try the punch
January 2, 2010 4:24 PM Subscribe
You're a guy at a bar. A woman takes a swing at you. What's the proper response?
Further details: it's NYE, she's trashed, the punch is unprovoked.
Further details: it's NYE, she's trashed, the punch is unprovoked.
Best answer: Assess the situation. What you should do is very very contextually dependent.
- Is she threatening to you in an ongoing way, or just drunk and pugilistic?
- Is she bigger than you? Did she actually hit you? Did she injure you?
- Does she have friends or a date who she is with who you can appeal to for some assistance?
- Do you have friends who you are with who you can appeal to for some assistance?
- Is this a rowdy club or a not-so-rowdy club [i.e. can you get someone to toss her out for being fighty, or not?]
If you're not in immediate danger, my response would be to basically defuse the situation and try to get her either to calm down or leave [either via talking to her or to her friends or companion(s)]. If she's bigger than you and threatening to injure you or someone else, I'd appeal to some sort of authority to get her taken care of.
Note that I'm pretty much a pacifist and pretty much no matter what the genders are, "punch back" is never going to be my personal response.
posted by jessamyn at 4:29 PM on January 2, 2010 [9 favorites]
- Is she threatening to you in an ongoing way, or just drunk and pugilistic?
- Is she bigger than you? Did she actually hit you? Did she injure you?
- Does she have friends or a date who she is with who you can appeal to for some assistance?
- Do you have friends who you are with who you can appeal to for some assistance?
- Is this a rowdy club or a not-so-rowdy club [i.e. can you get someone to toss her out for being fighty, or not?]
If you're not in immediate danger, my response would be to basically defuse the situation and try to get her either to calm down or leave [either via talking to her or to her friends or companion(s)]. If she's bigger than you and threatening to injure you or someone else, I'd appeal to some sort of authority to get her taken care of.
Note that I'm pretty much a pacifist and pretty much no matter what the genders are, "punch back" is never going to be my personal response.
posted by jessamyn at 4:29 PM on January 2, 2010 [9 favorites]
Best answer: How serious of a "swing?" There's a big difference between a tiny little woman kind of slapping and you and a serious punch from a large, muscular lady.
I think conventional wisdom would be it's not cool for a man to hit a woman back unless you genuinely felt you were at risk of being seriously injured by her. Frankly you probably want to avoid touching her at all, because the whole "he said/she said" thing with the cops can lead to a battery charge real fast.
I would say, if it was a serious punch and not something you want to just laugh off, find security and have her ejected.
posted by drjimmy11 at 4:32 PM on January 2, 2010
I think conventional wisdom would be it's not cool for a man to hit a woman back unless you genuinely felt you were at risk of being seriously injured by her. Frankly you probably want to avoid touching her at all, because the whole "he said/she said" thing with the cops can lead to a battery charge real fast.
I would say, if it was a serious punch and not something you want to just laugh off, find security and have her ejected.
posted by drjimmy11 at 4:32 PM on January 2, 2010
Yeah, and if you realize that the powers that be are not on your side, then you should leave the bar. Even if she just walked up to you out of nowhere and sucker-punched you.
Hitting a woman in a bar is going to quickly turn into an excuse for a whole bunch of drunk guys to "come to her aid," and that is pretty much going to happen if you hit back, no matter how you slice it.
posted by bingo at 4:37 PM on January 2, 2010 [5 favorites]
Hitting a woman in a bar is going to quickly turn into an excuse for a whole bunch of drunk guys to "come to her aid," and that is pretty much going to happen if you hit back, no matter how you slice it.
posted by bingo at 4:37 PM on January 2, 2010 [5 favorites]
hopefully, like your mother told you, walk away quickly...if she's that drunk, she probably can't follow you well...
then let the management know....
posted by HuronBob at 4:37 PM on January 2, 2010
then let the management know....
posted by HuronBob at 4:37 PM on January 2, 2010
Duck and run.
posted by Bornatnight1 at 4:43 PM on January 2, 2010
posted by Bornatnight1 at 4:43 PM on January 2, 2010
Definitely don't hit her back. I once saw a drunken fight after a crowded street party in which a girl punched a guy, and nothing happened; however, the guy punched her back, and no fewer than 50 guys from the crowd went after him for doing it.
posted by sarahsynonymous at 4:47 PM on January 2, 2010
posted by sarahsynonymous at 4:47 PM on January 2, 2010
Avoid it and summon staff immediately, remove yourself from the situation as soon as you can.
posted by fire&wings at 4:49 PM on January 2, 2010
posted by fire&wings at 4:49 PM on January 2, 2010
Best answer: Avoid the punch. Make eye contact with the bartender or bouncer.
New Year's Eve is also known as amateur night by people in the restaurant industry. They are ready for this kind of thing. Let them handle her. Beware trying to get the woman's friends or significant other to take care of her - they may assume that you provoked her.
posted by sciencegeek at 4:54 PM on January 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
New Year's Eve is also known as amateur night by people in the restaurant industry. They are ready for this kind of thing. Let them handle her. Beware trying to get the woman's friends or significant other to take care of her - they may assume that you provoked her.
posted by sciencegeek at 4:54 PM on January 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Call security over, or call the police. It's not okay for a man or a woman to be punching someone.
posted by cmgonzalez at 4:55 PM on January 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by cmgonzalez at 4:55 PM on January 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'm a woman. If a person (either sex) punched me, I'd call the police. I can't see why your response should be different just because you are a man.
posted by Houstonian at 5:04 PM on January 2, 2010 [8 favorites]
posted by Houstonian at 5:04 PM on January 2, 2010 [8 favorites]
If its a crack deal going bad, swing back. Otherwise, you back off, put your hands in the air and say woah, woah, woah, and let others step in.
Then you wait a few seconds and ask if she's ok.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:09 PM on January 2, 2010
Then you wait a few seconds and ask if she's ok.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:09 PM on January 2, 2010
Defend yourself while calling on other people to help break up the situation. Hopefully, jesus h christ, someone there will have the stones to step in and pull her off. And even if she might deserve it, don't hit her back, because people will always see the SECOND punch and you will probably be dealt with in a very unfriendly maner by the patrons, staff, and ultimately police.
posted by vito90 at 5:44 PM on January 2, 2010
posted by vito90 at 5:44 PM on January 2, 2010
Best answer: I'm with Houstonian. It's unacceptable behavior regardless of the genders involved. If there's security or a bouncer on site, then I would probably go to them first, but if actual contact is made, that is assault and I am pressing charges (or at least want the person to have the scare of being thrown into the drunk tank for the night).
posted by katemcd at 5:45 PM on January 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by katemcd at 5:45 PM on January 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Say "Wow, you're a terrible punch, lucky you're cute" and offer to buy her a drink.
Joking aside, walk away. But remember not to turn your back right away, or you might be king-hit from behind. Back away, hands up in front of your chest, open palmed, in a kind of "I surrender" gesture (but useful for blocking) so that it's clear to everybody that you're not provoking her but trying to calm the situation.
Same advice would apply if it was a guy who hit you.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:48 PM on January 2, 2010
Joking aside, walk away. But remember not to turn your back right away, or you might be king-hit from behind. Back away, hands up in front of your chest, open palmed, in a kind of "I surrender" gesture (but useful for blocking) so that it's clear to everybody that you're not provoking her but trying to calm the situation.
Same advice would apply if it was a guy who hit you.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:48 PM on January 2, 2010
Best answer: This has happened to me. It was a haymaker (A girly, drunken one if I may say so. She was small.) and I reflexively raised my open palm, bumping her bicep so that her hand just kind of flopped on my shoulder. Her friends got to her immediately, and one drunk guy moved in from the background as if to confront me, but one of her (male) friends grabbed him and said something to him, apparently diffusing him. It took all of seven seconds, and I think they left immediately. I got my drink and went back to my table.
This bar is a very chill bar where that kind of thing doesn't happen.
Also, I met her later through a mutual friend, sober, and she didn't remember it, but was very sorry and turned out to be very nice. No one knows why she swung at me.
posted by cmoj at 5:51 PM on January 2, 2010
This bar is a very chill bar where that kind of thing doesn't happen.
Also, I met her later through a mutual friend, sober, and she didn't remember it, but was very sorry and turned out to be very nice. No one knows why she swung at me.
posted by cmoj at 5:51 PM on January 2, 2010
And now that I think about it, had I been sober and had a quarter second of notice, I would have let her hit me, or dodged.
posted by cmoj at 5:52 PM on January 2, 2010
posted by cmoj at 5:52 PM on January 2, 2010
If you are a man, you are not allowed to hit women.
If you are a man and you decide to hit a woman in public, 98.73% of all bystanders will conclude that you are a complete piece of shit; some of the bolder ones will be moved to go after you.
Her striking you first is completely irrelevant. If you hit her in response and you use "But she hit me first" as an excuse:
A.) Most people won't believe you.
B.) Whether they believe you or not, they're still going to hold you in contempt.
If you are a man who has been hit by a woman, you are expected to suck it up. You just are. The only exception to the no-hitting rule I can think of would be a woman waving a knife at you or otherwise behaving in a way that demonstrates clear lethal intent.
posted by jason's_planet at 6:18 PM on January 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
If you are a man and you decide to hit a woman in public, 98.73% of all bystanders will conclude that you are a complete piece of shit; some of the bolder ones will be moved to go after you.
Her striking you first is completely irrelevant. If you hit her in response and you use "But she hit me first" as an excuse:
A.) Most people won't believe you.
B.) Whether they believe you or not, they're still going to hold you in contempt.
If you are a man who has been hit by a woman, you are expected to suck it up. You just are. The only exception to the no-hitting rule I can think of would be a woman waving a knife at you or otherwise behaving in a way that demonstrates clear lethal intent.
posted by jason's_planet at 6:18 PM on January 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Let the first one go, even if it hurts. Then move closer to the area of the bar where the staff congregate. Let them observe any further behavior from her. At no point do you engage her, and absolutely do not have any conversation that is not shared with several other people. Be very placid. Let her be wild. But let her be wild with witnesses.
Never ever have private moments with psychos.
Always be calm. Establish contact with staff. Do not engage the psycho.
I say this as a former bouncer. Nobody on the staff wants to start sorting out a he-said-she-said situation, so make sure that all interaction becomes objectively verifiable.
Tip the staff well.
Of course, if the wild chick's boyfriend is one of the gang, you're fucked. Put your drink down, pay your tab, and get the fuck out.
posted by yesster at 6:22 PM on January 2, 2010 [11 favorites]
Never ever have private moments with psychos.
Always be calm. Establish contact with staff. Do not engage the psycho.
I say this as a former bouncer. Nobody on the staff wants to start sorting out a he-said-she-said situation, so make sure that all interaction becomes objectively verifiable.
Tip the staff well.
Of course, if the wild chick's boyfriend is one of the gang, you're fucked. Put your drink down, pay your tab, and get the fuck out.
posted by yesster at 6:22 PM on January 2, 2010 [11 favorites]
Same thing if it was a dude. Try to avoid as best as possible and seek help.
We need to stop flinging shit at one another folks. It's 2010.
posted by purephase at 6:33 PM on January 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
We need to stop flinging shit at one another folks. It's 2010.
posted by purephase at 6:33 PM on January 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
First, try to block or avoid the punch and diffuse the situation.
If truly injured: take pictures, contact police, and press charges.
Otherwise: take pictures, notify bouncer and/or staff, and leave.
posted by GoldenShackles at 7:27 PM on January 2, 2010
If truly injured: take pictures, contact police, and press charges.
Otherwise: take pictures, notify bouncer and/or staff, and leave.
posted by GoldenShackles at 7:27 PM on January 2, 2010
Best answer: Hitting a woman in a bar is going to quickly turn into an excuse for a whole bunch of drunk guys to "come to her aid," and that is pretty much going to happen if you hit back, no matter how you slice it.
As a woman who's thrown the punch in the bar - THIS. Luckily, I was saved from being a total asshole by my partner who took me outside and explained that, no matter how justified I felt, no matter how bad-ass I thought I was (and I was), that's what I would have caused. I'm little, cute, and fiesty; wrong or right, winning or losing, a bar full of guys are going to rush to my aid.
(I learned to take my bar fights out behind the building!)
posted by _paegan_ at 7:38 PM on January 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
As a woman who's thrown the punch in the bar - THIS. Luckily, I was saved from being a total asshole by my partner who took me outside and explained that, no matter how justified I felt, no matter how bad-ass I thought I was (and I was), that's what I would have caused. I'm little, cute, and fiesty; wrong or right, winning or losing, a bar full of guys are going to rush to my aid.
(I learned to take my bar fights out behind the building!)
posted by _paegan_ at 7:38 PM on January 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
What would you do if a man hit you in a bar? Would you really have a knock-down, drag-out barfight with him?
Unless your answer to that is "yes" then you should do whatever it was you would do in that instance (block the punch and call for help to break up the situation is what I would do regardless of the gender of my attacker).
If your answer to the first question is "yes" then don't do that if your attacker is a woman, because law enforcement is unlikely to believe she started it (one of the very few occasions where sexism works to women's advantage rather than their detriment). And you might want to rethink your strategy on dealing with punchy men in bars as well.
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:57 PM on January 2, 2010
Unless your answer to that is "yes" then you should do whatever it was you would do in that instance (block the punch and call for help to break up the situation is what I would do regardless of the gender of my attacker).
If your answer to the first question is "yes" then don't do that if your attacker is a woman, because law enforcement is unlikely to believe she started it (one of the very few occasions where sexism works to women's advantage rather than their detriment). And you might want to rethink your strategy on dealing with punchy men in bars as well.
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:57 PM on January 2, 2010
I'm with jason's_planet, and as a woman, I do not say this proudly, but there are certain (generally bar-oriented) instances where ladies (not all!) will take advantage of the you-can't-hit-girls rule. Here's what you do: See above posts for pacification techniques, use them, and remove yourself from the situation. If that means paying the tab and getting out, do it. Then, when you have achieved a safe distance (mentally and physically), think about this: If this woman has any conscience whatsoever, she will feel like such an ass the next day that it will more than equal out. If she doesn't, then she doesn't, and you have peacefully avoided what could have been a truly ugly and perhaps well-nigh psychotic situation.
posted by lucky25 at 9:53 PM on January 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by lucky25 at 9:53 PM on January 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
roger--
My apologies, then. But lets talk about where the assumptions come from:
First, looking at the post, this doesn't seem to be theoretical. This happened.
Second, you want to know what should have transpired, because it sure didn't go down like you think.
Third, there's *widespread* consensus that, if you swung back, oh my god you're in a heap of trouble, either with the Hero patrons of the bar, or the cops, probably both.
So, it looks like you swung back, which we pretty much all think would have led you to violence and litigation of the unwelcome sort. The only three possibilities I can thus see are:
1) This is totally theoretical, and I misread your post
2) You either weren't actually accosted by the other patrons, or you kicked their ass too
3) The cops either didn't come, or didn't bother with this obviously violent girl.
Believe it or not, I'm actually really interested in what really happened, if anything. Maybe you can shine some light on the situation?
posted by effugas at 9:58 PM on January 2, 2010
My apologies, then. But lets talk about where the assumptions come from:
First, looking at the post, this doesn't seem to be theoretical. This happened.
Second, you want to know what should have transpired, because it sure didn't go down like you think.
Third, there's *widespread* consensus that, if you swung back, oh my god you're in a heap of trouble, either with the Hero patrons of the bar, or the cops, probably both.
So, it looks like you swung back, which we pretty much all think would have led you to violence and litigation of the unwelcome sort. The only three possibilities I can thus see are:
1) This is totally theoretical, and I misread your post
2) You either weren't actually accosted by the other patrons, or you kicked their ass too
3) The cops either didn't come, or didn't bother with this obviously violent girl.
Believe it or not, I'm actually really interested in what really happened, if anything. Maybe you can shine some light on the situation?
posted by effugas at 9:58 PM on January 2, 2010
Response by poster: Effugas,
The punch didn't connect. I didn't take any further action.
I had no previous interaction with the woman in question, who was (I suspect) showing off for her girlfriend. So the question is hypothetical. While I had zero intention of hitting her, I have spent the past day wondering wtf should be done in that situation.
posted by roger ackroyd at 10:02 PM on January 2, 2010
The punch didn't connect. I didn't take any further action.
I had no previous interaction with the woman in question, who was (I suspect) showing off for her girlfriend. So the question is hypothetical. While I had zero intention of hitting her, I have spent the past day wondering wtf should be done in that situation.
posted by roger ackroyd at 10:02 PM on January 2, 2010
roger--
Well, let me be the first to compliment you on your instincts. Yep, it's a bit of an unfair world sometimes. Don't feel bad that the world works that way, feel great that under fire, you were cool under pressure and did exactly the right thing. Not everyone can say that.
posted by effugas at 10:06 PM on January 2, 2010
Well, let me be the first to compliment you on your instincts. Yep, it's a bit of an unfair world sometimes. Don't feel bad that the world works that way, feel great that under fire, you were cool under pressure and did exactly the right thing. Not everyone can say that.
posted by effugas at 10:06 PM on January 2, 2010
Back off, defend yourself as well as you can passively, find a bouncer or get the bartender to get them. Bar staff know very well girls can be as crazy as guys, and will be able to tell who is acting crazy and drunk.
There is probably security footage too, so if you do end up fearing legal trouble make sure to get access to it.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 11:18 PM on January 2, 2010
There is probably security footage too, so if you do end up fearing legal trouble make sure to get access to it.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 11:18 PM on January 2, 2010
I would have (hopefully) ducked out of the way, asked her if she was insane, and told her she's lucky you don't hit stupid drunk girls.
(Of course, do this only if you know you can actually take her. Otherwise, run.)
posted by thisperon at 11:32 PM on January 2, 2010
(Of course, do this only if you know you can actually take her. Otherwise, run.)
posted by thisperon at 11:32 PM on January 2, 2010
Get away from her and talk to bouncers and/or police. No matter what gender the attacker is, if you can get away it's no time to be a hero. Besides, if your assailant has marks on them, they can send you both up- no fun.
posted by dunkadunc at 1:42 AM on January 3, 2010
posted by dunkadunc at 1:42 AM on January 3, 2010
Best answer: A now ex-alcoholic (thank god) friend of mine used to occasionally goad gents into slap-boxing matches (i.e, slapping away each other's swings) in bars when she was wasted. She got extremely aggressive and confrontative when drunk, and all the horrible experiences she had with men as a kid seemed to get channelled toward whichever guy happened to be nearby and open to her plucky, flirtatious challenge. Needless to say, this would get very ugly as the drinks flowed free and both parties lost inhibitions and got into the game. Slaps got faster and harder, and at some point, she started taking serious swings. It was terrible to be around, not funny and not harmless, you could not get her to stop, and yet the unwitting guys/ bartenders/ bouncers were usually baffled as to how to respond to this display as it was technically a 'game', she is all of 5'5" and 120 soaking wet, and she'd usually be egging the guy on, smiling and laughing and talking sexy/tough. I couldn't believe how far she could take things and what she got away with quite clearly because she was a relatively small woman picking on men. It was nothing short of tragic to have to sit there and watch, both for the poor guy involved, and because I knew where her rage was coming from and that it had nothing to do with the man in front of her. I watched guy after guy trying to take numerous slaps and punches without responding, her getting more and more worked up, him trying to laugh it off and try to get out of this bizarre situation, as she continued to swing and taunt and egg him on very aggressively, but with the flirty/tough/'just a game' edge that kept things on that razor-edge where nobody else stepped in, and somehow the onus to keep it under control rested firmly on the guy who was being slapped and punched. Because after all, she's just a dinky chick, right? And what man worth his salt can't handle a chick beating on him in public? Uuugly.
My two cents echoes other's here: absolutely just walk away and do not respond to her in any way again. Period. Absolutely take it seriously and tell the bouncer or bartenders about it, even if it's just in the "this chick is completely batshit nuts and keep an eye on her, kick her out and/or cut her off" variety. If a woman causes you injury, report it to the cops. Please don't let this crap slide - for everyone's sake. I'm sure not every chick is throwing punches in bars for the same reason my friend was, but as with anyone picking fights with random folks, something's gone haywire there and you just wanna get out of and cut off the line of fire asap. This is not ok behavior in a bar or anywhere other than a boxing ring, in my opinion, and shouldn't be dismissed no matter what gender or size person is throwing the punch. Consider it a way of helping this person recognize that something is seriously wrong with their behavior and that they need to get some help.
...Uh, hello, unwittingly long post. Methinks you may have hit chord here. Yeeeeah.
posted by involution at 9:05 PM on January 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
My two cents echoes other's here: absolutely just walk away and do not respond to her in any way again. Period. Absolutely take it seriously and tell the bouncer or bartenders about it, even if it's just in the "this chick is completely batshit nuts and keep an eye on her, kick her out and/or cut her off" variety. If a woman causes you injury, report it to the cops. Please don't let this crap slide - for everyone's sake. I'm sure not every chick is throwing punches in bars for the same reason my friend was, but as with anyone picking fights with random folks, something's gone haywire there and you just wanna get out of and cut off the line of fire asap. This is not ok behavior in a bar or anywhere other than a boxing ring, in my opinion, and shouldn't be dismissed no matter what gender or size person is throwing the punch. Consider it a way of helping this person recognize that something is seriously wrong with their behavior and that they need to get some help.
...Uh, hello, unwittingly long post. Methinks you may have hit chord here. Yeeeeah.
posted by involution at 9:05 PM on January 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 4:24 PM on January 2, 2010