Have to transfer to another university; what program is most like the one I'm transferring in from?

August 14, 2009 3:22 PM

Transferfilter: Have to transfer to another university; will be transferring in as a third-year student. Fellow neurobiology people and other biomedical types on Metafilter, which of these majors ought I declare there?

I'm currently a neurobiology student at Big Research University.

Had to take a year off due to shit grades, which were in turn due to clinical depression. Got treated, and I picked my grades back up at Local Community College to a pretty darn respectable 3.5 (I'm on the Dean's List :D).

Am transferring to University of Virginia, via finishing basic sciences and such at Local Community College and then transferring in to the University of Virginia (they have a nice transfer agreement). When I transfer in to the University of Virginia, I will have completed all my basic sciences and probably all my gen ed requirements.

Question: Which of these programs is better, considering that I will have completed (and have already completed most of by now):

1 year of introductory biology
2 years of chemistry (introductory and organic)
1 year of introductory physics
1 year of calculus

What I want to do in graduate school is study the neurogenetics of intelligence; there are several places to do that, and I know generally where I'm applying for graduate school. What I want to know is which option among the choices below provides for a good foundation to take into the graduate program I enter.

Program 1: University of Virginia's Neuroscience Program within the Psychology Department

Program 2: University of Virginia's Bachelor of Science in Biology (scroll down a bit, I'm not taking any crapass BA; it has to be a Bachelor of Science)

Program 3: University of Virginia's Bachelor of Science in Chemistry, Biochemistry Option (scroll down a lot )

Question anonymous for reasons of, er, identifiability by outside folks, which for certain reasons I want to keep quiet (have notified the mods).

posted by anonymous to Education (13 answers total)

I don't know the answer to this question. I know some things I would do to get the answer.

1. Identify a professor at Virginia who works on something related to what you want to study in grad school. Sign up for this prof's office hours. Ask the prof for advice about majors. If you like the prof, take a class with him or her. Go to office hours again. Ask about research opportunities. You need advice right now, and later you will need recommendations for grad school. Cultivate these relationships.

2. Contact the programs which interest you and ask someone there what you need to study as an undergrad to make you competitive for their program. It may be that the major isn't super important but that you need to have particular classes.

My hunch is that what you major in is less important than how you do, whether you have solid research experience, and what kind of recommendations you can line up. But I don't really know about this, so if I were you I would be seeking out people who do know. And I mean face to face people, because getting your name out there and forming relationships is almost as important as getting the answer to your question.
posted by craichead at 3:30 PM on August 14, 2009

I agree with craichead. The courses you need to get a bachelor's degree are not necessarily the courses grad schools want you to take. Most graduate programs will have available somewhere on their web page an indication of what preparation prospective applicants should have. It may turn out that there are some surprises here (for example, I've known people trying to apply to grad school in economics who didn't realize that the top programs in econ want people to know a good bit of math) and it's better to know now (when you can still take the classes!) than later.

I'm a mathematician, so I really can't help with the specifics.
posted by madcaptenor at 3:48 PM on August 14, 2009

My hunch is that what you major in is less important than how you do, whether you have solid research experience, and what kind of recommendations you can line up.

Yes, this is exactly right. Relevant research experience and glowing letters of recommendation are the way to get into the grad school you want. Major matters much less.

Pick whichever major sounds most interesting to you and will allow you to get good grades without burning yourself out. Then line up a lab to do research in during the year and/or in a summer research experience. (search for REU to find lots of relevant info)
posted by chrisamiller at 3:50 PM on August 14, 2009

I'm not really qualified to answer these questions specifically, but perhaps I can offer some general guidance. I may be incorrect, but I believe you'll improve your chances for grad school admittance to your favorite grad program by showing research experience and having good letters of recommendation. What you need is lab experience, professors who know you, and a publication or two. Whether you choose science major A or science major B might not matter as much, because as long as you have the science foundation, you'll do your real learning inside the grad program. So maybe pick the undergraduate program most likely to supply you with plenty of research opportunities and good mentors.

Another thing: knowledge of both basic statistics and basic computer programming will come in very handy.

And again, I'm not on the inside. This is my outside observation based on a limited number of people. Maybe ask to speak to a graduate student or two at the programs you're interested in. They'll know best how about how you can get your foot in the door. Good luck!

(On preview, maybe I'm not that far off base)
posted by everythings_interrelated at 3:54 PM on August 14, 2009

The classes you have completed are all freshman courses that are required of pretty much all science majors; you are by no means restricted to certain majors because of the studies you have already completed--if neuroscience is what interests you, don't study biochemistry or biology. You'll do a lot better with a major you like in the first place.

When it comes to graduate programs, isn't it a bit early to limit your options? You're only a sophomore now, and future courses or research commitments (try to get involved with research, you only have a few weeks before the school year begins, and you should be contacting potential PIs now) might completely skew your interests in one direction or another.

PS. In the real world, there's practically zero difference between a BA and a BS. Opting for a BA program could theoretically free up more time for research and graduate level electives.
posted by halogen at 3:58 PM on August 14, 2009

Seconding everythings_interrelated: I graduated with a biochemistry major, and a couple of the graduate programs I've been looking at ask for statistics and a (formal, as in coursework) background in computer programing.
posted by halogen at 4:27 PM on August 14, 2009

Also, if your poor grades were indeed due to diagnosed clinical depression, have you looked into having them forgiven? No respectable university will penalize its students for having legitimate medical problems.
posted by halogen at 4:30 PM on August 14, 2009

I would say that you'll have more flexibility as an applicant with respect to different types of neuroscience programs with a degree in Bio than one in Chem or Psych (even with the neurosciences concentration). However, the BA/BS distinction is barely even glanced at by most admissions committees. I wish I had known this, because I definitely did a lot of extra work to get a BS rather than a BA, and I could have better used that time doing research (which, as stated above, is what will really get you into grad school).

Good luck!
posted by solipsophistocracy at 5:12 PM on August 14, 2009

Nthing all above that any of the tracks you suggested will get you into grad school, as long as you also have had regular, extended experience working in a lab, good letters of rec, and good GRE scores. No worries there.

Yes, any of these will serve you well to get admitted into a neuroscience program. But, you have a very specific goal in mind-- neurogenetics of intelligence. So, more than looking at Potential Grad U's program, you should be looking for the labs that do the sort of work you want. In other words, you need to figure out who you want your advisor to be; who is The Neuroscientist you want to work under? Then, apply to his/her program.

THIS is how you decide what track to take now: Once you have made a list of The Neuroscientists that you'd like to have as your advisor, go to their websites, read their papers, etc, to learn the methods that they use. As you well know, neuroscience is a fantastically broad field and the secrets of intelligence could be tackled from any number of directions. Are you drawn to labs that do a lot of neuroanatomy? Cognitive testing? Animal behavior? Computer modeling? Gene sequencing? Whatever type of work that lab is doing, is what you'll be doing. So then take the undergrad courses that will give you the knowledge (or better yet, the hands-on experience) to hit the ground running on your first day in your grad lab.

For what it's worth, my biochem and cell biology classes prepared me the best for my grad work because it was very quantitative and cell-centric. I got my PhD in neuroscience from a Big Research U about, oh, five years ago now. Very difficult, very worth it. Memail me if you want to talk more.
posted by oceanmorning at 5:58 PM on August 14, 2009

(scroll down a bit, I'm not taking any crapass BA; it has to be a Bachelor of Science)

To be perfectly honest, it doesn't really work that way. A BA from a department where a BSc is offered isn't necessarily an easier degree; not only will it allow you more room to take graduate level electives in subfields in which you're interested, it will also give you room to take courses that a grad program might want (i.e. statistics beyond the basic level, a semester or two of programming) that won't necessarily be included in the BSc requirements.
posted by thisjax at 7:39 PM on August 14, 2009

[Also, anon, your identity is obvious to anyone familiar with your posting history. Just saying.]
posted by thisjax at 7:40 PM on August 14, 2009

Oceanmorning's advice is solid. You have a pretty specific target in mind - hitting it, or even coming close, is going to require a careful aim.

My degree is in chemistry, I work in biotech with lots and lots of molecular biologists. They have an annoying habit of saying things that "make baby Friedrich Wohler cry". Antibody binding, for example, is an equilibrium phenomenon that works a lot like a weak acid and it's acidic hydrogen. It shocks me how often people want to treat antibody-antigen complexes like stable covalent compounds, extrapolate from there, and then fail to understand why their observations don't match their expectations.

Don't confuse this with me saying, "declare for chemistry" - like I said, I think Oceanmorning's advice is solid. But there will come a point where it's going to be less about what your diploma says and more about what you know. When you get to that point, the broader your knowledge the happier your will be.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 1:33 AM on August 15, 2009

I was going to advise you against choosing a major that is swarmed with pre-med students but it appears that you've already taken care of the courses where these students are most prevalent.

(for those of you who are premed or med and take offense, my apologies but in my experience premed students are not fun to take classes with. premed students have particular goals (MCATs, GPA) which are quite different than those of people who are interested in a research career.)

I will Nth the suggestion of getting into a research lab in your interest area. If you want to go to grad school this will really help your chances, especially considering your somewhat unusual academic history. Before showing up on someone's doorstep asking for a lab job, remember to spend a bit of time finding out what they do. I know that is pretty obvious but you'd be surprised at the uncustomized form emails that appear on a regular basis.

My training is in molecular biology but I'm now working in a more multidisciplinary lab. I feel that my relatively weaker training in chemistry holds me back. Biology is pretty easy to learn at any time but a good grounding in chemistry or biochemistry will really help you out. Good classes in statistics and computer programming are also helpful. I didn't spend time looking at UVa's offerings in bioinformatics but I suspect that they have some good stuff.

Caveat: you're interested in a particular field now but your interests may change. I'm not doubting your strong interest in the field, just suggesting that you take broadly applicable classes. At one point I was adamant about doing prokaryotic biology and then spent three years doing eukaryotic transcription.
posted by sciencegeek at 5:15 AM on August 15, 2009