up: Neal, a forger and art thief is let out of prison early to help Peter, the FBI agent who put him away, solve crimes. Neal has a tracking device on his ankle so that he cannot leave. Plot plot plot, blah blah blah.
In the final scene of season 1, through a series of increasingly twisty circumstances, Peter has been put on suspension, and therefore, for all intents and purposes, is a civilian (he has no badge, no gun, and no authority to do anything, Bureau-wise). Neal is freed from his tracking device thanks to someone higher up the chain of command than Peter. Neal is at a small airstrip in NYC, about to get on a plane with his girlfriend Kate, who has also been involved in the twisty intrigue. Peter shows up to try to convince him to stay. While Neal and Peter are talking, the plane explodes behind them. (Anyone who believes Kate is really dead doesn't know how to watch television, but the characters don't know that they're in a tv show, so they think she got blowed up real good.) Neal starts screaming and running toward the plane; Peter grabs him and keeps him back. End of season.
If this were real, what would happen next? Peter and Neal are witnesses to the explosion. Would they be questioned by anyone in authority? Who? Homeland Security? Could Peter use the fact that he's with the FBI to get them both out of having to spend hours describing what they saw or didn't see? Would Neal, if he were out of control, screaming (we're given the sense that this is what is going to happen) be sedated? Who else would show up? I assume the airstrip has a fire department and emergency vehicles of its own, etc. The police? Even if Peter doesn't have his badge, could he call in favors from his boss? I can't begin to imagine what would happen next in this situation.
Anyone have any kind of knowledge about procedure in this bizarre set-up?
Response by poster: *s, is any plane explosion an act of terrorism? Is the instant assumption that it was a bomb, or a malfunction? The engines had just gone from "idle" to "engaged" (I am making these terms up because I know nothing about airplane tech talk) before the explosion--how would an investigation proceed? Since it's a terribly small "airport" (it's not even called an airport, but an "airstrip by the Hudson, hangar 4"), would they even have Customs & Immigration there? I doubt very much that any international flights take off or leave from this airstrip (it was a very small plane).
Would the two witnesses to the explosion be held for questioning (I'm assuming yes)? If the Feds show up, would they be able to get one (or two) of their own away from the likely interviews of local law enforcement, perhaps with a promise of a full interview the next day?
Ambulances, too, and fire engines, I expect. I just can't untangle everything that would come next.
(BTW I'm not asking you to answer all of these questions, but rather look them over and see if you happen to have an answer to one or two off the top of your head.)
posted by tzikeh at 4:16 PM on March 12, 2010
Would the two witnesses to the explosion be held for questioning (I'm assuming yes)? If the Feds show up, would they be able to get one (or two) of their own away from the likely interviews of local law enforcement, perhaps with a promise of a full interview the next day?
Ambulances, too, and fire engines, I expect. I just can't untangle everything that would come next.
(BTW I'm not asking you to answer all of these questions, but rather look them over and see if you happen to have an answer to one or two off the top of your head.)
posted by tzikeh at 4:16 PM on March 12, 2010
I don't have any speculations, but you left out one thing that I think will be important. Peter is suspended, but Neal's status has changed too -- remember, he got released from the program with a new identity for himself and Kate.
posted by Houstonian at 5:15 PM on March 12, 2010
posted by Houstonian at 5:15 PM on March 12, 2010
Response by poster: Houstonian - true, but he still has his consultant's ID (or, rather, Peter has it), which could possibly be used in a pinch as a basis for some authority. Of course, if whoever is pulling Fowler's strings to get at the music box isn't telling Fowler the whole truth (which one can only assume he isn't), then who knows if Neal works for OPR, or is officially disconnected from White Collar division, or anything, since Mr. Secret Guy (IMO) was just going to blow him up anyway.
But I'm not sure how any of that would play into the next few hours immediately following the explosion.
posted by tzikeh at 5:24 PM on March 12, 2010
But I'm not sure how any of that would play into the next few hours immediately following the explosion.
posted by tzikeh at 5:24 PM on March 12, 2010
Is the instant assumption that it was a bomb, or a malfunction?
Malfunctions don't cause plane-destroying explosions. Yeah, until they have definitive proof otherwise they'll assume it's a bomb, and assume the explosion is deliberate.
Whether that's "terrorism" depends on who you're talking to, of course. And for purposes of motivating the FBI to investigate, it doesn't really matter. A deliberate bombing is important whether it's "terrorism" or not.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 5:39 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
Malfunctions don't cause plane-destroying explosions. Yeah, until they have definitive proof otherwise they'll assume it's a bomb, and assume the explosion is deliberate.
Whether that's "terrorism" depends on who you're talking to, of course. And for purposes of motivating the FBI to investigate, it doesn't really matter. A deliberate bombing is important whether it's "terrorism" or not.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 5:39 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think I should clarify: there have been malfunctions which have led to planes crashing and everyone on board dying, if the malfunction happened in mid-air. The notorious DC-10 cargo hatch malfunction was an example off that.
And I suppose there could be a malfunction which led to a cascading failure which ultimately resulted in a fuel explosion. But the process of the cascade would be quite slow -- minutes, and obvious while it was happening. (For instance, the pilots would smell smoke, or smell jet fuel, and would probably announce that to the tower. At the very least they'd talk about it, and it would be on the black box later.)
I can't think of a plausible malfunction which would instantly lead to a plane-destroying explosion. Not to say that such a thing is outright impossible but it would be really, really amazing and obscure. In the case of an explosion like you describe, the overwhelming suspicion would be that it was deliberate.
Now it wouldn't necessarily be terrorism as such. It could, for instance, be a murder, targeting one person on the plane with disregard for everyone else who died. But again, that's a pretty obscure case, and investigators would initially suspect a terrorist incident, and only abandon that if presented with pretty solid evidence to the contrary.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 5:46 PM on March 12, 2010
And I suppose there could be a malfunction which led to a cascading failure which ultimately resulted in a fuel explosion. But the process of the cascade would be quite slow -- minutes, and obvious while it was happening. (For instance, the pilots would smell smoke, or smell jet fuel, and would probably announce that to the tower. At the very least they'd talk about it, and it would be on the black box later.)
I can't think of a plausible malfunction which would instantly lead to a plane-destroying explosion. Not to say that such a thing is outright impossible but it would be really, really amazing and obscure. In the case of an explosion like you describe, the overwhelming suspicion would be that it was deliberate.
Now it wouldn't necessarily be terrorism as such. It could, for instance, be a murder, targeting one person on the plane with disregard for everyone else who died. But again, that's a pretty obscure case, and investigators would initially suspect a terrorist incident, and only abandon that if presented with pretty solid evidence to the contrary.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 5:46 PM on March 12, 2010
In the following hours everyone would just be reeling, trying to take care of the mess. The facts are actually quite clear here, the plane was blown up on purpose by an unknown person, so I don't see why they would need to be held in custody. Whoever the mystery person who has manipulated things from behind the scenes is, he/she seems to have a lot of pull within the FBI so the investigation would likely be taken over by them and controlled.
And yes, Emergency Services and pretty much everyone else would arrive in the area, there probably exists a coordination plan in case of accidents at the airstrip and the emergency services and the police would seal off the area, treat any injuries and put out fires. Further down the line there would be a fairly brief accident investigation (Due to the simple facts of the incident.)
I can't think of a plausible malfunction which would instantly lead to a plane-destroying explosion.
Fuel vapors exploding inside the fuel tank due to a spark. see TWA Flight 800. Also see how the FBI had a parallel criminal investigation also.
But again, that's a pretty obscure case, and investigators would initially suspect a terrorist incident, and only abandon that if presented with pretty solid evidence to the contrary.
Given that the private plane was supposed to be carrying a known criminal and was carrying a person of interest for the FBI and was blown up rather obviously on purpose, the criminal investigation would probably not consider terrorism unless there was some evidence of it (which we did not see in the show).
posted by Authorized User at 4:15 AM on March 13, 2010
And yes, Emergency Services and pretty much everyone else would arrive in the area, there probably exists a coordination plan in case of accidents at the airstrip and the emergency services and the police would seal off the area, treat any injuries and put out fires. Further down the line there would be a fairly brief accident investigation (Due to the simple facts of the incident.)
I can't think of a plausible malfunction which would instantly lead to a plane-destroying explosion.
Fuel vapors exploding inside the fuel tank due to a spark. see TWA Flight 800. Also see how the FBI had a parallel criminal investigation also.
But again, that's a pretty obscure case, and investigators would initially suspect a terrorist incident, and only abandon that if presented with pretty solid evidence to the contrary.
Given that the private plane was supposed to be carrying a known criminal and was carrying a person of interest for the FBI and was blown up rather obviously on purpose, the criminal investigation would probably not consider terrorism unless there was some evidence of it (which we did not see in the show).
posted by Authorized User at 4:15 AM on March 13, 2010
Ah, I didn't see the show, so I assumed by "airstrip" you meant a runway of a standard airport. At a private facility, you wouldn't have all those federal agencies already there. But yes, the fire department and ambulances, and federal and local law enforcement. Even an airstrip is part of the interstate/international commerce channels and as discussed further below, there's a potential terrorism angle, so the federal folks would be there.
Whenever planes explode or crash, it seems that law enforcement first rules out a criminal act, such as terrorism. This makes sense because if the explosion is the result of terrorism, the FBI and their coordinate law enforcement agencies need to act fast to interview witnesses and get information about where the suspect is (if alive) and if the suspect acted alone and set about apprehending the suspect(s). But no, not every plane explosion is a terroristic act. It could be a mechanical problem or even a (incredibly dumb) prank.
Given how high a priority anti-terrorism is in law enforcement, and how time-sensitive the investigation would be, I can't imagine that FBI agents who were witnesses to a potential terroristic act would be able to get out of being interviewed by the FBI. The FBI would want to interview them as soon as physically possible. I'm not sure how involved local law enforcement would be.
posted by *s at 5:42 AM on March 13, 2010
Whenever planes explode or crash, it seems that law enforcement first rules out a criminal act, such as terrorism. This makes sense because if the explosion is the result of terrorism, the FBI and their coordinate law enforcement agencies need to act fast to interview witnesses and get information about where the suspect is (if alive) and if the suspect acted alone and set about apprehending the suspect(s). But no, not every plane explosion is a terroristic act. It could be a mechanical problem or even a (incredibly dumb) prank.
Given how high a priority anti-terrorism is in law enforcement, and how time-sensitive the investigation would be, I can't imagine that FBI agents who were witnesses to a potential terroristic act would be able to get out of being interviewed by the FBI. The FBI would want to interview them as soon as physically possible. I'm not sure how involved local law enforcement would be.
posted by *s at 5:42 AM on March 13, 2010
Response by poster: The facts are actually quite clear here, the plane was blown up on purpose by an unknown person, so I don't see why they would need to be held in custody. Whoever the mystery person who has manipulated things from behind the scenes is, he/she seems to have a lot of pull within the FBI so the investigation would likely be taken over by them and controlled.
Sure, but our protagonists have absolutely no proof of that, and so local law enforcement, and Homeland Security, and the TSA would have no reason to believe them. We can't use the plotline that we're aware of, as an audience, to consider what happens next, which is why I was asking the question of what would occur, in real life, with just the facts of the case presented to the people who show up. Peter would call the police, and then his boss at the FBI, of course, but would that be enough to excuse the eyewitness to the explosion from questioning? There was nobody else there.
posted by tzikeh at 9:39 AM on March 13, 2010
Sure, but our protagonists have absolutely no proof of that, and so local law enforcement, and Homeland Security, and the TSA would have no reason to believe them. We can't use the plotline that we're aware of, as an audience, to consider what happens next, which is why I was asking the question of what would occur, in real life, with just the facts of the case presented to the people who show up. Peter would call the police, and then his boss at the FBI, of course, but would that be enough to excuse the eyewitness to the explosion from questioning? There was nobody else there.
posted by tzikeh at 9:39 AM on March 13, 2010
I can't imagine why they wouldn't be questioned; as the sole witnesses to the explosion they are persons of interest, even if they aren't suspects for the crime. It seems plausible that federal agencies would become involved given the whole airplane/potential-terrorism angle and the fact that Peter works (worked?) for the FBI makes the FBI probably guaranteed to get involved somehow. The mysterious person behind the scenes influencing the FBI complicates things but do they have enough pull to stop the FBI from investigating?
posted by 6550 at 1:46 PM on March 13, 2010
posted by 6550 at 1:46 PM on March 13, 2010
Response by poster: 6550 - Peter works for the FBI, though he is currently on a two-week suspension. He has not been fired. As for the mysterious person behind the scenes, again, that's not something they could even remotely bring into the conversation with law-enforcement officials, as they don't know enough to fill in the details anyway. I don't think this person (Fowler) has the pull to stop the Bureau from investigating.
posted by tzikeh at 4:44 PM on March 13, 2010
posted by tzikeh at 4:44 PM on March 13, 2010
Sure, but our protagonists have absolutely no proof of that, and so local law enforcement, and Homeland Security, and the TSA would have no reason to believe them.
The FBI would almost certainly conduct the criminal investigation and yes they would question the witnesses. But given the facts the characters know and would fast find out, there is no particular reason to suspect terrorism and many reasons to suspect murder. Remember, Peter is FBI even though he has been suspended due to a (supposedly) unrelated incident.
I don't think this person (Fowler) has the pull to stop the Bureau from investigating.
I was referring to the person that gives Fowler orders he considers above his pay-grade. But clearly there is enough knowledge both overt and covert inside the FBI to make the investigation go in interesting ways, which would of course depend on the politicking and what-not of the various agents involved.
Ah, I didn't see the show, so I assumed by "airstrip" you meant a runway of a standard airport. At a private facility, you wouldn't have all those federal agencies already there
Oh it looked like a standard airport. But the flight was on a private business jet and bombing one of those is obviously quite different from bombing a scheduled passenger flight, as far as figuring out why it was bombed goes.
posted by Authorized User at 5:31 PM on March 13, 2010
The FBI would almost certainly conduct the criminal investigation and yes they would question the witnesses. But given the facts the characters know and would fast find out, there is no particular reason to suspect terrorism and many reasons to suspect murder. Remember, Peter is FBI even though he has been suspended due to a (supposedly) unrelated incident.
I don't think this person (Fowler) has the pull to stop the Bureau from investigating.
I was referring to the person that gives Fowler orders he considers above his pay-grade. But clearly there is enough knowledge both overt and covert inside the FBI to make the investigation go in interesting ways, which would of course depend on the politicking and what-not of the various agents involved.
Ah, I didn't see the show, so I assumed by "airstrip" you meant a runway of a standard airport. At a private facility, you wouldn't have all those federal agencies already there
Oh it looked like a standard airport. But the flight was on a private business jet and bombing one of those is obviously quite different from bombing a scheduled passenger flight, as far as figuring out why it was bombed goes.
posted by Authorized User at 5:31 PM on March 13, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
Here, it's an airport. This is heavily federally-regulated territory, it's arguably an international border, it's possible terrorism, so you'd see the FBI for sure. The local police may have officers who are seconded (loaned out) to the FBI, but if they're there, they'd be under the aegis of the FBI, not the local police. I was trying to figure out from the DHS's website who all their law enforcement peeps are, and none of the specialized ones seem to fit exactly. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) and Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) would be at the airport making sure you are allowed to be in the US and making sure you didn't bring unpasteurized cheese back from France or weapons on to your flight, but this doesn't seem to be their specialty. It's more interdiction than investigation. Secret Service is protection of officials and financial fraud and things like that. The Federal Air Marshals and the Transportation Security Administration generally also seem more preventative in nature. The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) doesn't do criminal investigations.
Short answer: Law enforcement I would expect to be there would be the FBI and the NYPD.
posted by *s at 4:02 PM on March 12, 2010