Direct deposit between people, possible?
January 31, 2010 5:29 AM   Subscribe

My husband's ex-wife wants child support in cash. Bad idea to do so? Or really, really bad idea?

Background: H pays child support in two payments a month, on his paydays 15th and 31st of month. He writes his ex-wife the checks and gives them to her on the Sundays she picks up son. Checks are post-dated, so she deposits them on those days. (As far as I know, she has not deposited early and put his account in the negative, so this has been working just fine for years)

So this week, she emails and says that due to her bank changing policy, she has an extra couple days of hold time on the money, so can he give her cash from now on so she can have access to the funds immediately?

I am all for her being able to have the money available on the 15th and 31st, but giving her cash makes me all kinds of uncomfortable. 1) No accountability, we can't prove payment was made to her. 2) She has expected my husband to drive to her work and give her cash before, so I don't know what she thinks he's going to do, drive over to her place of work two times a month to drop off cash at the front desk? That's an hour of his time, during his work day. 3) It is unreasonable on its face, legally he can say no, but practically to say no to her opens him up to insinuations and outright comments that he doesn't care about his son's welfare. This seems to be a huge motivating factor for him.

What options do we have to get her the money, available right away, paper trail method, don't have to drive 20 miles to do so.... if we had her account info, could we direct deposit her? Encourage her to open a second account that we deposit into, which she can transfer from?

Also since someone will say it: This has nothing to do with how the son gets treated, he is very loved, spoiled and happy. None of the grownups engage in negative words or actions around him. I just don't believe that one party should be able to bully and get their way because they can pull the "You must not care about the child because you dare disagree with me" card, and the other must meekly abide.
posted by anonymous to Work & Money (46 answers total)
 
I dunno about all the legalities, but you could just pick up one of those receipt type books at an office supply store-I used to work for a rental department and we would give receipts to people who paid cash all the time...sounds like a question for his divorce lawyer, tho, really.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:41 AM on January 31, 2010


I'm just going to say that you are spot-on in being uncomfortable. Cash leaves no proof. She could later demand the money again in court and use the stopping of checks as evidence that you stopped paying.
posted by debbie_ann at 5:43 AM on January 31, 2010 [1 favorite]


Bad idea. Can you work out your finances to just date your checks two days earlier? Can your husband and his ex open a joint account that he can set up with recurring direct transfer/deposit and she can access with an atm card?

Regardless of how well everyone gets along don't give up the paper trail.
posted by Barnsie at 5:44 AM on January 31, 2010 [12 favorites]


Is there any way to time the checks so they clear on the day she needs the money?

And from your post, I can't imagine why anyone would say this has anything to do with the way the child is treated.

But without sounding snarky, your last line about the mother of a child who needs money to support her child from the child's father being a bully does not sound very understanding or nice.

I'd let Dad figure this out without any comments from you, frankly.
posted by dzaz at 5:44 AM on January 31, 2010


What options to we have to get her the money....

Your best option is what you've been doing. Checks do the trick and work for everyone; she's just trying to control you & your ex. Ignore her antics and ignore her guilt trips. If she makes a bigger and bigger deal of it, calmly tell her that if it's sooo important to her she can take you to court (which she probably won't, since she'd no doubt up to something sketchy wanting cash!).

All that's important here, like you mentioned at the end, is that the child is loved and well-treated. Since your husband's payment schedules have helped that happen, there's no need to change anything.
posted by motsque at 5:44 AM on January 31, 2010


if we had her account info, could we direct deposit her?

Ask your bank. They might even be able to set it up as a periodical payment so that funds get transferred automatically on the nominated days of the month; my credit union can certainly do this. Transfers will show up on Mr Anonymous's bank statements, and he can show Ms Ex-Anonymous the periodical payment schedule; that gives him some chance she'll get mad at the bank computer instead of him if a payment is ever late.
posted by flabdablet at 5:48 AM on January 31, 2010 [6 favorites]


Direct transfer into her bank account by standing order twice monthly on those dates?
posted by koahiatamadl at 5:49 AM on January 31, 2010 [8 favorites]


It's not your husband's job to manage the finances in his ex's home. It's her job to adapt when her bank changes policy, or when she changes jobs & her paycheck is interrupted, or when unexpected expenses come up. It's your husband's obligation to provide support, most likely in a monthly amount, for his child. I don't know what country/state you are in but if it's possible and not complicated, it might be a good idea for your husband and his ex to take advantage of the child support enforcement department in your jurisdiction. That way child support can be taken directly out of his paycheck, and deposited via direct deposit into her bank account. No more driving, no more bi-weekly financial discussions, no more financial discussions whatsoever. It sounds harsh to go through child support enforcement but it actually can reduce the day-to-day drama. Even if he doesn't use that option, cash is not a good idea for the reasons stated. As you suggested, if she opened an account in the same bank where your husband's money is, he could just make deposits directly into her account. Still, that's time/effort he's spending every other week driving to the bank and making deposits.
posted by headnsouth at 5:54 AM on January 31, 2010 [5 favorites]


I wouldn't give her the cash.

The bank can't just increase hold times on a whim; they're required to make funds available according to Reg CC. Local checks have the first $100 available the day after the deposit, and the remainder available two days after the deposit. This has been the case for as long as I've had a bank account (and likely for your son's entire life), and the definition of a local check is broader than it was even a year ago. If her hold times have increased, it's because the account was overdrawn enough in the past six months to allow it.

Encourage her to open a second account that we deposit into, which she can transfer from?

ING Direct lets you do this—person-to-person transfers from their Electric Orange checking account to another ING Direct account instantaneously. Transfers to other banks take two business days. USAA also lets you push money into other people's accounts, but if your husband and his ex-wife can both open accounts at ING (or some other bank that supports instantaneous transfers between its customers), that's probably the best solution.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 5:56 AM on January 31, 2010


I wouldn't assume it is more that she says it is but I also would not give cash. Isn't it easy enough to just send the check a few days early each month?
posted by InkaLomax at 5:56 AM on January 31, 2010


are available instantaneously
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 5:57 AM on January 31, 2010


Where in the world are you? You should be able to just do an online bank transfer twice a month which would credit her account the same day.

Otherwise, just walk into any branch of her bank and make a direct deposit with a receipt.
posted by turkeyphant at 6:06 AM on January 31, 2010


I'd date the checks 2-3 days earlier. Problem solved.
My bank also allows a "bill pay" electronic payment type of setup, but I'm not sure how it works.
posted by mazienh at 6:19 AM on January 31, 2010


I believe a US Postal Money Order can be cashed immediately at any Post Office and most banks (although I have never done this myself, so I may be mistaken). I know people use them to send money through the mail when they don't want to send cash.
posted by Falconetti at 6:27 AM on January 31, 2010


seems she wants to play games with IRS. Tell her to change to a bank that does things she prefers. Or follow some of the sound advice posted here.
posted by Postroad at 6:37 AM on January 31, 2010 [3 favorites]


Give her a cashiers check or a money order, which will give her immediate access to the fund, but deduct the fees for this (if your bank charges one) from the amount. You've got a paper trail, she's got the funds right away and everything is cool.
posted by Brian Puccio at 6:44 AM on January 31, 2010


When my parents wanted to get me cash (from a different state) they just walked into my bank armed with my account number and made the deposit in cash. There was no 'hold' time for cash, so it was available pretty much right away.

Is there a branch of her bank nearby? If you get her account number you could make the deposit there, then you'd have a receipt and a paper trail. She'd get her money, there wouldn't need to be any out of the way travel, and you'd still have a little bit of a paper trail.

I agree that she sounds like she's doing something a little skeevy, but she really could just be tight and need the money quicker. Just make sure that your husband is getting some kind of proof that he's actually paying and let the rest go.
posted by TooFewShoes at 6:54 AM on January 31, 2010


If she takes the check to a branch of YOUR bank, they should cash it for her and give her the cash immediately. There may be a charge to her but that's her problem.

She could change banks to the one you use and the funds should be available immediately.
posted by Flacka at 7:11 AM on January 31, 2010 [1 favorite]


I wouldn't. I made my first child support payment to my ex in cash and she later denied that I had done so -- which made me liable for the money to the state. In effect I had to pay twice. Go through the proper channels.
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 7:23 AM on January 31, 2010 [6 favorites]


Ex-divorce lawyer here. Never, ever pay in cash. Set up an electronic interbank transfer.
posted by essexjan at 7:26 AM on January 31, 2010 [15 favorites]


What turkeyphant, essexjan and others said -- many people I know use direct deposit/interbank transfer for support payments. Immediate access, can be automated, and leaves a paper trail. Solves all your problems.
posted by liquado at 7:42 AM on January 31, 2010


Don't do this. Do not do this. Don't even do this. My ex got to double dip and call me in arrears because he convinced me that paying in cash would be more helpful, then he convinced the court that gosh, I hadn't paid for two whole years. Don't do this at all. Too bad they have to wait a little longer, life is tough.
posted by headspace at 7:47 AM on January 31, 2010


Mentioned above, but cashier's checks came to my mind as well. If I remember correctly, you fill out the payee on money orders, and the bank fills out the payee on a cashier's check, so the cashier's check is just one step safer (in terms of a paper record) than a money order. The bank keeps a copy, you keep a copy, and of course she gets a copy. The money is deducted from your account as soon as you get the check, so she can go get cash as soon as she picks up the check.

This would probably work quite well for her and in terms of the record, but would be a pain for you, since you would probably have to wait in person to get the casher's check, and might have to pay (about $5) for it - though I think it would be fair to ask her cover that charge, and deduct it from the payment.

It might be a good interim measure while you get the electronic transfer set up, which sounds like a much better long term solution. Of course, IANAL.
posted by insectosaurus at 7:49 AM on January 31, 2010


I sympathize with her on the check issue because banks have gotten really awful about checks, but I think an electronic payment is the solution to this problem, not cash.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:50 AM on January 31, 2010 [1 favorite]


If they both have accounts at the same bank, he may be able to make same tranfers on his pay day. Another option is for him to get an online bank like ing direct and link herbank account for purposes of transfer.
posted by bananafish at 8:18 AM on January 31, 2010


If you cannot do the wire transfer, and I cannot see why you cannot, find a third party, trustee to receive cash from your hubby and distribute it to her. THis should be a lawyer or someone with a fiduciary obligation to do so.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:42 AM on January 31, 2010


As everyone else has said EBT is the answer.

You might also want to ask why she's doing this. Either she's bounced a few checks lately and is having money problems, or she was preparing to get into a legal fight later about the payments. I'd have your husband inform her of the switch to electronic fund transfer, but also try to discern what her other problems are.
posted by benzenedream at 8:51 AM on January 31, 2010


Tell her to open an account at your bank. Or be nice and open one at hers. Pretty much all large banks have online banking and it's super-easy to transfer between accounts. My parents and I do this all the time when I owe them money or they reimburse me for something. You can just set up a recurring transfer.
posted by radioamy at 9:44 AM on January 31, 2010


Direct deposit is common and easy. I can do it from my internet banking. Also, my parents have gone into their local branch of my bank and deposited money straight into my account. In fact I think they can do that online too - we share the same bank.

There is no reason to give her cash. I can see why checks could become a pain with holds and stuff. Just work out a banking solution. It will be easy. If she resists then you know something else is going on.
posted by smartypantz at 9:57 AM on January 31, 2010


I use my online banking to "send checks" to other people's/business accounts on Date X. The money is always in their account at the start of business on the date I've specified.

Under no conditions, EVER, should you pay a legal debt in cash, receipt or no receipt.
posted by dejah420 at 10:04 AM on January 31, 2010


This sounds like a terrible idea.
posted by number9dream at 10:35 AM on January 31, 2010 [1 favorite]


Putting a date on the check really doesn't do anything. It can be cashed as soon as it's been written. Do not depend upon post-dating.

A check can be cashed directly from any branch of the issuing bank. If she wants the cash faster all she has to do is take the check to a local branch of that bank and cash it right then and there. She need not have an account at that bank, just appropriate ID.

Or your husband could take cash to a local branch of her bank and make a deposit right into her account. He'd get a receipt from the bank in the process.

The better alternative, and one that's been suggested several times, is to use an electronic transfer. Most banks these days have websites that will let you do this. They also have means to set it up as a recurring transaction. If your bank doesn't do this then seriously consider switching to a new bank.

And it bears repeating, NEVER GIVE CASH FOR THIS SORT OF THING. That's just a TERRIBLY BAD IDEA.
posted by wkearney99 at 12:41 PM on January 31, 2010


I know it doesn't solve the cash vs. check issue, but I've had multiple banks work with me to get money deposited right away. Most of the time the problem is having enough money in the account the check is coming from, and a quick call to the bank which owns that account can confirm the money amount and allow payment. Next time you could try providing her with the phone number to your bank and allow her to explain to them why she needs the money that day. This is her problem, after all.
posted by semp at 1:18 PM on January 31, 2010


Don't do this, do a bank transfer instead. If she insists, contact an attorney. I know it sounds extreme, but it's strictly business: you need to cover your ass.
posted by autoclavicle at 1:38 PM on January 31, 2010


Nthing "don't do cash," but chiming in to suggest that as it sounds like your husband wants to meet his ex-wife halfway, which is a nice impulse (and it sounds like their relationship has been characterized by this kind of civility, which is great for your stepson, obviously), he might offer to open an account at her bank, and set up his paychecks to direct-deposit there, and then the standing order for the child-support payment to go twice a month.

Would be nicer than "that's your problem," which it's actually really great that your husband doesn't like to say.

Finally, disagree about the IRS, as I don't think child support payments are charged to her, anyway?
posted by palliser at 1:46 PM on January 31, 2010


paypal?
posted by ishotjr at 1:50 PM on January 31, 2010


If she's used to having the money available to her on the 15th and the 31st (and her finances are so tight that she *needs* it on those days to pay her bills) and the issue is that the bank is now holding the money for three days, couldn't he just write her the checks dated for the 12th and the 28th?
posted by Jacqueline at 1:57 PM on January 31, 2010


Paypal? Even aside from the fees which you wouldn't have with a check or EBT, Paypal would be a terrible way to get the money to her. That's not a good suggestion at all.
posted by 6550 at 1:58 PM on January 31, 2010


"seems she wants to play games with IRS."

No. Child support is not taxable (and child support payments are not tax-deductible).
posted by Jacqueline at 2:01 PM on January 31, 2010


One small comment on the "delay" that the system causes... The delay only happens once. After that initial wait, she will be receiving the money in the same amounts and at the same intervals as before. Even if (and this is a gigantic "if") that initial wait somehow affected the child's care, it would only occur once. Checks are fine, electronic bank transfers are fine, a shared account is fine, cash is not.
posted by milqman at 2:03 PM on January 31, 2010


Some employer payroll offices will do split direct deposits. So he could have the amount of child support deposited directly into her account, and the remainder deposited into his.
posted by media_itoku at 4:04 PM on January 31, 2010


It's not your husband's job to manage the finances in his ex's home. It's her job to adapt when her bank changes policy, or when she changes jobs & her paycheck is interrupted, or when unexpected expenses come up.

This.

Yes, cash is a terrible idea. Either send the checks a couple of days early (heck, mail 'em if you want) or set up an electronic payment.
posted by desuetude at 4:17 PM on January 31, 2010


Bank of America allows instant transfer between accounts with immediate availability up to a reasonable amount (I think $6k a month, and you can personally call and ask for a larger transfer amount with Customer Service). My employer uses this to pay me and it's great--better than direct deposit, because there are no fees. You can both open up fee-free checking accounts and get started right away.
posted by timoni at 8:03 PM on January 31, 2010


It's not your husband's job to manage the finances in his ex's home. It's her job to adapt when her bank changes policy, or when she changes jobs & her paycheck is interrupted, or when unexpected expenses come up.

Sure, but co-parents often have better success in their task overall when they approach issues like this with "how can we solve this?" rather than "who has the rights here?" Within limits, of course, but his impulse that he'd rather go out of his way a bit to make things easier on her (such as by offering to open an account at her bank, rather than vice versa), even if he couldn't be forced to by a court of law, and even if it's her job, isn't a bad one.
posted by palliser at 8:46 PM on January 31, 2010


Not sure if this works where you live, but in Canada you could try an Interac email money transfer- this is how I used to collect rent from my subletter.

The person making the deposit just goes into their bank account, chooses an email address to send the money to, and writes a security question to ensure that it goes to the right recipient. I'd get an email saying "You have an Interac transfer from Andrew", answer the security question ("What is pseudostrabismus' favourite breakfast?" or something silly like that) and then the money would go straight into my chequing account so I could access it online or from an ATM that same day. There's no hold period, and it's really easy and convenient for both recipients.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 6:51 AM on February 1, 2010


I don't know if this is applicable in other states, but the Ohio Child Support Enforcement Agency's website states that any child support payments made directly to the custodial parent (rather than through the agency) are considered gifts... meaning, even if you have a receipt or cancelled check, the state would consider you in arrears for all those direct payments.

I don't know if that would apply if a case had never been opened with CSEA in the first place, but the sound of that is scary enough that I'd definitely check with the child support enforcement agency in your state just to make sure.

Here's a link to the Ohio site for reference:

http://jfs.ohio.gov/Ocs/faq.stm#ce11
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 9:19 AM on February 1, 2010


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