Why is the chef picking up my steak with his bare hands?
September 17, 2009 11:40 AM Subscribe
What's an acceptable level of prodding and poking (with one's bare hands) and tasting by a chef?
My wife and I recently went to a popular restaurant in a major city where they had seating at a counter overlooking their open kitchen. We thought it would be fun to have dinner and at the same time watch them prepare dishes.
What we observed, however, was the main chef presumably going over the line into ickiness. Examples:
1) Testing the doneness of pork chops by picking them up between his bare fingers and squeezing. When he wasn't doing this he was simply prodding them with his bare fingers while on the skillet.
2) Sauteing potato chunks in a pan and grabbing one with his bare hands to taste. Apparently, they need more seasoning, cuz he then threw in some spices.
3) Using the white cloth he had tucked into his apron to clean of a plated dish prior to serving (to get off stray sauce marks). Problem was he was also wiping down his work surface with the same cloth.
4) Placing a meat thermometer like device into a steak (it was extremely thin and didn't seem to have anything more than a thin handle) and then withdrawing it and placing directly up to his nostrils. After doing that he'd return the device to a bowl with multiple spoons and then he use the same device on the next steak. Frankly, I couldn't see if he was putting this thing up to his nose or in his mouth.
These are just a few of the examples. Paradoxically, being in an "open kitchen" I assumed that things like this would not be seen, but it was that paradox that led us to believe that maybe this was standard chef-ing.
This was no greasy spoon. This restaurant was featured on Iron Chef America within the past month. The owner was a contestant on the show.
Culinary folk...what did we see? a usual day at the office? or a gross violation of public health laws?
My wife and I recently went to a popular restaurant in a major city where they had seating at a counter overlooking their open kitchen. We thought it would be fun to have dinner and at the same time watch them prepare dishes.
What we observed, however, was the main chef presumably going over the line into ickiness. Examples:
1) Testing the doneness of pork chops by picking them up between his bare fingers and squeezing. When he wasn't doing this he was simply prodding them with his bare fingers while on the skillet.
2) Sauteing potato chunks in a pan and grabbing one with his bare hands to taste. Apparently, they need more seasoning, cuz he then threw in some spices.
3) Using the white cloth he had tucked into his apron to clean of a plated dish prior to serving (to get off stray sauce marks). Problem was he was also wiping down his work surface with the same cloth.
4) Placing a meat thermometer like device into a steak (it was extremely thin and didn't seem to have anything more than a thin handle) and then withdrawing it and placing directly up to his nostrils. After doing that he'd return the device to a bowl with multiple spoons and then he use the same device on the next steak. Frankly, I couldn't see if he was putting this thing up to his nose or in his mouth.
These are just a few of the examples. Paradoxically, being in an "open kitchen" I assumed that things like this would not be seen, but it was that paradox that led us to believe that maybe this was standard chef-ing.
This was no greasy spoon. This restaurant was featured on Iron Chef America within the past month. The owner was a contestant on the show.
Culinary folk...what did we see? a usual day at the office? or a gross violation of public health laws?
Data point: I see similar things occurring on Hell's Kitchen, when I happen to watch it, during the segments where they are doing actual dinner service. If it's good enough for reality tee-vee, it's good enough for me!
posted by owtytrof at 11:46 AM on September 17, 2009
posted by owtytrof at 11:46 AM on September 17, 2009
I wouldn't be terribly skeeved out by a chef touching food. Presumably there was some hand washing at some point. Sounds pretty normal to me.
posted by wrok at 11:49 AM on September 17, 2009
posted by wrok at 11:49 AM on September 17, 2009
4) It will also likely bother you that those were probably tasting spoons that the chef and cooks will use throughout the night to taste soups and sauces. If they're really good about it, the spoons will be washed or changed out a few times a night.
Yes it's usual. I personally don't have a problem with it as long as hand washing is required and done often. Hands should at minimum be washed each and every time they touch something that isn't food or food safe, including other parts of the body. Preferably they'll wash their hands and change out towels more often than that.
posted by Science! at 11:50 AM on September 17, 2009
Yes it's usual. I personally don't have a problem with it as long as hand washing is required and done often. Hands should at minimum be washed each and every time they touch something that isn't food or food safe, including other parts of the body. Preferably they'll wash their hands and change out towels more often than that.
posted by Science! at 11:50 AM on September 17, 2009
[ x ] Usual day at the office.
If hands and surfaces are cleaned regularly they are supposed to come into contact with your food while it's being made. If it bothers you, I've heard of this place called Subway where they have to wear rubber gloves?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:51 AM on September 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
If hands and surfaces are cleaned regularly they are supposed to come into contact with your food while it's being made. If it bothers you, I've heard of this place called Subway where they have to wear rubber gloves?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:51 AM on September 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
My thought on (3) is that if the towel is only used to dryly (without a chemical cleaner) wipe off plates and stainless steel surfaces that haven't been exposed to raw meat it's not a big deal. In my experience cleaning up plates before service in such a manner is common.
(4) Sniffing I don't consider that bad, if a little insensitive in an open kitchen. Putting it in his mouth would be a no-no I think. I was watching some Food Network competition show and they crucified one guy for double dipping.
Your food is getting touched with bare hands a lot in restaurant kitchens.
posted by ghharr at 11:55 AM on September 17, 2009
(4) Sniffing I don't consider that bad, if a little insensitive in an open kitchen. Putting it in his mouth would be a no-no I think. I was watching some Food Network competition show and they crucified one guy for double dipping.
Your food is getting touched with bare hands a lot in restaurant kitchens.
posted by ghharr at 11:55 AM on September 17, 2009
If you love food and dining out, my advice to you is to not watch it being prepared. Stuff like this happens all the time (and worse).
posted by LuckySeven~ at 11:55 AM on September 17, 2009
posted by LuckySeven~ at 11:55 AM on September 17, 2009
The guy I'm dating is a professional cook. I've seen him do all these things at home, and he's obsessed with kitchen cleanliness and hygiene.
The testing meat doneness by touch is a fairly common thing, as far as I can tell. I've certainly read about it in a bunch of places.
posted by mollymayhem at 11:59 AM on September 17, 2009
The testing meat doneness by touch is a fairly common thing, as far as I can tell. I've certainly read about it in a bunch of places.
posted by mollymayhem at 11:59 AM on September 17, 2009
Whatever you do, don't read the plongeur section of Down and Out in Paris and London.
OK, fine, I'll quote a bit:
In the kitchen the dirt was worse. It is not a figure of speech, it is a mere statement of fact to say that a French cook will spit in the soup — that is, if he is not going to drink it himself. He is an artist, but his art is not cleanliness. To a certain extent he is even dirty because he is an artist, for food, to look smart, needs dirty treatment. When a steak, for instance, is brought up for the head cook's inspection, he does not handle it with a fork. He picks it up in his fingers and slaps it down, runs his thumb round the dish and licks it to taste the gravy, runs it round and licks again, then steps back and contemplates the piece of meat like an artist judging a picture, then presses it lovingly into place with his fat, pink fingers, every one of which he has licked a hundred times that morning. When he is satisfied, he takes a cloth and wipes his fingerprints from the dish, and hands it to the waiter. And the waiter, of course, dips his fingers into the gravy — his nasty, greasy fingers which he is for ever running through his brilliantined hair. Whenever one pays more than, say, ten francs for a dish of meat in Paris, one may be certain that it has been fingered in this manner. In very cheap restaurants it is different; there, the same trouble is not taken over the food, and it is just forked out of the pan and flung on to a plate, without handling. Roughly speaking, the more one pays for food, the more sweat and spittle one is obliged to eat with it.
I don't think modern kitchens, even the expensive ones, are as bad as that paragraph would suggest, but I'm not surprised that food gets handled a lot in upscale kitchens.
posted by maudlin at 11:59 AM on September 17, 2009 [4 favorites]
OK, fine, I'll quote a bit:
In the kitchen the dirt was worse. It is not a figure of speech, it is a mere statement of fact to say that a French cook will spit in the soup — that is, if he is not going to drink it himself. He is an artist, but his art is not cleanliness. To a certain extent he is even dirty because he is an artist, for food, to look smart, needs dirty treatment. When a steak, for instance, is brought up for the head cook's inspection, he does not handle it with a fork. He picks it up in his fingers and slaps it down, runs his thumb round the dish and licks it to taste the gravy, runs it round and licks again, then steps back and contemplates the piece of meat like an artist judging a picture, then presses it lovingly into place with his fat, pink fingers, every one of which he has licked a hundred times that morning. When he is satisfied, he takes a cloth and wipes his fingerprints from the dish, and hands it to the waiter. And the waiter, of course, dips his fingers into the gravy — his nasty, greasy fingers which he is for ever running through his brilliantined hair. Whenever one pays more than, say, ten francs for a dish of meat in Paris, one may be certain that it has been fingered in this manner. In very cheap restaurants it is different; there, the same trouble is not taken over the food, and it is just forked out of the pan and flung on to a plate, without handling. Roughly speaking, the more one pays for food, the more sweat and spittle one is obliged to eat with it.
I don't think modern kitchens, even the expensive ones, are as bad as that paragraph would suggest, but I'm not surprised that food gets handled a lot in upscale kitchens.
posted by maudlin at 11:59 AM on September 17, 2009 [4 favorites]
If that's the price I have to pay fora properly cooked and seasoned meal, I would gladly pay it.
posted by Midnight Rambler at 12:02 PM on September 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Midnight Rambler at 12:02 PM on September 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
Nthing that it's simply not possible to consistently cook at a high level without touching and tasting virtually everything that leaves your kitchen.
posted by dersins at 12:08 PM on September 17, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by dersins at 12:08 PM on September 17, 2009 [3 favorites]
Hah, that's a good quote maudlin.
My cooking school friend told me the same thing basically, that the fancier the restaurant, the more the food has been handled, so enjoy the skin and spit :p
posted by utsutsu at 12:11 PM on September 17, 2009
My cooking school friend told me the same thing basically, that the fancier the restaurant, the more the food has been handled, so enjoy the skin and spit :p
posted by utsutsu at 12:11 PM on September 17, 2009
Have you ever heard the phrase: That's how the sausage is made? Well you just saw how the sausage is made.
Sticking a probe in your nose seems a bit unusual (as I first read #4), but sniffing and the rest are pretty par for the course. Presumably his hands were washed.
posted by Pollomacho at 12:13 PM on September 17, 2009
Sticking a probe in your nose seems a bit unusual (as I first read #4), but sniffing and the rest are pretty par for the course. Presumably his hands were washed.
posted by Pollomacho at 12:13 PM on September 17, 2009
Good lord, what do you think could possibly be on that man's hands to be that worried about it?
In all seriousness, if you're that easily squicked out you're probably better off staying at home.
And you probably should just make a conscious decision never to think about what they do when they don't have an audience.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:15 PM on September 17, 2009
In all seriousness, if you're that easily squicked out you're probably better off staying at home.
And you probably should just make a conscious decision never to think about what they do when they don't have an audience.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:15 PM on September 17, 2009
What everyone else said. Ever sit at the sushi bar? He's touching my raw fish with his bare hands.
posted by fixedgear at 12:17 PM on September 17, 2009
posted by fixedgear at 12:17 PM on September 17, 2009
This all sounds normal and acceptable to me (with the same caveat as ghharr about the towel).
If the bare hands thing really bugs you, think about this: people who wear gloves when handling food still touch their faces, hair, unsanitary surfaces, etc., and they don't always change their gloves between doing those things and handling food; I've seen this in action. Bare hands encourage more frequent hand-washing in the kitchen spaces I've seen and worked in.
posted by rtha at 12:19 PM on September 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
If the bare hands thing really bugs you, think about this: people who wear gloves when handling food still touch their faces, hair, unsanitary surfaces, etc., and they don't always change their gloves between doing those things and handling food; I've seen this in action. Bare hands encourage more frequent hand-washing in the kitchen spaces I've seen and worked in.
posted by rtha at 12:19 PM on September 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
Actually, I would question the skills of anyone who didn't touch food with bare hands. Bare hands are just about the best tools in the kitchen.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:21 PM on September 17, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:21 PM on September 17, 2009 [4 favorites]
Yea, if a chef touching food is a problem to you, I advise you never eat out again. You can't cook properly without touching and tasting the food you're putting out. Getting meat right is about as important as it gets for a chef, and knowing how what you send out tastes, also is fairly fundamental.
posted by opsin at 12:22 PM on September 17, 2009
posted by opsin at 12:22 PM on September 17, 2009
As far as 3 goes, as well, he either needs to use more cloths, or he has a whole stack of them and he moves through them before what he does with them becomes a problem.
posted by opsin at 12:23 PM on September 17, 2009
posted by opsin at 12:23 PM on September 17, 2009
I don't understand what the problem is. A kitchen is not an operating theater.
posted by hermitosis at 12:23 PM on September 17, 2009
posted by hermitosis at 12:23 PM on September 17, 2009
Wow. You really should never eat anywhere shitty. If you are appalled by the methods employed by literally every fine chef I've ever known, then you would really hate to see what goes on at McDonald's. Sounds like you better cook for yourself from now on.
posted by jefficator at 12:29 PM on September 17, 2009
posted by jefficator at 12:29 PM on September 17, 2009
Response by poster: Thanks all. That's what I thought.
@ghharr--I think I saw the same episode on Food network where they crucified that guy for double dipping ( I think it was an episode of CHOPPED) Having seen that episode was what led to my question. I figured if a celebrity chef was grossed out, then, well, maybe I should be, too.
posted by teg4rvn at 12:29 PM on September 17, 2009
@ghharr--I think I saw the same episode on Food network where they crucified that guy for double dipping ( I think it was an episode of CHOPPED) Having seen that episode was what led to my question. I figured if a celebrity chef was grossed out, then, well, maybe I should be, too.
posted by teg4rvn at 12:29 PM on September 17, 2009
There's a reason that we sear meat at high heat. "Finishing" a chop in a hot pan for a few seconds after testing it tends to immolate whatever microscopic madcap that you may be fearing.
Also remember: we have an immune system for a reason. Yours will, in all likelihood, protect you just fine.
posted by Citrus at 12:50 PM on September 17, 2009
Also remember: we have an immune system for a reason. Yours will, in all likelihood, protect you just fine.
posted by Citrus at 12:50 PM on September 17, 2009
The first thing is completely normal. It's a reliable way to test the doneness of meat (which gets firmer as it cooks) that doesn't involve poking any holes into it.
Noses and lips are pretty sensitive organs.
posted by kenko at 1:07 PM on September 17, 2009
Noses and lips are pretty sensitive organs.
posted by kenko at 1:07 PM on September 17, 2009
4) Placing a meat thermometer like device into a steak (it was extremely thin and didn't seem to have anything more than a thin handle) and then withdrawing it and placing directly up to his nostrils. After doing that he'd return the device to a bowl with multiple spoons and then he use the same device on the next steak. Frankly, I couldn't see if he was putting this thing up to his nose or in his mouth.
I remember reading about this, I think in Heat. You can tell the doneness of a steak very precisely by sticking a kebab skewer into it and then touching it to a temperature-sensitive part of your body, like your cheek.
posted by TungstenChef at 1:08 PM on September 17, 2009
I remember reading about this, I think in Heat. You can tell the doneness of a steak very precisely by sticking a kebab skewer into it and then touching it to a temperature-sensitive part of your body, like your cheek.
posted by TungstenChef at 1:08 PM on September 17, 2009
If a chef doesn't taste what is being prepared, the chef is serving you a crapshoot. I don't like paying money for somebody to guess.
The "line in the sand" is usually bodily fluids. So no double-dipping. No saliva. No sweat. No ass mucus. That sort of thing.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 1:15 PM on September 17, 2009
The "line in the sand" is usually bodily fluids. So no double-dipping. No saliva. No sweat. No ass mucus. That sort of thing.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 1:15 PM on September 17, 2009
For what it's worth, I strongly suspect that they crucify double dipping on CHOPPED because they're looking to milk whatever drama they can find, no matter how small. It's their job to be hyper-critical, and it's not interesting TV if they're not extremely nitpicky. I'm not saying double dipping should happen, but I also know that most chefs wouldn't make a huge deal out of it, unless they were on a competitive game show.
posted by Diagonalize at 1:36 PM on September 17, 2009
posted by Diagonalize at 1:36 PM on September 17, 2009
No saliva.
How else can you tell if the oil is hot enough to deep fry?
posted by tellurian at 9:02 PM on September 17, 2009
How else can you tell if the oil is hot enough to deep fry?
posted by tellurian at 9:02 PM on September 17, 2009
No saliva.
How else can you tell if the oil is hot enough to deep fry?
Oh, dear. I suspect you're kidding. But I'm not.
That is how I tell oil is hot enough to deep fry.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 10:30 PM on September 17, 2009
How else can you tell if the oil is hot enough to deep fry?
Oh, dear. I suspect you're kidding. But I'm not.
That is how I tell oil is hot enough to deep fry.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 10:30 PM on September 17, 2009
Let's just say I've worked in many a commercial kitchen in my time.
posted by tellurian at 10:44 PM on September 17, 2009
posted by tellurian at 10:44 PM on September 17, 2009
Mod note: comments removed - this is getting a little derail-y, maybe dial it back some? thanks.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:06 AM on September 18, 2009
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:06 AM on September 18, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by rokusan at 11:42 AM on September 17, 2009 [2 favorites]