Suggest me a keyboard please
October 6, 2009 5:12 AM   Subscribe

Software developers: what keyboard do you like?

I'm not happy with my cheap HP keyboard. The keys seem a bit sticky and resistant, especially if I hit them a bit off-center. I'd like something with a higher quality feel. Smooth, but with some degree of tactile feedback.

I've never used one of those wave or split keyboards, so I'm not sure If I want to try one of those now.

PC-Compatible. I like media player controls. Are there any other features useful for the software developer? Is wireless really worthwhile?

Not too expensive. $70 or under is best. Fancy design (like those flat white Apple keyboards) is not a consideration.

Also mouse suggestions are welcome, though I am not really unhappy with my current wired optical mouse.

What would you recommend?
posted by DarkForest to Computers & Internet (27 answers total) 5 users marked this as a favorite
 
Just a few days ago Wired reviewed the "das keyboard", a clone of the fabled M line keyboard that IBM used to make. Mind: I don't use this myself. Reading your question just made me remember the review.
posted by NekulturnY at 5:24 AM on October 6, 2009


The true successor to the Model M is the Unicomp line. And genuine model Ms are pretty easy to find on eBay and what not.

That might be too much feedback though, especially if you're in an office. Since I've moved from a private office to a public bullpen at work, I've had to store my Model M away in a closet at home. :( These days I've been using a MS Natural. I don't remember which model exactly, but it's wired and doesn't have the crazy arrow keys. The keys are mushier than I prefer, but pretty good for a membrane keyboard. And I got used to the split pretty quickly.

And oh, I find wireless to be absolutely useless unless you're using it for an HTPC or something. Why would anybody want a wireless keyboard for work I could never figure out. It just means added hassle with batteries and signal interference and whatnot.
posted by kmz at 5:42 AM on October 6, 2009


If you look at my comment history, I have probably recommended Cherry keyboards a couple of times before: solid switch action, not too hard, nice clicky sound, sturdy build quality and no-nonsense design.

Basic models come at around 80 euros, though mine doesn't have any multimedia keys on it.

You should try a split keyboard sometime, I used to have one and found it really is more comfortable to use, though you have to be good with touch-typing. Using it will help you improve your typing skills, but you might find it too frustrating at first.

As for mice, I'm currently using a LogiTech trackball, and I love it: needs less space, less hand strain, faster action for most of the things I use it for. It might not be as good with graphic-intensive tasks such as freehand drawing, but I don't do much of that anyway.
posted by Dr Dracator at 5:47 AM on October 6, 2009


At home, I use an IBM Model M, 1986 vintage. At work, some piece of crap Dynex that came with my work PC.
posted by reptile at 5:53 AM on October 6, 2009 [1 favorite]


I use a clicky Cherry at work but I don't know how much it cost. It has great key feedback. I tried a coworker's Kinesis Freestyle a while back and it seems pretty nice too.
posted by cmonkey at 6:09 AM on October 6, 2009


I like my Microsoft Comfort Curve. Cheap ($15) wired keyboard, ergonomic to the extent of having a slight curve without requiring a complete finger retraining. Reliable and fairly spill-tolerant. Not a huge amount of tactile feedback, but then

I've owned many more expensive keyboards and not found anything better. Split keyboards have been a complete fail for me; after 6 months I was still consistently hitting the wrong keys.

But really your best bet it to go to a store and try a load of keyboards out. We're all different.

Optical mouse - again, the MS ones (Optical Mouse 2000) have a nice feel. The shape is very comfortable.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 6:11 AM on October 6, 2009


"..but then, I've never liked noisy keyboards" I meant to say.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 6:12 AM on October 6, 2009


Also bear in mind that your choice of keyboard may be somewhat dependent on what typing you do. A keyboard used by a writer to touch-type long documents may not be suitable for a developer who switches back and forth to the mouse a lot.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 6:14 AM on October 6, 2009


Microsoft digital media keyboard. Newish and non-clicky but doesn't feel like a cheap plastic toy like new logitech keyboards.
posted by cmm at 6:17 AM on October 6, 2009


At work I've got a bog-standard clunky Dell keyboard, at home I use a Saitek Eclipse II

For mice, I use a Logitech G7 at work and an MX Revolution at home.
I also have two other G7s kicking around, that are semi-broken (they sometimes double and triple click) but I keep for backups

I tend to avoid wireless keyboards, never found one that works as well as I would like, plus it's not like I need to move the keyboard too much
I always go for the wireless mice however, makes such a difference when you don't have a cable to snag and the battery life/charge time on most of them now is pretty good
posted by DonnChadh at 6:18 AM on October 6, 2009


Response by poster: Thanks fr your suggestions so far. I'll be heading for the big city to try out some keyboards in the big box stores in a day or so, but thought I'd get your recommendations first. So for trying things out in person, I'm probably limited to the current Microsoft, Logitech and Apple lines. I figure your months-long experience with a keyboard might be as helpful as my few minutes or so trying out a keyboard in a store.

Also, I'm not really a touch typist. I have the basic technique and originally learned as a touch typist. But, especially for coding, I look at the keys.
posted by DarkForest at 6:27 AM on October 6, 2009


You know how the Model M fanatics come out of the woodwork any time someone asks about a keyboard? There's a reason: The Model M is the best PC keyboard ever made, period, for people who actually spend their time typing. People get zealous about the thing for a very real reason. It's that good. Also, they're dirt cheap. I've got a stack of 4 that someone picked up for me -- "Hey, I think these are the keyboards you like, right?" -- for $4 each at a thrift store, plus one I picked up from eBay years ago. You won't always find them for under a fin like that but $20 pretty much guarantees you a Model M if you take the time to find one.
posted by majick at 6:28 AM on October 6, 2009 [2 favorites]


I've got the logitech wave cordless here at work. It came in a kit with an ergo mouse. I use it daily for CAD work; while I have to recharge the mouse about once every three weeks, the keyboard has been going the batteries it came with since last November. The keyboard has a slight bend to the row of keys, has all media controls, decent tactile response and (big one for me) a built in wrist rest that feels like velvet, even after I've spilled all manner of crap on it.
posted by notsnot at 6:29 AM on October 6, 2009


I'm pretty fussy when choosing my own, but will generally use what I'm given!!

Ideally

- A keyboard must have a good "return action". By which I mean, when you press a key, it will push your finger back after it's been pressed and make a small noise when doing so. Sadly, most modern keyboards do not have this. Cherry keyboards always used to be great, don't know whether they still are. (Actually, reading this tells me the somewhat technical term is a Buckling spring key-switch keyboard. Me likes!
- The escape key must be either large, or far away from any other key ('cos I'm a programmer of the 'vi' school)
- The caps lock key should be small and difficult to find (in fact, preferably, absent).
- Must be a flat key surface (I'm a pretty good touch typist, but the "ergonomically" designed ones just emphasise all the lazy habits I've picked up, like using my left hand for the 'B' key instead of the right).
- Must be capable of being set at an angle.
posted by BigCalm at 7:46 AM on October 6, 2009


MS Natural Ergonomic 4000 is incredibly comfortable. My only complaint is that it has a numpad. I'd rather put my mouse there. This complaint is valid for a majority of keyboards though.
posted by valadil at 8:34 AM on October 6, 2009


I also use the MS 4000, and I'm generally happy with it. Be forewarned - it's a big, heavy beast, which is a plus because it feels solid, but is a minus if you intend to move it around a lot or type with it on your lap.
posted by chrisamiller at 9:43 AM on October 6, 2009


I'm very happy with the Apple flat keyboards. They're light, sleek, and comfortable. They've done a really good job of balancing the click-feedback with an easy action; it still feels like typing, but it's kind of a graceful, fluid typing, no great big keystroke-punching necessary.

I actually brought a pair of the things into the office when I worked at Microsoft, to replace the giant plastic ergo-keyboards everyone there uses. I couldn't stand having my hands separated like that; it ruined my touch-typing.
posted by Mars Saxman at 10:07 AM on October 6, 2009


nthing the Model M for the opposite of the reasons people like the Apple boards. It's heavy, can handle aggressive typing, engineered for functionality first, and built to last a lifetime.

There's a darn good reason that Unicomp can still sell modern clones of 25 year old computer technology, and why people don't tend to switch away (it really is the last keyboard that a lot of people buy). I've been using the same one (an actual IBM one) since sometime around 1990, and I wouldn't sell it for any price. They are built to last, have absolutely perfect keyfeel, and were designed for fast touch typists (like me). If you use one for a month, you will a) type faster and more accurately than you did before and b) never go back... or c) learn that you're in the 10% of the population that hates them, either because of the noise, or the tactile nature and force of the springs.

The keys definitely don't feel cheap or sticky -- thanks to the buckling metal springs, they've got a smooth motion, followed by a tactile/audible feedback loop, which is vital for speed (fast typists are often starting to press one key while still releasing the previous one, or in the case of repeating letters, not releasing a key fully before pressing it again -- having your brain know exactly when a keypress has registered helps you do this much more accurately). The keyfeel does not significantly change over time or with use (this is not true of the typical modern keyboard, which uses domed rubber that weakens a tiny amount with every key press).

The thing is... keyboard feel is one of those things that's really a matter of individual taste. I don't understand how people could actually enjoy using the chiclet keyboards coming out of Apple right now, but they clearly have their fans (even among non-fanboys). There's nothing wrong with that.

So, don't take our word for it. A good keyboard vendor will have a liberal return policy (at least 30 days, sometimes as much as 90). Try a few different keyboards, back to back, in the course of everyday work, and keep the one that treats your fingers the best. You cant really evaluate a keyboard with a 5 minute test of a display model that's not connected to anything.

You need to know how your hands feel after an 8 hour hacking session, and there's only one way to do that.
posted by toxic at 10:45 AM on October 6, 2009


I'm extremely happy with my Das Keyboard, but mine is a generation old, and while I payed I think $90 for mine, they are more expensive now. You're mostly paying for style if you get this.

I've been eying the Unicomp keyboards (which are Model M's, but new, with USB plugs and windows keys), but those are $69 for the one I want, or $99 for the one I want including a nipple mouse, which might be awesome.

So actually, probably the best thing to do is find a cheap Model M (and they are quite cheap) and try it out, see if the tactile feedback really does it for you (I sure do love it).
posted by where u at dawg at 10:57 AM on October 6, 2009


Kinesis Ergo, but no one else will ever be able to use it.
posted by milinar at 11:36 AM on October 6, 2009


The happy Hacking keyboard! Full-size keys, "Control" in the correct place (I use emacs), and no stupid numeric keypad so the mouse stays closer to my right hand. (The legendary Model M has a numeric keypad.)
posted by phliar at 11:42 AM on October 6, 2009


(The legendary Model M has a numeric keypad.)

Not all of them.
posted by toxic at 12:25 PM on October 6, 2009


Man, the hours I've spent finding and trying out keyboards... finally a chance to share some of this nerdy knowledge.

In short: experiment, compact keyboards rock, think about being keyboard-driven and having an integrated pointing device.

In long:

Not a full time developer any more but things that are important to me in a keyboard are:

* Good return action
* Compact (i.e no numpad)
* Easy access to a pointing device (in addition to a mouse)

It's the last one that's always been annoying.

Most of the RSI, wrist pain and "annoyance" I suffer is when moving a hand from a keyboard to a mouse. I also use split / straight keyboards 50/50 which is oddly helpful.

Not having a numpad reduces the hand at keyboard -> mouse distance (I've got several old natural keyboards with the numpad band-sawed off) but the biggest improvement for me was getting an IBM desktop keyboard with a trackpoint pointer ("nipple mouse") in the middle of it (http://tinyurl.com/2jbr8q).

I work in an almost entirely keyboard driven way (all email with Pine, vim is my editor of choice, I can control Windows and Linux almost entirely with shortcuts, I have spatial keyboard-driven browsing in Opera.) 90% of mouse movements are small adjustments to get focus etc. and the other 10% I grab a mouse.

Those keyboards are hard to come by although IBM make a good desktop keyboard that's actually got the feel of one of their modern laptop keyboards (generally excellent) and has a trackpad and a mouse pointer on it. The latest incarnation is about $60 of your dollars ( http://tinyurl.com/mzvdzl) and while probably not as good as the desktop one I have (only available with ebay / luck) I think it's one of the best keyboards for developers out there.

Working at a desk I've never felt an improvement from using a wireless keyboard. The cheaper RF ones have a noticeable lag / fall asleep when you're not using them and require a "jiggle" to wake up (although are fine for a media centre etc.). All the BT ones I've seen are just overkill. Apple ones are nice but only if you're running OSX - there are too many annoyances with using them on Windows.

Of course if being "keyboard driven" isn't a priority for you then you can probably ignore most of this. I'd still recommend a compact over a full-size. Cherry make a good compact keyboard (http://tinyurl.com/y86v8h9) that's in the same tradition as the Model-M, Das Keyboard, Happy Hacker etc. but at a more reasonable price and generally better availability.

Good luck!

tk

posted by tkbarbarian at 3:18 PM on October 6, 2009


I'm going to go ahead and recommend what I personally have: the Logitech Illuminated Keyboard (on sale right now at Newegg). I initially thought that I would like the famous clacky feel of the IBM Model M and its successors (mentioned up above) and for a while I used a Dell-branded buckling-spring keyboard. However, I realized that I was typing faster on my laptop than I was on my desktop, so I went in search of a laptop-style keyboard.

There are a couple of caveats, I suppose. First, I am very much a touch-typist, and therefore my technique (the reason I prefer the short stroke of a laptop-style keyboard) likely differs from someone who doesn't touch-type. However, one nice feature of this keyboard is that they keys are illuminated (with a variable degree of retina sear), so if you prefer to do your coding in a dimmer environment, it would help you find the keys you need.

The other caveat is that this keyboard doesn't have dedicated media keys, though it does have a function key, which you can use to access media functions on the F-keys. There are discrete volume keys.

Anyway, if you like the laptop feel at all (without the constrained dimensions), it comes highly recommended by someone who does a fair bit of coding on a day-to-day basis.
posted by stufflebean at 3:37 PM on October 6, 2009


Response by poster: Thanks for your suggestions. Trying out a few in a store left me feeling kind of meh. I did like the high end logitech and their gadgety mouse, but they're more than I'd like to spend (they also reduced the function keys to little buttons: wtf?). I did like the thin apple keyboards when I tried them so I'll have to add them to consideration. I'll post back when I decide on something.

And Vi/Vim users get an automatic "best answer" ;)
posted by DarkForest at 6:32 AM on October 7, 2009


Response by poster: After trying out some keyboards on a few occasions I decided on the Logitech MK300 wireless keyboard and mouse. I like the smooth key feel and the straight rows of keys. I wanted straight rows of keys so that I wouldn't have to adapt back and forth from the laptop keyboard. I can definitely type faster and with more confidence that the keystrokes will be registered. It wasn't too expensive, so I'm pretty happy, at least at this point.

Going wireless makes my desk feel less cluttered. But I guess I'll have to see how well the battery life thing goes. I have noticed slight delays in keys and mouse movements being registered when the keyboard/mouse go from a sleeping state to waking state.

The Logitech Setpoint software seemed to cause some problems though. There was a problem with the computer coming out of standby, and some problems with flashing screen updates in an application. Disabling the Setpoint software fixed this. Doing so probably disables some of the special keys on the keyboard and some extra mouse functionality. Fortunately, the volume/mute keys and the standby/wake key still work fine, I think that's handled by windows itself, and they are the main ones I use anyway.

Thanks for your suggestions.
posted by DarkForest at 4:27 PM on October 18, 2009


Following all the hype here, I dug up a vintage IBM M-series from my father's basement.

They are certainly loud, especially the space bar, which you can hear three blocks away.

Not sure if I like the very very straight way the keys are implanted. You really have to hit them vertically. I have a feeling that most modern keyboards have the keys slanted just slightly to the front, which feels more natural. The auditory feedback is cool, although I find myself actually making mistakes because I get confused because of the noise.
posted by NekulturnY at 12:12 AM on October 20, 2009


« Older Looking for some style advice for a 21 year old...   |   Clock art restoration? Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.