Refunds from UK merchant

October 22, 2009 6:14 PM

I mailed $20 cash to a British merchant to pay for an item ordered via email. The merchant refused to accept cash insisting payment only via Paypal. I refuse to use Paypal because of two previous bad experiences. The British merchant said they would return my cash but hasn't and no longer replies to my emails. What recourse do I have to get my money back and or file a complaint against the merchant? I'm in the USA.
posted by NorthCoastCafe to Law & Government (30 answers total)

IANAL, but my suspicion would be that you have very little recourse. You can't exactly prove that you sent them cash. Moreover, it's $20, so small a sum it hardly seems worth spending more of your (valuable) time attempting to recover.
posted by axiom at 6:19 PM on October 22, 2009

Don't see how you can prove you sent it and prove that he got it. Also, why the assumption he would take US currency?

I think I'd let this one go in the interest of international relationships. It's $20. Kind of a cheap lesson if you ask me.

Also, why should he even bother spending the £1.00 and the time to send this back? It's not like he has to worry about keeping you as a customer.

Unless he stated on his site that he accepts dollars you're only going to perpetuate the "ugly American" stereotype by pursuing this.
posted by cjorgensen at 6:25 PM on October 22, 2009

Not sure what the "ugly American" stereotype has to do with anything but I agree you should just consider this a loss.

If you don't want to use PayPal use a credit card. If a credit card is not an option don't partake in the deal.

Problem solved.
posted by dfriedman at 6:27 PM on October 22, 2009

Experience. Chalk it up to it.

Also, this is precisely the reason Paypal exists, to offer both you and the merchant protection in matters such as this.
posted by gnutron at 6:27 PM on October 22, 2009 [1 favorite]

The "Ugly American" stereotype comes from assuming that everyone speaks English and values our opinions and currency. If I sold something and someone sent me pounds in payment I'd think they were inconsiderate and ignorant.
posted by cjorgensen at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2009 [2 favorites]

Mailing cash is a bad idea. You have just found out why.

You can report him to his local Trading Standards office, although it will be easy for him to claim he returned the cash to you.
posted by grouse at 6:32 PM on October 22, 2009

Lets say you were selling something for 20$ I instead mail your the current equivalent in British Pounds (12.04 pounds according to google). I just screwed you out of at least two quarters for the 2-4% fee you will pay to the money exchanger. Not to mention that you may find you can't get that money exchanged at your local bank, you will have to drive out of your way to a main branch or even an airport (with more inflated fees).

So, even assuming the $20 you mailed covers the cost of the item exactly (which I doubt the exchange rates work out that way, but lets just assume you are extremely lucky). You still tried to screw the merchant. And now you want him to pay the postage to send your money back to you?

I am an American, but I agree with the above, it is stuff like this where the ugly American stereotype comes from.
posted by DetonatedManiac at 6:56 PM on October 22, 2009

For all we know, the British merchant stated that he/she would accept payment in dollars. You "ugly American" types are making unwarranted assumptions and defending unjust enrichment to the tune of $20. Fight your culture battles somewhere else.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 7:03 PM on October 22, 2009

I do not know what your time is worth, but to me, $20 is not worth making an international ado. Write him a letter explaining you do not use PayPal for your reasons and ask him to donate the $20 to his favorite local charity.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 7:06 PM on October 22, 2009 [1 favorite]

Inspector.Gadget, the merchant refused to accept cash at all as far as we know. (Which does raise the question of why the OP still sent cash...) If it were $200 in question, my answer might be different, but I agree with other posters who say that inevitable fuss associated with pursuing this is absolutely not worth your $20.
posted by impluvium at 7:10 PM on October 22, 2009 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: In fact, I sent 20 dollars to pay for a 10 dollar item covering any costs in exchanging the money or bank fees. I've lived in the UK, I know it's not that hard to change money. Even so, I offered to pay for costs and inconvenience. I asked for the merchant to suggest an alternative to Paypal, offering an International money order, an exchange of goods of equal value, anything except Paypal. Paypal failed me twice, cost me money and time and enormous hassles. I do not use Paypal. I sent the cash hoping to speed up the transaction not realizing it was going to these problems. IT WAS A $10 ITEM!

And I don't see how this makes me an ugly American!
posted by NorthCoastCafe at 7:12 PM on October 22, 2009

I asked for the merchant to suggest an alternative to Paypal, offering an International money order, an exchange of goods of equal value, anything except Paypal.

Did he suggest U.S. cash? If not, it was a poor choice to send it unilaterally. The merchant has no obligation to accept a form of payment convenient to you. Especially when it is inconvenient to him. I've lived in the UK too, and I know that I would not accept U.S. cash in the mail either.
posted by grouse at 7:17 PM on October 22, 2009

Response by poster: ""I've lived in the UK too, and I know that I would not accept U.S. cash in the mail either""

And would you keep it, not send it back, even though you promised you would do so?
posted by NorthCoastCafe at 7:20 PM on October 22, 2009

$20? I'd lose that much money just making the time to go to the bank and exchange it. Unless they said they accept American dollars in cold hard cash you are the one who's made things difficult.
posted by furtive at 7:21 PM on October 22, 2009

Lemme break down how this looks like ugly American to us readers. Ugly stereotype not withstanding.

Events:
1. You wanted something.
2. You decided to order it.
3. Seller gave you instructions about how to pay. He said NO CASH. He asked you to USE PAYPAL.
4. You elected to both a) ignore his instructions and b) not notify him in advance that you wanted to ignore his instructions
5. And now, because in too many places here "The customer is always right" you expect special consideration from the guy.

"Hey I want a cheeseburger with no onions."
"Sir, this is a falafel store."
"Yes, and I would like potato chips."
"Sir, we serve hummus."
"Exactly, now where is my change?"


Yea, he should return your money. Sounds from this side like you've been sort of a ween throughout the transaction though, and you've probably irritated him. Which isn't to say that he shouldn't return your money (minus postage, and possibly time), or that he won't (he's just ignoring your emails, doesn't mean he's not doing what he's supposed to.)
posted by TomMelee at 7:30 PM on October 22, 2009 [6 favorites]

For all we know, the British merchant stated that he/she would accept payment in dollars.

From the OP's question it seems that was not the case: The merchant refused to accept cash insisting payment only via Paypal.

Unless the merchant had agreed to accept USD, I think the "Ugly American" stereotype fits pretty well here. If I insisted on payment via Paypal and a buyer went ahead and sent me Pounds, Pesos, Lira, etc. I would think it quite culturally arrogant and ignorant. Further, unless the product was priced at well under 20USD, why should the merchant have had the hassle and expense [most banks charge for this] of exchanging such a relatively tiny sum?
posted by applemeat at 7:32 PM on October 22, 2009

I already made a suggestion for what to do about alleged deceptive trade practices. But before you call them, what's the timeframe here? When did you last communicate with him? How have you decided that he hasn't sent you the money? Perhaps he is just tired of dealing with you.
posted by grouse at 7:34 PM on October 22, 2009

Mmm... a minor point how do you know he (or she) hasn't sent the money back to you? You are aware that there are disruptions to the UK postal service? If it's several weeks then maybe you can presume that the money hasn't been returned, but if several days then a modicum of patience may be in order before you discredit a trader.
As an aside, it is quite easy to deal with foreign currency, you just pay it in to your account with any other payments and it will be converted at the current rate.
posted by AndyM825 at 7:53 PM on October 22, 2009

The merchant refused to accept cash insisting payment only via Paypal.

I read that exchange as occurring after the cash was mailed. OP, which was it?
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 8:04 PM on October 22, 2009

I'm sorry, but if I was the vendor I would have sent you back a £10 note.
posted by Tawita at 8:20 PM on October 22, 2009 [5 favorites]

he shouldn't keep your money, but there's no compelling reason for him to return it if he doesn't want to. you've just learned why cash is not the chosen payment for online transactions. you made an assumption that was flawed because it was easiest for you and now you're 20 bucks poorer. either deal in the payment structure that is laid before you or don't partake in the sale.
posted by nadawi at 8:34 PM on October 22, 2009

Who knows if it made it there, or if it made it back? No tracking, and it's cash, so it has a reason to vanish. Never send cash through the mail, period. Chalk it up to a learning experience and let it go.
posted by Slinga at 8:42 PM on October 22, 2009

Mailing currencies is illegal in most countries. In Australia, the postal office has scanners to pick up cash. If they find it, kiss your money goodbye.
posted by smoke at 10:38 PM on October 22, 2009

Yeah, don't mail cash. It's pretty basic. There's nothing you can do now except hold a grudge against the guy.
posted by h00py at 1:32 AM on October 23, 2009

An important question is *when* this transaction took place. There have been local and national postal strikes here over the past couple of months, and mail is being very heavily delayed everywhere, especially in and around London. So it could very well be that he has returned your cash, and you just haven't received it yet.

Nthing the notion that sending foreign-currency cash is a bad idea. If you did it to me (I run a business selling services to clients in various countries including the US), I'd be tempted to refuse your business as it would cost me more in time to process the cash than the transaction is worth.
posted by altolinguistic at 1:32 AM on October 23, 2009

nth-ing the points being made about the post strike. When did this all happen? How long have you waited since the merchant said they would return your cash? I am getting post in London that was sent over 2 months ago, and a new wave of national strikes has just started, so if this happened recently it's entirely possible that your money is sat in a sorting office somewhere.
posted by patricio at 5:09 AM on October 23, 2009

Yeah, you made a bad decision and if you end up being stuck for $20, I think that's the price of experience. If he returns it to you, he's gone above and beyond and should be commended to high heaven. I suspect most people would see the foreign currency, curse or roll their eyes, and throw it in a sock drawer, forgotten.

If you'd wanted to send cash while being nice about it, you could have fetched 10 quid from your own US bank, paying the conversion fees yourself, and sent him that. It's not as if banks don't have foreign currency on hand for their customers.

At least that way you're doing the work, rather than tossing money at him to go through the hassle for you. I'm sad to say that is indeed feeding the ugly-American stereotype.
posted by rokusan at 7:36 AM on October 23, 2009 [2 favorites]

Smoke, in the US it's not illegal to send cash in the mail, though many believe it is (I did). Snopes says it's dumb but legal.
posted by cjorgensen at 7:55 AM on October 23, 2009

The guy could genuinely have sent your money back, and it's been nicked in the post - this has happened a few times to me (things like grandparents sent both grandchildren a tenner in the post, but only one arrived). He might be ignoring you because he's sent it, and doesn't think it's his problem to deal with international mail theft.
posted by Coobeastie at 9:20 AM on October 23, 2009

Also, this is precisely the reason Paypal exists, to offer both you and the merchant protection in matters such as this.

As someone who has been the victim of fraud via PayPal, with PayPal refusing to help, leaving me on the phone for 45 minutes when I asked to speak to a supervisor, then mysteriously disconnecting, and then putting the fraudulent charge through again one week later, after I had already opened a fraud claim with them - their "protection" isn't worth the paper it's written on, and the OP's hesitation is understandable.

That said, it's not likely worth the effort in this case. The merchant didn't accept cash, so it was a pushy move to send it anyway. However, he should return your money, but it's highly unlikely. Filing a complaint wouldn't net you anything, since you violated the terms of sale.
posted by cmgonzalez at 10:08 AM on October 23, 2009