How do I snag this gig and retain my dignity?
January 23, 2010 8:07 AM Subscribe
I got a call from my last boss who (managed the guy who) fired me at my last job over two years ago. He called out of the blue yesterday and left a voicemail about a contracting opportunity. How can I navigate this?
A few years ago I worked for a startup run by two co-founders: a business guy and the tech guy. I was on the tech side, and the tech guy, my boss, was the best example of a micromanager I've had so far. Lots of late nights, midnight calls, and bad outsourced code being held together by me. I was paid livably-but-low (75K, Unix Sysadmin in the SF Bay Area), but I feel I undersold my skills and role. This company was acquired by a large company that you've probably heard of about 8mos in.
Moneywise, he promised a salary review that did not happen, but once we were acquired I was "promoted" and given a raise, not realizing that this lateral move was the Peter Principle in action: I was given a choice and chose the position I was an interested beginner in, not the one in which I was a seasoned pro. This strategy doesn't work very well in large companies and I was fired about four months later (six months after acquisition) by a development manager that OldBoss had hired to go in between us while he ascended to middle-management in the new company. I am in my early 40s, single, and have the kind of experience that definitely contributed to the acquirability of the company, not that I should have been a partner or anything, just that I deserved more than for my efforts than a $10K bonus and a tripling of my commute time, not to mention the guillotine.
My firing caused continuing tension and alienation with my family and friends. My dad (who was never much on my side anyway) was always wondering what "the real story" was. Mom and brother figure it was just me not holding down another job (I had taken a sabbatical of choice before this job). I lost a longtime friend who could not understand that there was nothing wrong with me. There has been tremendous pressure both from within and without to "do something" with my life. My Dad passed away about six months after I was fired, and I was in the midst of the worst relationship I have ever been in, until a year ago when my girlfriend and I broke up and I decided to do my own thing, programmingwise.
I've been learning programming (Ruby on Rails) and working on a project with some friends that could really be something, at the very least a sweet portfolio piece, which I would still work on it even if I was contracting/employed. I have found (so far) that I do not have a lot of motivation to freelance. I'm kind of a loner so I don't have a large network to probe, and Craigslist has been pretty depressing when it comes to feeling out freelance gigs. I believe I have what's called "a serious cashflow problem," thus I could really, really use the income. I have almost completely exhausted my savings working and learning over the past year since my year of unemployment ran out. I have about three months until I am absolutely broke. I also will eventually have some tax problems to sort out.
My problem is that I would be negotiating from a position of abject weakness, and given all of the stress I've been under I don't know how to rise above that and come off as anything but a sadsack who's desperate and ready to take anything for any amount. I already read Get Rich Slowly and I Will Teach You To Be Rich for negotiating techniques, but if there are any better, perhaps more hard-ball resources out there, I'm all eyes and ears. Couple these with the opportunity coming from a less-than ideal character from my past, and I'm quite conflicted between my human brain saying, "sure, anything would be nice," and my lizard brain saying "fuck that guy." Actually, maybe it's the other way around.
throwaway email: amfunknown@yahoo.com
A few years ago I worked for a startup run by two co-founders: a business guy and the tech guy. I was on the tech side, and the tech guy, my boss, was the best example of a micromanager I've had so far. Lots of late nights, midnight calls, and bad outsourced code being held together by me. I was paid livably-but-low (75K, Unix Sysadmin in the SF Bay Area), but I feel I undersold my skills and role. This company was acquired by a large company that you've probably heard of about 8mos in.
Moneywise, he promised a salary review that did not happen, but once we were acquired I was "promoted" and given a raise, not realizing that this lateral move was the Peter Principle in action: I was given a choice and chose the position I was an interested beginner in, not the one in which I was a seasoned pro. This strategy doesn't work very well in large companies and I was fired about four months later (six months after acquisition) by a development manager that OldBoss had hired to go in between us while he ascended to middle-management in the new company. I am in my early 40s, single, and have the kind of experience that definitely contributed to the acquirability of the company, not that I should have been a partner or anything, just that I deserved more than for my efforts than a $10K bonus and a tripling of my commute time, not to mention the guillotine.
My firing caused continuing tension and alienation with my family and friends. My dad (who was never much on my side anyway) was always wondering what "the real story" was. Mom and brother figure it was just me not holding down another job (I had taken a sabbatical of choice before this job). I lost a longtime friend who could not understand that there was nothing wrong with me. There has been tremendous pressure both from within and without to "do something" with my life. My Dad passed away about six months after I was fired, and I was in the midst of the worst relationship I have ever been in, until a year ago when my girlfriend and I broke up and I decided to do my own thing, programmingwise.
I've been learning programming (Ruby on Rails) and working on a project with some friends that could really be something, at the very least a sweet portfolio piece, which I would still work on it even if I was contracting/employed. I have found (so far) that I do not have a lot of motivation to freelance. I'm kind of a loner so I don't have a large network to probe, and Craigslist has been pretty depressing when it comes to feeling out freelance gigs. I believe I have what's called "a serious cashflow problem," thus I could really, really use the income. I have almost completely exhausted my savings working and learning over the past year since my year of unemployment ran out. I have about three months until I am absolutely broke. I also will eventually have some tax problems to sort out.
My problem is that I would be negotiating from a position of abject weakness, and given all of the stress I've been under I don't know how to rise above that and come off as anything but a sadsack who's desperate and ready to take anything for any amount. I already read Get Rich Slowly and I Will Teach You To Be Rich for negotiating techniques, but if there are any better, perhaps more hard-ball resources out there, I'm all eyes and ears. Couple these with the opportunity coming from a less-than ideal character from my past, and I'm quite conflicted between my human brain saying, "sure, anything would be nice," and my lizard brain saying "fuck that guy." Actually, maybe it's the other way around.
throwaway email: amfunknown@yahoo.com
I deserved more than for my efforts
Let. it. go.
If you trim from your paragraphs-long question everything that is not relevant to your current situation, you're left with one sentence: do I want this job I'm being offered?
Somebody you used to work is offering you a job. Your dad, your girlfriend, your other friend, all your couldas and shouldas about the last job are completely irrelevant. Don't go in with a big chip on your shoulder, still nursing grudges over your last job and try to play hardball negotiator.
Find out what he's offering. If it sounds worth it, take it. If it doesn't, say no, or ask for an amount that would be worth it. It's that simple.
posted by ook at 9:17 AM on January 23, 2010 [4 favorites]
Let. it. go.
If you trim from your paragraphs-long question everything that is not relevant to your current situation, you're left with one sentence: do I want this job I'm being offered?
Somebody you used to work is offering you a job. Your dad, your girlfriend, your other friend, all your couldas and shouldas about the last job are completely irrelevant. Don't go in with a big chip on your shoulder, still nursing grudges over your last job and try to play hardball negotiator.
Find out what he's offering. If it sounds worth it, take it. If it doesn't, say no, or ask for an amount that would be worth it. It's that simple.
posted by ook at 9:17 AM on January 23, 2010 [4 favorites]
Start clean. He doesn't know about your personal life. It has nothing to do with the job. The job you need.
Obviously, you have some talent that he wants. Go for it.
posted by SLC Mom at 9:25 AM on January 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Obviously, you have some talent that he wants. Go for it.
posted by SLC Mom at 9:25 AM on January 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
You are human. Being human means that you should discount directions from your "lizard brain". Being human also means that discounting these kinds of directions is difficult, but it is often also rewarding.
posted by Mr. Justice at 9:33 AM on January 23, 2010
posted by Mr. Justice at 9:33 AM on January 23, 2010
Your lizard brain is dead wrong. By your own story you're the one who made the choice to put yourself in a position to get fired. Your old boss is the guy who gave you the opportunity to make the right choice, and he's doing it again. Make the right choice this time—take the job.
posted by carsonb at 9:37 AM on January 23, 2010
posted by carsonb at 9:37 AM on January 23, 2010
High-level managers don't think of the firings they do as personal, and they prefer to imagine that the employees didn't take them that way, either. He has a position to fill, and he thought of you because he knows you can do the work. It has nothing to do with your family, your friends, what you deserved, or Ruby On Rails.
Anyway, in terms of negotiating it: it's a contract position. If you think it will be tolerable, just take it and solve your financial problems. Later, if it turns into a long-term opportunity, you can evaluate whether any past experiences really factor in to your approach.
posted by bingo at 10:04 AM on January 23, 2010
Anyway, in terms of negotiating it: it's a contract position. If you think it will be tolerable, just take it and solve your financial problems. Later, if it turns into a long-term opportunity, you can evaluate whether any past experiences really factor in to your approach.
posted by bingo at 10:04 AM on January 23, 2010
Your getting a call because you're considered capable and the boss is open to renewing relations with you.
I'm a little confused whether the boss who's calling is the tech guy or the management guy. Anyway, the point is this call couldn't come at a better point since you do have a really small network and have been on your own plus you don't like freelancing.
From a financial as well as getting you into paid work routine standpoint, this is excellent. There is a probability that your Ruby on rails project might slow down because of this but you won't go broke in 3 months. After which, you will have close to a completing stage of the ruby on rails project in order to show it in your portfolio and you will have done a contracting gig, that's two big ups plus you are not financially broke.
After rereading about who's calling you, I'm presuming it's the guy who's the tech guy who ascended into middle management and hired the guy who fired you who didn't like the fact that you were in a position where you learn a lot from.
Here's the best part: you've gotten a call from your old boss who YET considers you capable even though you were fired by his subordinate. Maybe that subordinate has been fired, maybe that subordinate has been kept and promoted but either way it does not seem that you have to deal with the subordinate or ex-subordinate whoever it may be.
In the event that you have to, you can try and accept the job partially because of the money and partially because you deal with the guy again but on different terms because you are a "contractor" not an employee OR you can attempt to get out there more, advertise your skills, work on self-promotion or go take a part-time job somewhere that pays the bills while you work on your ruby on rails project. Either way, take a look at what the contract offers and then take a decision, maybe it pays well enough for you to prefer that to a part time gig.
posted by iNfo.Pump at 10:10 AM on January 23, 2010
I'm a little confused whether the boss who's calling is the tech guy or the management guy. Anyway, the point is this call couldn't come at a better point since you do have a really small network and have been on your own plus you don't like freelancing.
From a financial as well as getting you into paid work routine standpoint, this is excellent. There is a probability that your Ruby on rails project might slow down because of this but you won't go broke in 3 months. After which, you will have close to a completing stage of the ruby on rails project in order to show it in your portfolio and you will have done a contracting gig, that's two big ups plus you are not financially broke.
After rereading about who's calling you, I'm presuming it's the guy who's the tech guy who ascended into middle management and hired the guy who fired you who didn't like the fact that you were in a position where you learn a lot from.
Here's the best part: you've gotten a call from your old boss who YET considers you capable even though you were fired by his subordinate. Maybe that subordinate has been fired, maybe that subordinate has been kept and promoted but either way it does not seem that you have to deal with the subordinate or ex-subordinate whoever it may be.
In the event that you have to, you can try and accept the job partially because of the money and partially because you deal with the guy again but on different terms because you are a "contractor" not an employee OR you can attempt to get out there more, advertise your skills, work on self-promotion or go take a part-time job somewhere that pays the bills while you work on your ruby on rails project. Either way, take a look at what the contract offers and then take a decision, maybe it pays well enough for you to prefer that to a part time gig.
posted by iNfo.Pump at 10:10 AM on January 23, 2010
There's something off here. Are you saying that your mom, dad, brother and longtime friend all let your employment status color their relationship with you? Long time friends and family have established opinions of you. They don't decide there's something wrong with you because you got fired. It sounds like there's another issue here. I mention this because whatever is going on is impacting your professional life. You need to let go of this stuff, because it's diminishing your opportunities for a happy life. A chat with a professional in this area might be a good way to start some long-term change that will benefit both sides of the work/life balance.
In the short-term, you need a job. This is someone who is familiar with your skills and work ethic who'd like to offer you a gig. That's something of a confidence builder - they know you and want you. There's no secret to good negotiations - know your worth, know what your willing to accept, ask.
posted by 26.2 at 10:14 AM on January 23, 2010
In the short-term, you need a job. This is someone who is familiar with your skills and work ethic who'd like to offer you a gig. That's something of a confidence builder - they know you and want you. There's no secret to good negotiations - know your worth, know what your willing to accept, ask.
posted by 26.2 at 10:14 AM on January 23, 2010
A guy who fired you now wants to rehire you.
This will look good on your employment record.
Take it. You need a job!
posted by tel3path at 10:27 AM on January 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
This will look good on your employment record.
Take it. You need a job!
posted by tel3path at 10:27 AM on January 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Let. it. go.
If you trim from your paragraphs-long question everything that is not relevant to your current situation, you're left with one sentence: do I want this job I'm being offered?
Totally agreeing with ook and pretty much everyone else. You're going into this with a bunch of (self-maintained) baggage that the guy calling doesn't know or care about, or he wouldn't be calling.
Take the job and stop agonizing over all this peripheral stuff. You're in a much better position to apply for other things if you're already employed.
posted by oneirodynia at 10:38 AM on January 23, 2010
If you trim from your paragraphs-long question everything that is not relevant to your current situation, you're left with one sentence: do I want this job I'm being offered?
Totally agreeing with ook and pretty much everyone else. You're going into this with a bunch of (self-maintained) baggage that the guy calling doesn't know or care about, or he wouldn't be calling.
Take the job and stop agonizing over all this peripheral stuff. You're in a much better position to apply for other things if you're already employed.
posted by oneirodynia at 10:38 AM on January 23, 2010
This weekend, research the going contract-hourly rate for the work you expect to be asked to do. Pad that by at least 25%. Tell that total to the person when asked your rate. If the work is work you can do, take the work.
You've put some pretty heavy shame spiral baggage on this situation, and it's not doing you any favors and doesn't really make a lot of sense. Reframe the situation: You lost a job in the upheaval of acquisition and politics, which happens all the time. Turns out they need you after all. HA HA!
You're not negotiating from a position of weakness, the guy who let you get let go is. You know the product, which I'm going to guess is not something just anybody off the street can offer. You're an expert. Be an expert.
This guy doesn't need to know you need work. It sounds like the work needs you, and that's a great position to be in.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:47 AM on January 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
You've put some pretty heavy shame spiral baggage on this situation, and it's not doing you any favors and doesn't really make a lot of sense. Reframe the situation: You lost a job in the upheaval of acquisition and politics, which happens all the time. Turns out they need you after all. HA HA!
You're not negotiating from a position of weakness, the guy who let you get let go is. You know the product, which I'm going to guess is not something just anybody off the street can offer. You're an expert. Be an expert.
This guy doesn't need to know you need work. It sounds like the work needs you, and that's a great position to be in.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:47 AM on January 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
As a contractor you need to be completely unemotional about your job. Repeat to yourself over and over "you are not an employee, you are a contractor." You do what they ask you to do. You do not care or get involved in office politics. You do not care if they are doing the right thing or wrong thing as far as strategic decisions. You do not care if their business succeeds or fails. That is beyond your scope and control.
As a contractor many people use the rule of thumb that your hourly rate should be twice your base salary as an employee. For example if as an employee you would expect to be paid $100,000 per year, that is $50 per hour. You should charge twice that, $100 per hour, as a contractor. You do not get a 401k. You do not get health insurance. You do not get holiday pay. You do not get paid vacation. You do get paid for "overtime."
posted by JackFlash at 10:54 AM on January 23, 2010
As a contractor many people use the rule of thumb that your hourly rate should be twice your base salary as an employee. For example if as an employee you would expect to be paid $100,000 per year, that is $50 per hour. You should charge twice that, $100 per hour, as a contractor. You do not get a 401k. You do not get health insurance. You do not get holiday pay. You do not get paid vacation. You do get paid for "overtime."
posted by JackFlash at 10:54 AM on January 23, 2010
There's something off here. Are you saying that your mom, dad, brother and longtime friend all let your employment status color their relationship with you? Long time friends and family have established opinions of you. They don't decide there's something wrong with you because you got fired. It sounds like there's another issue here.
I want to add my agreement with this. Your personal relationships shouldn't be relevant to this situation, but it sounds like there's something significant going on here that you're not telling us.
posted by bingo at 10:58 AM on January 23, 2010
I want to add my agreement with this. Your personal relationships shouldn't be relevant to this situation, but it sounds like there's something significant going on here that you're not telling us.
posted by bingo at 10:58 AM on January 23, 2010
What Lyn Never said: This guy doesn't need to know you need work. It sounds like the work needs you, and that's a great position to be in.
Oh my friend, yes, nthing what everyone is saying. Don't let your bitterness about the past get in the way here. Someone you used to work with saw a need at this company and thought you could do the job, so they offered it to you as a contractor. You should be flattered. (For all you know your firing had more to do with office politics than anything else and and this person offering you the the job could not circumvent that at the time.) Nthing that you don't need to deal with the usual office crap if you are a contractor. If you produce the work they want, then you get paid. Negotiate a fair rate and go for it. At the very least, this will be good for your resume.
And um, I am not one to suggest therapy in every thread, but you might want to get a little, since it sounds like the family stuff is holding you back (including unresolved stuff re your father, it seems?)
Here is a true story for you.
Mr. gudrun used to work with J., who was a great co-worker, she really had it all together both personally and professionally (glowing job reviews, etc. etc.). However, new middle manager felt threatened by her and some others on her level, so arranged for the 3 of them to be let go. MM was a protege of the big boss so there was nothing anyone could do. They were let go and treated very badly in the process .... not even allowed to go back to their desks to get their stuff. J. had to go to a nearby Starbucks to call friends like Mr. gudrun to come over and say goodbye. The firing was a "reorganization" but they were treated like they were fired for cause. It was one of the scummiest things I had ever heard of. J. moved on to another job, but kept in touch with old friends at the company. Fast forward a few years, there is some reorganization, big boss and evil middle manager have moved on, and Mr. gudrun's supervisor leaves. Company scrambles around a bit about who to hire, and then they think, hey, what about J.? She was great. So they call and offer her the job, she took it, and she is now Mr. gudrun's boss and things are going really well.
The moral of the story is that a lot of people at the company thought she was great, but management at the time was a problem. Once they moved on, she was given a great job. She was treated badly during the firing but rose above her feelings about how she was treated during her firing and took the job.
posted by gudrun at 12:52 PM on January 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Oh my friend, yes, nthing what everyone is saying. Don't let your bitterness about the past get in the way here. Someone you used to work with saw a need at this company and thought you could do the job, so they offered it to you as a contractor. You should be flattered. (For all you know your firing had more to do with office politics than anything else and and this person offering you the the job could not circumvent that at the time.) Nthing that you don't need to deal with the usual office crap if you are a contractor. If you produce the work they want, then you get paid. Negotiate a fair rate and go for it. At the very least, this will be good for your resume.
And um, I am not one to suggest therapy in every thread, but you might want to get a little, since it sounds like the family stuff is holding you back (including unresolved stuff re your father, it seems?)
Here is a true story for you.
Mr. gudrun used to work with J., who was a great co-worker, she really had it all together both personally and professionally (glowing job reviews, etc. etc.). However, new middle manager felt threatened by her and some others on her level, so arranged for the 3 of them to be let go. MM was a protege of the big boss so there was nothing anyone could do. They were let go and treated very badly in the process .... not even allowed to go back to their desks to get their stuff. J. had to go to a nearby Starbucks to call friends like Mr. gudrun to come over and say goodbye. The firing was a "reorganization" but they were treated like they were fired for cause. It was one of the scummiest things I had ever heard of. J. moved on to another job, but kept in touch with old friends at the company. Fast forward a few years, there is some reorganization, big boss and evil middle manager have moved on, and Mr. gudrun's supervisor leaves. Company scrambles around a bit about who to hire, and then they think, hey, what about J.? She was great. So they call and offer her the job, she took it, and she is now Mr. gudrun's boss and things are going really well.
The moral of the story is that a lot of people at the company thought she was great, but management at the time was a problem. Once they moved on, she was given a great job. She was treated badly during the firing but rose above her feelings about how she was treated during her firing and took the job.
posted by gudrun at 12:52 PM on January 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Someone is calling you about a job. It sounds like you need a job.
If you have a reason to mistrust that person or his organization, take that into account when negotiating.... but your past history with the company doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with the current offer.
As for "That guy", you original boss - he was a founder, you said - that doesn't mean he was experienced or qualified for his position either. While you can blame him for not giving you your review after 6 months you can also realize maybe he was in over his head too.
Real-life work isn't always clean cut and textbook - but from the way you wrote this post - I'd say you need to take a deep breath, let it out, get clear in your head whether you are interested in the position or not, and then pick up the phone. It's not complicated, it's simple - in a down economy, a company needs contractors. That puts you in a position of strength. Find out what they want. Assess your own belief in your capability to deliver, and negotiate a price.
posted by TravellingDen at 8:23 AM on January 23, 2010 [4 favorites]