Help me pick a new best friend for the next 4 years
December 25, 2009 4:16 PM Subscribe
Finding a new laptop is making my head spin. I'm finding a lot of advice for "gamers" and "people who only do email and Word docs" or "people who need a mobile video editing suite" but I'm in the middle of the spectrum - the heaviest duty stuff I use is graphics programs like Flash and Photoshop and I don't do video games. I'm finding lot of bad reviews and stuff that says "Great all around except for the graphics". How am I going to make sure I find a laptop that does everything I need and lasts for years and years?
I have a 4 year old Gateway M320 (80gb hdd and 512mb ram) which is still doing OK but gets really slow on Flash, Photoshop, Firefox, etc. and is needed elsewhere in the family. Once all the Adobe stuff is gone it will be perfect for that purpose.
I remember hearing at various times that the following brands make absolutely shit products and should be avoided:
Asus, Acer, Toshiba, Sony, Lenovo, HP, Gateway, Mac
The following brands are ones that I can get a discount on through my school:
Acer, Toshiba, Sony, Lenovo, HP
The following brands are ones that I've had good experiences with in the past:
Gateway (2005-present), Lenovo (formerly IBM I guess) 2002-2005
This one is my front-runner so far, Lenovo Thinkpad SL510. It gets positive reviews but the bad ones seem really bad.
These are its main features, which I've been using as a baseline, and seem to be everything I need, but I really don't know:
* Core 2 Duo T5870 / 2 GHz
* Centrino
* RAM 4 GB
* HDD 250 GB
* DVD-Writer
* GMA 4500MHD
* Gigabit Ethernet
* WLAN : 802.11 a/b/g/n (draft)
* Bluetooth 2.1
* Windows 7 Home Premium
* 15.6" Widescreen TFT 1366 x 768 ( WXGA )
* camera
* matte black
* TopSeller
* Microsoft Office Ready
I will be using it for graphics programs like Photoshop and Flash, MS Office, internet, trillian, Itunes, etc., preferably all at the same time.
Also as much as I would like to get a Mac my budget is limited to around $700.
So here's my questions:
Am I on the right path?
Does the one I'm looking at seem like it'll be a good match?
Are there ones that I should be looking at but aren't due to outdated biases?
How do I know I'm making the right decision?
I have a 4 year old Gateway M320 (80gb hdd and 512mb ram) which is still doing OK but gets really slow on Flash, Photoshop, Firefox, etc. and is needed elsewhere in the family. Once all the Adobe stuff is gone it will be perfect for that purpose.
I remember hearing at various times that the following brands make absolutely shit products and should be avoided:
Asus, Acer, Toshiba, Sony, Lenovo, HP, Gateway, Mac
The following brands are ones that I can get a discount on through my school:
Acer, Toshiba, Sony, Lenovo, HP
The following brands are ones that I've had good experiences with in the past:
Gateway (2005-present), Lenovo (formerly IBM I guess) 2002-2005
This one is my front-runner so far, Lenovo Thinkpad SL510. It gets positive reviews but the bad ones seem really bad.
These are its main features, which I've been using as a baseline, and seem to be everything I need, but I really don't know:
* Core 2 Duo T5870 / 2 GHz
* Centrino
* RAM 4 GB
* HDD 250 GB
* DVD-Writer
* GMA 4500MHD
* Gigabit Ethernet
* WLAN : 802.11 a/b/g/n (draft)
* Bluetooth 2.1
* Windows 7 Home Premium
* 15.6" Widescreen TFT 1366 x 768 ( WXGA )
* camera
* matte black
* TopSeller
* Microsoft Office Ready
I will be using it for graphics programs like Photoshop and Flash, MS Office, internet, trillian, Itunes, etc., preferably all at the same time.
Also as much as I would like to get a Mac my budget is limited to around $700.
So here's my questions:
Am I on the right path?
Does the one I'm looking at seem like it'll be a good match?
Are there ones that I should be looking at but aren't due to outdated biases?
How do I know I'm making the right decision?
B1tr0t is right: if you want a computer that will last for years and years, you better expect to spend twice or three times what you've budgeted. If you're not willing to spend more, then abandon that expectation.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 4:41 PM on December 25, 2009
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 4:41 PM on December 25, 2009
Response by poster: Hmmm. The durability is just important because I'm poor and I imagine I'll be poor for awhile. I'm getting a $500 subsidy for giving my current laptop away, and $200 is the amount I can scrape together on top of that. Believe me I would love to spend more, but I can't make more money appear. The one I listed above is like $650 with my school's discount.. is it no good?
Also I do need a laptop. My current laptop and the one listed below are both 5 pounds and 15" screen which is fine for carrying around as often as I do.
posted by amethysts at 4:52 PM on December 25, 2009
Also I do need a laptop. My current laptop and the one listed below are both 5 pounds and 15" screen which is fine for carrying around as often as I do.
posted by amethysts at 4:52 PM on December 25, 2009
Best answer: The thing is, in the past few years the rate at which PCs have been getting faster has really tapered off. Back in the 90s you could get a 500mhz machine and two or three years later you could get a 2ghz machine.
But nowadays CPU speed isn't growing that quickly. What you do see are more CPU cores and more memory. My previous PC had a 2ghz singe core CPU that cost about $50, although I'd planned to upgrade to a dual core at some point, eventually they stopped making chips that would fit into the socket.
But the thing is, CPU speeds really haven't gotten any faster. My current PC runs at 2ghz too. Except it has 8 CPU cores and 12 gigabytes of ram :)
If you want your PC to last a long time, I'd look at ram. The Lenovo you pointed out can be upgraded to 8 gigabytes, and that's really key. IMO. In the future software is going to need more and more ram.
I actually disagree with those who say you need to spend $X*3 to get a PC that will last a long time. As long as you can upgrade the ram, you should be fine. PCs are just not getting faster at that high a rate anymore. My PC is still near the top of the line even though I got it a year ago. I didn't start out with 12 gb of ram, but I was able to upgrade later.
I would look at the reviews on Newegg this Lenovo has similar specs and 45 reviews, mostly good. Plus it has 3 gigabytes of ram vs. two.
So same brand, same screen size, another gig of ram and $100 less. That might be a better buy :)
---
here is newegg's full lineup of Lenovo laptops
Another option to increase speed though is getting a laptop with quad core processors. Here is newegg's list of laptops with Intel Core 2 quad CPUs.
Another thing to think about, and this is something can upgrade later too is getting a solid state disk. These remove the biggest bottleneck in system performance, and almost all of them will fit right in most laptops with a 2.5" hard drive.
An SSD like this will massively increase the performance of your PC. You'll need to reinstall windows, and you'll only have 80gb with that model. But it will vastly increase the speed for doing things like loading programs, or if you exhaust memory and need to use virtual memory on your machine.
---
Anyway, like I said, the 3 times rule might have made sense in the mid 1990s, but I don't think applies as much today, provided you can upgrade the RAM, which you can on those lenovos.
posted by delmoi at 5:06 PM on December 25, 2009 [2 favorites]
But nowadays CPU speed isn't growing that quickly. What you do see are more CPU cores and more memory. My previous PC had a 2ghz singe core CPU that cost about $50, although I'd planned to upgrade to a dual core at some point, eventually they stopped making chips that would fit into the socket.
But the thing is, CPU speeds really haven't gotten any faster. My current PC runs at 2ghz too. Except it has 8 CPU cores and 12 gigabytes of ram :)
If you want your PC to last a long time, I'd look at ram. The Lenovo you pointed out can be upgraded to 8 gigabytes, and that's really key. IMO. In the future software is going to need more and more ram.
I actually disagree with those who say you need to spend $X*3 to get a PC that will last a long time. As long as you can upgrade the ram, you should be fine. PCs are just not getting faster at that high a rate anymore. My PC is still near the top of the line even though I got it a year ago. I didn't start out with 12 gb of ram, but I was able to upgrade later.
I would look at the reviews on Newegg this Lenovo has similar specs and 45 reviews, mostly good. Plus it has 3 gigabytes of ram vs. two.
So same brand, same screen size, another gig of ram and $100 less. That might be a better buy :)
---
here is newegg's full lineup of Lenovo laptops
Another option to increase speed though is getting a laptop with quad core processors. Here is newegg's list of laptops with Intel Core 2 quad CPUs.
Another thing to think about, and this is something can upgrade later too is getting a solid state disk. These remove the biggest bottleneck in system performance, and almost all of them will fit right in most laptops with a 2.5" hard drive.
An SSD like this will massively increase the performance of your PC. You'll need to reinstall windows, and you'll only have 80gb with that model. But it will vastly increase the speed for doing things like loading programs, or if you exhaust memory and need to use virtual memory on your machine.
---
Anyway, like I said, the 3 times rule might have made sense in the mid 1990s, but I don't think applies as much today, provided you can upgrade the RAM, which you can on those lenovos.
posted by delmoi at 5:06 PM on December 25, 2009 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I'm getting a $500 subsidy for giving my current laptop away, and $200 is the amount I can scrape together on top of that
And, if you can't afford the SSD and more ram right away, you can wait and upgrade those down the line. SSD performance is going up really quickly, so in a few years you'll probably be able to replace your HD with an SSD that's faster and bigger then the current crop.
Keep an eye on your system memory use and see if it goes over the physical memory frequently. If so, look at upgrading the ram. 8Gb should be plenty for a while.
posted by delmoi at 5:09 PM on December 25, 2009
And, if you can't afford the SSD and more ram right away, you can wait and upgrade those down the line. SSD performance is going up really quickly, so in a few years you'll probably be able to replace your HD with an SSD that's faster and bigger then the current crop.
Keep an eye on your system memory use and see if it goes over the physical memory frequently. If so, look at upgrading the ram. 8Gb should be plenty for a while.
posted by delmoi at 5:09 PM on December 25, 2009
Buy a Lenovo. You missed the great sale they were having around black friday. Keep your eye out for regular sales in the next few months.
posted by i_am_a_Jedi at 5:13 PM on December 25, 2009
posted by i_am_a_Jedi at 5:13 PM on December 25, 2009
Best answer: Most reliable laptops by brand.
posted by sockpup at 5:40 PM on December 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by sockpup at 5:40 PM on December 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Good answers so far. Please keep in mind that when you say things like "Look for a decent processor" and "Get what fits your needs", I'm asking about what is a decent processor and what is likely to fit my needs because I just don't know.
Also I don't transport it constantly. Just when I need to bring it with me, I really need to bring it with me.
posted by amethysts at 5:43 PM on December 25, 2009
Also I don't transport it constantly. Just when I need to bring it with me, I really need to bring it with me.
posted by amethysts at 5:43 PM on December 25, 2009
Whatever you get, if you're going to be relying on it for a long time, be sure to get the extended warranty and keep renewing it when it runs out. It's pricey, yes, but in my experience, anything that goes wrong on a laptop is crazy expensive to fix. And because of the increased wear and tear (no matter how careful you are), its much more likely that issues will crop up.
posted by Fifi Firefox at 6:03 PM on December 25, 2009
posted by Fifi Firefox at 6:03 PM on December 25, 2009
Im a huge Sony VAIO fan. Sonys are actually quite reliable in my experience, as sockpup's chart points out. Here's the one I got last December. I'm sure they come with Windows 7 now.
posted by bearwife at 6:24 PM on December 25, 2009
posted by bearwife at 6:24 PM on December 25, 2009
Best answer: Here's what matters to you:
* Core 2 Duo T5870 / 2 GHz
Yes. What is a "decent processor" for "your needs"? Get a dual-core processor running at 2GHz or higher. Dual-core matters for making your computer more responsive with multiple applications running. 2GHz or higher matters for avoiding processors too slow to play some videos.
* RAM 4 GB
Yes. Get 4GB of RAM. You will only use 1-2GB most of the time, most likely, but 4 is cheap enough to give you extra breathing room and make a few things possible that wouldn't otherwise be. (If you're okay upgrading it yourself or getting someone else to, then by all means save money, get 2GB now, and upgrade if that ever limits you later. In Windows, hit CTL-SHIFT-ESC to bring up a window that can tell you how much memory you're using.)
* HDD 250 GB
How much space do you use now? How quickly does that grow? Do a bit of math, give yourself some padding, and get a number. Personally, I'm running out of space on my laptop with 40GB due to my photos. 250GB would probably last me four years with anything I can foresee and a few things I can't.
* GMA 4500MHD
Fine. Your graphics card won't matter much unless you're playing games. There are some potential uses for a fancier card in the future, but I wouldn't bet on them becoming important to you, and a fancier card will lower your battery life.
* Gigabit Ethernet
* WLAN : 802.11 a/b/g/n (draft)
* Bluetooth 2.1
Sure, yup, fine. I wouldn't worry if the ethernet were only 100Mbit, or if the WLAN didn't have 802.11n, or if the laptop didn't have bluetooth, unless you know of a specific use you'll have for any of those.
* Windows 7 Home Premium
Just make sure it has Windows 7. Some might still have Vista, and while that would work fine, it looks like 7 is catching on well and will be the most well-supported.
* 15.6" Widescreen TFT 1366 x 768 ( WXGA )
Does this physical size work for you? Then fine. And that's pretty much the resolution you're going to get unless you go more expensive or step up to a 17" screen.
* Microsoft Office Ready
Don't forget that a legal install of Office will cost you some amount more. Probably not too much with your academic discount, but do factor it in.
"Last years and years" can mean two things. First, there's the physical durability. All you'll get from most people is anecdotes about this brand or that, and those aren't worth much. I wouldn't even put much weight on the chart linked above without knowing its methodology. Frankly, there isn't much reliable data out there for you. Your Gateway was not a "solid" brand, but it lasted you four years, right? Great. Whatever you get, treat it well, and it will probably be fine.
Secondly, there's the question of how well it will work in four years. If you're doing the same things, it will still do them well. "Future-proofing" matters if you care about how your computer compares to the state-of-the-art or if new uses arise. For example, my laptop now does everything it did nearly four years ago just fine, but now there are some HD videos online that it has some trouble with. Had I spent five hundred dollars more four years ago, I could watch the HD videos now. But that $500 would have been wasted for three years, essentially, as that particular failing didn't arise until recently.
The laptop you've listed in your post is fine for you, yes. Overall, your uses call for a reasonable processor and a good amount of RAM, as described above, and the basic level of everything else will be fine for you.
You'll know you're making the right decision because at least a few people are telling you it's fine, it's within your budget, and you like the keyboard (seriously, make sure the keyboard layout looks alright to you - if you don't see anything you care about, great). It might still break, but that's unavoidable.
posted by whatnotever at 6:53 PM on December 25, 2009 [4 favorites]
* Core 2 Duo T5870 / 2 GHz
Yes. What is a "decent processor" for "your needs"? Get a dual-core processor running at 2GHz or higher. Dual-core matters for making your computer more responsive with multiple applications running. 2GHz or higher matters for avoiding processors too slow to play some videos.
* RAM 4 GB
Yes. Get 4GB of RAM. You will only use 1-2GB most of the time, most likely, but 4 is cheap enough to give you extra breathing room and make a few things possible that wouldn't otherwise be. (If you're okay upgrading it yourself or getting someone else to, then by all means save money, get 2GB now, and upgrade if that ever limits you later. In Windows, hit CTL-SHIFT-ESC to bring up a window that can tell you how much memory you're using.)
* HDD 250 GB
How much space do you use now? How quickly does that grow? Do a bit of math, give yourself some padding, and get a number. Personally, I'm running out of space on my laptop with 40GB due to my photos. 250GB would probably last me four years with anything I can foresee and a few things I can't.
* GMA 4500MHD
Fine. Your graphics card won't matter much unless you're playing games. There are some potential uses for a fancier card in the future, but I wouldn't bet on them becoming important to you, and a fancier card will lower your battery life.
* Gigabit Ethernet
* WLAN : 802.11 a/b/g/n (draft)
* Bluetooth 2.1
Sure, yup, fine. I wouldn't worry if the ethernet were only 100Mbit, or if the WLAN didn't have 802.11n, or if the laptop didn't have bluetooth, unless you know of a specific use you'll have for any of those.
* Windows 7 Home Premium
Just make sure it has Windows 7. Some might still have Vista, and while that would work fine, it looks like 7 is catching on well and will be the most well-supported.
* 15.6" Widescreen TFT 1366 x 768 ( WXGA )
Does this physical size work for you? Then fine. And that's pretty much the resolution you're going to get unless you go more expensive or step up to a 17" screen.
* Microsoft Office Ready
Don't forget that a legal install of Office will cost you some amount more. Probably not too much with your academic discount, but do factor it in.
"Last years and years" can mean two things. First, there's the physical durability. All you'll get from most people is anecdotes about this brand or that, and those aren't worth much. I wouldn't even put much weight on the chart linked above without knowing its methodology. Frankly, there isn't much reliable data out there for you. Your Gateway was not a "solid" brand, but it lasted you four years, right? Great. Whatever you get, treat it well, and it will probably be fine.
Secondly, there's the question of how well it will work in four years. If you're doing the same things, it will still do them well. "Future-proofing" matters if you care about how your computer compares to the state-of-the-art or if new uses arise. For example, my laptop now does everything it did nearly four years ago just fine, but now there are some HD videos online that it has some trouble with. Had I spent five hundred dollars more four years ago, I could watch the HD videos now. But that $500 would have been wasted for three years, essentially, as that particular failing didn't arise until recently.
The laptop you've listed in your post is fine for you, yes. Overall, your uses call for a reasonable processor and a good amount of RAM, as described above, and the basic level of everything else will be fine for you.
You'll know you're making the right decision because at least a few people are telling you it's fine, it's within your budget, and you like the keyboard (seriously, make sure the keyboard layout looks alright to you - if you don't see anything you care about, great). It might still break, but that's unavoidable.
posted by whatnotever at 6:53 PM on December 25, 2009 [4 favorites]
I don't see anyone mentioning 64-bit vs. 32-bit for the operating system. I don't have time (sorry) to go into pros/cons of each, but this is something else you may want to research, along with the "level" of OS you get (home, ultimate, etc.).
posted by dave*p at 8:35 PM on December 25, 2009
posted by dave*p at 8:35 PM on December 25, 2009
I don't see anyone mentioning 64-bit vs. 32-bit for the operating system
You absolutely want a 64-bit OS. A 32-bit system will max you out at around 3.2 gigs of RAM on a windows system. As others have already said, more RAM is what you'll really need to make your performance snappy and give you room to upgrade in the future.
If you're looking to save a few bucks, consider giving open office a shot. It's got quite good compatibility with word, all the features you're likely to use, and is free, as opposed to 200 bucks.
posted by chrisamiller at 10:19 PM on December 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
You absolutely want a 64-bit OS. A 32-bit system will max you out at around 3.2 gigs of RAM on a windows system. As others have already said, more RAM is what you'll really need to make your performance snappy and give you room to upgrade in the future.
If you're looking to save a few bucks, consider giving open office a shot. It's got quite good compatibility with word, all the features you're likely to use, and is free, as opposed to 200 bucks.
posted by chrisamiller at 10:19 PM on December 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
I am writing this on a fujitsu tablet PC I bought in 2005. 1.6Ghz Pentium M, 2GB ram, 12GB IDE hdd. Runs photoshop, illustrator (in a pinch), chrome flies (firefox takes a minute to start). It's got crappy built in video, but it runs windows 7 just fine except for the pretty bits. (It's got XP on it, but ran the beta for a while just to try). Office 2007 runs fine too.
What I'm trying to say is that these days the hardware is pretty damn good. Grab a Dell at a decent price, and you will be fine. Uninstall all the crap software that comes with it, install a half decent anti-virus (I like avira free - disable the popups) and make sure you don't have too much garbage on startup (get rid of the fingerprint 'security suite'), and it will keep you happy for years.
Oh, and if you're carrying it around much, keep an eye on the size of the screen and the weight. And as everybody had mentioned, you can upgrade the RAM and the HDD later (this has had a couple of transplants over the years) when you have some spare cash.
Enjoy the new machine! :)
posted by defcom1 at 4:54 AM on December 26, 2009 [1 favorite]
What I'm trying to say is that these days the hardware is pretty damn good. Grab a Dell at a decent price, and you will be fine. Uninstall all the crap software that comes with it, install a half decent anti-virus (I like avira free - disable the popups) and make sure you don't have too much garbage on startup (get rid of the fingerprint 'security suite'), and it will keep you happy for years.
Oh, and if you're carrying it around much, keep an eye on the size of the screen and the weight. And as everybody had mentioned, you can upgrade the RAM and the HDD later (this has had a couple of transplants over the years) when you have some spare cash.
Enjoy the new machine! :)
posted by defcom1 at 4:54 AM on December 26, 2009 [1 favorite]
dont forget about microsoft's "ultimate steal" for students. office for $60 if you have an .edu address!
posted by knockoutking at 8:10 AM on December 26, 2009
posted by knockoutking at 8:10 AM on December 26, 2009
I just bought a HP Pavilion dm3-1030us Entertainment Notebook PC which has dual core processors and comes with 4GB RAM. It seems to fit the bill nicely. I just bought it at Staples for $499 and had similar requirements to yours...
good luck.
posted by mateuslee at 4:24 PM on December 26, 2009
good luck.
posted by mateuslee at 4:24 PM on December 26, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
If you truly need a laptop, make sure it's light and portable - I cannot stress this enough. The difference between 4 pounds and 5 pounds is significant. Also get a laptop with at least 3.5-4 hours claimed battery life (real battery life is about 60% of claimed battery life). If you don't care about portability or battery life, that's a strong indicator that you're better off just buying a desktop.
posted by kid A at 4:35 PM on December 25, 2009 [1 favorite]