He's a lot like me. But handsomer.
February 23, 2010 3:51 PM Subscribe
How to deal with a Lothario in your social scene?
In my core group of friends there's a guy who's totally interesting, friendly, a charmer of women and men alike, and blessed with great looks. He's truly a great guy to know--and if he'd settle on pursuing just one or two (or three or four!) women all would be well.
But alas! He's magnetic when it comes to women of our age/type in our social scene. He's a relentless flirt to be sure, but it doesn't seem malicious. It's simply that in any social situation--at a party, during a group outing, when we're all introduced to a friends-of-friends--he tends to draw attention from all available ladies (and reciprocate in kind).
It's not even a matter of long-run dateability--many women get over him before long, and I'm happy with my own romantic potential in a vacuum. But once someone comes into his orbit it kind of dampens future potential; a couple of the rare times I've felt like I really hit it off with a special someone, I later awkwardly learned that she'd already traded numbers with Lothario earlier in the evening/week/whenever.
We're not really close enough for me to talk to him directly about this (and if he intentionally stood-down wouldn't that be kind of worse?) -- and avoiding him isn't an option as it'd mean avoiding my whole social circle. I can and do try to meet women away from my group of friends, but none of those avenues really compare to the people you meet just hanging out or when you're introduced by existing acquaintances.
Tips for getting out of the beta-male rut? Has anyone else dealt with this successfully or unsuccessfully?
(And to be clear, I'm talking about finding potentially meaningful relationships in all manner of mixed-gender, mixed-sexuality social contexts--not about a bunch of dudes trying to pick up girls at bars or anything.)
In my core group of friends there's a guy who's totally interesting, friendly, a charmer of women and men alike, and blessed with great looks. He's truly a great guy to know--and if he'd settle on pursuing just one or two (or three or four!) women all would be well.
But alas! He's magnetic when it comes to women of our age/type in our social scene. He's a relentless flirt to be sure, but it doesn't seem malicious. It's simply that in any social situation--at a party, during a group outing, when we're all introduced to a friends-of-friends--he tends to draw attention from all available ladies (and reciprocate in kind).
It's not even a matter of long-run dateability--many women get over him before long, and I'm happy with my own romantic potential in a vacuum. But once someone comes into his orbit it kind of dampens future potential; a couple of the rare times I've felt like I really hit it off with a special someone, I later awkwardly learned that she'd already traded numbers with Lothario earlier in the evening/week/whenever.
We're not really close enough for me to talk to him directly about this (and if he intentionally stood-down wouldn't that be kind of worse?) -- and avoiding him isn't an option as it'd mean avoiding my whole social circle. I can and do try to meet women away from my group of friends, but none of those avenues really compare to the people you meet just hanging out or when you're introduced by existing acquaintances.
Tips for getting out of the beta-male rut? Has anyone else dealt with this successfully or unsuccessfully?
(And to be clear, I'm talking about finding potentially meaningful relationships in all manner of mixed-gender, mixed-sexuality social contexts--not about a bunch of dudes trying to pick up girls at bars or anything.)
a couple of the rare times I've felt like I really hit it off with a special someone, I later awkwardly learned that she'd already traded numbers with Lothario earlier in the evening/week/whenever.
Why is this necessarily a problem? Women are capable of going out on dates with more than one guy. If you go out with them and he goes out with them and you stick around and he fucks off, well, YOU come off looking awesome.
It sounds like you are suffering from a poor self image. You're comparing yourself to this guy like you think he's sooo much better than you. He's hot, so what. His presence doesn't erase you from existence. Just pretend he's not there and pursue the women you are interested in.
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:58 PM on February 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
Why is this necessarily a problem? Women are capable of going out on dates with more than one guy. If you go out with them and he goes out with them and you stick around and he fucks off, well, YOU come off looking awesome.
It sounds like you are suffering from a poor self image. You're comparing yourself to this guy like you think he's sooo much better than you. He's hot, so what. His presence doesn't erase you from existence. Just pretend he's not there and pursue the women you are interested in.
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:58 PM on February 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
Well, you say that your social circle is somewhat fixed - as you can't pursue a social life sans him being at least there on the periphery without giving up the whole group - and you also say that women eventually get over him. So I must assume that there are women in your social group who have 'gotten over' him...is there not a fair maiden amongst these to pursue?
Alternatively, I would question just how intensely you think everyone is infatuated with him. It's pretty rare, outside of a pop star groupie situation, to have someone who is the sole star of the whole group and everyone in an entire social circle fawns endlessly over this one individual. Don't get me wrong - I'm sure he is all the things you say he is...but is he really so far above the fray that the rest of you are reduced to dithering cuckolds? I can almost guarantee you that his charms are not so significantly greater than yours that you have no shot "against" (for lack of a better word) him.
posted by Lutoslawski at 4:02 PM on February 23, 2010
Alternatively, I would question just how intensely you think everyone is infatuated with him. It's pretty rare, outside of a pop star groupie situation, to have someone who is the sole star of the whole group and everyone in an entire social circle fawns endlessly over this one individual. Don't get me wrong - I'm sure he is all the things you say he is...but is he really so far above the fray that the rest of you are reduced to dithering cuckolds? I can almost guarantee you that his charms are not so significantly greater than yours that you have no shot "against" (for lack of a better word) him.
posted by Lutoslawski at 4:02 PM on February 23, 2010
Also what dfriedman and showbiz_liz. Just getting a number don't mean shit.
posted by Lutoslawski at 4:05 PM on February 23, 2010
posted by Lutoslawski at 4:05 PM on February 23, 2010
I agree that it doesn't really matter.
Probably all of these girls have dated/been interested in other people before you met them, right? And, I assume you're not instantly looking to become monogamous with a girl upon first talking to her. For those first few dates or however long, it's presumed that you guys are not monogamous until you've agreed otherwise, right?
I don't see how it's different for them to have been interested this particular guy as opposed to any random guy. Why is it okay for random guys to have dated these girls first, but not this particular guy? Is there something more to this that you didn't include? Because it doesn't really make sense right now.
And if the girl is looking for a meaningful relationship as you are, it will be obvious soon enough that it isn't going to happen with this guy. As you said, they get over him soon enough anyway. So then I can't see how it matters in the least.
posted by Ashley801 at 4:05 PM on February 23, 2010
Probably all of these girls have dated/been interested in other people before you met them, right? And, I assume you're not instantly looking to become monogamous with a girl upon first talking to her. For those first few dates or however long, it's presumed that you guys are not monogamous until you've agreed otherwise, right?
I don't see how it's different for them to have been interested this particular guy as opposed to any random guy. Why is it okay for random guys to have dated these girls first, but not this particular guy? Is there something more to this that you didn't include? Because it doesn't really make sense right now.
And if the girl is looking for a meaningful relationship as you are, it will be obvious soon enough that it isn't going to happen with this guy. As you said, they get over him soon enough anyway. So then I can't see how it matters in the least.
posted by Ashley801 at 4:05 PM on February 23, 2010
> there's a guy who's totally interesting, friendly, a charmer
What does he believe about the world, about people generally, and about women in particular?
How would your expectations, your behavior, and your results change... if you had his beliefs?
Why not just get to know him... so you can experiment, trying on his beliefs?
Bluntly, having the kind of fun he's having seems more fun than worrying about how not to feel bad because he's having fun.
posted by darth_tedious at 4:07 PM on February 23, 2010
What does he believe about the world, about people generally, and about women in particular?
How would your expectations, your behavior, and your results change... if you had his beliefs?
Why not just get to know him... so you can experiment, trying on his beliefs?
Bluntly, having the kind of fun he's having seems more fun than worrying about how not to feel bad because he's having fun.
posted by darth_tedious at 4:07 PM on February 23, 2010
I used to date the lothario in my husband's social group and I also dated his best friend at one point. We're all adults and can be adult about it. Sure it's kinda awkward at some points but the crux of the issue is that the relationship I have with the other anachronism is in no way comparable to dating either the lothario or his best friend. Getting a number? Nothing. So much nothing.
(as a note, the lothario is still single/dating all these years later while the two 'beta-males' are happily married)
posted by geek anachronism at 4:13 PM on February 23, 2010
(as a note, the lothario is still single/dating all these years later while the two 'beta-males' are happily married)
posted by geek anachronism at 4:13 PM on February 23, 2010
Also, don't forget that a lot of these people might be flirting with him or exchanging numbers because he seems fun, or even just because he asked and they thought why not, but recognize that he is how is, and are still looking out for/waiting for something more like you. And would prefer you when you do come along.
posted by Ashley801 at 4:15 PM on February 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Ashley801 at 4:15 PM on February 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
It sounds trite, perhaps, but I really think that "getting out of the beta-male rut" is a matter of becoming comfortable in your own skin - work on doing the things that make you happy and becoming the kind of person you're proud to be, and you'll be able to be happy for your friend that he's also confident with himself.
To be more specific, when I say "things that make you happy," I don't only mean short-term or abstract things: learn to cook awesome food or to run, or be the best pet-owner, or whatever suits you that is both rewarding and makes you think you're interesting and appealing. And "becoming the kind of person you're proud to be" isn't just "be good," but requires you to think, on an ongoing basis, about what you like (and can, in the real world, adopt) about other people, and what people like about you.
Spend time with people: the more intimately, the better. Become better, closer friends with your friends, and you''re at least 80% of the way there.
I know the question was about your friend, but he doesn't seem to be a problem. So what if he's charming? That doesn't mean that you're automatically less so, unless you think you are.
posted by Bergamot at 4:23 PM on February 23, 2010
To be more specific, when I say "things that make you happy," I don't only mean short-term or abstract things: learn to cook awesome food or to run, or be the best pet-owner, or whatever suits you that is both rewarding and makes you think you're interesting and appealing. And "becoming the kind of person you're proud to be" isn't just "be good," but requires you to think, on an ongoing basis, about what you like (and can, in the real world, adopt) about other people, and what people like about you.
Spend time with people: the more intimately, the better. Become better, closer friends with your friends, and you''re at least 80% of the way there.
I know the question was about your friend, but he doesn't seem to be a problem. So what if he's charming? That doesn't mean that you're automatically less so, unless you think you are.
posted by Bergamot at 4:23 PM on February 23, 2010
Tips for getting out of the beta-male rut?
Yeah. Stop it with these horseshit PUA alpha/beta male distinctions no matter how reflective of reality you believe them to be. Not just because you don't want to poison your reputation with that barrel-o'-misogyny, but also because you seem to have started objectifying and putting yourself in opposition to someone you're socially cool with, which breeds nothing but enmity and contempt. And who needs that when you're trying to have a good time?
Picture it this way: You're hanging around with a cool dude and you seem to be pretty chill yourself, so you know what the ladies see? Two cool dudes. Extrapolate that out to whatever social-group size you want.
And stop assuming that if you are going to start a conversation with a lady, she's going to spend the whole time in looking over your shoulder at Monsieur Lothario. I can almost assure you that no matter how fuckin' awesome he is, they are not beating one another over with their clutches to get his belt off or whatever. She's talking to you, so it is your turn to shine and he isn't in the picture. And if you shine just the right way, the fact that they exchanged numbers won't matter.
You're not in a "beta-male rut," you just haven't figured yourself out and found your social groove yet. Just be cool and stop dealing blows onto your own self-esteem because that's a rut and a lady can spot a dude who is down on himself from a mile away.
posted by griphus at 4:31 PM on February 23, 2010 [8 favorites]
Yeah. Stop it with these horseshit PUA alpha/beta male distinctions no matter how reflective of reality you believe them to be. Not just because you don't want to poison your reputation with that barrel-o'-misogyny, but also because you seem to have started objectifying and putting yourself in opposition to someone you're socially cool with, which breeds nothing but enmity and contempt. And who needs that when you're trying to have a good time?
Picture it this way: You're hanging around with a cool dude and you seem to be pretty chill yourself, so you know what the ladies see? Two cool dudes. Extrapolate that out to whatever social-group size you want.
And stop assuming that if you are going to start a conversation with a lady, she's going to spend the whole time in looking over your shoulder at Monsieur Lothario. I can almost assure you that no matter how fuckin' awesome he is, they are not beating one another over with their clutches to get his belt off or whatever. She's talking to you, so it is your turn to shine and he isn't in the picture. And if you shine just the right way, the fact that they exchanged numbers won't matter.
You're not in a "beta-male rut," you just haven't figured yourself out and found your social groove yet. Just be cool and stop dealing blows onto your own self-esteem because that's a rut and a lady can spot a dude who is down on himself from a mile away.
posted by griphus at 4:31 PM on February 23, 2010 [8 favorites]
Lothario dude is good at getting phone numbers out of semi-strangers and turning them into dates. So what? Unless you are in your teens, or live in a cloistered community, pretty much every lady that you are likely to date has been on a date before.
You don't need to get in a competition. It's not about who dates the most people. If you are interested in a particular lady and she's not attached, ask her out. Life is way too short, and social scenes and opportunities way too fleeting to do otherwise. If you are respectful and pleasant even a negative answer won't screw up a friendship, and it could turn out to be much more positive.
posted by Jakey at 5:10 PM on February 23, 2010
You don't need to get in a competition. It's not about who dates the most people. If you are interested in a particular lady and she's not attached, ask her out. Life is way too short, and social scenes and opportunities way too fleeting to do otherwise. If you are respectful and pleasant even a negative answer won't screw up a friendship, and it could turn out to be much more positive.
posted by Jakey at 5:10 PM on February 23, 2010
I know a guy like this. He is the guy that they make movies about, whom everyone falls in love with, women, men, gay, straight. Just charming and amazing and gorgeous. So they do exist.
As for the girls giving him their number, why aren't you getting their number, too? What do you expect them to do, break away from a riveting conversation with Lothario, walk up to you, sitting in the corner, and be like, "oh by the way, here is my phone number"?
It's not like a fraternity pin or virginity -- a girl can give her number to more than one person. And being the second guy to ask for her number that evening will give her amazing feelings of being so wonderful and pretty and attractive, which she will semi-associate with you. And even though maybe she's waiting for Lothario's call and not yours, when your phone call is the one that actually comes while Lothario is off with some other girl, you will win.
Life lesson: If you like a girl, initiate conversation, ask for her number, call her, and take her on a date, REGARDLESS OF ALL OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES. If she has a reason to say no, she will; otherwise, now you're on a date with a girl that you like.
posted by thebazilist at 5:21 PM on February 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
As for the girls giving him their number, why aren't you getting their number, too? What do you expect them to do, break away from a riveting conversation with Lothario, walk up to you, sitting in the corner, and be like, "oh by the way, here is my phone number"?
It's not like a fraternity pin or virginity -- a girl can give her number to more than one person. And being the second guy to ask for her number that evening will give her amazing feelings of being so wonderful and pretty and attractive, which she will semi-associate with you. And even though maybe she's waiting for Lothario's call and not yours, when your phone call is the one that actually comes while Lothario is off with some other girl, you will win.
Life lesson: If you like a girl, initiate conversation, ask for her number, call her, and take her on a date, REGARDLESS OF ALL OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES. If she has a reason to say no, she will; otherwise, now you're on a date with a girl that you like.
posted by thebazilist at 5:21 PM on February 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
I have certainly been in this situation, or a variation of it, before.
Here's one thing I've learned about girls over the years:
Different girls are into different things. Like you, I'm never going to win a "best-looking guy in the room" derby, or "richest." So, girls who care about those things a lot aren't for me anyway. If it's not "Lothario," they can certainly find someone else who has more of the quality they want than I do.
And the thing is, I probably wouldn't have that much in common with those girls anyway. Not a judgment, just a fact. Try flipping it around- think about finding the girl you have so much in common with that she won't even notice Lothario is there, because she's so busy talking to you. Don't sweat being passed over by girls you probably wouldn't have that much in common with, dating-wise, anyway. You don't need to date every girl in the room- just one.
posted by drjimmy11 at 5:29 PM on February 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
Here's one thing I've learned about girls over the years:
Different girls are into different things. Like you, I'm never going to win a "best-looking guy in the room" derby, or "richest." So, girls who care about those things a lot aren't for me anyway. If it's not "Lothario," they can certainly find someone else who has more of the quality they want than I do.
And the thing is, I probably wouldn't have that much in common with those girls anyway. Not a judgment, just a fact. Try flipping it around- think about finding the girl you have so much in common with that she won't even notice Lothario is there, because she's so busy talking to you. Don't sweat being passed over by girls you probably wouldn't have that much in common with, dating-wise, anyway. You don't need to date every girl in the room- just one.
posted by drjimmy11 at 5:29 PM on February 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
We're not really close enough for me to talk to him directly about this
Acknowledging that he has every right to be a lothario would be a start with you. Why should he not pursue every woman he wants? its not like there's a rule that says he can't.
Thus, you will have to go on dates with women he's asked out. Just do it and say fuck it.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:31 PM on February 23, 2010
Acknowledging that he has every right to be a lothario would be a start with you. Why should he not pursue every woman he wants? its not like there's a rule that says he can't.
Thus, you will have to go on dates with women he's asked out. Just do it and say fuck it.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:31 PM on February 23, 2010
I think being Lothario's friend is an advantage. Lothario is fun. Lothario's friend must be fun. Lothario asks for a lot of numbers, goes out on a lot of dates, and gets a lot of attention. Lothario's friend doesn't, which makes him seem hard to get and mysterious. Lothario loves them and leaves them. Lothario's friend might not.
I'm not saying "stay Lothario's friend so you can get girls;" I'm saying "don't assume being Lothario's friend hurts your chances--it might improve them."
posted by sallybrown at 5:31 PM on February 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'm not saying "stay Lothario's friend so you can get girls;" I'm saying "don't assume being Lothario's friend hurts your chances--it might improve them."
posted by sallybrown at 5:31 PM on February 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
After a while, doesn't this guy's approach end up like the demographics of vampirism? Everyone's been turned, so there's no more food sources for him?
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 5:32 PM on February 23, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 5:32 PM on February 23, 2010 [4 favorites]
Anon, I'm not sure what your issue is.
Do you only want to date virgins? Do you only want to date women who have not dated anyone else before?
Or is it that you only want to date women who haven't slept with or dated anyone else you know? (It's okay if they've dated and/or slept with people you don't know, but probably not too many people.)
If it's the latter, then perhaps you should try meeting women through personal ads. These are likely to be people who haven't dated or slept with anyone that you know.
Perhaps, though, thinking about it this way will help you realize that it's okay to date someone even if they've traded digits with a mutual acquaintance. FWIW, my first major girlfriend had previously been my best friend's girlfriend. At the time it didn't seem weird at all, and it still doesn't.
posted by alms at 6:12 PM on February 23, 2010
Do you only want to date virgins? Do you only want to date women who have not dated anyone else before?
Or is it that you only want to date women who haven't slept with or dated anyone else you know? (It's okay if they've dated and/or slept with people you don't know, but probably not too many people.)
If it's the latter, then perhaps you should try meeting women through personal ads. These are likely to be people who haven't dated or slept with anyone that you know.
Perhaps, though, thinking about it this way will help you realize that it's okay to date someone even if they've traded digits with a mutual acquaintance. FWIW, my first major girlfriend had previously been my best friend's girlfriend. At the time it didn't seem weird at all, and it still doesn't.
posted by alms at 6:12 PM on February 23, 2010
Tips for getting out of the beta-male rut?
You could try competing with him (think of it like Reggie and Archie competing for Veronica) instead of complaining to a group of anonymous internet strangers (sorry, but I wish someone had given me good dating advice in university).
You may never have Lothario's charisma or the good looks that attract girls from across the room, but you can certainly pick up his flirting skills. Watch him and learn.
Since you don't have to flirt with every single girl in the room like he does, you can be more selective.
However, flirting with every single girl in the room has its upside: you can practice being a charmer, and you can manage your own expectations.
The key to avoid being a "beta male" is communication. If you like a girl, ask her to go on a "date".
The key to flirting is eye contact, asking questions, body language (nodding and listening), remembering information, and making small compliments.
Just because Lothario has her phone number doesn't block you out. Ask the girl if he's actually called her. Ask what they did on their date, and promise you can show her a better time (but make it as though you're joking).
All you have to do to avoid being a beta male is to ask girls out, period.
posted by KokuRyu at 7:01 PM on February 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
You could try competing with him (think of it like Reggie and Archie competing for Veronica) instead of complaining to a group of anonymous internet strangers (sorry, but I wish someone had given me good dating advice in university).
You may never have Lothario's charisma or the good looks that attract girls from across the room, but you can certainly pick up his flirting skills. Watch him and learn.
Since you don't have to flirt with every single girl in the room like he does, you can be more selective.
However, flirting with every single girl in the room has its upside: you can practice being a charmer, and you can manage your own expectations.
The key to avoid being a "beta male" is communication. If you like a girl, ask her to go on a "date".
The key to flirting is eye contact, asking questions, body language (nodding and listening), remembering information, and making small compliments.
Just because Lothario has her phone number doesn't block you out. Ask the girl if he's actually called her. Ask what they did on their date, and promise you can show her a better time (but make it as though you're joking).
All you have to do to avoid being a beta male is to ask girls out, period.
posted by KokuRyu at 7:01 PM on February 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
I, a girl, would much much rather date someone who doesn't get numbers from all the girls, and who isn't a good flirt, and who isn't perfect at being social. So, if I went out or hung out with both you and him (which I would do, if both of you called me), I would choose to actually date and form a more-than-friends relationship with the beta-male.
posted by KateHasQuestions at 7:17 PM on February 23, 2010
posted by KateHasQuestions at 7:17 PM on February 23, 2010
Yeah, just change who you're trying to be. If you don't want to be Mr. Instant Charmer, then it doesn't matter if he gets the number first. You could settle for being Mr. The Real Thing (Who Is Also Charming).
posted by salvia at 7:22 PM on February 23, 2010
posted by salvia at 7:22 PM on February 23, 2010
Also, as I think about boy friend-pairs I've known, I think sallybrown is right on:
I think being Lothario's friend is an advantage. Lothario is fun. Lothario's friend must be fun. Lothario asks for a lot of numbers, goes out on a lot of dates, and gets a lot of attention. Lothario's friend doesn't, which makes him seem hard to get and mysterious. Lothario loves them and leaves them. Lothario's friend might not.
You're also fun and charming, but a little less flashy and fast, and a little more steady and real.
posted by salvia at 7:28 PM on February 23, 2010
I think being Lothario's friend is an advantage. Lothario is fun. Lothario's friend must be fun. Lothario asks for a lot of numbers, goes out on a lot of dates, and gets a lot of attention. Lothario's friend doesn't, which makes him seem hard to get and mysterious. Lothario loves them and leaves them. Lothario's friend might not.
You're also fun and charming, but a little less flashy and fast, and a little more steady and real.
posted by salvia at 7:28 PM on February 23, 2010
I think being Lothario's friend is an advantage.
Nthing this. I lived with a guy like the one you're describing. When I was with him, there was never any awkwardness around starting conversations with girls. He started them all. Sometimes I ended up with the girl he didn't want, and sometimes I ended up with the girl who didn't want him. In either case, if he hadn't been there, I probably would have ended up alone.
There's a difference between being a beta male and just not being good at every little thing.
posted by bingo at 8:21 PM on February 23, 2010
Nthing this. I lived with a guy like the one you're describing. When I was with him, there was never any awkwardness around starting conversations with girls. He started them all. Sometimes I ended up with the girl he didn't want, and sometimes I ended up with the girl who didn't want him. In either case, if he hadn't been there, I probably would have ended up alone.
There's a difference between being a beta male and just not being good at every little thing.
posted by bingo at 8:21 PM on February 23, 2010
Go out with other friends to meet women and broader your social circle.
I've been in a similar situation, very close friend is gorgeous and the guys would always make a beeline for her over me. It's not personal, I've done it myself overlook the cute guy for the really cute guy and then later realized maybe I should have paid a little more attention to the cute guy who actually seemed interested in me. Everyone tends to gravitate towards the shiniest new thing in the room. If you are meeting new people, everyone can seem a bit the same at first and so people tends to go off looks more. It's different once you get to know someone better, but if it's just a first time encounter where you may or may not ever see the person again you don't have all that much to go off of. It's hard to really make an impression if you aren't the outgoing type or super attractive.
And I really would encourage you to broaden your horizons. When I moved to a new a city where the gorgeous friend was no longer always by my side, I suddenly met so many new guys. I really have to disagree with people who say it's an advantage, even when she's actively tried to redirect guys she knew I was interested in and step aside (she's engaged anyway) I don't think it's ever worked.
posted by whoaali at 9:09 PM on February 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
I've been in a similar situation, very close friend is gorgeous and the guys would always make a beeline for her over me. It's not personal, I've done it myself overlook the cute guy for the really cute guy and then later realized maybe I should have paid a little more attention to the cute guy who actually seemed interested in me. Everyone tends to gravitate towards the shiniest new thing in the room. If you are meeting new people, everyone can seem a bit the same at first and so people tends to go off looks more. It's different once you get to know someone better, but if it's just a first time encounter where you may or may not ever see the person again you don't have all that much to go off of. It's hard to really make an impression if you aren't the outgoing type or super attractive.
And I really would encourage you to broaden your horizons. When I moved to a new a city where the gorgeous friend was no longer always by my side, I suddenly met so many new guys. I really have to disagree with people who say it's an advantage, even when she's actively tried to redirect guys she knew I was interested in and step aside (she's engaged anyway) I don't think it's ever worked.
posted by whoaali at 9:09 PM on February 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
I'm in a girl with a Lothario! I totally went for him. And got over it. And then dated someone else in his social circle. It happens!
posted by NoraReed at 9:45 PM on February 23, 2010
posted by NoraReed at 9:45 PM on February 23, 2010
I've got to agree with whoaali. Meet some new people.
Like bingo, I lived with a guy like the one you're describing. But my experiences were more like whoaali's: when I was out someplace where this guy was, I had very little success meeting women, even when he tried to point them my way. He'd hit it off with everyone he talked to, and I'd have no luck with the girls.
Then circumstances changed, I was forced to broaden my social circle, and suddenly I met a bunch of women who were interested in me, all at once. My friend wasn't a problem, he was a symptom: he didn't attend events that women I'm compatible with were likely to be at.
posted by Serf at 11:58 PM on February 23, 2010
Like bingo, I lived with a guy like the one you're describing. But my experiences were more like whoaali's: when I was out someplace where this guy was, I had very little success meeting women, even when he tried to point them my way. He'd hit it off with everyone he talked to, and I'd have no luck with the girls.
Then circumstances changed, I was forced to broaden my social circle, and suddenly I met a bunch of women who were interested in me, all at once. My friend wasn't a problem, he was a symptom: he didn't attend events that women I'm compatible with were likely to be at.
posted by Serf at 11:58 PM on February 23, 2010
I have a buddy like this - he's a great guy, and/but/whatever he pulls the ladies to him like nothing else.
You know what? He's also great at helping his friends to those ladies (buddy is married, and even when he was dating/single, he'd still help buddies).
Talk to him, praise him on his magnetism and ask if he'd be willing to wingman for you or help you meet alpha-girl's friends. Hell, he'd single out us non-social guys and get us to be involved in schemes for him to flirt up some "unattainable" girl and (probably not) incidentally get us involved with alpha-girl's friends.
--
"...in all manner of mixed-gender, mixed-sexuality social contexts..."
In ongoing situations (ie., you see these people over and time again), Mr. Lothario isn't dampening your prospects if you don't let him. Be yourself (ie., don't worry about Lothario) and don't think so much about it and flirt with the ladies. Just do your thing. He's not cramping your style. Anything but.
posted by porpoise at 12:31 AM on February 24, 2010
You know what? He's also great at helping his friends to those ladies (buddy is married, and even when he was dating/single, he'd still help buddies).
Talk to him, praise him on his magnetism and ask if he'd be willing to wingman for you or help you meet alpha-girl's friends. Hell, he'd single out us non-social guys and get us to be involved in schemes for him to flirt up some "unattainable" girl and (probably not) incidentally get us involved with alpha-girl's friends.
--
"...in all manner of mixed-gender, mixed-sexuality social contexts..."
In ongoing situations (ie., you see these people over and time again), Mr. Lothario isn't dampening your prospects if you don't let him. Be yourself (ie., don't worry about Lothario) and don't think so much about it and flirt with the ladies. Just do your thing. He's not cramping your style. Anything but.
posted by porpoise at 12:31 AM on February 24, 2010
Seems like you can't help comparing yourself to him (why can't I be like that! what chances do I have with him around!) and that's eating away at you when you could be having fun instead. As someone with similar comparison obsessions, I understand.
The way you describe Lothario, hey, I'd give him my number! And go out with him. Why not? He's fun, he makes me feel good, he makes me feel interesting and like a fun person myself. What's not to like? That doesn't mean I'd automatically want a relationship with him. Particularly when I see him be like that to every girl in the room.
It also doesn't mean I wouldn't give the less dazzling, showy guy in the group my number or go out with him, too. If he talked to me. And showed me he enjoyed being with me.
The person I wouldn't go out with? That's the guy who's hanging round us with jealous eyes.
So yeah, I think you need to ignore the Lothario and turn on your own charm. However, it is hard to stop comparing yourself. Particulary when your self esteem has already been battered by countless occasions of hanging round Lothario. So perhaps you really should go out in different contexts, with different people, as well, just to give yourself a little space, your own success stories.
Also, I don't know if that is a problem but do you feel devalued by feeling like you only get to date another man's leavings, so to speak? If so, that's an attitude that's back into alpha-beta-male territory, and I think you need to ditch it. It won't do you any good and leads into objectifying.
posted by Omnomnom at 2:34 AM on February 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
The way you describe Lothario, hey, I'd give him my number! And go out with him. Why not? He's fun, he makes me feel good, he makes me feel interesting and like a fun person myself. What's not to like? That doesn't mean I'd automatically want a relationship with him. Particularly when I see him be like that to every girl in the room.
It also doesn't mean I wouldn't give the less dazzling, showy guy in the group my number or go out with him, too. If he talked to me. And showed me he enjoyed being with me.
The person I wouldn't go out with? That's the guy who's hanging round us with jealous eyes.
So yeah, I think you need to ignore the Lothario and turn on your own charm. However, it is hard to stop comparing yourself. Particulary when your self esteem has already been battered by countless occasions of hanging round Lothario. So perhaps you really should go out in different contexts, with different people, as well, just to give yourself a little space, your own success stories.
Also, I don't know if that is a problem but do you feel devalued by feeling like you only get to date another man's leavings, so to speak? If so, that's an attitude that's back into alpha-beta-male territory, and I think you need to ditch it. It won't do you any good and leads into objectifying.
posted by Omnomnom at 2:34 AM on February 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
I have a friend like this. We were roommates for a few years. We're both funny and relatively good looking (especially when we're a few pounds lighter), but he is far more outgoing. I take longer to warm up to people and they take longer to warm up to me. Sometimes, we would go out and he'd have several girls in his orbit all night. This would be fine, except when whatever girl he wasn't paying attention to would come talk and flirt with me-- until he was free again.
That was frustrating, but I didn't let that alter my behavior. I stayed confident but somewhat aloof. I was funny but a bit sarcastic. I didn't appeal to as many girls as he did; in a period when I'd take, say, 2 people home, he'd take 6. But you know what? Three of those six were some combination of crazy, or boring scenesters or cheating on their boyfriends with him. Unless sheer numbers are the goal, I don't really think of him as doing "better" than me.
We're both in great relationships headed towards marriage with attractive, interesting women. We both dated attractive, interesting women along the way. But he also dated women who cheated on him, threw him down a flight of stairs, broke into our house, ran up his credit card and purposely "forgot" to take their BC.
My point is this: stay confident, understand that women are going to be attracted to you for different reasosn than to him, and accept that there are advantages to having somewhat less widespread appeal.
posted by spaltavian at 8:38 AM on February 24, 2010
That was frustrating, but I didn't let that alter my behavior. I stayed confident but somewhat aloof. I was funny but a bit sarcastic. I didn't appeal to as many girls as he did; in a period when I'd take, say, 2 people home, he'd take 6. But you know what? Three of those six were some combination of crazy, or boring scenesters or cheating on their boyfriends with him. Unless sheer numbers are the goal, I don't really think of him as doing "better" than me.
We're both in great relationships headed towards marriage with attractive, interesting women. We both dated attractive, interesting women along the way. But he also dated women who cheated on him, threw him down a flight of stairs, broke into our house, ran up his credit card and purposely "forgot" to take their BC.
My point is this: stay confident, understand that women are going to be attracted to you for different reasosn than to him, and accept that there are advantages to having somewhat less widespread appeal.
posted by spaltavian at 8:38 AM on February 24, 2010
I just wanna make you aware of a type of woman that you appear not to know about: the type that consciously stays away from the Lothario. Your whole question is premised on the notion that good looking/charming/smoothalicious pretty boys always get the girl and, inversely, that women always seek out/want the good looking/charming/smoothalicious pretty boys. Error! Faulty logic.
Look, I don't know if I'm in the minority when I mention this, but FWIW: as soon as I meet one of these types, I start looking around for what else is out there. I'll take the average looking, not so smooth guy before I'll nestle in with Lothario.
Why is that? Well, I've been through this dating thing a few zillion times and my experience is that the Pretty Boys have personality traits and habits that I just don't want to deal with, namely, a need to be the center of attention, ego issues, not reining in the flirting when in a commited relationship, etc. Of course, not every Pretty Boy is like that, but...it's happened to me enough that I now automatically tune them out when I meet one.
I would say I'm a decent looking woman, but I'm no supermodel. I'm not comfortable being the Reacher and having him feel he's the Settler. I feel really uncomfortable dating someone who's over the top attractive like that. I want someone who's my equal not someone who's the focus of everyone's lust, which I guess is how you think people feel about this guy. I probably have a whole host of personal psychology that attaches to my not wanting to date someone model-esque, but I can't imagine I'm the only one who feels that way.
Also - shhhh - sometimes I trade phone numbers with Pretty Boy so he gets his kill and moves onto the next one.
posted by December at 9:42 AM on February 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
Look, I don't know if I'm in the minority when I mention this, but FWIW: as soon as I meet one of these types, I start looking around for what else is out there. I'll take the average looking, not so smooth guy before I'll nestle in with Lothario.
Why is that? Well, I've been through this dating thing a few zillion times and my experience is that the Pretty Boys have personality traits and habits that I just don't want to deal with, namely, a need to be the center of attention, ego issues, not reining in the flirting when in a commited relationship, etc. Of course, not every Pretty Boy is like that, but...it's happened to me enough that I now automatically tune them out when I meet one.
I would say I'm a decent looking woman, but I'm no supermodel. I'm not comfortable being the Reacher and having him feel he's the Settler. I feel really uncomfortable dating someone who's over the top attractive like that. I want someone who's my equal not someone who's the focus of everyone's lust, which I guess is how you think people feel about this guy. I probably have a whole host of personal psychology that attaches to my not wanting to date someone model-esque, but I can't imagine I'm the only one who feels that way.
Also - shhhh - sometimes I trade phone numbers with Pretty Boy so he gets his kill and moves onto the next one.
posted by December at 9:42 AM on February 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
You have an opportunity to learn; watch him and pay attention to how he charms women. In your own, sincere, way, practice what you learn. And pay attention to the good advice upthread.
posted by theora55 at 10:15 AM on February 24, 2010
posted by theora55 at 10:15 AM on February 24, 2010
Just wait for them to go through him and then make your move. Think of him like a Kleenex. If he doesn't have staying power and you do, then that makes you better off in the long run.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:09 PM on February 24, 2010
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:09 PM on February 24, 2010
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Your logic doesn't follow.
Call the girl, see who she's interested in.
posted by dfriedman at 3:57 PM on February 23, 2010 [2 favorites]