How do I come to terms with my boyfriend's refusal to marry me?
October 5, 2009 8:01 AM Subscribe
So my boyfriend and I had the marriage talk; he said no. I'm having difficulty coming to terms with it. Help!
My boyfriend and I are in our early-mid twenties and have been together for about four years, about a year of which has been cohabitating. In a more typical situation, I don't think I would have dreamed of bringing up the possibility of marriage, but there are increasingly pressing (to me) practical reasons why I wish to marry my boyfriend.
Basically, I moved to his country so that we could live together (this was something he very much wanted, and which I was ambivalent about - I didn't like long distance, but I would have preferred not to move). I'm a legal resident here, but not a permanent one, and my visa is not one that ever leads to citizenship. This is problematic for me if I'm to make this country my permanent home - I have a disability that is expensive (at best) and impossible (at worst) to manage properly here until I get permanent residency. There are other reasons I'd like PR - I wish to go back and finish my degree at some point, which is going to be incredibly expensive without it, and the career I had planned to take up upon completion is in the public service - non-PR/citizens are ineligble - but the disability is the primary reason.
As I'm not going to be eligible for skilled migration until I complete my degree (pretty much impossible right now due to astronomical cost), the only option I see is to marry my (citizen) boyfriend. Don't get me wrong - I don't *just* want to marry him for immigration purposes. We had discussed marriage in the past and both agreed that we would probably do it sometime in the future. This was fine until my disability worsened - and now I want to do it sooner, but he has refused.
He says he thinks marrying so I can get PR would make the marriage meaningless. I have difficulty accepting this explanation - he is not someone who attaches a high importance to marriage in the first place, per many previous (less personal) conversations on the topic.
I'm feeling really screwed over right now - I left my entire life for him, and he won't give me what I need in order to build a new one here. I guess it sounds bratty, but that's how I feel. I suggested me moving back to my country, at which he started crying and said he doesn't ever want to be apart from me (and he doesn't cry easily). I'm having difficulty reconciling his claim that he wants to build a life with me with his refusal to help me to do so.
Anyway, sorry for the long rambling background. My question isn't "how do I get my boyfriend to marry me" because I need to respect his decision that it's not what he wants, but "how do I accept this?"
Thanks in advance for your help. I hope my explanation was not too unclear :/
My boyfriend and I are in our early-mid twenties and have been together for about four years, about a year of which has been cohabitating. In a more typical situation, I don't think I would have dreamed of bringing up the possibility of marriage, but there are increasingly pressing (to me) practical reasons why I wish to marry my boyfriend.
Basically, I moved to his country so that we could live together (this was something he very much wanted, and which I was ambivalent about - I didn't like long distance, but I would have preferred not to move). I'm a legal resident here, but not a permanent one, and my visa is not one that ever leads to citizenship. This is problematic for me if I'm to make this country my permanent home - I have a disability that is expensive (at best) and impossible (at worst) to manage properly here until I get permanent residency. There are other reasons I'd like PR - I wish to go back and finish my degree at some point, which is going to be incredibly expensive without it, and the career I had planned to take up upon completion is in the public service - non-PR/citizens are ineligble - but the disability is the primary reason.
As I'm not going to be eligible for skilled migration until I complete my degree (pretty much impossible right now due to astronomical cost), the only option I see is to marry my (citizen) boyfriend. Don't get me wrong - I don't *just* want to marry him for immigration purposes. We had discussed marriage in the past and both agreed that we would probably do it sometime in the future. This was fine until my disability worsened - and now I want to do it sooner, but he has refused.
He says he thinks marrying so I can get PR would make the marriage meaningless. I have difficulty accepting this explanation - he is not someone who attaches a high importance to marriage in the first place, per many previous (less personal) conversations on the topic.
I'm feeling really screwed over right now - I left my entire life for him, and he won't give me what I need in order to build a new one here. I guess it sounds bratty, but that's how I feel. I suggested me moving back to my country, at which he started crying and said he doesn't ever want to be apart from me (and he doesn't cry easily). I'm having difficulty reconciling his claim that he wants to build a life with me with his refusal to help me to do so.
Anyway, sorry for the long rambling background. My question isn't "how do I get my boyfriend to marry me" because I need to respect his decision that it's not what he wants, but "how do I accept this?"
Thanks in advance for your help. I hope my explanation was not too unclear :/
I really hate to be like DTMFA, but really, dump the guy, go back to your home country and take care of your needs, and find someone who is as committed to your well being as you are to his.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:07 AM on October 5, 2009 [9 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:07 AM on October 5, 2009 [9 favorites]
With all due respect, it seems like if you made the sacrifices you made with the expectation of marriage in return, then this is something you should have discussed before you changed your life around. Don't you think?
I had known I wanted to marry my wife for years and years before I got married recently. It is an enormous commitment and something I would not have wanted to jump into early. I am still in my 20s and I already have close friends who were "sure" about marriage and are now divorced -- if they had waited they might not be going through divorce now.
posted by kosmonaut at 8:09 AM on October 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I had known I wanted to marry my wife for years and years before I got married recently. It is an enormous commitment and something I would not have wanted to jump into early. I am still in my 20s and I already have close friends who were "sure" about marriage and are now divorced -- if they had waited they might not be going through divorce now.
posted by kosmonaut at 8:09 AM on October 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry, but I don't believe your boyfriend's logic either.
I don't think you're being selfish or bratty, and there's nothing wrong with a practical marriage.
Instead of arguing his not-true reasoning, though, can you try to figure out what his real secret objection is? Perhaps you can assuage his concerns, do the 'practical' marriage now (perhaps with a prenup agreement or other conditions to make him comfortable?) and the 'romantic' marriage later, or never, depending on what you two decide in the future.
"I need to be married to solve my citizenship problem. Can you help me, please?"
posted by rokusan at 8:09 AM on October 5, 2009
I don't think you're being selfish or bratty, and there's nothing wrong with a practical marriage.
Instead of arguing his not-true reasoning, though, can you try to figure out what his real secret objection is? Perhaps you can assuage his concerns, do the 'practical' marriage now (perhaps with a prenup agreement or other conditions to make him comfortable?) and the 'romantic' marriage later, or never, depending on what you two decide in the future.
"I need to be married to solve my citizenship problem. Can you help me, please?"
posted by rokusan at 8:09 AM on October 5, 2009
(And if not, yeah, DTMFA. You need to fix your life, and if he won't help you in such an obvious and easy way, you have trouble ahead anyway.)
posted by rokusan at 8:10 AM on October 5, 2009
posted by rokusan at 8:10 AM on October 5, 2009
I had this happen at year four of a five year relationship with a boyfriend I was living with. I was in an awkward situation with regards to health insurance and I brought up the idea of us getting married to help solve that proble, but also because we were making all the right noises as far as being lifelong partners and I thought pushing up the timeline made sense given the practical nature of what was going on. We had a very unpleasant conversation where he basically said no. Actually he said something ot the effect of if there was NO other way I could solve this problem then he'd consider it but ....
In hindsight (being 20/20 and all) I really should have seen that conversation and his reluctance and flat out discomfort as a sign that while I felt comfortable and stable and in a "making plans" frame of mind, that was not how he felt at all. We split up about a year later and while it was for the best the last year or so of our relationship was sub-optimal.
So, I'd say unless there's some very specific reason why he's saying no, I'd see this as a big old red flag. That is, he may have a good reason, thinks you're using this as a way out of dealing with other stuff, worried about his family, whatever. If that's the case, that should be a conversation the two of you have. The fact that this didn't create some sort of conversation about plans -- were you ever really planning on getting married? is there a timeline? do certain things need to happen before marriage is a possibility? -- is concerning, especially because you have some disability-related concerns that do seem to be genuine and time-sensitive.
As to how you accept it, you may need to work with him to find ways to solve your problems that are not marriage related. Can he help you go back to school? Can he give you support managing your disability? What else does he have to offer? If he's not offering to be part of the team that is helping solve the problems you are currently having, I'd be very concerned about the future of your partnership.
posted by jessamyn at 8:12 AM on October 5, 2009 [13 favorites]
In hindsight (being 20/20 and all) I really should have seen that conversation and his reluctance and flat out discomfort as a sign that while I felt comfortable and stable and in a "making plans" frame of mind, that was not how he felt at all. We split up about a year later and while it was for the best the last year or so of our relationship was sub-optimal.
So, I'd say unless there's some very specific reason why he's saying no, I'd see this as a big old red flag. That is, he may have a good reason, thinks you're using this as a way out of dealing with other stuff, worried about his family, whatever. If that's the case, that should be a conversation the two of you have. The fact that this didn't create some sort of conversation about plans -- were you ever really planning on getting married? is there a timeline? do certain things need to happen before marriage is a possibility? -- is concerning, especially because you have some disability-related concerns that do seem to be genuine and time-sensitive.
As to how you accept it, you may need to work with him to find ways to solve your problems that are not marriage related. Can he help you go back to school? Can he give you support managing your disability? What else does he have to offer? If he's not offering to be part of the team that is helping solve the problems you are currently having, I'd be very concerned about the future of your partnership.
posted by jessamyn at 8:12 AM on October 5, 2009 [13 favorites]
To be charitable to your boyfriend, I can see how he might feel backed into a corner by this situation, and might be reacting against a somewhat overwhelming pressure to marry you. It may just be that he wants to take the decision himself and feels that he no longer has that option.
With that said, he needs to understand that it's a choice between the luxury of deciding to marry without extenuating circumstances, or you moving to another country. You have to take care of yourself, so I would advise you to start making arrangements to move to somewhere that works for you. If he decides that he can't handle you going, that's his problem to solve -- not yours.
posted by ukdanae at 8:13 AM on October 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
With that said, he needs to understand that it's a choice between the luxury of deciding to marry without extenuating circumstances, or you moving to another country. You have to take care of yourself, so I would advise you to start making arrangements to move to somewhere that works for you. If he decides that he can't handle you going, that's his problem to solve -- not yours.
posted by ukdanae at 8:13 AM on October 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
I'm going to be part of the pile-on here and say that his logic sucks and you need to have your needs met, specifically your disability managed. If he's not willing to help you make that happen while you live in his country, then you need to move back to your country where you can do it by yourself.
DTMFA
posted by hollygoheavy at 8:13 AM on October 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
DTMFA
posted by hollygoheavy at 8:13 AM on October 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
He says he thinks marrying so I can get PR would make the marriage meaningless
...but then he cries at the thought of being without you? It would seem then that the purpose of the marriage would be to further enable the building of a happy and stable life together. You know, without all the apartness and crying.
Your specific question is "how do I accept this" so here is my answer: Accept that you have been presented with little help and at best conflicting signals regarding your situation in this country and relationship. Thus, make plans to go back to your country and take care of yourself unless something happens to change your situation (which could be marriage, or could be him coming with you, or any number of other things).
posted by mikepop at 8:19 AM on October 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
...but then he cries at the thought of being without you? It would seem then that the purpose of the marriage would be to further enable the building of a happy and stable life together. You know, without all the apartness and crying.
Your specific question is "how do I accept this" so here is my answer: Accept that you have been presented with little help and at best conflicting signals regarding your situation in this country and relationship. Thus, make plans to go back to your country and take care of yourself unless something happens to change your situation (which could be marriage, or could be him coming with you, or any number of other things).
posted by mikepop at 8:19 AM on October 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
I suggested me moving back to my country, at which he started crying and said he doesn't ever want to be apart from me (and he doesn't cry easily).
It sounds like he's very comfortable having things on his own terms, convenient, and without ties to lock him down in case he wants to drop you and move on.
I'm really suspicious of guys who say I don't ever want to be without you followed by But I'm not interested in marriage. Because that's a guy who wants to have a easy out on call, and not have to pay for a lawyer.
There are literally hundreds and hundreds of LEGAL status changes that come with getting married, least of all in your case, citizenship. As it is, you've got no status, and the moment he feels he doesn't want to deal with your disability, all he has to do is walk out the door and wash his hands of the whole situation.
"I dont' attach a lot of importance to marriage..." yadda, yadda, yadda.
Fooey.
Because the law attaches quite a great deal of importance to the status of marriage, and in the eyes of the law you're a room mate, not a spouse of partner. If he ends up in the hospital unconscious, they night not even let you into see him.
As someone who has spent 11 years working on his marriage and relationship wit Lexica, I think you need to take a good, hard look at your future here, and with this guy.
He wanted you to move to this country, to move in with him, but not get married? Bad sign. At best, he's a flake who doesn't think things through. At worst, he's into sex with you, but not enough to want to build a committed, legally binding life together with you.
I predict he's going to have another discussion with you, the "It's not working out like I thought" discussion.
I think you need to take a serious, unsentimental look at hat you need to take care of your self, health-wise and residency-wise. And if you come to the conclusion that staying in this country is untenable with out getting married, then you need to be very clear about that with him.
Because while having you as resident concubine may be quite convenient for him, it's not giving you what I would deem long-term security.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 8:21 AM on October 5, 2009 [22 favorites]
It sounds like he's very comfortable having things on his own terms, convenient, and without ties to lock him down in case he wants to drop you and move on.
I'm really suspicious of guys who say I don't ever want to be without you followed by But I'm not interested in marriage. Because that's a guy who wants to have a easy out on call, and not have to pay for a lawyer.
There are literally hundreds and hundreds of LEGAL status changes that come with getting married, least of all in your case, citizenship. As it is, you've got no status, and the moment he feels he doesn't want to deal with your disability, all he has to do is walk out the door and wash his hands of the whole situation.
"I dont' attach a lot of importance to marriage..." yadda, yadda, yadda.
Fooey.
Because the law attaches quite a great deal of importance to the status of marriage, and in the eyes of the law you're a room mate, not a spouse of partner. If he ends up in the hospital unconscious, they night not even let you into see him.
As someone who has spent 11 years working on his marriage and relationship wit Lexica, I think you need to take a good, hard look at your future here, and with this guy.
He wanted you to move to this country, to move in with him, but not get married? Bad sign. At best, he's a flake who doesn't think things through. At worst, he's into sex with you, but not enough to want to build a committed, legally binding life together with you.
I predict he's going to have another discussion with you, the "It's not working out like I thought" discussion.
I think you need to take a serious, unsentimental look at hat you need to take care of your self, health-wise and residency-wise. And if you come to the conclusion that staying in this country is untenable with out getting married, then you need to be very clear about that with him.
Because while having you as resident concubine may be quite convenient for him, it's not giving you what I would deem long-term security.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 8:21 AM on October 5, 2009 [22 favorites]
Going with the majority on this one. Ok it sucks that this has to be the situation in which you guys enter marriage but seriously this is what being married is about. It's doing what's necessary to make the relationship work, even if it doesn't exactly match your ideal plans.
But to just to offer up a different perspective, maybe he had some fairytale idea that when he was ready to bring up marriage it would be in a more traditional sense where he had a grand scheme of proposing you on top of the Eiffel tower and now reality is hitting and it's a lot less romantic and a lot more practical and rather than being an abstract concept it is now Real and a lot sooner than expected.
I'm feeling really screwed over right now - I left my entire life for him, and he won't give me what I need in order to build a new one here.
Have you told him this? I mean, obviously don't place blame on him because it was entirely your choice to change your life for him but you're just asking for that sort of commitment from him now.
I think he deserves some time to think about it and come to term with the situation (perhaps he'll surprise you after all) but also start making some plans to take care of yourself. You can always change your mind if he does too.
posted by like_neon at 8:25 AM on October 5, 2009
But to just to offer up a different perspective, maybe he had some fairytale idea that when he was ready to bring up marriage it would be in a more traditional sense where he had a grand scheme of proposing you on top of the Eiffel tower and now reality is hitting and it's a lot less romantic and a lot more practical and rather than being an abstract concept it is now Real and a lot sooner than expected.
I'm feeling really screwed over right now - I left my entire life for him, and he won't give me what I need in order to build a new one here.
Have you told him this? I mean, obviously don't place blame on him because it was entirely your choice to change your life for him but you're just asking for that sort of commitment from him now.
I think he deserves some time to think about it and come to term with the situation (perhaps he'll surprise you after all) but also start making some plans to take care of yourself. You can always change your mind if he does too.
posted by like_neon at 8:25 AM on October 5, 2009
Red flag to me too. I dated someone in his home country for 6 years, and in year 4 I had to leave that country for visa-related reasons. He wouldn't marry me then, in spite of always saying I was "the one" yadda yadda yadda.
Long story short, it ended badly. Six months in with the man I live with now, he pre-empted any question of whether that would happen again by saying he would marry me if I needed it, and would wait and marry me later if I didn't. Which he reminds me of. Often. That I even put up with the words and actions of the first guy mystifies me now, when I look back.
posted by Cuppatea at 8:26 AM on October 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Long story short, it ended badly. Six months in with the man I live with now, he pre-empted any question of whether that would happen again by saying he would marry me if I needed it, and would wait and marry me later if I didn't. Which he reminds me of. Often. That I even put up with the words and actions of the first guy mystifies me now, when I look back.
posted by Cuppatea at 8:26 AM on October 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I suggested me moving back to my country, at which he started crying
Anything stopping him from moving there with you?
posted by adamrice at 8:28 AM on October 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Anything stopping him from moving there with you?
posted by adamrice at 8:28 AM on October 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
I understand that a marriage in order to get you citizenship is not really the ideal reasoning, so I'm vaguely sympathetic to his first reaction being "I want a romantic proposal based on love, I will say no". He then should have slapped himself and realised he was being an idiot and proposed to you (given that he seems to want a permanent relationship).
Like many people here, I think that the only real choice you have is to move back home. You're sorry, you love him, but you need to be able to go to school and manage your disability. You'd love for him to join you (if this is true) and once you have finished your degree you may look into moving back with permanent residency (if this is true), but you cannot continue to put your health and your career on hold.
I rather wonder if, after seeing your disability get worse, he got scared of what he'd need to do to help you/what the future might lead to/something else disability related.
posted by jeather at 8:29 AM on October 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
Like many people here, I think that the only real choice you have is to move back home. You're sorry, you love him, but you need to be able to go to school and manage your disability. You'd love for him to join you (if this is true) and once you have finished your degree you may look into moving back with permanent residency (if this is true), but you cannot continue to put your health and your career on hold.
I rather wonder if, after seeing your disability get worse, he got scared of what he'd need to do to help you/what the future might lead to/something else disability related.
posted by jeather at 8:29 AM on October 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
Signs say that you guys love each other: you want to marry him and make a life in his country; he wants the marriage to be romantically meaningful and not about convenience, and he doesn't want you to leave. You want the same thing (to be together) but you're interpreting the means (the marriage v. living together) in different ways.
I'd start with getting clear on the non-immigration reasons for why you want to marry this guy. Then make sure he knows about them. And ask him about why he wants to stay with you. If there are such obvious benefits to getting married, and yet he's so averse to it even though he wants to be with you, there's got to be something else there. It may take some time to surface. It's not about getting him to change his mind, but getting to the bottom of whatever fears are going on for him.
You deal with it by reminding yourself that you will take care of yourself, whatever that requires.
posted by alicat at 8:30 AM on October 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
I'd start with getting clear on the non-immigration reasons for why you want to marry this guy. Then make sure he knows about them. And ask him about why he wants to stay with you. If there are such obvious benefits to getting married, and yet he's so averse to it even though he wants to be with you, there's got to be something else there. It may take some time to surface. It's not about getting him to change his mind, but getting to the bottom of whatever fears are going on for him.
You deal with it by reminding yourself that you will take care of yourself, whatever that requires.
posted by alicat at 8:30 AM on October 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
Take care of yourself first. It's like the prime directive. You have a lot of needs and they aren't going to be met in this situation. They are real, legitimate needs and you deserve not to live in such consternation. If he can't do this for you, I would be concerned not only about his emotional readiness for a relationship like yours, but his sheer pragmatic planning abilities, given the obvious benefits to you both of pursuing a legal marriage. Yes, he might feel backed into a corner, but he still has a choice to make, and he's letting you know that his feelings trump your needs - not a real good sign.
posted by Miko at 8:32 AM on October 5, 2009 [13 favorites]
posted by Miko at 8:32 AM on October 5, 2009 [13 favorites]
Male here who dated woman for long time that moved across the country to live with me. Red Flag. At best he is unsure. At worst, he will never marry you and has no intention of it.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:36 AM on October 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:36 AM on October 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm not going to take sides here. He has his reasons and I'm sure he validates them in his mind. Also you are not saying what your disability is. Is it physical? Mental? You said it got worse. This might be his reasoning.
You, on the other hand, need to ask yourself if he does not want to commit to you where is your relationship going? Honestly, you moved to another flipping country for this man to be with him. I would think that he would take your relationship serious and marry you to make things easier. I would dump him and do whatever it takes to complete your education and take care of your health.
posted by Mastercheddaar at 8:39 AM on October 5, 2009
You, on the other hand, need to ask yourself if he does not want to commit to you where is your relationship going? Honestly, you moved to another flipping country for this man to be with him. I would think that he would take your relationship serious and marry you to make things easier. I would dump him and do whatever it takes to complete your education and take care of your health.
posted by Mastercheddaar at 8:39 AM on October 5, 2009
I'm not sure what you mean about a worsening disability. He may be (justifiably) freaked out by that and not want to say so. Is moving back to your country with him and not getting married an option? This was you can progress with your life, medical care, etc.. and he could potentially work through his stuff.
posted by teg4rvn at 8:41 AM on October 5, 2009
posted by teg4rvn at 8:41 AM on October 5, 2009
A bit anecdotal, perhaps, but I've been in a very similar situation to you (moved oceans away from my family for my then-boyfriend). From the start, we knew it was a big commitment from me, so we discussed marriage (like you, it seems) and agreed that we were really building a life together, so it would definitely be on the table in the future (like you). We knew pretty much from the beginning that our building a life together would be dictated quite a bit by immigration issues.
So, when I'd had enough of the stress, paperwork and spending a month in my country applying for visas and suggested we bump things up, he kinda laughed initially (I'm a chicken and brought it up more like I was joking), but after a long talk or two, we decided it was the best route to help us build our life together [mixing metaphors much?].
Somethings that probably affected my now-husband's reaction:
1) We had talked a lot about marriage before and how stressed I was about immigration issues; 2) He'd said on many occasions that he'd like to marry me and that he knew I was the one he'd want to build a family with; 3) We reeeeeaaaalllly talked through whether getting married a bit sooner than we'd planned was really the right choice.
In short, if you haven't had any previous, really serious 'let's get married' talks with your bf, his reaction, though not ideal, is not entirely unexpected. It's a huge commitment. If he really is someone you'd want to build a life with, have a few more talks with him making that clear (ie 'you are amazing and the person I'd want to grow old with. I'd want to marry you anyway, but could we make it a bit sooner so I can healthily grow old with you?'). If he's still against it, it seems he's not at the same place you are and maybe it's time to build your life somewhere else.
posted by brambory at 8:51 AM on October 5, 2009
So, when I'd had enough of the stress, paperwork and spending a month in my country applying for visas and suggested we bump things up, he kinda laughed initially (I'm a chicken and brought it up more like I was joking), but after a long talk or two, we decided it was the best route to help us build our life together [mixing metaphors much?].
Somethings that probably affected my now-husband's reaction:
1) We had talked a lot about marriage before and how stressed I was about immigration issues; 2) He'd said on many occasions that he'd like to marry me and that he knew I was the one he'd want to build a family with; 3) We reeeeeaaaalllly talked through whether getting married a bit sooner than we'd planned was really the right choice.
In short, if you haven't had any previous, really serious 'let's get married' talks with your bf, his reaction, though not ideal, is not entirely unexpected. It's a huge commitment. If he really is someone you'd want to build a life with, have a few more talks with him making that clear (ie 'you are amazing and the person I'd want to grow old with. I'd want to marry you anyway, but could we make it a bit sooner so I can healthily grow old with you?'). If he's still against it, it seems he's not at the same place you are and maybe it's time to build your life somewhere else.
posted by brambory at 8:51 AM on October 5, 2009
"how do I accept this?"
Acceptance is hard thing when one has been rejected by a lover and it doesn't come easy. Having been so firmly rejected and expended so much time and energy on this relationship, it's time for you to make plans to put yourself first. What's best for you now? Moving back home and going to school? Staying there and applying for PR? Whatever it is, you need to start taking steps to do it, no matter what he says or thinks or feels. You need to take care of you with the idea that he's not going to be there, because he's pointedly said he's not going to be there in the manner that you need.
Taking these practical steps will help move your forward, give you something to focus on and help with the acceptance process. Full acknowledge of your loss will probably come in spurts as you take these steps and it'll be painful, very painful, but at least you'll be moving forward and not looking back too much and wallowing.
Finally, your feeling of being screwed over is completely justified. You've rearranged your life for him and he's unwilling to take steps to do the same, especially when it's something that would help you immensely.
That said, don't be too hard on him. He's being an ass, yes, but he may be overwhelmed by the prospect, particularly with your disability getting worse, he may find that frightening, especially now that a life long commitment is looming. None of this makes him right in his decision or excuses his shitty actions, but if your goal is acceptance, it may help to see him as he is: human and flawed. Sometimes we may place the people we love on a pedestal of sorts, but in the end they're just flesh and blood and can fail us.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:51 AM on October 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Acceptance is hard thing when one has been rejected by a lover and it doesn't come easy. Having been so firmly rejected and expended so much time and energy on this relationship, it's time for you to make plans to put yourself first. What's best for you now? Moving back home and going to school? Staying there and applying for PR? Whatever it is, you need to start taking steps to do it, no matter what he says or thinks or feels. You need to take care of you with the idea that he's not going to be there, because he's pointedly said he's not going to be there in the manner that you need.
Taking these practical steps will help move your forward, give you something to focus on and help with the acceptance process. Full acknowledge of your loss will probably come in spurts as you take these steps and it'll be painful, very painful, but at least you'll be moving forward and not looking back too much and wallowing.
Finally, your feeling of being screwed over is completely justified. You've rearranged your life for him and he's unwilling to take steps to do the same, especially when it's something that would help you immensely.
That said, don't be too hard on him. He's being an ass, yes, but he may be overwhelmed by the prospect, particularly with your disability getting worse, he may find that frightening, especially now that a life long commitment is looming. None of this makes him right in his decision or excuses his shitty actions, but if your goal is acceptance, it may help to see him as he is: human and flawed. Sometimes we may place the people we love on a pedestal of sorts, but in the end they're just flesh and blood and can fail us.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:51 AM on October 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I just had the same argument. Marriage as opposed to living together saying the words pseudo marriage is 100% about legal and financial differences, but activates many instinctive fears. To ask for marriage vs living together indefinitely it's natural to point out the advantages, but that activates even more fears. Maybe if you make it about the things marriage is traditionally about and give him a little time to settle on the concept he'll come around. For example, my SO and I would save a lot on taxes, but that's been banned from being mentioned one week on either side of a proposal. I've said a lot of dumb things in reaction to situations I didn't expect. In the best case that's what he's done just now.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 9:01 AM on October 5, 2009
posted by a robot made out of meat at 9:01 AM on October 5, 2009
You have sacrificed a great deal for this relationship. He appears unwilling to sacrifice... a small amount. He also seems not to grasp the amount that you have sacrificed, and while that shouldn't be a string you pull on to get whatever you want, it ought to carry some weight here.
He needs to step back and think about what's more meaningful here: his feelings about marriage, or his commitment to your personal security. If he's not prepared even to do a county courthouse (or Vegas Elvis) wedding so that you can head towards a degree of security in what remains a foreign country to you, it may well be time to go home, because that suggests to me that he's still treating your relationship like an extended holiday romance.
posted by holgate at 9:02 AM on October 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
He needs to step back and think about what's more meaningful here: his feelings about marriage, or his commitment to your personal security. If he's not prepared even to do a county courthouse (or Vegas Elvis) wedding so that you can head towards a degree of security in what remains a foreign country to you, it may well be time to go home, because that suggests to me that he's still treating your relationship like an extended holiday romance.
posted by holgate at 9:02 AM on October 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
A relationship is about give-and-take. You've given up your home country (so I assume, family, friends, and familiar culture), health care, education, and by extension career. Every year that ticks by is one in which the consequences of this are getting greater: You make less money every year than you would with your education complete and in your chosen field; your health gets worse; possibly your ties to your home country get weaker.
How do you accept his rejection of marriage? By reminding yourself that although he says he loves you, it is within his power to fix these things and yet he won't. He won't give; he only takes. Even when faced with the idea that you will leave, he cries but he does not give.
If it were me, I'd move back home. I'd do that even if, while packing, he changes his stance on the marriage idea. He's reframing his selfishness as lofty ideals.
posted by Houstonian at 9:06 AM on October 5, 2009 [10 favorites]
How do you accept his rejection of marriage? By reminding yourself that although he says he loves you, it is within his power to fix these things and yet he won't. He won't give; he only takes. Even when faced with the idea that you will leave, he cries but he does not give.
If it were me, I'd move back home. I'd do that even if, while packing, he changes his stance on the marriage idea. He's reframing his selfishness as lofty ideals.
posted by Houstonian at 9:06 AM on October 5, 2009 [10 favorites]
He says he thinks marrying so I can get PR would make the marriage meaningless.
Is he holding out for a meaningful marriage? When, or how does he envision this taking place? I suspect he doesn't envision it at all and is just arguing to avoid it completely. After all, what will he get for his marriage that he can't get by crying instead?
posted by Obscure Reference at 9:12 AM on October 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Is he holding out for a meaningful marriage? When, or how does he envision this taking place? I suspect he doesn't envision it at all and is just arguing to avoid it completely. After all, what will he get for his marriage that he can't get by crying instead?
posted by Obscure Reference at 9:12 AM on October 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I am going to go against the crowd here and say your boyfriend was justified in refusing a proposal couched in practical terms. Marriage is tough. If you aren't there for purely voluntary reasons you won't last. You'll end up feeling confined by that point of logic on which you proposed. Regardless of how much you (both) may really want to get married, when times are tough you will end up feeling you only got married for your citizenship or finances or whatever reason you used to convince your partner to commit. I think you would be points ahead to reconsider your own motives here. I understand that you really feel you want to get married but if you let yourself believe even for a moment that you are doing it for practical reasons (needs?) then it will taint your marriage. Please don't do that to yourself. Do your best to make a life of your own whatever it takes and when you are sure you don't need him, then propose. Propose just for the sheer joy you take in wanting to spend your lives together.
posted by stubborn at 9:20 AM on October 5, 2009
posted by stubborn at 9:20 AM on October 5, 2009
I think that what everyone seems to be saying is, you don't actually have to accept this.
posted by hermitosis at 9:23 AM on October 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by hermitosis at 9:23 AM on October 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I married for exactly the reasons you describe. In the end, I couldn't stay abroad anyway and my spouse and I moved back to the US.
And yes, being married helped immigration.
And we are now divorced.
I know that it seems like it's THE solution, but it's not. It looks like it's going to be so much easier! But... it doesn't actually do anything to strengthen the relationship and then you get to a point where you realize that there are big inherent flaws that, had you realized, you wouldn't have gotten married in the first place - except that it was the only way to keep the relationship going.
It sucks. And long distance relationships suck. And inter-cultural relationships are really difficult - even if you do get married!
From my perspective, you have to suck this up as something you have to deal with. If you want to stay with your boyfriend in his country, find a way to do it that doesn't involve being married. Don't even consider the fact that it would be "easier" if you were, because you're not going to be. It's not an option. Just like it would be "easier" if you were a naturalized born-there type citizen - but you're not! So just don't think about it!
So, your options are to do what's best for you and take care of yourself or to give in to your boyfriend whenever he cries. He's holding all the cards here. He's decided he doesn't want to marry you, but he doesn't want to deal with the practical rammifications of an inter-cultural relationship with someone with a disability (seriously, am I writing this from my past? Because you sound like me.) either. Lay it out there unemotionally in terms of medical treatment, cost, career, education, etc. "I want to do A and it's going to cost me $X and the best way for me to do that is to move back and I'll come visit you in a few months."
If he can't deal with that AND doesn't want to cough up a ring, he's put himself at an impasse which is not your problem. Your problem is taking care of yourself. If he doesn't want to lose you, he needs to play ball and negotiate a compromise that meets your needs if he's also serious about not getting married.
You may have to accept that this is just the end of the road, that you can't possibly negotiate taking care of yourself and staying with him under these circumstances. In that case: TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF. My experience tells me that putting off your needs to stay with somebody who is effectively controlling the relationship through contradictory edicts is just delaying the inevitable. If you're not both willing to WORK for the relationship, it will fail. Work does not mean crying when the other person suggests something you don't like. Work means talking it out.
You should never, EVER feel like you've "Given up your life" for a relationship. The second you feel that way, it's really true. A relationship should ADD TO your life, not require it as payment.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 9:34 AM on October 5, 2009 [17 favorites]
And yes, being married helped immigration.
And we are now divorced.
I know that it seems like it's THE solution, but it's not. It looks like it's going to be so much easier! But... it doesn't actually do anything to strengthen the relationship and then you get to a point where you realize that there are big inherent flaws that, had you realized, you wouldn't have gotten married in the first place - except that it was the only way to keep the relationship going.
It sucks. And long distance relationships suck. And inter-cultural relationships are really difficult - even if you do get married!
From my perspective, you have to suck this up as something you have to deal with. If you want to stay with your boyfriend in his country, find a way to do it that doesn't involve being married. Don't even consider the fact that it would be "easier" if you were, because you're not going to be. It's not an option. Just like it would be "easier" if you were a naturalized born-there type citizen - but you're not! So just don't think about it!
So, your options are to do what's best for you and take care of yourself or to give in to your boyfriend whenever he cries. He's holding all the cards here. He's decided he doesn't want to marry you, but he doesn't want to deal with the practical rammifications of an inter-cultural relationship with someone with a disability (seriously, am I writing this from my past? Because you sound like me.) either. Lay it out there unemotionally in terms of medical treatment, cost, career, education, etc. "I want to do A and it's going to cost me $X and the best way for me to do that is to move back and I'll come visit you in a few months."
If he can't deal with that AND doesn't want to cough up a ring, he's put himself at an impasse which is not your problem. Your problem is taking care of yourself. If he doesn't want to lose you, he needs to play ball and negotiate a compromise that meets your needs if he's also serious about not getting married.
You may have to accept that this is just the end of the road, that you can't possibly negotiate taking care of yourself and staying with him under these circumstances. In that case: TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF. My experience tells me that putting off your needs to stay with somebody who is effectively controlling the relationship through contradictory edicts is just delaying the inevitable. If you're not both willing to WORK for the relationship, it will fail. Work does not mean crying when the other person suggests something you don't like. Work means talking it out.
You should never, EVER feel like you've "Given up your life" for a relationship. The second you feel that way, it's really true. A relationship should ADD TO your life, not require it as payment.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 9:34 AM on October 5, 2009 [17 favorites]
Here's how you accept it: look at marriage vows: richer or poorer, better or worse, sickness or health etc etc. Marriage of equals and all that.
Unless one is very lucky, every marriage will face a test of some sorts. Bottom line: it's a commitment to sacrifice and helping the other one out.
Look, either he's failed the test either because he's not the right kind of person or because he's not willing to make those sacrifices for you. He couldn't, by definition, agree to those vows [with you]. It's not necessarily a horrendous character flaw on his part but it is hard to start a marriage well when you can't clear the first hurdle.
For couples who have been together a meaningful amount of time, who have meaningful feelings for one another and who have already discussed making a meaningful commitment there isn't really such a thing as a meaningless marriage.
My advice is to tell him your thoughts and tell him to have a think about what he wants to do. If you're ready for the whole richer/poorer thing then he should already be thinking that you're giving up enough and it's his time to give a little. If he's not then, I'm sorry to say, he's not husband material. Move on or off and start rebuilding the life you want.
He may be Mr Right at some point in the future, but the funny thing about marriage proposals/discussions is that once you've said no you don't automatically get the right to ask/be asked again. The risk is his.
posted by MuffinMan at 9:36 AM on October 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Unless one is very lucky, every marriage will face a test of some sorts. Bottom line: it's a commitment to sacrifice and helping the other one out.
Look, either he's failed the test either because he's not the right kind of person or because he's not willing to make those sacrifices for you. He couldn't, by definition, agree to those vows [with you]. It's not necessarily a horrendous character flaw on his part but it is hard to start a marriage well when you can't clear the first hurdle.
For couples who have been together a meaningful amount of time, who have meaningful feelings for one another and who have already discussed making a meaningful commitment there isn't really such a thing as a meaningless marriage.
My advice is to tell him your thoughts and tell him to have a think about what he wants to do. If you're ready for the whole richer/poorer thing then he should already be thinking that you're giving up enough and it's his time to give a little. If he's not then, I'm sorry to say, he's not husband material. Move on or off and start rebuilding the life you want.
He may be Mr Right at some point in the future, but the funny thing about marriage proposals/discussions is that once you've said no you don't automatically get the right to ask/be asked again. The risk is his.
posted by MuffinMan at 9:36 AM on October 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
holgate writes "You have sacrificed a great deal for this relationship. He appears unwilling to sacrifice... a small amount."
In agreement with stubborn marriage is not a small sacrifice; it's a lifetime commitment. It's essentially the penultimate commitment one can make after deciding to have a child.
My take anonymous is you need to look after yourself. If one of your life goals is marriage you have to have it out with him whether he a) wants to get married to anyone and b) if yes if that anyone could be you and c) if yes what kind of time line he sees as realistic. If the response is negative to any of those questions then you have decide whether you are OK with not obtaining that goal. If the answer to that is no then you need to break it off with your boyfriend in order to start looking for someone who has compatible life goals.
The answer to C may require some discussion and thought by both of you but it shouldn't take more than a few weeks to decide IMO. The practicalities come into play at this stage but shouldn't really be a consideration for A and B. Considering them before C just muddies the waters.
posted by Mitheral at 10:16 AM on October 5, 2009
In agreement with stubborn marriage is not a small sacrifice; it's a lifetime commitment. It's essentially the penultimate commitment one can make after deciding to have a child.
My take anonymous is you need to look after yourself. If one of your life goals is marriage you have to have it out with him whether he a) wants to get married to anyone and b) if yes if that anyone could be you and c) if yes what kind of time line he sees as realistic. If the response is negative to any of those questions then you have decide whether you are OK with not obtaining that goal. If the answer to that is no then you need to break it off with your boyfriend in order to start looking for someone who has compatible life goals.
The answer to C may require some discussion and thought by both of you but it shouldn't take more than a few weeks to decide IMO. The practicalities come into play at this stage but shouldn't really be a consideration for A and B. Considering them before C just muddies the waters.
posted by Mitheral at 10:16 AM on October 5, 2009
I have a disability that is expensive (at best) and impossible (at worst) to manage properly here until I get permanent residency.
I'm sorry to double-post, but I just had this thought. If your disability suddenly got much worse, to the point that you could not manage it at all (due to cost or lack of facilities), would you be bitter or angry about your boyfriend's stance? Would you feel that he just didn't care enough to protect you from this possibility? Would you feel that you made a good trade -- you got him, but you got lack of medical care too? Would you be able to accept your part in that decision?
Those might be some things to think about, while coming to terms with his rejection (and hopefully while packing).
posted by Houstonian at 10:48 AM on October 5, 2009
I'm sorry to double-post, but I just had this thought. If your disability suddenly got much worse, to the point that you could not manage it at all (due to cost or lack of facilities), would you be bitter or angry about your boyfriend's stance? Would you feel that he just didn't care enough to protect you from this possibility? Would you feel that you made a good trade -- you got him, but you got lack of medical care too? Would you be able to accept your part in that decision?
Those might be some things to think about, while coming to terms with his rejection (and hopefully while packing).
posted by Houstonian at 10:48 AM on October 5, 2009
I can certainly understand your boyfriend's reasoning, and likewise, I see your perspective as well. Marriage is a huge step, and no one wants to feel pressured into because of circumstances like immigration issues, even if it's what you're ultimately working towards. On the other hand, you need resources to live a productive and happy life beyond being with your partner, so you should do what is best for you. As I see it you have a few options:
1. Move back to your country, have a long distance relationship for a bit
2. Move back to your country, and your boyfriend comes with you
3. Move back to your country, and break up
As you can see, all of them involve moving back to your country. If he doesn't want to get married right now because of your current situation, that is totally understandable, but then he needs to decide whether he wants you in his life and what he is willing to sacrifice. You need to take care of yourself, and ideally you would do that with him, but he has to be willing to compromise on something if this relationship is going to survive.
To directly answer your question, you accept his decision by adjusting your expectations and making decisions about you and your well being. Either he will step up or he won't, and if he doesn't, then marriage really wasn't a good idea for the two of you, and as painful as that would be, it's better to know that before you become husband and wife. Best of luck!
posted by katemcd at 11:12 AM on October 5, 2009
1. Move back to your country, have a long distance relationship for a bit
2. Move back to your country, and your boyfriend comes with you
3. Move back to your country, and break up
As you can see, all of them involve moving back to your country. If he doesn't want to get married right now because of your current situation, that is totally understandable, but then he needs to decide whether he wants you in his life and what he is willing to sacrifice. You need to take care of yourself, and ideally you would do that with him, but he has to be willing to compromise on something if this relationship is going to survive.
To directly answer your question, you accept his decision by adjusting your expectations and making decisions about you and your well being. Either he will step up or he won't, and if he doesn't, then marriage really wasn't a good idea for the two of you, and as painful as that would be, it's better to know that before you become husband and wife. Best of luck!
posted by katemcd at 11:12 AM on October 5, 2009
Sorry to make 1+1=2 conclusions here but are you saying all was fine until your disability worsened and now he doesn't want to marry you?
You're better than this chump. Do what you have to do to live your life without him and what makes you happy. He's point blank telling you no and it sounds like you disability is part of it, and that's pretty crappy.
All breakups are tough. I'm sorry you're going through it, but it's for the best.
Good luck and wish you better health.
posted by stormpooper at 11:19 AM on October 5, 2009
You're better than this chump. Do what you have to do to live your life without him and what makes you happy. He's point blank telling you no and it sounds like you disability is part of it, and that's pretty crappy.
All breakups are tough. I'm sorry you're going through it, but it's for the best.
Good luck and wish you better health.
posted by stormpooper at 11:19 AM on October 5, 2009
marriage is not a small sacrifice; it's a lifetime commitment.
That's a nice thought, but in situations like this, where the squeaky wheels of immigration bureaucracy are concerned, marriage is a means to an end, the end being that lifetime commitment and security. (Likewise, people get married for health benefits, or divorced for survivor benefits, when there are institutional forces that make it the pragmatic option.) I'd certainly be more sympathetic to such thinking if the relationship described by the OP were on more level ground.
(A couple of friends who have been together nearly 20 years, have three kids, but have never felt the need to get married in their home country recently got hitched in the county courthouse because a visa that allows them a slightly longer stay in the US requires them to do so.)
On the other hand, grapefruitmoon is on the mark: if you've already reached the point at which you feel that "your life" is sitting in a box gathering dust back in your home country, I'm not sure that marriage and/or permanent residence will change that.
posted by holgate at 11:19 AM on October 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
That's a nice thought, but in situations like this, where the squeaky wheels of immigration bureaucracy are concerned, marriage is a means to an end, the end being that lifetime commitment and security. (Likewise, people get married for health benefits, or divorced for survivor benefits, when there are institutional forces that make it the pragmatic option.) I'd certainly be more sympathetic to such thinking if the relationship described by the OP were on more level ground.
(A couple of friends who have been together nearly 20 years, have three kids, but have never felt the need to get married in their home country recently got hitched in the county courthouse because a visa that allows them a slightly longer stay in the US requires them to do so.)
On the other hand, grapefruitmoon is on the mark: if you've already reached the point at which you feel that "your life" is sitting in a box gathering dust back in your home country, I'm not sure that marriage and/or permanent residence will change that.
posted by holgate at 11:19 AM on October 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Given that you've been together for as long as you have, I don't think that it's improper for you to tell him to "put a ring on it" already. Don't let him guilt you out of getting what you want. If he says no, then you need to leave. If you don't, you're setting yourself up for a lifetime in which he gets to dictate the terms of your relationship.
posted by Citrus at 11:37 AM on October 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Citrus at 11:37 AM on October 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
God, I'm sorry. I have nothing more to add, just that I've been in a similar situation and it sucks.
Go home, take care of you. If he is not going to care enough to help you, which is what this comes down to, then it is up to you to take care of yourself and that's all you can do to accept this. Go home. Get your life back on track where you want it. It will make you feel better. Don't stay in limbo there. Good luck.
posted by Bueller at 11:47 AM on October 5, 2009
Go home, take care of you. If he is not going to care enough to help you, which is what this comes down to, then it is up to you to take care of yourself and that's all you can do to accept this. Go home. Get your life back on track where you want it. It will make you feel better. Don't stay in limbo there. Good luck.
posted by Bueller at 11:47 AM on October 5, 2009
I think there's a huge difference between suddenly deciding to get married because of a practical need, such as immigration or health insurance, and speeding up the timeline for marriage because of a practical need. It would be reasonable to balk at the former, but it is baffling to flat out refuse the latter. Let's consider our options, let's talk to a lawyer, let's think about moving to [your country]--all of these would be reasonable responses, but to dismiss your needs out of hand is just wrong.
He is essentially asking you to make a significant commitment to this relationship (putting your career on hold, risking your health, and staying in his home country without PR status) rather than the two of you making a significant commitment to each other.You're having difficulty reconciling this because it's unfair.
posted by Meg_Murry at 11:55 AM on October 5, 2009 [6 favorites]
He is essentially asking you to make a significant commitment to this relationship (putting your career on hold, risking your health, and staying in his home country without PR status) rather than the two of you making a significant commitment to each other.You're having difficulty reconciling this because it's unfair.
posted by Meg_Murry at 11:55 AM on October 5, 2009 [6 favorites]
The two most plausible takes on this are either that at heart he lacks full investment in your relationship and really isn't prepared to commit (which could be a drifting apart state that is only going to get worse or a not quite ready state which could get better), or that having the decision (and possibly the issue of the proposal itself which, sexist or not, a lot of us Y-chromosome cretins still cherish as a masculine perogative), and the timing, taken out of his hands and sort of sprung upon him unawares, elicited a knee-jerk resistance even though according to him, he is not at all against the basic underlying principle of the thing, i.e. being with you permanently.
The correct answer to your question "how do I accept this" is you must not accept this, because your health and your personal/career future are on the line, and his effectively denying you the ability to resolve these issues effectively where you arewhile emotionally asserting his desire for you to stay there just isn't acceptable. You can't accept it, you have to resolve it. If you really feel like you want to marry this person I think you have to go back into it with him, really stress that your legal status isn't the issue of why you want to marry him, just the motivation behind the timing, and tell him he deserves more time to think about it and agree to leave the topic aside for some amount of time. But be clear that you can't stay in his country as a non-PR indefinitely. Hopefully taking the pressure off while asserting the necessity of resolving your problems will allow him to deal with what he really wants. Meanwhile work on the logistics of returning to your home country, which you will have to do if he can't really commit to the future for whatever reason (you don't have to necessarily break up if you move back though you probably will) but don't rub his face in your reviewing the necessary preparations to move, try to give him some pressure free space to figure it out.
posted by nanojath at 12:02 PM on October 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
The correct answer to your question "how do I accept this" is you must not accept this, because your health and your personal/career future are on the line, and his effectively denying you the ability to resolve these issues effectively where you arewhile emotionally asserting his desire for you to stay there just isn't acceptable. You can't accept it, you have to resolve it. If you really feel like you want to marry this person I think you have to go back into it with him, really stress that your legal status isn't the issue of why you want to marry him, just the motivation behind the timing, and tell him he deserves more time to think about it and agree to leave the topic aside for some amount of time. But be clear that you can't stay in his country as a non-PR indefinitely. Hopefully taking the pressure off while asserting the necessity of resolving your problems will allow him to deal with what he really wants. Meanwhile work on the logistics of returning to your home country, which you will have to do if he can't really commit to the future for whatever reason (you don't have to necessarily break up if you move back though you probably will) but don't rub his face in your reviewing the necessary preparations to move, try to give him some pressure free space to figure it out.
posted by nanojath at 12:02 PM on October 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I don't see what you can do other than leave if he doesn't want to marry you. You might as well go. Don't feel guilty about asking for it and you don't have to try to come to terms with it and keep on. You just need to move on because this guy you're with isn't very grown up.
posted by anniecat at 12:03 PM on October 5, 2009
posted by anniecat at 12:03 PM on October 5, 2009
Although I agree with nanojath, an alternative to getting the PR status is completing your degree. Since the money is an issue then maybe he would be willing to pay the difference between citizen tuition and visa tuition (and possibly take on an unequal share of household expenses) so you can get your PR status ASAP without marriage.
posted by saucysault at 1:00 PM on October 5, 2009
posted by saucysault at 1:00 PM on October 5, 2009
how do I accept this?
You dont!
You need to make it very clear that you cannot continue to live with him without PR and as he doesn't want to get married you need to return to your home country where you can get the medical care and education that you need. If he wants to continue the relationship then he can come with your or you can be long-distance. If he wants to stay in his home country then after you've finished your degree you can apply for residency and join him as a PR.
Its not an ultimatum, you're still respecting his decision but you need to take care of yourself as your first priority.
And don't give in to emotional blackmail, if he doesn't ever want to be apart from you then he knows what he needs to do.
Maybe he has some big romantic notion of how a proposal should go but he's had a year to do that - if you've left your entire life to move to his country, its the least he could do.
You also don't say what your disability is but maybe that is also a factor?
posted by missmagenta at 1:06 PM on October 5, 2009
You dont!
You need to make it very clear that you cannot continue to live with him without PR and as he doesn't want to get married you need to return to your home country where you can get the medical care and education that you need. If he wants to continue the relationship then he can come with your or you can be long-distance. If he wants to stay in his home country then after you've finished your degree you can apply for residency and join him as a PR.
Its not an ultimatum, you're still respecting his decision but you need to take care of yourself as your first priority.
And don't give in to emotional blackmail, if he doesn't ever want to be apart from you then he knows what he needs to do.
Maybe he has some big romantic notion of how a proposal should go but he's had a year to do that - if you've left your entire life to move to his country, its the least he could do.
You also don't say what your disability is but maybe that is also a factor?
posted by missmagenta at 1:06 PM on October 5, 2009
If he still feels this way in a few days, you should listen to all the excellent advice posted here.
But I'd like to reiterate that he may be simply temporarily freaking out from the enormity and suddenness of the question. I speak as somebody who had been pushing for marriage for years but who freaked out when my now-husband proposed a date that was close enough to seem "real". It took me about 24 hours to come to my senses.
posted by wyzewoman at 1:09 PM on October 5, 2009
But I'd like to reiterate that he may be simply temporarily freaking out from the enormity and suddenness of the question. I speak as somebody who had been pushing for marriage for years but who freaked out when my now-husband proposed a date that was close enough to seem "real". It took me about 24 hours to come to my senses.
posted by wyzewoman at 1:09 PM on October 5, 2009
Plenty of marriages are somewhat involuntary, maybe less so now than 50 years ago. I think it makes them more likely to last, in that the power imbalance between the two will keep the less fortunate partner heavily practically invested in the marriage.
Well, I'm a data point against this. As I mentioned, I was in the OP's situation and got married. I am now divorced.
It actually puts TOO MUCH pressure on both partners to stay together for practical reasons because you have the feeling that if the relationship failed, your whole life would fall apart. And guess what! It happens! The relationship fails and your whole life falls apart at the seams!
Marriage can solve lots of legal hurdles, for sure, but I would never, ever advocate that anyone go into marriage to solve a problem. Sure, that works for now, but then three years from now, the problem's solved, you're still married, and you've just found out that you can't commit to remaining in the relationship because your spouse has just admitted to hating The Big Lebowski (or some other deal breaker). And if you got married for practical reasons - now, not only do you have to deal with the emotional rammifications of all this, but you have to figure out some OTHER way to get health insurance, stay in the country, etc.
So yeah, I'm totally on the other side of this coin. Getting married isn't a practical thing to do. It's a life-long commitment. Nothing "practical" about that. Yeah, it has bonuses, but those are largely to distract you from the fact that you are legally tied to this person for the REST OF YOUR NATURAL LIFE barring soul-eviscerating divorce proceedings.
(I can't emphasize enough how unpleasant divorce is. Mine was EASY by divorce standards and it felt like having my psychological guts scraped out with a melon baller for a few solid months. So much worse than a breakup when you find yourself having to tell a judge why your relationship failed.)
posted by grapefruitmoon at 1:24 PM on October 5, 2009
Well, I'm a data point against this. As I mentioned, I was in the OP's situation and got married. I am now divorced.
It actually puts TOO MUCH pressure on both partners to stay together for practical reasons because you have the feeling that if the relationship failed, your whole life would fall apart. And guess what! It happens! The relationship fails and your whole life falls apart at the seams!
Marriage can solve lots of legal hurdles, for sure, but I would never, ever advocate that anyone go into marriage to solve a problem. Sure, that works for now, but then three years from now, the problem's solved, you're still married, and you've just found out that you can't commit to remaining in the relationship because your spouse has just admitted to hating The Big Lebowski (or some other deal breaker). And if you got married for practical reasons - now, not only do you have to deal with the emotional rammifications of all this, but you have to figure out some OTHER way to get health insurance, stay in the country, etc.
So yeah, I'm totally on the other side of this coin. Getting married isn't a practical thing to do. It's a life-long commitment. Nothing "practical" about that. Yeah, it has bonuses, but those are largely to distract you from the fact that you are legally tied to this person for the REST OF YOUR NATURAL LIFE barring soul-eviscerating divorce proceedings.
(I can't emphasize enough how unpleasant divorce is. Mine was EASY by divorce standards and it felt like having my psychological guts scraped out with a melon baller for a few solid months. So much worse than a breakup when you find yourself having to tell a judge why your relationship failed.)
posted by grapefruitmoon at 1:24 PM on October 5, 2009
Looks like your choices are: marry or go back to your home country. And marry has been taken off the list.
I think you have to go, and make it clear that you are going because you have to live your life properly, and that it is not a way to blackmail him into marriage. How he responds to that will tell you a lot over the following months. If he responds by proposing marriage instantly, do not accept.
I'm hesitant to say DTMFA, because you've been together a while, and lived together, but this situation seems to be inherently non-compromisable. If it takes some time apart to resolve one way or the other, that's better than resentment on either part.
Most important thing, be clear and honest, act decisively.
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 1:57 PM on October 5, 2009
I think you have to go, and make it clear that you are going because you have to live your life properly, and that it is not a way to blackmail him into marriage. How he responds to that will tell you a lot over the following months. If he responds by proposing marriage instantly, do not accept.
I'm hesitant to say DTMFA, because you've been together a while, and lived together, but this situation seems to be inherently non-compromisable. If it takes some time apart to resolve one way or the other, that's better than resentment on either part.
Most important thing, be clear and honest, act decisively.
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 1:57 PM on October 5, 2009
I don't think we know enough here to use the 'D'-word quite so freely, but it seems like you do need to take care of yourself and your future, whether that is to be one that involves him or not. There may be more than one way to do that but it seems that any that you've identified that would involve him are not available to you. You need to choose one of the others. Maybe he'll choose to participate in one of those - or maybe not.
posted by TruncatedTiller at 2:16 PM on October 5, 2009
posted by TruncatedTiller at 2:16 PM on October 5, 2009
You've been getting the short end of the stick for so long, you forgot where your spine is. You have one. Find it. Don't marry this guy. You deserve better.
posted by i_love_squirrels at 2:33 PM on October 5, 2009
posted by i_love_squirrels at 2:33 PM on October 5, 2009
If he dates you for FOUR years without proposing then he's just not that into you. Sorry.
posted by Jacqueline at 3:42 PM on October 5, 2009
posted by Jacqueline at 3:42 PM on October 5, 2009
Lots of good advice, but going slightly against the grain: you don't need anyone's advice here. A relationship is not about what a bunch of other people on the internet prioritise and think, it's about what you prioritise and think.
Thus, just because the mefi hivemind is for or against the relationship is somewhat immaterial: are you prepared to accept this situation?
I understand your confusion and frustration - but this is a conversation about your feelings and his feelings that should be happening with your boyfriend. It sounds like he's open to a dialogue at least, and if you guys can't have a serious, open, non-judgemental and non-weepy conversation about your future, then I would worry about its viability.
posted by smoke at 3:49 PM on October 5, 2009
Thus, just because the mefi hivemind is for or against the relationship is somewhat immaterial: are you prepared to accept this situation?
I understand your confusion and frustration - but this is a conversation about your feelings and his feelings that should be happening with your boyfriend. It sounds like he's open to a dialogue at least, and if you guys can't have a serious, open, non-judgemental and non-weepy conversation about your future, then I would worry about its viability.
posted by smoke at 3:49 PM on October 5, 2009
Oh my god, I am so angry for you. How to accept this? With a plane ticket home and a new plan. I moved to the US on a K1 visa to marry my husband with no blinders on as to what it really meant - we love each other sure! But this was a solid gesture and a commitment to improve our lives, remove the misery of a long distance relationship and forge a new life together. Certainly not meaningless.
I don't understand your boyfriend's attitude. How can you deny someone the security of legally staying in the country, and then cry at the idea of them leaving? What does he want you to do? Become an illegal immigrant? He obviously doesn't have a realistic grip on the seriousness of immigration (if you're deported, you're banned from the country), or really care about your future. I'd make this a dealbreaker - marriage or GTFO. You are worth more than this.
posted by saturnine at 4:16 PM on October 5, 2009
I don't understand your boyfriend's attitude. How can you deny someone the security of legally staying in the country, and then cry at the idea of them leaving? What does he want you to do? Become an illegal immigrant? He obviously doesn't have a realistic grip on the seriousness of immigration (if you're deported, you're banned from the country), or really care about your future. I'd make this a dealbreaker - marriage or GTFO. You are worth more than this.
posted by saturnine at 4:16 PM on October 5, 2009
Since you need to go back to school and manage your medical care and he won't marry you to make those things affordable for you, is he willing to contribute financially towards your education and medical care? As someone suggested above, is he willing to move back home with you?
Because, after you made a international move to be with him, if he's not willing to do something significant help make your life with him tenable, than yeah, you need to dump him and go back home.
posted by orange swan at 6:59 PM on October 5, 2009
Because, after you made a international move to be with him, if he's not willing to do something significant help make your life with him tenable, than yeah, you need to dump him and go back home.
posted by orange swan at 6:59 PM on October 5, 2009
follow-up from the OP
Thank you all for your excellent replies. A few people enquired as to the nature of my disability - I intentionally didn't say what it was because I have family that occasionally read Metafilter, that I would prefer not to know of this situation, and they would be an order of magnitude more likely to recognise me if I stated it, as it is somewhat uncommon, especially in someone my age. It is a physical disability and I consider it unlikely to be the reason for his stance - it is not one that would require much if any support from him, as it is pretty much completely "fixed" with the necessary resources, however in this country such are very expensive for non-citizens and in some cases not available at all. So if he was worried about having to cope with my disability, his stance makes even less sense.posted by jessamyn at 7:34 AM on October 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
To kosmonaut: I didn't make the sacrifices I made with any expectation of marriage. We had discussed marriage in the past as something we would eventually do, but my situation re: the disability wasn't as bad when I moved (basically the condition has worsened somewhat in conjunction with the failure of an expensive piece of medical equipment) and that is why I now have a more immediate desire for it.
I think "and now reality is hitting and it's a lot less romantic and a lot more practical" was pretty much right on the money. We had another conversation about it today and that was very much the general gist of what he said. I tend to view marriage as more of a legal/beaurocratic thing than anything else (one can have a great love without marriage, after all), so I think the problem might just be that we have differing perspectives on what marriage means.
Him moving to my country is an option (and not a bad one, either, because my country recognises de facto relationships for citizenship purposes. Yay! I'll admit to a fleeting vengeful desire to refuse to sponsor him, though. Heh, heh.) however probably not immediately - he has what I consider very valid reasons for wishing to remain here for the next year or two. I will probably have to return to my home country by myself for the intervening time, but we've done long distance before and we can hopefully survive it again.
I didn't expect quite so many DTMFA answers, though I know MeFi often skews that way (I guess the problem with relationshipfilter is that you only ever hear one person's thoughts). I'm afraid I can't go from I-love-this-guy-and-want-to-spend-my-life-with-him to DTMFA in sixty seconds, though, so we'll be attempting to work things out!
If I could give best answers as an anony asker, they would have gone to: grapefruitmoon, jessamyn, Brandon Blatcher, and nanojath.
(Also, saturnine, you're unduly worried. I'm in no danger of becoming an illegal immigrant.)
You sound like a lovely person with a really balanced view of things. I understand so much about not being able to go from love to DTMFA in sixty seconds, that's a great way to put it. Thanks for the follow-up. Wishing you the best and also I absolutely think you're doing the right thing by finding the strength to move back to your country. It sounds like you're taking good care of yourself with this decision, and as hard as it will be I hope you will follow through.
posted by hazyjane at 12:55 PM on October 6, 2009
posted by hazyjane at 12:55 PM on October 6, 2009
It sounds like you're doing the right thing in a rough situation. Feel free to MeMail me if you ever want to commiserate on either the disability or the inter-cultural relationships fronts. I've got both going on.
(Yeah, after marrying/divorcing a foreigner, I'm in a LTR with *another* foreigner. Apparently, I'm Euro-sexual.)
posted by grapefruitmoon at 2:01 PM on October 6, 2009
(Yeah, after marrying/divorcing a foreigner, I'm in a LTR with *another* foreigner. Apparently, I'm Euro-sexual.)
posted by grapefruitmoon at 2:01 PM on October 6, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
As do I. I'm a marriage skeptic in a lot of instances, but even from only a cynical convenience perspective (which I don't think is the one you bring to it), marriage now makes a lot of sense. I think he's being a dick and I think you should go ahead and move where you need to move to get the appropriate treatment and career opportunities. He demands "commitment" (ooga booga), financial, emotional, and otherwise from you and won't give it in return. DTMFA.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 8:06 AM on October 5, 2009 [21 favorites]