Which language should I learn?

February 20, 2010 8:00 PM

Should I learn Spanish, French or Madarin? Specific details inside.

Hi everyone. So some background info. I have a Bachelor's and a Masters, neither of them language related, and I moved to Toronto about two months ago.

I've been job hunting but no luck so far, and I decided that in addition to job hunting and studying for this securities course I am taking, I should pick up another language. But before I drop the money on Rosetta Stone, I thought I'd try to get some advice on which language to learn.

Spanish - Second most spoken language in the world. I'd ideally like to go to Latin America sometime in the future (I'm from the Caribbean), and work there. In addition, I do know a little Spanish, very basic, but I know how to conjugate some verbs, how to pronounce the alphabet, and a bit of vocabulary. However, I don't see a lot of jobs that demand bilingualism in English and Spanish.

French - 10th most spoken? I come across many jobs that require English/French, so it would be a definite advantage. However, I have essentially no experience in French apart from some vocabulary, so it would be harder. Is the job argument enough to learn French (I certainly think it is, especially as I'm jobless at the moment)? I do not really see myself having to use it in my personal life, unless I moved to Quebec right?

Madarin? - I have seen a few job opportunities that would require this, although not as many as French. There is a large Asian population here, and it is the world's most spoken language. In addition, I would like to work/live in Asia at some point too. However, it would be hard for me to learn as I have no experience in it. Also, China is a large economic power, and while I realize that not all 1billion people speak Mandarin, Wikipedia says 845 million people in the world do.

I'm wide open to suggestions. Also, please don't be harsh if I've made any logical fallacies in any of my reasoning.

Finally, I'm no sort of genius, so it is going to be pretty hard, I know. But I think a second language is a big asset.

posted by anonymous to Writing & Language (26 answers total)

I took French in high school and used it..um..never. However being in Ottawa, speaking French is probably a plus. In the US, there seems to be a lot of need for the Spanish language. I speak Spanish nearly every day because there are so many Latinos here who do not speak English well enough to understand things that are necessary to understand in regards to medical/legal/social services. Plus there are a whole bunch of countries in the world where Spanish is spoken so if you are planning to go to any of them, knowing Spanish is a good tool to have. If you plan to go into international business, I would suggest Chinese as China and India are slated to be the next big economic powers.
posted by MsKim at 8:08 PM on February 20, 2010

Is the job argument enough to learn French . ... I do not really see myself having to use it in my personal life, unless I moved to Quebec right?

If you want a public service job, French could be a non-negotiable job requirement, or something that could easily cut you out of the running if you didn't have it, even if it wasn't used much on the job. I think this is definitely the case in Quebec, and likely beyond that only within government jobs (particularly Federal, but possibly provincial).
posted by kch at 8:09 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]

The thing with Mandarin is that it would take a pretty long time to learn in comparison to the other two, and the fact that there's so many Chinese people means a lot of those job positions could likely be filled by native Chinese speakers. I'm not saying don't learn it, it definitely could/would be useful in some ways but it seems like French might be a more pragmatic bet for your purposes right now...
posted by the foreground at 8:12 PM on February 20, 2010

Ask yourself this: in which language group are the people you'd most like to meet and with whom would you most like to converse and make friends? This isn't the only consideration, and of course you have to be careful not to make this assessment based on stereotypes (and realizing that there's little else to go on), but it could help break a tie.
posted by amtho at 8:15 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]

I learned 2-3 latin languages first and then learned an Asian language...I would suggest starting with Spanish because it has the most bang for the buck in the job market or is at least the most marketable and more importantly the learning curve is much faster. Spanish is an already familiar sounding language and with latin languages the first 6 months to a year is hard then you get everything for free the more complicated words being the same as we use in english just with an accent difference.

Asian languages on the other hand, well, they take a lot more time, you get nothing for free and you're learning an entire new system. Japanese and Korean are much easier than Madarin...so you can learn Spanish or French in year or two, but if you're not living in Asian then the Asian languages will take a substantial ammount of time...but if you've never learned a language before let it be known that it's not all that hard if you work hard!

Another plus is...if you learn Spanish then you get half of French, Italian, etc for free!
posted by manwoo at 8:18 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]

Mandarin is my native language and after learning two other languages my conclusion is that Mandarin is F*CKING HARD.

Without going into too much details I can tell you that if you want to be able to use it somewhat during conversation and/or for work, you will have to spend quite some time and be committed. Doesn't take a genius but a dedicated person to learn a difficult language imo.

Since it's probably the most difficult of the three to learn, that would mean there's the least competition once you achieve your goal. Also being able to speak Mandarin when you don't look Asian is very, very cool (from Asian people's point of view). You will probably be treated like some sort of exotic animal.

If you do decide on Mandarin, do try to learn about the Chinese culture as it will only help your progress. Knowing the dominating languages and culture of both the Eastern and Western world will be a very eye-opening experience, I assure you. =)

Good luck!
posted by jstarlee at 8:49 PM on February 20, 2010

I think you should start with the language that has the most immediate use for you right now, which appears to be French. You can always start learning them when you have definite plans to need them.

French is the language I picked in high school but I wish I had went with Spanish as I wound up getting a few different jobs where it would have been invaluable to have. In your case though if French is what they want, then French is what you should have.
posted by amethysts at 8:56 PM on February 20, 2010

Living in Canada, I'd definitely go with French, as at least there, it opens up more doors than Spanish or Mandarin would. If you're thinking of leaving Canada, I'd go with Mandarin, just on the idea that China is supposed to (or already has) overtaken Japan as the global number 2 behind America in terms of economy.

Before you drop (a lot of) money on Rosetta Stone, given the number of speakers of French and Chinese in Canada, why not look for a private tutor, or possibly some adult extension language courses? A big part of learning a langauge is speaking it with a native speaker (every aspect of Japanese improved for me once I got over my fear of speaking it). After that, maybe look to Rosetta Stone as a supplement to lessons that focus on use of what you've been studying. Textbook knowledge of a language is no real substitute for using it.
posted by Ghidorah at 9:51 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]

I don't think learning any of those languages will help you to get a job in Toronto if you're not already receiving replies. Since you mention taking a securities course, I assume you're looking for jobs in the financial and banking industry.

Any job requiring any of the three will be pretty much limited to customer service or community liaison jobs, and as someone else mention, much more likely to be filled in by a native speaker. It's going to be difficult for you to raise your fluency to a level that is competitive with a native speaker. Not to mention that 1) demand for bilingual Spanish speakers is small, 2) there are lots and lots of university fresh graduates with French-immersion certificates (and presumably reasonable French fluency), and 3) Mandarin seeking jobs are starting to require Cantonese fluency as well.

I think you're much better off focusing on other ways to gain more interviews. Learning a second language is a good idea though, regardless if it'll help you land your next job. (If you plan to work in Ottawa or Quebec, then French is the obvious second language.)
posted by tksh at 10:05 PM on February 20, 2010

Mandarin is so, so hard. I say this as an overseas Chinese who only studied it as an adult. It's so different from English - none of the vocabulary is shared (unlike the Latin/Romance languages), the character system is entirely different, the tones are a bitch and so on so forth. The grammar is really easy, though.

Studying it was worth it for me, but it is very hard. Perhaps pick up Spanish or French first, and then - if you still want to study languages - try studying Mandarin. I vaguely recall some studies showing that your third language is a lot easier than your second.
posted by Xany at 10:11 PM on February 20, 2010

If you have more of an inclination toward Spanish, go with that. You'll have more success learning the language in which you're more interested.
posted by desuetude at 10:17 PM on February 20, 2010

I began learning Mandarin in my mid-20s and now it's how I earn my living (as a translator). That took a number of years of total immersion and to be honest my spoken accent is still really ropey considering how good my overall language level is and how long I've lived in China (better students than me have done much better in less time, I should add). I'm hoping to be on the forefront of making foreign accents sexy in Chinese but that's a bit of a tough ask in a tonal language. jstarlee is right that you get treated like some phenomenon if you're obviously non-Chinese and speak the language well though.
Really, desuetude has it right - I stuck with Chinese because I liked everything about the country, its history and culture and the people I've met here, plus I had some sort of natural affintiy with the written language - would annoy my classmates no end by remembering characters on a single reading while they all struggled to memorise long vocab lists. I meet plenty of ex-pats and even language students who hate the place or find some of the differences frustrating. I'd definitely factor your own personal inclinations and motivation higher than some rational calculus of the likely saleability of the language skill if you had it, as you have to acquire it for that to matter.
posted by Abiezer at 10:48 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]

French seems hard, but is in fact the easiest of the three languages. Sounds like learning French would also help you find a job. I'd say French!
posted by Lizsterr at 10:50 PM on February 20, 2010

As a white American who studied Mandarin extensively in college, it's really not that difficult a language... after two years. In my experience, and that of many of my classmates, it takes at least two years of serious study for tones to really click in your head and to learn enough written characters for the patterns and hints embedded in the system to be useful to you.

Having lived in Beijing for a couple of years, I have to say - don't do it. Everything is made of poison: the air, the food, the consumer products, everything. It's cheap, and you can have a really good time for awhile, but I didn't stop coughing until a year after I came back to the USA. I also found the business culture to be generally disagreeable.

If you want to spend some serious time in Asia, go Japanese. It's better for your health. Visit China, but don't live there.

From an employment perspective, it seems to me that jobs in Canada that require Mandarin are going to be service-oriented positions that will demand a level of proficiency that will take years and years of sustained effort to acquire. French and Spanish are a lot easier to pick up and start using right away.
posted by zjacreman at 10:55 PM on February 20, 2010 [2 favorites]

I'm going to write a bit about the 'difficulty' of Chinese. I'm not here to scare you off (quite the contrary, really), but at least I want you know how and why the Chinese language may or may not serve your interests.

Now, as a disclaimer: I realize that no language is difficult if you were brought up in the language, or if you have the attitude, interest and determination in learning the language as an adult. However, my reasons will tell you approximately why Chinese is relatively difficult for Westerners. I think my comments will be fair, because I've lived all of my life in an area where there are many Chinese people, so what I advise you comes from both observation and experience.

*****

Firstly, do realize that some native speakers of Chinese will still be adamant about speaking you in English, regardless of how fluent you are in their language, for any or a combination of the following reasons:

1. Business, because it's more convenient to speak a language everyone understands, and English is more universal;
2. Personal/cultural inclinations, because it's a real bother to speak to an 'outsider' who they think is trying too hard to be one of them, and because cultural views make it difficult to perceive foreign speakers of Chinese as anything but fluent.
3. Language practice, because they don't have adequate English speakers where they've been, and you're just the perfect native speaker they've been longing to meet.

The above three reasons alone might disappoint you, especially when you consider how much effort you've put into learning the language.

Secondly, do also realize that there are some other hurdles specific to the Chinese language that you must go over:

1. Chinese characters. You absolutely must learn them, if you want to be perceived as an educated adult. For Chinese, you need to know an average of 6000 characters (about twice the number of characters you need to learn for Japanese) to be 'fully' literate. Knowledge of the characters is crucial for both proficiency in the language, and to appreciate the various cultural mores spanning the history of the people.

2. Dialects. Dialects are a very important component of Chinese. There may be millions of Chinese speakers, but not all of them understand every dialect. Some of the dialects themselves are mutually intelligible, but quite several sound completely foreign to even Chinese speakers. You need to stick to one dialect or two, perhaps a city-based one, and then work on understanding the other dialects if they are necessary for where you live or work; however, the good thing about knowing Chinese characters however is that you can fully 'read' regardless of dialects.

3. Perceived worth. There are a huge number of Chinese speakers on Earth. Being able to speak Chinese won't exactly make you stand out in a crowd, especially if there are other local Chinese people around. (You will, however, as a Westerner, certainly turn heads, and impress buddies and (some) employers.) I'm not being racist when I say this (because it's the way real life works) European languages are often perceived to be classier, so it's hard to rack up 'smooth' points with Chinese, if that's your kind of thing.

However, if you still want to pick up the Chinese language knowing all this, go for it! I myself began on a journey through an Asian language (Japanese) some years back; it's been hard work throughout, but the journey's been totally worth it -- I've learned so much, gained a new window to the world, and the language will be useful in my working life as well.

Sadly, I can't help you much with Chinese beyond the above descriptions, but if you ever plan to pick up Japanese, I'd be happy to help and give specific tips.
posted by wz at 11:59 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]

If you get a job in Canada that requires French, your employer may actually pay for you to learn it. Plus, if you end up living overseas, there are Alliance Francaise everywhere who will basically pay you to learn French. (I paid around $25 Canuck for 6 weeks of lessons 3 times a week 2 hours each late last year in one of the richer non-Francophone African countries).

With the strong base you already have in Spanish and the desire to live in Lat. Am. you could easily take 2 weeks of immersion and be very ok. I started learning Spanish that way and paid just $100 (yankee bucks) a week for 4 hours of class a day and homestay in Xela, Guatemala, though that was a while back. Spanish is great in the Americas, but outside of Spain it really doesn't show up much in the Old World.

So my vote is for Mandarin but forget Rosetta stone and go with an instructor straight from China and do it through skype. My brother started this in T dot 2 years ago and used it a ton in his job in finance (definitely not customer service he was a senior analyst)- even though his employer would not pay for the lessons. He made lots of contacts this way and is now living in Asia starting his own company. Memail me if you want the name of the organization he studied through.
posted by pick_the_flowers at 12:24 AM on February 21, 2010

Without it being a dedicated effort, learning Mandarin is too involved to even bother beginning with. If you don't have a proper framework around your learning and can stay assured you're actually learning to pronounce things correctly, people will have a hard time trying to understand what you're saying. Mandarin as a dilettante isn't worth it.
posted by flippant at 12:53 AM on February 21, 2010

learn spanish. after learning spanish, which is relatively easy and in which you already have a background, learning french will be really easy given the similarities in grammar and even vocab, etc. but vice-versa is different, because the spanish accent and reading is easier, and plus usually if you know the gender of a word in spanish (which is mostly easy to figure out) it will be the same in french (where its not so easy to figure out).

also, french won't make you stand out in a place like canada where so many people already speak it, especially as your level won't be that high at least for a few years. however, spanish, which is really important in the rest of the continent, might make you stick out a bit more and a little goes a longer way since a lot of the others around you may not already be speaking it fluently.

like others have said, its important that the people and culture of the language interest you. make sure thats the case if you learn chinese, because there will always be enough 2nd generation chinese ppl in a country to fill those positions, so don't just do it for economic world power communication abilities, or however you want to say it.
posted by saraindc at 2:23 AM on February 21, 2010

Well, living in Canada french would probably be the most useful, far more useful then any other language I would imagine. It'll take a lot more work to learn Mandarin then French.

Also, don't bother with Rosetta stone for Chinese. I actually bought that when I was in high school and didn't work at all. When I was in college I took it for real and an ordinary textbook and regular memorization was far more efficient.
posted by delmoi at 2:29 AM on February 21, 2010

The fact that you're considering moving back to Latin America sometime in the future makes this choice pretty simple, I think. Would you prefer to live and work in Canada for the rest of your life? Learn French. Would you prefer to live and work in Latin America for the rest of your life? Learn Spanish. If you want to move back to Latin America, you may find that already knowing Spanish gives you an additional push in that direction. On the other hand, if you stay in Canada and learn French, you'll find yourself more culturally literate even if it doesn't net you a new job.
posted by estlin at 3:08 AM on February 21, 2010

I don't have a suggestion about which language you should choose (I did French from age 12 through college, and studied abroad in Cameroon; Spanish certainly would have been more helpful in my current daily life) but wanted to suggest that before you "drop the money" on Rosetta Stone, check to see if your local library has any language learning programs. My county library used to have Rosetta Stone online for registered patrons, but after the company stopped providing library access in 2008, replaced it with Mango Languages.
posted by candyland at 4:52 AM on February 21, 2010

I'm currently doing my Master's in French, attempted to learn Mandarin, and just started learning Spanish a little while ago.

Since you're in Canada, I'd suggest starting off with French. It's better in the short term as far as job opportunities go, and is MUCH less of a pain to learn than Mandarin. Plus, grammar-wise, French and Spanish are very similar; you'll have a major leg up in one after studying the other.

It's true that China is going to be an economic powerhouse; unfortunately, the language is, like I said, a right pain in the ass. It's pictographic, not alphabet-based and relies very heavily on differences in tone, which right off the bat puts you at a disadvantage, 'cause memorization of some 40,000 characters aside, your brain has to get used to a whole new way of thinking. A slight change in pitch could mean the difference between complimenting someone and insulting their mother.

On preview, I'll second what estin said; it all depends on your career goals. FWIW, though, I'd recommend French, then Spanish, then, if you have the time and a large enough masochistic streak, Mandarin.
posted by Tamanna at 5:58 AM on February 21, 2010

Given some people's warnings that if you learn Mandarin you'll never compete with native speakers or second-generation emigrants I feel I should add that in fact one of the reasons I earn a reasonable living translating is that I'm a native English speaker. I can write to a standard in English that almost no Chinese learner (I can write in Chinese but similarly fall down on certain subtleties of register and so on) and even very few native-level bilingual speakers can manage (as often they'll have spoken much more than they've read or formally studied).
If people want a cheap and cheerful translation of some instructions on how to use a gadget or whatever, they might well use one of the much cheaper agencies and if I'm offered that sort of work I usually turn it down (unless utterly broke); I get work from people who've written something complex and subtle in Chinese and want someone who can render that into a similar standard of English, and in such cases being a native speaker is an advantage. But as has been pointed out, it's a long slow process getting the level of Chinese to match.
posted by Abiezer at 6:55 AM on February 21, 2010 [1 favorite]

French.

It's required if you want a government job, and many many people speak French as a second language throughout the world. Spanish is actually quite easy to pick up, and if you become conversational in French, then if you go travelling in Latin America you will find it easy to pick up enough phrases to get by.

Mandarin is only really worth it if you want to live in China or would find the challenge fun.
posted by molecicco at 9:15 AM on February 21, 2010

Mandarin is a bitch to learn. If I'd applied the time I spent with it to Spanish instead, I'd be fluent. Instead, I can say "this is good soup!" and "where is the bathroom?" in a language that is mostly spoken in dialectical forms that are probably completely unintelligible to me anyway.

Learn Spanish.
posted by solipsophistocracy at 11:42 AM on February 21, 2010 [1 favorite]

Spanish
posted by icy at 4:48 PM on February 21, 2010