Advice for advertising CD considering quitting?
November 11, 2009 4:06 PM Subscribe
NYC big ad agency creative director with art background is considering quitting his job to look for another, in this economy. Would really appreciate some advice...
The person in question (seriously not me, but still anon to be safe) is a friend who badly needs advice and I'm doing everything I can to help.
His current job is horribly mismanaged which results in a steady 65+ hour work week with no chance to see family and not much chance for creative success since project schedules are too tight. No exaggeration here, he's had some terrible bosses and situations in his time and handled it fine, but this is really exceptional and doesn't look like it's going to change.
He has a great resume and great creative skills, mostly on the interactive side. Background is in art/design, but most of the last couple years have been "big ideas" for interactive campaigns. Recently has also been doing TV work.
The questions are:
-Is it totally stupid to quit a job in this market? Is there any hope of finding a CD or ACD-type position in the ad biz these days even with a good resume?
-A different tack I discussed with this friend was looking into jobs outside-of but related-to advertising. Maybe like marketing positions in a company? Is this a good idea? Other careers where it might help to have a interactive advertising background? We talked about maybe something more low key in north Jersey where he lives.
-A couple years ago, this kind of job searching was all handled by headhunter/recruiters. Is that still a good way to go? Any recommendations for people to talk to in the NYC or North Jersey area? If not, other ways to look for jobs at this level?
Feel free to email any questions to: cdjobhunthelp@gmail.com
I realize this is a really vague/broad question, but I'd really appreciate any advice, thanks!
The person in question (seriously not me, but still anon to be safe) is a friend who badly needs advice and I'm doing everything I can to help.
His current job is horribly mismanaged which results in a steady 65+ hour work week with no chance to see family and not much chance for creative success since project schedules are too tight. No exaggeration here, he's had some terrible bosses and situations in his time and handled it fine, but this is really exceptional and doesn't look like it's going to change.
He has a great resume and great creative skills, mostly on the interactive side. Background is in art/design, but most of the last couple years have been "big ideas" for interactive campaigns. Recently has also been doing TV work.
The questions are:
-Is it totally stupid to quit a job in this market? Is there any hope of finding a CD or ACD-type position in the ad biz these days even with a good resume?
-A different tack I discussed with this friend was looking into jobs outside-of but related-to advertising. Maybe like marketing positions in a company? Is this a good idea? Other careers where it might help to have a interactive advertising background? We talked about maybe something more low key in north Jersey where he lives.
-A couple years ago, this kind of job searching was all handled by headhunter/recruiters. Is that still a good way to go? Any recommendations for people to talk to in the NYC or North Jersey area? If not, other ways to look for jobs at this level?
Feel free to email any questions to: cdjobhunthelp@gmail.com
I realize this is a really vague/broad question, but I'd really appreciate any advice, thanks!
His current job is horribly mismanaged which results in a steady 65+ hour work week
I think this is normal for "an NYC big ad agency creative director," especially if he's getting paid in the high five figures.
He could talk to headhunters/recruiters who specialize in this kind of thing, or look to the marketing associating.
posted by anniecat at 4:26 PM on November 11, 2009
I think this is normal for "an NYC big ad agency creative director," especially if he's getting paid in the high five figures.
He could talk to headhunters/recruiters who specialize in this kind of thing, or look to the marketing associating.
posted by anniecat at 4:26 PM on November 11, 2009
Is it totally stupid to quit a job in this market?
Yes. It's easier to find a new job if you already have a job.
Are recruiters currently calling him? This is usually a pretty good measure of his desirability/marketability in this area.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 5:57 PM on November 11, 2009
Yes. It's easier to find a new job if you already have a job.
Are recruiters currently calling him? This is usually a pretty good measure of his desirability/marketability in this area.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 5:57 PM on November 11, 2009
I think this is normal for "an NYC big ad agency creative director," especially if he's getting paid in the high five figures.
Really? Do you mean six figures?
posted by bshort at 6:01 PM on November 11, 2009
Really? Do you mean six figures?
posted by bshort at 6:01 PM on November 11, 2009
Really? Do you mean six figures?
No, I meant like $90K (not including perks because the ad business doesn't seem to be doing very well at all).
posted by anniecat at 6:14 PM on November 11, 2009
No, I meant like $90K (not including perks because the ad business doesn't seem to be doing very well at all).
posted by anniecat at 6:14 PM on November 11, 2009
As an ex account exec who left agencies to go work client side (and am now working for myself thanks for a layoff), there's a couple things to note about the situation...
1. It is VERY risky to leave a job in this economy without a backup, especially when there is a family involved.
2. The only way he'll get better hours is to leave an agency. Those are normal hours and par for the course.
So, that said, I would indeed start looking for headhunters. There are some that specialize in the creative side of advertising and they know how to handle things discreetly. It is very common for folks to shift agencies so there are probably some opportunities out there for him.
However if the hours are killing him, he should consider a client side role. Marketing will likely be more business-focused than a creative person is used to (although a creative director should have some exposure to that already) so aim for a creative director type role on the client side. Maybe consider companies that do a lot with visual things or have an art team (like game and production companies).
I couldn't tell from your post whether he is trying to move away from interactive work but that is unfortunately where the future is taking everything so he needs to consider that as well.
Best of luck to your friend.
posted by Elminster24 at 8:06 PM on November 11, 2009
1. It is VERY risky to leave a job in this economy without a backup, especially when there is a family involved.
2. The only way he'll get better hours is to leave an agency. Those are normal hours and par for the course.
So, that said, I would indeed start looking for headhunters. There are some that specialize in the creative side of advertising and they know how to handle things discreetly. It is very common for folks to shift agencies so there are probably some opportunities out there for him.
However if the hours are killing him, he should consider a client side role. Marketing will likely be more business-focused than a creative person is used to (although a creative director should have some exposure to that already) so aim for a creative director type role on the client side. Maybe consider companies that do a lot with visual things or have an art team (like game and production companies).
I couldn't tell from your post whether he is trying to move away from interactive work but that is unfortunately where the future is taking everything so he needs to consider that as well.
Best of luck to your friend.
posted by Elminster24 at 8:06 PM on November 11, 2009
ACD at an Interactive agency here, albeit in SF. Seconding the fact that agency work requires long hours. I've heard it's worse in NY than SF in that regard. I can't speak to the current NY job market or the way jobs are found out there, but I have some perspective on your second question, about working outside of agencies.
Your friend is likely qualified for a job as an in-house interactive director of marketing or marketing manager type. The hours may or may not be better, depending on the specific corporate culture he would be joining. There are different challenges to being in-house, though.
First off, he may find himself justifying the value of his discipline or his media to those he works with. He may have to fight for enough budget to do anything worthwhile, while more traditional marketing programs are better funded. Even though you can get more qualified leads, forge deeper relationships, and track results more reliably online, if a company has invested in TV for a long time, for example, they're used to reaching many more people than we can promise online, and they may feel the web is still "niche".
Priorities are different outside of agencies, and design becomes something other than the most important work in the company. For perfectionist designers, it can be difficult to compromise on the quality of the work, but it's just plain not as important if it's not core to the company's business strategy.
The work scenery also changes quite a bit. You shift from being surrounded by creative people who are passionate about the same things you're passionate about, to having to advocate for it, and sometimes you're one of a few people who "get" what you're trying to do. There are (I'm painting with a broad brush now) fewer inspirations around, so you have to seek out creative input rather than just having it as an ambient part of the work environment.
Sometimes when people don't understand what you do, and if you do it well, they may assume it's easy. You may even experience this within traditional agency environments where digital is still new, but it's far more common in other fields.
And you know how in the agency world, we get lots of great projects like big redesigns or important campaigns, even though there are sometimes internal resources? Yeah, well you might find yourself being that internal resource.
At the end of the day, all of these things may be worth it to your friend, to get additional hours off of work. He just shouldn't expect to have his cake and eat it too.
posted by nadise at 11:51 PM on November 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
Your friend is likely qualified for a job as an in-house interactive director of marketing or marketing manager type. The hours may or may not be better, depending on the specific corporate culture he would be joining. There are different challenges to being in-house, though.
First off, he may find himself justifying the value of his discipline or his media to those he works with. He may have to fight for enough budget to do anything worthwhile, while more traditional marketing programs are better funded. Even though you can get more qualified leads, forge deeper relationships, and track results more reliably online, if a company has invested in TV for a long time, for example, they're used to reaching many more people than we can promise online, and they may feel the web is still "niche".
Priorities are different outside of agencies, and design becomes something other than the most important work in the company. For perfectionist designers, it can be difficult to compromise on the quality of the work, but it's just plain not as important if it's not core to the company's business strategy.
The work scenery also changes quite a bit. You shift from being surrounded by creative people who are passionate about the same things you're passionate about, to having to advocate for it, and sometimes you're one of a few people who "get" what you're trying to do. There are (I'm painting with a broad brush now) fewer inspirations around, so you have to seek out creative input rather than just having it as an ambient part of the work environment.
Sometimes when people don't understand what you do, and if you do it well, they may assume it's easy. You may even experience this within traditional agency environments where digital is still new, but it's far more common in other fields.
And you know how in the agency world, we get lots of great projects like big redesigns or important campaigns, even though there are sometimes internal resources? Yeah, well you might find yourself being that internal resource.
At the end of the day, all of these things may be worth it to your friend, to get additional hours off of work. He just shouldn't expect to have his cake and eat it too.
posted by nadise at 11:51 PM on November 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
In larger markets, it's pretty common for a talent that wants to jump ship to use a recruiter or agent to quietly and discretely shop the talent around to other shops. Has your friend looked into this approach?
posted by Thorzdad at 5:51 AM on November 12, 2009
posted by Thorzdad at 5:51 AM on November 12, 2009
$90K in NYC for a CD position is actually quite low. CDs typically make $110K or more depending on the size of the company and how many people he has reporting to him. I know some CDs in this space who make $150K in NYC.
$90K is the typical salary for a mid to senior level interactive designer in NYC.
posted by camworld at 6:55 AM on November 12, 2009
$90K is the typical salary for a mid to senior level interactive designer in NYC.
posted by camworld at 6:55 AM on November 12, 2009
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Also those kinds of hours can be a bit par for the course for a ad services business he may want to look in house somewhere.
posted by bitdamaged at 4:09 PM on November 11, 2009