He has an ugly website, should he be told?
January 25, 2010 9:19 PM Subscribe
Can I tell someone (whom I don't know well at all) that their online presence is extremely dated and probably doing them more harm than good?
I recently met someone who is extremely gifted in one area (an independent curator for a first rate art exhibit). He is definitely looking to parlay his success, doing more of the same. He will have a really good chance of doing another even better exhibit because he garnered some favorable notice. I can be supportive of his effort and probably be of some value to him (I have good contacts in the area he is hoping to reach). Everything about this person is great...EXCEPT when I visited the curating website I discovered that he has linked his illustration website to it as well. He was an illustrator in the 80's and 90's and even though the work is technically ok, the subjects and styles look tired and passe'.
I want to advise him to ditch his illustration from his curating website....but I can not think how to do that without coming across as an asshole. It would be unsolicited advice and I know firsthand how irked I can get when someone, anyone, "critiques" me (especially without my specific request).
I realize it is not my place, but he has a good opportunity to do more work like he did recently and I want to see to it that he does (because it would also be a good opportunity for myself and others). He managed to do the last exhibit while this awful website was accessible...but the next rounds should be reaching even more discriminating people (who may very well take one look at the old junk and chalk him up as a loser).
Suggestions? Is there any classy way to tell someone that they look like they are stuck in yesterday?
I recently met someone who is extremely gifted in one area (an independent curator for a first rate art exhibit). He is definitely looking to parlay his success, doing more of the same. He will have a really good chance of doing another even better exhibit because he garnered some favorable notice. I can be supportive of his effort and probably be of some value to him (I have good contacts in the area he is hoping to reach). Everything about this person is great...EXCEPT when I visited the curating website I discovered that he has linked his illustration website to it as well. He was an illustrator in the 80's and 90's and even though the work is technically ok, the subjects and styles look tired and passe'.
I want to advise him to ditch his illustration from his curating website....but I can not think how to do that without coming across as an asshole. It would be unsolicited advice and I know firsthand how irked I can get when someone, anyone, "critiques" me (especially without my specific request).
I realize it is not my place, but he has a good opportunity to do more work like he did recently and I want to see to it that he does (because it would also be a good opportunity for myself and others). He managed to do the last exhibit while this awful website was accessible...but the next rounds should be reaching even more discriminating people (who may very well take one look at the old junk and chalk him up as a loser).
Suggestions? Is there any classy way to tell someone that they look like they are stuck in yesterday?
No. He'll figure it out himself if he's as great a curator as you say he is. Editing other people's work is a skill that one applies to oneself just the same. Leave him be. It could very well be that if you bring this up, no matter how delicate, you will do nothing more than harm your prospects of working with him.
posted by Mizu at 9:25 PM on January 25, 2010
posted by Mizu at 9:25 PM on January 25, 2010
Response by poster: well, that's just it, Mizu, he has not edited himself well.
posted by naplesyellow at 9:28 PM on January 25, 2010
posted by naplesyellow at 9:28 PM on January 25, 2010
Response by poster: dfriedman, his curating website is fine, but he has linked his illustration website to his curating website..and the illustration website sucks.
posted by naplesyellow at 9:28 PM on January 25, 2010
posted by naplesyellow at 9:28 PM on January 25, 2010
"I had a great idea for a really slick and user-friendly design for your illustration website! [Make suggestion here, not just outright criticism]"
posted by so_gracefully at 9:33 PM on January 25, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by so_gracefully at 9:33 PM on January 25, 2010 [2 favorites]
Wait a second, I reread and realized I assumed you were talking about the design of the website being tired and passe, when you might be talking about the style of his actual illustrations. If that's the case, and you're critiquing his actual work, it's none of your beeswax and leave it alone.
posted by so_gracefully at 9:38 PM on January 25, 2010
posted by so_gracefully at 9:38 PM on January 25, 2010
Sorry, that was snarky. But I do think this is a bad idea any way you spin it. Find a way to ignore the illustrations, and focus on his recent work that you enjoy.
posted by beepbeepboopboop at 9:40 PM on January 25, 2010
posted by beepbeepboopboop at 9:40 PM on January 25, 2010
Maybe let him know that you'd love to advise him on getting other curating work; if he's interested, talk to him over lunch, dinner, or tea (or whatever), and see if he seems receptive; it's a delicate thing that you'd have to gauge in person. If it works out, maybe say something like his web site needs to be more focused on curatorial pursuits, and that the illustration, while technically great (mention a favorite or two), might be stylistically and otherwise distracting. Maybe suggest setting up a separate space for it, since it's probably close to his heart.
Of course this is like curating, but it's got to be hard to curate your own stuff (probably another argument you could make: he wouldn't put his own art in an exhibit he was curating, would he?)
Good luck, and good on you for caring enough to struggle with this.
posted by amtho at 9:41 PM on January 25, 2010 [3 favorites]
Of course this is like curating, but it's got to be hard to curate your own stuff (probably another argument you could make: he wouldn't put his own art in an exhibit he was curating, would he?)
Good luck, and good on you for caring enough to struggle with this.
posted by amtho at 9:41 PM on January 25, 2010 [3 favorites]
Oh -- I just realized that the illustration isn't actually on the same web site. Maybe it's not an issue? That's more difficult.
posted by amtho at 9:42 PM on January 25, 2010
posted by amtho at 9:42 PM on January 25, 2010
I don't know much about the world of the art curator, but is that truly how people are hired for such positions? As an example, I visit websites of video production houses all the time, and think "Dear god, if they're website looks this poor how can they possibly put together any good video production." But amazingly enough - they do.
I would apply the same principle here - his illustrations may not strike you, but does that make him any less of a viable candidate? Ignore the website and the content, and work toward helping him with the contacts you mentioned.
posted by shinynewnick at 10:54 PM on January 25, 2010
I would apply the same principle here - his illustrations may not strike you, but does that make him any less of a viable candidate? Ignore the website and the content, and work toward helping him with the contacts you mentioned.
posted by shinynewnick at 10:54 PM on January 25, 2010
A data point:
my dad's business website was designed by someone with FrontPage in the late '90s. It looked shitty then and looks shitty now.
I have done the following:
- offered to redesign it (late '90s)
- put him in touch with a friend's offshore design firm (early '00s - refused to work with non-'mericans)
- explained to him how I even reject DOG WALKERS with shitty websites (late '00s)
But if he isn't using the web enough to SEE that no one's site looks like his anymore and that this may impact business, he is in the same category as those with avocado colored bathrooms, VHS players and the like - nothing you say will make a difference.
posted by k8t at 11:06 PM on January 25, 2010
my dad's business website was designed by someone with FrontPage in the late '90s. It looked shitty then and looks shitty now.
I have done the following:
- offered to redesign it (late '90s)
- put him in touch with a friend's offshore design firm (early '00s - refused to work with non-'mericans)
- explained to him how I even reject DOG WALKERS with shitty websites (late '00s)
But if he isn't using the web enough to SEE that no one's site looks like his anymore and that this may impact business, he is in the same category as those with avocado colored bathrooms, VHS players and the like - nothing you say will make a difference.
posted by k8t at 11:06 PM on January 25, 2010
Was he a professional illustrator? Either commercially or in the art world? I ask because he could be linking to the illustration site to underscore his experience, history, age, etc.. I can imagine that a new curator who had a previous life as a working artist would mean something different than—and perhaps be more desirable than—a young curator without that experience, a student fresh out of school, etc.
If the illustrations are high school sketches or just for fun then your take on it might be correct. But I don't think you can just dump the critique and run.
There are a couple scenarios in which you could tell him. One is if you are a more experienced curator yourself. Advice from elders to the fresh, though sometimes difficult to hear, is generally fine, and usually (eventually) appreciated.
The other is if you suggest working together. You say that there are upcoming projects that you'd like to see him work on and that would benefit you. If you approach it as a partnership—that you want to work with him to further both his career and yours—then the advice can end up being part of a discussion about, for instance, how you market yourselves.
posted by wemayfreeze at 12:54 AM on January 26, 2010
If the illustrations are high school sketches or just for fun then your take on it might be correct. But I don't think you can just dump the critique and run.
There are a couple scenarios in which you could tell him. One is if you are a more experienced curator yourself. Advice from elders to the fresh, though sometimes difficult to hear, is generally fine, and usually (eventually) appreciated.
The other is if you suggest working together. You say that there are upcoming projects that you'd like to see him work on and that would benefit you. If you approach it as a partnership—that you want to work with him to further both his career and yours—then the advice can end up being part of a discussion about, for instance, how you market yourselves.
posted by wemayfreeze at 12:54 AM on January 26, 2010
"Hey Curator Friend,
I was looking at your website and saw your link to your illustrations from the '80's and '90's. While they are great, I am not sure they are appropriate for your curating website.
I am going to be referring you to Big Players soon, and they are quite meticulous in their outlook when choosing curators. I want to see you presented in the best light so that you can be successful, since did you such a fantastic job curating this recent exhibit.
This is just a suggestion, but in my experience, these sorts of minor details can make a huge difference in whether you are chosen by museums to curate their exhibits. Would you consider removing the link? There is nothing wrong with your illustrations, but in my opinion they do not mesh with the look and feel of the work you are seeking to perform.
Sincerely,
Naplesyellow"
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 1:45 AM on January 26, 2010 [7 favorites]
I was looking at your website and saw your link to your illustrations from the '80's and '90's. While they are great, I am not sure they are appropriate for your curating website.
I am going to be referring you to Big Players soon, and they are quite meticulous in their outlook when choosing curators. I want to see you presented in the best light so that you can be successful, since did you such a fantastic job curating this recent exhibit.
This is just a suggestion, but in my experience, these sorts of minor details can make a huge difference in whether you are chosen by museums to curate their exhibits. Would you consider removing the link? There is nothing wrong with your illustrations, but in my opinion they do not mesh with the look and feel of the work you are seeking to perform.
Sincerely,
Naplesyellow"
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 1:45 AM on January 26, 2010 [7 favorites]
What Marie Mon Dieu said 1,000 times. You're not suggesting that he take the illustration site down or burn the drawings, only that he break the link to the curating site.
posted by fixedgear at 2:27 AM on January 26, 2010
posted by fixedgear at 2:27 AM on January 26, 2010
If the illustration is not professional (as in, he doesn't pursue illustration as a business) suggest he sever the ties between his professional and personal sites.
Doesn't mean people might not go looking and find it anyway, but there is a difference: if you link to your blog from your business site, you're saying "another reason you may wish to hire me is that I'm a cool guy, brah." It is amateur and unprofessional. (Note, I am talking about "these are my kids, here's my dog, I like this movie, here's my opinion on politics", not a blog related to the business.) Whereas if people type his name into google and find his illustration site, they will shrug it off as not relevant to the curating, just something he's done in the past.
If it were me, I'd probably be blunt: "Hey, your curating is awesome and we can take it to the next level, but anything off-message on your portfolio site is going to send those type of folks to the next person. The illustration site has nothing to do with curating and will likely typecast you in a way that will limit your opportunities. The people at this next level are all very careful and if they feel like they have to say 'check this guy out, but ignore the link to...' they're not going to use you."
posted by maxwelton at 2:33 AM on January 26, 2010
Doesn't mean people might not go looking and find it anyway, but there is a difference: if you link to your blog from your business site, you're saying "another reason you may wish to hire me is that I'm a cool guy, brah." It is amateur and unprofessional. (Note, I am talking about "these are my kids, here's my dog, I like this movie, here's my opinion on politics", not a blog related to the business.) Whereas if people type his name into google and find his illustration site, they will shrug it off as not relevant to the curating, just something he's done in the past.
If it were me, I'd probably be blunt: "Hey, your curating is awesome and we can take it to the next level, but anything off-message on your portfolio site is going to send those type of folks to the next person. The illustration site has nothing to do with curating and will likely typecast you in a way that will limit your opportunities. The people at this next level are all very careful and if they feel like they have to say 'check this guy out, but ignore the link to...' they're not going to use you."
posted by maxwelton at 2:33 AM on January 26, 2010
Seconding; I often make the recommendation (as a web professional) that "you shouldn't link those two sites together, since they have a different audience and visual style" when what I want to say is "holy fuck, site #2 is sabotaging everything you've gained with site #1"
posted by davejay at 2:35 AM on January 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by davejay at 2:35 AM on January 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
Is there any conflict of interest in having an illustration site linked to a curating site? You know, in the sense that if you hire him as a curator, that it would open you up to having him throw in some of his own work into a show?
If there's a way to couch it that a link to anything, no matter WHAT the quality, would make people think that, it may help. That way it's not about the quality of his work, it's simply about the fact that it's a conflict-of-interest thing.
I know nothing about how the art world works, so if this doesn't apply, I apologize.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:32 AM on January 26, 2010
If there's a way to couch it that a link to anything, no matter WHAT the quality, would make people think that, it may help. That way it's not about the quality of his work, it's simply about the fact that it's a conflict-of-interest thing.
I know nothing about how the art world works, so if this doesn't apply, I apologize.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:32 AM on January 26, 2010
Editing other people's work is a skill that one applies to oneself just the same.
My experience has always been the opposite. It's a different ability. Skill. Editing someone else's work is so much, much easier than editing one's own.
In the particular case, I'd go lateral by suggesting something else that also has the side effect you're looking for.
"You know, your (great) illustration work is sort of a distraction from what you do now. Maybe you shouldn't connect them, so people see you as an expert curator?"
posted by rokusan at 4:39 AM on January 26, 2010
My experience has always been the opposite. It's a different ability. Skill. Editing someone else's work is so much, much easier than editing one's own.
In the particular case, I'd go lateral by suggesting something else that also has the side effect you're looking for.
"You know, your (great) illustration work is sort of a distraction from what you do now. Maybe you shouldn't connect them, so people see you as an expert curator?"
posted by rokusan at 4:39 AM on January 26, 2010
A friend of mine has a blog wherein she offers to pass along difficult criticisms like this.
posted by bingo at 6:49 AM on January 26, 2010
posted by bingo at 6:49 AM on January 26, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
Apologies if I am completely misunderstanding the complaint here.
posted by dfriedman at 9:24 PM on January 25, 2010