Movie producers keep asking about my article
September 4, 2009 9:04 PM Subscribe
Screenplay question.
OK, so, first of all, I have no illusions about the 1 in a zillion odds of selling a screenplay (especially after reading previous Metafilter threads.) But producers keep sending out feelers to me about a magazine piece I wrote, so I feel like I have to try. I'm not sure how though.
It started with a long article I wrote for about $200. Couple years later, a company that did a Super Bowl ad writes, wants to know if the rights are available. They don't bite, but a few months later, some other Hollywood guy writes. Then someone else...
Like clockwork, these inquiries keep coming. So my friend and I allow our Paul Schrader fantasies to go a little too far. We write (and heavily revise) a screenplay so we can pitch it to the next person who comes calling.
A few producer encounters later, out of nowhere a company representative asks to see the script. After reading it, he likes it enough that he wants to know if we will we be available to meet with his superiors? Once again we get all excited, but then...silence.
My question is: What would you do, real writers? Is there any way to try and parlay this trickle of interest into something? Should I just send a ton of query letters out, and if so, how to get across this situation--that we're not just pitching, like, a Memento ripoff we made up, but a story that seems to hold real interest out there?
Or should we just, as Kool Keith said, give up and "keep your jobs at 7-11?"
OK, so, first of all, I have no illusions about the 1 in a zillion odds of selling a screenplay (especially after reading previous Metafilter threads.) But producers keep sending out feelers to me about a magazine piece I wrote, so I feel like I have to try. I'm not sure how though.
It started with a long article I wrote for about $200. Couple years later, a company that did a Super Bowl ad writes, wants to know if the rights are available. They don't bite, but a few months later, some other Hollywood guy writes. Then someone else...
Like clockwork, these inquiries keep coming. So my friend and I allow our Paul Schrader fantasies to go a little too far. We write (and heavily revise) a screenplay so we can pitch it to the next person who comes calling.
A few producer encounters later, out of nowhere a company representative asks to see the script. After reading it, he likes it enough that he wants to know if we will we be available to meet with his superiors? Once again we get all excited, but then...silence.
My question is: What would you do, real writers? Is there any way to try and parlay this trickle of interest into something? Should I just send a ton of query letters out, and if so, how to get across this situation--that we're not just pitching, like, a Memento ripoff we made up, but a story that seems to hold real interest out there?
Or should we just, as Kool Keith said, give up and "keep your jobs at 7-11?"
In screenwriting school, they told me to get an agent. That it was the difference between waiting tables forever and at least selling an option.
posted by Netzapper at 9:46 PM on September 4, 2009
posted by Netzapper at 9:46 PM on September 4, 2009
You're probably going to want to get an agent if you don't have one. If you do have an agent make them chase down these calls. The WGA has a list of agencies currently accepting non-solicited material. Send out some query letters, mention you've written an article that people are interested in. It's ok to name drop one or two producers if they have good credentials.
Terry Rossio and Ted Elliott have a decent blog with some good advise about being a screenwriter. You could also check out any of William Goldman's wonderful books (expect The Princess Bride) for the inside scoop.
posted by tinatiga at 10:10 PM on September 4, 2009
Terry Rossio and Ted Elliott have a decent blog with some good advise about being a screenwriter. You could also check out any of William Goldman's wonderful books (expect The Princess Bride) for the inside scoop.
posted by tinatiga at 10:10 PM on September 4, 2009
My question is: What would you do, real writers?
Write another screenplay. The odds of anything happening with this particular screenplay are pretty slim. If you're serious about becoming screenwriters, you have to have a second screenplay (at least) to show someone once they've (most likely) passed on your first one. Not having a second one marks you as not being serious about it. If all you want to do is sell this particular story, it's a whole lot harder for you. No worthwhile agent is going to be terribly interested in someone who's only going to generate $10,000 worth of income for their agency over their career.
As far as the failure to return calls, yeah, that's pretty normal. It could be that they're busy, but it's also the uncool person's rejection letter. Many of the producers who contact you about an article or the like are usually hoping for a free option on your story and aren't looking to make you rich. My advice is to not write for free. Writing for free, by the way, is different than writing on spec. When you're writing on your own whims, like you've been doing so far, you're writing on spec. Writing for free is when you're making changes they suggest before they've paid you (or signed you). Don't do it.
If you have more detailed questions, feel free to Mefimail me.
posted by Bookhouse at 10:32 PM on September 4, 2009
Write another screenplay. The odds of anything happening with this particular screenplay are pretty slim. If you're serious about becoming screenwriters, you have to have a second screenplay (at least) to show someone once they've (most likely) passed on your first one. Not having a second one marks you as not being serious about it. If all you want to do is sell this particular story, it's a whole lot harder for you. No worthwhile agent is going to be terribly interested in someone who's only going to generate $10,000 worth of income for their agency over their career.
As far as the failure to return calls, yeah, that's pretty normal. It could be that they're busy, but it's also the uncool person's rejection letter. Many of the producers who contact you about an article or the like are usually hoping for a free option on your story and aren't looking to make you rich. My advice is to not write for free. Writing for free, by the way, is different than writing on spec. When you're writing on your own whims, like you've been doing so far, you're writing on spec. Writing for free is when you're making changes they suggest before they've paid you (or signed you). Don't do it.
If you have more detailed questions, feel free to Mefimail me.
posted by Bookhouse at 10:32 PM on September 4, 2009
First off. I flipped through a short book at Borders the other day that said that listed some practical rules to being creative, and one of them was, as you chase your dream, don't quit your day job. I always equate chasing my dream with telling everyone in my current situation to go fuck themselves.. funny how that works.
Second, query letters? Hands down the worst way to break into the business. Really, a form of entertainment for mailroom staff. A good way to make sure the shredder still works.
Third. Working with a list of agencies that accept unsolicited material? Ok there must be some kind of practical joke going on here. Not that I'm actually going to hunt down this list for you and give you my actual take on it, but if this somehow precludes you from trying to get your shit read by a lit agent at a top-tier agency, then that's just retarded. The idea is not to work around the unsolicited barrier, but to work through it. That barrier, by the way, is there for two very practical reasons. A. 99% of everything ever put on paper is retarded, and B. legal protection. IE you submit your idea to everyone and their mom in town, somebody goes out and makes a movie similar to your idea but has never actually read your shit, and you sue them. Fuck that, nobody wants to deal with that.
Fourth. As an unrepresented, non-union writer, any production company that asked you to write or makes changes to a feature film screenplay "on spec" is essentially trying to fuck you in the ass for free. (Really, you're never going to solve the "fuck you in the ass" part.) BUT. It HAS to be pointed out that in the television world writing on spec is how new writers break. I'm not say anything new here, it's just not clear what kind of screenplay you are developing, and you just don't want to end up telling somebody that's trying to help you to fuck off.
Number five. There is a huge difference between trying to get the article you wrote optioned, and trying to get a screenplay based on that article optioned. You need to respect the fact that the accolades you have received for one thing do not necessarily translate into accolades for the other, and that, if you're worth your salt, this is really where representation steps in. IE somebody that believes in you as a writer, is willing to pitch you as such, and is aware of opportunities that might further your career as one. We're talking about generating "heat" here; when you get ONE important person to get excited about your work, others follow. People are funny that way. That is the kind of door you should be trying to open.
Six. Look outside of the agency box. Now that the agencies are merging and letting everyone and their mom go - and by the way, lit departments have been hit especially hard by this - you should look at literary management as one road to go down. Your odds of success (and of receiving actual support) improve when approaching reps at companies with smaller rosters and that possibly have a production side.
Hope that serves as a primer, or perhaps a kick in the ass in the right direction. I have one or two specific recommendations that might garner you some results so you can mefimail about those if you want.
posted by phaedon at 12:12 AM on September 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Second, query letters? Hands down the worst way to break into the business. Really, a form of entertainment for mailroom staff. A good way to make sure the shredder still works.
Third. Working with a list of agencies that accept unsolicited material? Ok there must be some kind of practical joke going on here. Not that I'm actually going to hunt down this list for you and give you my actual take on it, but if this somehow precludes you from trying to get your shit read by a lit agent at a top-tier agency, then that's just retarded. The idea is not to work around the unsolicited barrier, but to work through it. That barrier, by the way, is there for two very practical reasons. A. 99% of everything ever put on paper is retarded, and B. legal protection. IE you submit your idea to everyone and their mom in town, somebody goes out and makes a movie similar to your idea but has never actually read your shit, and you sue them. Fuck that, nobody wants to deal with that.
Fourth. As an unrepresented, non-union writer, any production company that asked you to write or makes changes to a feature film screenplay "on spec" is essentially trying to fuck you in the ass for free. (Really, you're never going to solve the "fuck you in the ass" part.) BUT. It HAS to be pointed out that in the television world writing on spec is how new writers break. I'm not say anything new here, it's just not clear what kind of screenplay you are developing, and you just don't want to end up telling somebody that's trying to help you to fuck off.
Number five. There is a huge difference between trying to get the article you wrote optioned, and trying to get a screenplay based on that article optioned. You need to respect the fact that the accolades you have received for one thing do not necessarily translate into accolades for the other, and that, if you're worth your salt, this is really where representation steps in. IE somebody that believes in you as a writer, is willing to pitch you as such, and is aware of opportunities that might further your career as one. We're talking about generating "heat" here; when you get ONE important person to get excited about your work, others follow. People are funny that way. That is the kind of door you should be trying to open.
Six. Look outside of the agency box. Now that the agencies are merging and letting everyone and their mom go - and by the way, lit departments have been hit especially hard by this - you should look at literary management as one road to go down. Your odds of success (and of receiving actual support) improve when approaching reps at companies with smaller rosters and that possibly have a production side.
Hope that serves as a primer, or perhaps a kick in the ass in the right direction. I have one or two specific recommendations that might garner you some results so you can mefimail about those if you want.
posted by phaedon at 12:12 AM on September 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
My question is: What would you do, real writers?
Real writers write. So, like Bookman said, KEEP AT IT. Based on the response you've received so far, it sounds like you've got "something" that instantly puts you into a realm beyond the vast majority of hack-wannabes out there, but the screenwriting biz is still brutally competitive. There are millions out there mud-wrestling for a break and even if only 10 percent are actually any good, those are still long odds against you.
For what it's worth, my strategy after years of varying success has been to NOT do anymore spec-screenwriting. That is, I either write stuff that I can see myself someday directing (ie: low budget, low concept) or I get a producer (or a director) interested at the idea stage. This really narrows the odds quite significantly.
posted by philip-random at 12:13 AM on September 5, 2009
Real writers write. So, like Bookman said, KEEP AT IT. Based on the response you've received so far, it sounds like you've got "something" that instantly puts you into a realm beyond the vast majority of hack-wannabes out there, but the screenwriting biz is still brutally competitive. There are millions out there mud-wrestling for a break and even if only 10 percent are actually any good, those are still long odds against you.
For what it's worth, my strategy after years of varying success has been to NOT do anymore spec-screenwriting. That is, I either write stuff that I can see myself someday directing (ie: low budget, low concept) or I get a producer (or a director) interested at the idea stage. This really narrows the odds quite significantly.
posted by philip-random at 12:13 AM on September 5, 2009
Well, different opinion than above. Don't stop at one screenplay. Wrap your mind around the following concept. Just like any freelance commercial artist, you are only as good as your portfolio (portfolio of work). Only a rookie would have one illustration, or one photograph, or one website, or one painting, or one book, when showing their portfolio to prospective clients.
To be taken seriously as a screenwriter you need to flex some creative muscle and have a 'portfolio of screenplays' just like a successful commercial photographer or commercial illustrator has a 'portfolio of photographs' or a 'portfolio of illustrations'. There are successful commercial photographers (make a full time living from photography) and fringe artsy photographers who have no concept of how to succeed commercially. Same with screenwriters. There are professional screenwriters who make a living from screenwriting and there are screenwriters who have plenty of art but no concept of the business end of the animal. You need to be the total package. You need to be harsh in your own assessment as to whether you are that total package. Design, create and write a portfolio of quality screenplays. Quality as defined and purchased by buyers of quality screenplays.
Calculate your relationships effectively. I've always found that you go to the #1 guy and #2 guy in the industry and you get an audience with him/ or her. If your not able to unlock this piece of the puzzle then you are not yet the total package. Figure out why. Unlock it. Why waste your time with less than top tier contacts? It's really that simple. Is your writing good enough or not good enough for the best in the industry? Make a realistic assessment. Are you top tier? Second tier? Third tier talent? That is an important determination you need to make about your own talent. Their are a lot of delusional artists out there. The industry will answer this question for you. Your work and talent will take you to the top or it won't. Talent is what sells. Talent is what everyone is looking for. One excellent screenplay is the promise, the hint, the hope, the whisper of talent. But it is not neccesarily talent. No one gets that excited about a horse that wins one race. Go for the Triple Crown. 3,5,7,11 brilliant screenplays. Now that's talent. Get to work.
The type of agent your work can attract will tell you a lot about your talent too. A good agent will get brilliant concepts to market. And they will lock onto a brilliant product like a laser guided missile. That is a valuable concept. The portfolio concept is a valuable one. I hope it serves you well. Remember that a portfolio is not neccesarily about quantity; it is always about quality. Talent will ALWAYS prevail. Be severe in your assessment of your own abilities. Hone your craft with a vengeance.
posted by Muirwylde at 1:57 AM on September 5, 2009
To be taken seriously as a screenwriter you need to flex some creative muscle and have a 'portfolio of screenplays' just like a successful commercial photographer or commercial illustrator has a 'portfolio of photographs' or a 'portfolio of illustrations'. There are successful commercial photographers (make a full time living from photography) and fringe artsy photographers who have no concept of how to succeed commercially. Same with screenwriters. There are professional screenwriters who make a living from screenwriting and there are screenwriters who have plenty of art but no concept of the business end of the animal. You need to be the total package. You need to be harsh in your own assessment as to whether you are that total package. Design, create and write a portfolio of quality screenplays. Quality as defined and purchased by buyers of quality screenplays.
Calculate your relationships effectively. I've always found that you go to the #1 guy and #2 guy in the industry and you get an audience with him/ or her. If your not able to unlock this piece of the puzzle then you are not yet the total package. Figure out why. Unlock it. Why waste your time with less than top tier contacts? It's really that simple. Is your writing good enough or not good enough for the best in the industry? Make a realistic assessment. Are you top tier? Second tier? Third tier talent? That is an important determination you need to make about your own talent. Their are a lot of delusional artists out there. The industry will answer this question for you. Your work and talent will take you to the top or it won't. Talent is what sells. Talent is what everyone is looking for. One excellent screenplay is the promise, the hint, the hope, the whisper of talent. But it is not neccesarily talent. No one gets that excited about a horse that wins one race. Go for the Triple Crown. 3,5,7,11 brilliant screenplays. Now that's talent. Get to work.
The type of agent your work can attract will tell you a lot about your talent too. A good agent will get brilliant concepts to market. And they will lock onto a brilliant product like a laser guided missile. That is a valuable concept. The portfolio concept is a valuable one. I hope it serves you well. Remember that a portfolio is not neccesarily about quantity; it is always about quality. Talent will ALWAYS prevail. Be severe in your assessment of your own abilities. Hone your craft with a vengeance.
posted by Muirwylde at 1:57 AM on September 5, 2009
You should also think about ditching the screenplay and selling the rights to the article so someone else can write the screenplay. Some of my magazine writer friends have made big bucks this way.
Phaedon, can you explain the difference, for a writer, between an agent and a manager? And how does one get one?
posted by CunningLinguist at 7:18 AM on September 5, 2009
Phaedon, can you explain the difference, for a writer, between an agent and a manager? And how does one get one?
posted by CunningLinguist at 7:18 AM on September 5, 2009
But isn't it true that you can't get an agent unless you've already sold something?
posted by Kirklander at 9:18 AM on September 5, 2009
posted by Kirklander at 9:18 AM on September 5, 2009
can you explain the difference, for a writer, between an agent and a manager? And how does one get one?
Have you seen Entourage? Eric is Vince's manager: he's more day-to-day, he gives him feedback on which projects he should pick. If Vince was a writer, Eric would give Vince notes on his work before it was sent to his agent, who would be the one trying to sell it. While the bottom line is important to managers (and everyone else in the business, because it is a business) they're also more interested in making sure your artistic desires are fulfilled than your agent will be. A manager is more personal. You talk to them more often. If you get a manager before you get an agent, he'll (hopefully) have contacts with the agencies and help you find the right one. My manager went with me to every one of my agency meetings.
Ari is Vince's agent. He sets up business meetings. He handles Vince's contracts. You talk to your agent far less; they'll have more clients than your managers do. When you're not actively looking to sell something (or looking for work in the teevee world), there's not much for your agent to do for you. Your manager is more year-round, although there are times (like staffing season in the teevee world) when you'll talk to them more often.
(Obviously, Entourage isn't a documentary, and things are different for Vince since he is an A-lister and an actor, not a writer).
But isn't it true that you can't get an agent unless you've already sold something?
No. The problem with these "how to get an agent" questions is that there's a lot of different ways, and none of them are foolproof. Some of my friends got their managers or agents by working as assistants in Hollywood and putting their material out to people when they had a chance. Knowing people in the industry helps a lot. If you don't know people, and don't have time to go to grad school at USC or UCLA, the best route is through the respected writing contests. There aren't a lot of them. The Nicholls Fellowship is the best one for screenwriting. (For teevee, the Warner Bros. Writers' Workshop is the best). These are ultra-competitive (last year the WB Workshop had over a thousand applicants and took ten; this year they received over 1300) but the industry takes serious notice of the winners.
As an unrepresented, non-union writer, any production company that asked you to write or makes changes to a feature film screenplay "on spec" is essentially trying to fuck you in the ass for free. (Really, you're never going to solve the "fuck you in the ass" part.) BUT. It HAS to be pointed out that in the television world writing on spec is how new writers break
A "spec script" in teevee is when a writer writes an episode of an existing show that is meant solely as a sample of the writer's ability. It's not meant for production, and therefore doesn't really have much in common with working for a producer "on spec." Again, there's a big difference between writing what you want to write before someone is paying you and making changes for someone who isn't paying you. Don't do the latter.
(Also, the teevee spec script is losing favor in the industry. While the WB Fellowship requires you to write one, many showrunners are more open to reading spec pilots these days. I suspect that they're mostly just tired or reading a dozen Mad Men or 30 Rock scripts every time they're looking for a new writer).
posted by Bookhouse at 10:07 AM on September 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Have you seen Entourage? Eric is Vince's manager: he's more day-to-day, he gives him feedback on which projects he should pick. If Vince was a writer, Eric would give Vince notes on his work before it was sent to his agent, who would be the one trying to sell it. While the bottom line is important to managers (and everyone else in the business, because it is a business) they're also more interested in making sure your artistic desires are fulfilled than your agent will be. A manager is more personal. You talk to them more often. If you get a manager before you get an agent, he'll (hopefully) have contacts with the agencies and help you find the right one. My manager went with me to every one of my agency meetings.
Ari is Vince's agent. He sets up business meetings. He handles Vince's contracts. You talk to your agent far less; they'll have more clients than your managers do. When you're not actively looking to sell something (or looking for work in the teevee world), there's not much for your agent to do for you. Your manager is more year-round, although there are times (like staffing season in the teevee world) when you'll talk to them more often.
(Obviously, Entourage isn't a documentary, and things are different for Vince since he is an A-lister and an actor, not a writer).
But isn't it true that you can't get an agent unless you've already sold something?
No. The problem with these "how to get an agent" questions is that there's a lot of different ways, and none of them are foolproof. Some of my friends got their managers or agents by working as assistants in Hollywood and putting their material out to people when they had a chance. Knowing people in the industry helps a lot. If you don't know people, and don't have time to go to grad school at USC or UCLA, the best route is through the respected writing contests. There aren't a lot of them. The Nicholls Fellowship is the best one for screenwriting. (For teevee, the Warner Bros. Writers' Workshop is the best). These are ultra-competitive (last year the WB Workshop had over a thousand applicants and took ten; this year they received over 1300) but the industry takes serious notice of the winners.
As an unrepresented, non-union writer, any production company that asked you to write or makes changes to a feature film screenplay "on spec" is essentially trying to fuck you in the ass for free. (Really, you're never going to solve the "fuck you in the ass" part.) BUT. It HAS to be pointed out that in the television world writing on spec is how new writers break
A "spec script" in teevee is when a writer writes an episode of an existing show that is meant solely as a sample of the writer's ability. It's not meant for production, and therefore doesn't really have much in common with working for a producer "on spec." Again, there's a big difference between writing what you want to write before someone is paying you and making changes for someone who isn't paying you. Don't do the latter.
(Also, the teevee spec script is losing favor in the industry. While the WB Fellowship requires you to write one, many showrunners are more open to reading spec pilots these days. I suspect that they're mostly just tired or reading a dozen Mad Men or 30 Rock scripts every time they're looking for a new writer).
posted by Bookhouse at 10:07 AM on September 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by katillathehun at 9:17 PM on September 4, 2009