¿Qué es más douchebag, "preppy", "pineapple" or "knife"?
February 2, 2010 3:36 AM Subscribe
Lexicographicofilter: Have you seen the word "douchebag" used with a class-specific meaning, for example, to refer to preppies specifically?
A friend and I are discussing the meaning (or meanings) of the word "douchebag".
I (a non-native speaker of English, living in Australia) have never encountered it in a context where it suggests a specific social class. As far as I understand it, "douchebag" is a recent term for what used to be called an asshole.
He (a US native) defends that "douchebag" has multiple senses, one of which has a specific class connotation of preppiness — indeed, that sometimes the term "douchebags" seems to be used to refer to preppies in general, rather than singling out those who have some other salient negative attribute.
IIt's difficult to support a negative, so I don't think there are citations that support my understanding. But if you have examples of "douchebag" used to imply preppiness, please provide citations of use (in blog posts, blog comments, Wikipedia articles, magazine articles, audio recordings, TV shows...) that support my friend's point of view, they will be appreciated.
That or examples of the work of actual lexicographers doing what actual lexicographers do. Thanks!
A friend and I are discussing the meaning (or meanings) of the word "douchebag".
I (a non-native speaker of English, living in Australia) have never encountered it in a context where it suggests a specific social class. As far as I understand it, "douchebag" is a recent term for what used to be called an asshole.
He (a US native) defends that "douchebag" has multiple senses, one of which has a specific class connotation of preppiness — indeed, that sometimes the term "douchebags" seems to be used to refer to preppies in general, rather than singling out those who have some other salient negative attribute.
IIt's difficult to support a negative, so I don't think there are citations that support my understanding. But if you have examples of "douchebag" used to imply preppiness, please provide citations of use (in blog posts, blog comments, Wikipedia articles, magazine articles, audio recordings, TV shows...) that support my friend's point of view, they will be appreciated.
That or examples of the work of actual lexicographers doing what actual lexicographers do. Thanks!
Best answer: I have often heard it used in relation to people with an inflated sense of entitlement, which class some preppies may fall. But then again, that's arseholian behaviour, isn't it? (Australian-born, low-middle class).
posted by b33j at 3:56 AM on February 2, 2010
posted by b33j at 3:56 AM on February 2, 2010
Response by poster: b33j: my point with my friend is that you can have a nice preppy, but not a nice douchebag. Some preppies can be douchebags, yes, but that doesn't make the word "douchebag" mean "preppy".
posted by kandinski at 4:02 AM on February 2, 2010
posted by kandinski at 4:02 AM on February 2, 2010
Best answer: Douchebag is not in anyway class distinctive. Lots of people who aren't preppies are douchebags. For example, thicknecked 'juicers', a la Jersey Shore are widely regarded as the definitive douchebag, and they are pretty far from preppy.
posted by molecicco at 4:26 AM on February 2, 2010
posted by molecicco at 4:26 AM on February 2, 2010
Best answer: Yes, I've heard it used this way, but not often, and only in a specific time and place. The time was about five years ago, and the place was a private university in college, specifically, the honors student dorm. And "douchebag" was used in tandem with "bro" to speak derisively about the spoiled rich kids who were going to school on their parents' dime, majoring in stuff like Communications or Business, running a C average, and snapping up all the girls that the honors dorm kids couldn't or didn't have the time to attract. I'm sorry that I don't have any citations for you, because I purged all of my IM logs from years ago, but from a certain section of my friends the term "douchebag" immediately implied a popped collar, a big shiny belt buckle on a white belt, gelled hair, and the tendency to go to class the next day still drunk and have their dads call in an excuse to the professor.
Douchebag in general is a very flexible word in the US, and it seems to be undergoing a renaissance of sorts. But it only means "preppy" when the usual object of one's scorn is, in fact, preppy.
posted by Mizu at 4:27 AM on February 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
Douchebag in general is a very flexible word in the US, and it seems to be undergoing a renaissance of sorts. But it only means "preppy" when the usual object of one's scorn is, in fact, preppy.
posted by Mizu at 4:27 AM on February 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
Best answer: As far as I understand it, "douchebag" is a recent term for what used to be called an asshole.
Correct. Asshole is still perfectly valid.
And for certain examples of the species the term "Douchebag Asshole" may not be redundant.
posted by three blind mice at 4:41 AM on February 2, 2010
Correct. Asshole is still perfectly valid.
And for certain examples of the species the term "Douchebag Asshole" may not be redundant.
posted by three blind mice at 4:41 AM on February 2, 2010
Best answer: This Youtube vid, We Are Douchbags, demonstrates several different "types" of the wild American Douchbag, and the Preppie is well-represented, as is the "Sporto" and the Guido. Language is NSFW.
posted by thebrokedown at 4:42 AM on February 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 4:42 AM on February 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Ah, my favourite word.
I've never thought it had any class connotations either. Its meaning is somewhere in the crossover zone between arsehole and wanker, in my mind (Australian, edging toward middle class).
posted by procrastinator_general at 5:02 AM on February 2, 2010
I've never thought it had any class connotations either. Its meaning is somewhere in the crossover zone between arsehole and wanker, in my mind (Australian, edging toward middle class).
posted by procrastinator_general at 5:02 AM on February 2, 2010
Best answer: An expert and infallible collection of the biggest douchebags of the decade would seem to support you over your friend.
I think your friends use of "asshole" is regional, in the northeast an asshole has always been a term of derision and abuse, my understanding that in the south it means more like rich kids.
posted by shothotbot at 5:09 AM on February 2, 2010
I think your friends use of "asshole" is regional, in the northeast an asshole has always been a term of derision and abuse, my understanding that in the south it means more like rich kids.
posted by shothotbot at 5:09 AM on February 2, 2010
Best answer: my understanding that in the south it means more like rich kids.
Not in my experience. Asshole--and douchebag, to address the OP--are both pretty generic catchalls for a person worthy of scorn.
I think douchebag just may have a connotation based on what type of douchebags the speaker tends to be around. If one is at a private university, as someone above, then douchebag probably = spoiled rich kid. If you're on the Jersey Shore, douchebag probably = Pauly D and "The Situation"
posted by jckll at 5:59 AM on February 2, 2010
Not in my experience. Asshole--and douchebag, to address the OP--are both pretty generic catchalls for a person worthy of scorn.
I think douchebag just may have a connotation based on what type of douchebags the speaker tends to be around. If one is at a private university, as someone above, then douchebag probably = spoiled rich kid. If you're on the Jersey Shore, douchebag probably = Pauly D and "The Situation"
posted by jckll at 5:59 AM on February 2, 2010
Best answer: When I was in college, people used it to refer to preppy guys, but not in a socioeconomic sense. Often a popped collar on an Abercrombie t-shirt (or multiple layered) was seen as the definitive sign of a douche in his natural environment. Their hair was often overly gelled. So if dude had $30 to buy one of those shirts and a thing of gel, he, too, could be a douchebag.
posted by emilyd22222 at 6:04 AM on February 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by emilyd22222 at 6:04 AM on February 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I think "douchebag" is more closely akin to "butthole" than asshole. To me, "asshole" implies, primarily, intent. Buttholes/douchebags have a lower level of cognition or introspection. So while Rush Limbaugh is an asshole, most teabaggers are merely buttholes or douchebags.
posted by notsnot at 6:23 AM on February 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by notsnot at 6:23 AM on February 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I’ve started to encounter what I think is a new meaning of the word, where is means not just “asshole” but a specific social type.
If you look a the video that shothotbot links to – those guys aren’t just all assholes. They are all within a pretty narrow range of social types – young, white, jockish, hair-gell-wearing, fake-tan-having, etc. Or check out hipster or douchebag: On this page, douchebag is definitely presented as a distinct social type- that same mix of bullyish behaviors, club-going, popped collar, that hair gel again, etc. (I think both the hipster and the douchebag are presented as being assholes, but only the douchebag is a douchebag). If you do a google image search on the word, substantially more than half the images you see cluster around this social type. (Again – they’re all presented as assholes- but a very socially specific kind of asshole)
I think the old meaning survives of course – the guy who cuts you off in traffic is still a “douchebag” in the sense of “asshole” for cutting you off, even if, say, he's an old hippy, or a skinny graduate student. But I think there’s a new second meaning of the word that *does* refer to a specific social type.
(Whether that social type is class-based is another question. To me, it looks like a pretty working-class aesthetic, with aspirational displays of wealth [expensive stuff] and older signals– popped collars – associated with preppies many years ago. But I’m just really taking stabs here….)
posted by ManInSuit at 6:31 AM on February 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you look a the video that shothotbot links to – those guys aren’t just all assholes. They are all within a pretty narrow range of social types – young, white, jockish, hair-gell-wearing, fake-tan-having, etc. Or check out hipster or douchebag: On this page, douchebag is definitely presented as a distinct social type- that same mix of bullyish behaviors, club-going, popped collar, that hair gel again, etc. (I think both the hipster and the douchebag are presented as being assholes, but only the douchebag is a douchebag). If you do a google image search on the word, substantially more than half the images you see cluster around this social type. (Again – they’re all presented as assholes- but a very socially specific kind of asshole)
I think the old meaning survives of course – the guy who cuts you off in traffic is still a “douchebag” in the sense of “asshole” for cutting you off, even if, say, he's an old hippy, or a skinny graduate student. But I think there’s a new second meaning of the word that *does* refer to a specific social type.
(Whether that social type is class-based is another question. To me, it looks like a pretty working-class aesthetic, with aspirational displays of wealth [expensive stuff] and older signals– popped collars – associated with preppies many years ago. But I’m just really taking stabs here….)
posted by ManInSuit at 6:31 AM on February 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Not-american speaker not-living in US here (yahoo!) but I clearly remember an episode of Family Guy when Stewie tells Brian "I am going to Baby Gap so I can look like a Baby Douche".
posted by madeinitaly at 6:32 AM on February 2, 2010
posted by madeinitaly at 6:32 AM on February 2, 2010
(On preview - yeah - what emilyd22222 said - that specific social type... )
posted by ManInSuit at 6:34 AM on February 2, 2010
posted by ManInSuit at 6:34 AM on February 2, 2010
Best answer: As I use it, the word can have both meanings. Either generic (He stood you up? What a douche!) or more specific. The specific connotation, for me and the people I know, refers to guys with a serious sense of entitlement. It's not exactly class-specific, though.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:24 AM on February 2, 2010
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:24 AM on February 2, 2010
Best answer: There's an example of this in the literal video version of Total Eclipse of the Heart at the 1:20 mark or so.
posted by ODiV at 7:30 AM on February 2, 2010
posted by ODiV at 7:30 AM on February 2, 2010
Best answer: He (a US native) defends that "douchebag" has multiple senses, one of which has a specific class connotation of preppiness
I'm familiar with this sense of it. I live in the Northeast. Before the term became so popular in its "asshole" meaning, there was definitely a sense of it applying to entitled folks, as showbiz_liz puts it. I don't think about that sense of it much anymore but when the word was first around, I felt that it more applied to people who were douchebags because they were insufferable and stuck up [which, around here, was the sort of entitled preppy stereotype] not just assholes. Can't find specific cultural supporting evidence, but that's my recollection.
posted by jessamyn at 7:37 AM on February 2, 2010
I'm familiar with this sense of it. I live in the Northeast. Before the term became so popular in its "asshole" meaning, there was definitely a sense of it applying to entitled folks, as showbiz_liz puts it. I don't think about that sense of it much anymore but when the word was first around, I felt that it more applied to people who were douchebags because they were insufferable and stuck up [which, around here, was the sort of entitled preppy stereotype] not just assholes. Can't find specific cultural supporting evidence, but that's my recollection.
posted by jessamyn at 7:37 AM on February 2, 2010
Best answer: I definitely think it has a socioeconomic connotation. Like ManInSuit said, the class markers associated with douchebags have less to do with how expensive the possessions are, per se, and more how they reflect the person's priorities in spending that money on outward signs of wealth. It doesn't take a rich person to afford a $30 Abercrombie t-shirt, but it does take someone with a skewed, douchey sense of what a reasonable use of $30 is. Note that while displays of wealth are common in other communities too, for example in low-income black communities, people in those communities don't usually get labeled as "douchebags," in my experience anyway. Which leads me to think that it's a particular kind of upper/middle class (and mostly white) consumer culture that's associated with the word. I don't think there's an upper limit on how rich someone can be and still be a douchebag, though; if anything, I think wealth and douchiness tend to go together.
For example, see this video, where a consultant (who's only medium-rich) refers to a banker (super-rich) as a "d-bag."
posted by albrecht at 7:40 AM on February 2, 2010
For example, see this video, where a consultant (who's only medium-rich) refers to a banker (super-rich) as a "d-bag."
posted by albrecht at 7:40 AM on February 2, 2010
Best answer: In my Long Island Catholic all-boys high school in the early 70s, everyone was a douchebag. We were all middleclass (though some moreso than others), so draw your own conclusions.
posted by tommasz at 7:56 AM on February 2, 2010
posted by tommasz at 7:56 AM on February 2, 2010
Best answer: You might want to check out the answers to this related ask mefi question about when the term's recent popularity began to rise.
posted by Xalf at 8:02 AM on February 2, 2010
posted by Xalf at 8:02 AM on February 2, 2010
Best answer: In December, the Gawker sister site Jezebel posted a blog titled 4 Reasons the Douchebag has Jumped the Shark.
In November, the Slate blog Double X had a post titled In Defense of a More Stringent Use of the Word "Douchebag".
Both apply to what you're asking.
posted by purpleclover at 8:40 AM on February 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
In November, the Slate blog Double X had a post titled In Defense of a More Stringent Use of the Word "Douchebag".
Both apply to what you're asking.
posted by purpleclover at 8:40 AM on February 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
It used to be a generic insult. Within the last 3-4 years it's gotten a lot more specific. In particular it describes the breed of asshole who spikes his hair and wears Affliction t-shirts.
posted by valadil at 9:43 AM on February 2, 2010
posted by valadil at 9:43 AM on February 2, 2010
Best answer: Where I'm from, a college town, "douchebag," while sometimes not used in reference to an actual frat boy definitely connotes the frat boy type. I'm not sure if this is equivalent to the "preppie" type.
As someone mentioned this really refers to an inflated sense of self and entitlement. Probably some aspect of misogyny or chauvinism too, but that's kind of chicken-and-egg there.
posted by cmoj at 10:48 AM on February 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
As someone mentioned this really refers to an inflated sense of self and entitlement. Probably some aspect of misogyny or chauvinism too, but that's kind of chicken-and-egg there.
posted by cmoj at 10:48 AM on February 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: When I think of the word "douchebag" I do tend to think of a preppy frat boy or preppy business type. However, anyone can be a douchebag.
posted by Nattie at 11:28 AM on February 2, 2010
posted by Nattie at 11:28 AM on February 2, 2010
Best answer: In my house, anyone can be a douchebag, but preppies don't get much benefit of the doubt. We apply that label much more easily to those of the pink-polo-and-popped-collar persuasion. I suppose that could just be because those guys are more prone to douchebaggish behavior, but in my mind the model douchebag is inherently preppy.
This is just some random blog post I pulled off Google, but it summarizes my position pretty well.
posted by lilac girl at 7:30 PM on February 2, 2010
This is just some random blog post I pulled off Google, but it summarizes my position pretty well.
posted by lilac girl at 7:30 PM on February 2, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks all, that was very enlightening.
posted by kandinski at 9:02 PM on February 3, 2010
posted by kandinski at 9:02 PM on February 3, 2010
Best answer: One more data point: if you're familiar with the current season of Project Runway at all, two of the contestants offer a bit of contrast.
Jonathan (the hipstery-looking one who holds up the scissors at the end of the opening credits and intones "My weapon of choice.") comes off as a total douchebag, but hasn't shown himself to be an asshole in his interactions; whereas Jesse (the one who had a big hand in getting Ping eliminated from the show) has shown himself to be kind of an asshole, but his look (despite being the "preppiest" contestant in the group) doesn't read as douchebag to me.
To me, it comes down to mannerisms & presentation (overly affected: you're a douchebag) versus social engagement (unnecessarily mean-spirited: you're an asshole).
posted by kittyprecious at 9:00 AM on February 7, 2010
Jonathan (the hipstery-looking one who holds up the scissors at the end of the opening credits and intones "My weapon of choice.") comes off as a total douchebag, but hasn't shown himself to be an asshole in his interactions; whereas Jesse (the one who had a big hand in getting Ping eliminated from the show) has shown himself to be kind of an asshole, but his look (despite being the "preppiest" contestant in the group) doesn't read as douchebag to me.
To me, it comes down to mannerisms & presentation (overly affected: you're a douchebag) versus social engagement (unnecessarily mean-spirited: you're an asshole).
posted by kittyprecious at 9:00 AM on February 7, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by mareli at 3:46 AM on February 2, 2010