Meeting a crazy ex?
July 31, 2009 4:40 PM Subscribe
Should I meet my crazy ex boyfriend, one that was a huge emotional disaster?
It was a (long distance) relationship of one year, full of drama, that ended spectacularly bad (followed with 1 1/2 year of no contact from my side).
He has got serious issues: possibly a narcissistic personality disorder (IANAD but he totally fits it); he is an attention whore, a drama queen; he lied (i.e, forgot to mention) some details about him - at the time we were already together, I discovered the huge pile of emotional baggage: he did leave his wife years ago but never divorced, plus he had a "fading-out" ongoing relationship which he ended on my demand. Generally, he doesn't know how to handle feelings, either his own or someone else's. Apart from the system error, he is a handsome and a clever guy, very successful in his job, we share lots of interests etc.
I definitely had some issues myself, at least given the fact I stayed in all that mess for almost a year. I worked on myself a great deal. However, I haven't had a solid relationship ever since, one which would make me completely forget it. And it's been almost two years.
Recently I opened the channel to him, and I thought to myself that maybe he deserves the chance to meet, discuss everything and close the story, and perhaps start a friendship. I have become truly great friends with two of my exes, but I am not sure can it work with this one. Plus, I am afraid I am still physically attracted to him (yes, I know, darn - but I caught myself considering the possibility of a hookup). My closest friends think meeting him is a bad idea.
I've read a lot of similar MeFi threads and it saved my sanity right after the breakup. What I need now is a practical advice should I meet him - he is coming here soon, so he came up with that idea. And a more general advice in terms of "every human being deserves to be loved" vs. "some people are just crap" concepts.
It was a (long distance) relationship of one year, full of drama, that ended spectacularly bad (followed with 1 1/2 year of no contact from my side).
He has got serious issues: possibly a narcissistic personality disorder (IANAD but he totally fits it); he is an attention whore, a drama queen; he lied (i.e, forgot to mention) some details about him - at the time we were already together, I discovered the huge pile of emotional baggage: he did leave his wife years ago but never divorced, plus he had a "fading-out" ongoing relationship which he ended on my demand. Generally, he doesn't know how to handle feelings, either his own or someone else's. Apart from the system error, he is a handsome and a clever guy, very successful in his job, we share lots of interests etc.
I definitely had some issues myself, at least given the fact I stayed in all that mess for almost a year. I worked on myself a great deal. However, I haven't had a solid relationship ever since, one which would make me completely forget it. And it's been almost two years.
Recently I opened the channel to him, and I thought to myself that maybe he deserves the chance to meet, discuss everything and close the story, and perhaps start a friendship. I have become truly great friends with two of my exes, but I am not sure can it work with this one. Plus, I am afraid I am still physically attracted to him (yes, I know, darn - but I caught myself considering the possibility of a hookup). My closest friends think meeting him is a bad idea.
I've read a lot of similar MeFi threads and it saved my sanity right after the breakup. What I need now is a practical advice should I meet him - he is coming here soon, so he came up with that idea. And a more general advice in terms of "every human being deserves to be loved" vs. "some people are just crap" concepts.
"every human being deserves to be loved"
Sure, I guess. But sometimes the best way to love people is by staying the hell away from them.
Also, you need to love yourself. It was a really shitty, bad situation before. What's changed, besides time to forget how bad it really was?
posted by drjimmy11 at 4:47 PM on July 31, 2009 [7 favorites]
Sure, I guess. But sometimes the best way to love people is by staying the hell away from them.
Also, you need to love yourself. It was a really shitty, bad situation before. What's changed, besides time to forget how bad it really was?
posted by drjimmy11 at 4:47 PM on July 31, 2009 [7 favorites]
You can certainly practice compassion for your ex without having to bring him back into your life, which sounds likely to be damaging to you. If he's really as toxic as you make him out to be, he's not going to be any better as a friend than he was as a boyfriend.
posted by scody at 4:48 PM on July 31, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by scody at 4:48 PM on July 31, 2009 [2 favorites]
Wow, sometimes AskMe questions are so easy: No.
Why would you want to be friends with someone you know is a lying, attention-whore narcissist, even if he is "handsome and clever"?
posted by mullingitover at 4:54 PM on July 31, 2009 [9 favorites]
Why would you want to be friends with someone you know is a lying, attention-whore narcissist, even if he is "handsome and clever"?
posted by mullingitover at 4:54 PM on July 31, 2009 [9 favorites]
What's in it for you? How confident that your time in pursuing this thing will be worth it, and will end in your reward? Also, is there any rush? You should question your motives if you feel at all compelled to revisit this past and bring it into your present.
posted by iamkimiam at 4:55 PM on July 31, 2009
posted by iamkimiam at 4:55 PM on July 31, 2009
I'm going to have to go with "no" on this one. Wait, scratch that. I'm going with "hell no!"
posted by Justinian at 4:56 PM on July 31, 2009
posted by Justinian at 4:56 PM on July 31, 2009
two separate issues here - 1 - meet 2 - be friends with (2.5 shag). So you can do 1 without doing 2, yeah? What do you want out of a meeting really - what feelings re behind the value statements you're making in here?
You can meet and talk about stuff without any predetermined outcome i.e. becoming friends. Good reasons to meet might be to talk and listen. It's good practice to meet sober, daytime and in public, and to have another engagement after your meeting so it's got a natural limit.
Deserves the chance to meet isn't the point - breakups are about incompatibility, not justice. If you want to do work that's beneficial to you with this meeting then do it, and if not then don't. As said upthread you can be compassionate without having to meet.
posted by By The Grace of God at 4:59 PM on July 31, 2009
You can meet and talk about stuff without any predetermined outcome i.e. becoming friends. Good reasons to meet might be to talk and listen. It's good practice to meet sober, daytime and in public, and to have another engagement after your meeting so it's got a natural limit.
Deserves the chance to meet isn't the point - breakups are about incompatibility, not justice. If you want to do work that's beneficial to you with this meeting then do it, and if not then don't. As said upthread you can be compassionate without having to meet.
posted by By The Grace of God at 4:59 PM on July 31, 2009
Generally, he doesn't know how to handle feelings, either his own or someone else's.
Doesn't sound like a great person to be friends with.
I thought to myself that maybe he deserves the chance to meet, discuss everything and close the story, and perhaps start a friendship.
Do you have any reason to think that he wants this? You sound, upon quick read, to maybe be a little lonely and having some "what if" moments and maybe you'd like to snuggle/fuck/whatever someone handosme who knows you. I do not think this will end up any better than you seem to think it will, so I toss my vote in with "No" as well.
posted by jessamyn at 5:00 PM on July 31, 2009 [3 favorites]
Doesn't sound like a great person to be friends with.
I thought to myself that maybe he deserves the chance to meet, discuss everything and close the story, and perhaps start a friendship.
Do you have any reason to think that he wants this? You sound, upon quick read, to maybe be a little lonely and having some "what if" moments and maybe you'd like to snuggle/fuck/whatever someone handosme who knows you. I do not think this will end up any better than you seem to think it will, so I toss my vote in with "No" as well.
posted by jessamyn at 5:00 PM on July 31, 2009 [3 favorites]
(nb: I can think of two narcissists of the top of my head who I am still attracted to (and wisely NOT sleeping with), YEARS later, so don't worry, there is time.)
posted by By The Grace of God at 5:01 PM on July 31, 2009
posted by By The Grace of God at 5:01 PM on July 31, 2009
Should I meet my crazy ex boyfriend, one that was a huge emotional disaster?
No.
I thought to myself that maybe he deserves the chance to meet, discuss everything and close the story,
He doesn't deserve anything. Why are you doing this to yourself? Why are you choosing to reinsert yourself into a dead-end situation with someone you see as, quote, "a narcissistic attention whore drama queen?"
perhaps start a friendship [...] I am afraid I am still physically attracted to him [...]practical advice should I meet him - he is coming here soon, so he came up with that idea.
Seriously? I mean, really? Why are you even asking the question?
Could anything anyone says here make possibly a difference? At all?
You're going to fuck him and start the BS all over again.
Have fun.
posted by aquafortis at 5:04 PM on July 31, 2009 [3 favorites]
No.
I thought to myself that maybe he deserves the chance to meet, discuss everything and close the story,
He doesn't deserve anything. Why are you doing this to yourself? Why are you choosing to reinsert yourself into a dead-end situation with someone you see as, quote, "a narcissistic attention whore drama queen?"
perhaps start a friendship [...] I am afraid I am still physically attracted to him [...]practical advice should I meet him - he is coming here soon, so he came up with that idea.
Seriously? I mean, really? Why are you even asking the question?
Could anything anyone says here make possibly a difference? At all?
You're going to fuck him and start the BS all over again.
Have fun.
posted by aquafortis at 5:04 PM on July 31, 2009 [3 favorites]
"Everyone deserves love" does not equal "everyone deserves your love."
The way your question reads, it sounds like you're hoping for another chance to have a relationship with him, only this one would 'go right'. This is the AA definition of insanity, doing the same thing and expecting different results.
You sound like you're trying to medicate your current loneliness with a past relationship. Always a bad idea.
posted by fatbird at 5:17 PM on July 31, 2009 [3 favorites]
The way your question reads, it sounds like you're hoping for another chance to have a relationship with him, only this one would 'go right'. This is the AA definition of insanity, doing the same thing and expecting different results.
You sound like you're trying to medicate your current loneliness with a past relationship. Always a bad idea.
posted by fatbird at 5:17 PM on July 31, 2009 [3 favorites]
I'll say this as plainly as I can. Question: are you familiar with these Nigerian emails "send us your bank info so we can give you $100,000,000 (ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS!!!!!)"? Yeah? Are you amazed anyone, anywhere, ever falls for it? Doesn't it seem utterly insane to fall for this? OK. Now, they wouldn't be sending them if they didn't get customers who fall for it. And I've talked to such people - no argument on earth will convince them it's a scam. Not all these folks are stupid people, by any means. What they all share however is one thing: enormous, pathological need to believe in the scam. And they are absolute masters in coming up with all sorts of elaborate justifications and ways in which "it is all true". Like alcoholics who are experts at persuading themselves that having a drink is a good idea. From the outside, it looks insane. But to the victims it is all very reasonable.
This is where you come in. You are trapped in some kind of pathological cycle of need. You do not see the utterly transparent wrongness and insanity of your proposed actions. So let me be the voice of the outside observer:
I am telling you in no uncertain terms: do not contact this individual under any circumstances. There are no justifications. None. Not one. Not even a tiny one.
End it.
posted by VikingSword at 5:22 PM on July 31, 2009 [10 favorites]
This is where you come in. You are trapped in some kind of pathological cycle of need. You do not see the utterly transparent wrongness and insanity of your proposed actions. So let me be the voice of the outside observer:
I am telling you in no uncertain terms: do not contact this individual under any circumstances. There are no justifications. None. Not one. Not even a tiny one.
End it.
posted by VikingSword at 5:22 PM on July 31, 2009 [10 favorites]
Many more fish in the sea--at least until we kill them all, or as I called out from the second row at the ballet, much to my spinster aunt's chagrin, "But look! There are all those other beautiful swans right over there!" Not to make light of your desire for "closure" (a least favorite word of mine, I admit), you sound very young (no offense--more power to you), but my advice would be to take a
deep breath, look away from that particular past, and know that the story will close itself later.
It's a big wide world out there. Go swim in it. Good luck.
posted by emhutchinson at 5:22 PM on July 31, 2009 [1 favorite]
deep breath, look away from that particular past, and know that the story will close itself later.
It's a big wide world out there. Go swim in it. Good luck.
posted by emhutchinson at 5:22 PM on July 31, 2009 [1 favorite]
Drama and pain are addictive. If he is as terrible as you make him out to be, he is probably planning on dragging you back into his world to mess with you yet again. Don't give him the chance. I also have a crazy ex that I will not talk to. I purposely threw out all of the contact info I had on him so that I would not talk myself into it in a moment of weakness.
And he doesn't deserve anything. Your relationship is over, so the only duty you have is to yourself.
He is not fixable. There is no such thing as closure. And this will just start yet another cycle of pain.
Admit you're addicted, or at least in recovery, and say no. You're two years drama-free. Make it a lifetime.
posted by anniek at 5:24 PM on July 31, 2009 [2 favorites]
And he doesn't deserve anything. Your relationship is over, so the only duty you have is to yourself.
He is not fixable. There is no such thing as closure. And this will just start yet another cycle of pain.
Admit you're addicted, or at least in recovery, and say no. You're two years drama-free. Make it a lifetime.
posted by anniek at 5:24 PM on July 31, 2009 [2 favorites]
so he came up with that idea
Oh, and I forgot to respond to this: since getting together was his idea, you may feel awkward declining his suggestion. You may even feel like you don't have the right to decline. Well, you most certainly do have the right, and it doesn't have to be awkward. You can simply email "I don't think it would be a good idea to get together [or you can even be more vague: "I'm afraid it won't be possible to get together"]. I hope you enjoy your time back in town." And leave it at that.
Once you do that, be prepared for the likelihood that he will try to bait you into an argument or into compliance, perhaps by wheedling you, charming you, or insulting you -- or, for bonus NPD points, all three! For example, do any of these sound likely to come from him: "Why not, don't you trust me? I'll be good, I promise! *wink*" "Oh, I had no idea your social life was so impressive that you can't make time for me. Have fun with your hot new boyfriend." "Well, I was hoping to have a good time, but now I won't be able to, knowing that all you want to do is punish me." So, if he does pull that sort of stunt, you should A) IGNORE HIM COMPLETELY, and B) rest assured that you continue to be better off without him in your life.
posted by scody at 5:26 PM on July 31, 2009 [3 favorites]
Oh, and I forgot to respond to this: since getting together was his idea, you may feel awkward declining his suggestion. You may even feel like you don't have the right to decline. Well, you most certainly do have the right, and it doesn't have to be awkward. You can simply email "I don't think it would be a good idea to get together [or you can even be more vague: "I'm afraid it won't be possible to get together"]. I hope you enjoy your time back in town." And leave it at that.
Once you do that, be prepared for the likelihood that he will try to bait you into an argument or into compliance, perhaps by wheedling you, charming you, or insulting you -- or, for bonus NPD points, all three! For example, do any of these sound likely to come from him: "Why not, don't you trust me? I'll be good, I promise! *wink*" "Oh, I had no idea your social life was so impressive that you can't make time for me. Have fun with your hot new boyfriend." "Well, I was hoping to have a good time, but now I won't be able to, knowing that all you want to do is punish me." So, if he does pull that sort of stunt, you should A) IGNORE HIM COMPLETELY, and B) rest assured that you continue to be better off without him in your life.
posted by scody at 5:26 PM on July 31, 2009 [3 favorites]
Try this scenario on for size:
He proposed getting together because he's a narcissistic attention whore drama queen.
If you meet with him, it will be drama city, and he's pull you into his dumb orbit again for a short time. You'll think, isn't he funny, isn't this kind of a rush (getting back with this person you're attracted to), he'll flirt, but he'll have problems that he tells you about too, which make you feel like comforting him, which conveniently fits with the rush of flirting again, etc. You won't do anything physical the first time you meet, but afterward you won't be able to stop thinking about him. "What if I made a mistake by breaking it off the first time? Boy, we really have a strong connection. Maybe I should call him while he's still in town" etc. Where will that lead, that's a good place for you?
The way you describe him, he sounds like he is kind of a jerk. It also sounds like it took you some time the first time around to figure out/accept that he is kind of a jerk. You've gotten yourself out of that bad situation - good riddance.
Here is my ironclad rule: Don't date jerks. You already know he's a jerk, so don't re-open this case. Jerks may "deserve" an equal shot at love or whatever, but you're not a social service agency. It's not your job to get him what he "deserves".
It sounds to me like you know that what you really would like is a new, different, good person to date, and like you're thinking "well, if I can't get that, maybe I should settle for re-opening this bad relationship because at least then I had something going on". That's a recipe for hassle and heartache, rather than moving forward and being open to finding the next, good person.
posted by LobsterMitten at 5:27 PM on July 31, 2009 [21 favorites]
He proposed getting together because he's a narcissistic attention whore drama queen.
If you meet with him, it will be drama city, and he's pull you into his dumb orbit again for a short time. You'll think, isn't he funny, isn't this kind of a rush (getting back with this person you're attracted to), he'll flirt, but he'll have problems that he tells you about too, which make you feel like comforting him, which conveniently fits with the rush of flirting again, etc. You won't do anything physical the first time you meet, but afterward you won't be able to stop thinking about him. "What if I made a mistake by breaking it off the first time? Boy, we really have a strong connection. Maybe I should call him while he's still in town" etc. Where will that lead, that's a good place for you?
The way you describe him, he sounds like he is kind of a jerk. It also sounds like it took you some time the first time around to figure out/accept that he is kind of a jerk. You've gotten yourself out of that bad situation - good riddance.
Here is my ironclad rule: Don't date jerks. You already know he's a jerk, so don't re-open this case. Jerks may "deserve" an equal shot at love or whatever, but you're not a social service agency. It's not your job to get him what he "deserves".
It sounds to me like you know that what you really would like is a new, different, good person to date, and like you're thinking "well, if I can't get that, maybe I should settle for re-opening this bad relationship because at least then I had something going on". That's a recipe for hassle and heartache, rather than moving forward and being open to finding the next, good person.
posted by LobsterMitten at 5:27 PM on July 31, 2009 [21 favorites]
please listen to LobsterMitten, Anon -- she is absolutely, 100% correct.
posted by scody at 5:28 PM on July 31, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by scody at 5:28 PM on July 31, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think it's all too easy to think that meeting up with him would be relatively harmless (it's just for closure, we could be friends), but I want you to shake yourself, hard.
Not harmless. More bullshit you'll have to disentangle yourself emotionally from. You'll get the warm fuzzies and then it will likely turn to complete shit because he's a narcissistic, drama queen liar, right?
Be a healthy adult with good boundaries. Start right now, be strong, say no.
posted by Grlnxtdr at 5:29 PM on July 31, 2009 [3 favorites]
Not harmless. More bullshit you'll have to disentangle yourself emotionally from. You'll get the warm fuzzies and then it will likely turn to complete shit because he's a narcissistic, drama queen liar, right?
Be a healthy adult with good boundaries. Start right now, be strong, say no.
posted by Grlnxtdr at 5:29 PM on July 31, 2009 [3 favorites]
Recently I opened the channel to him, and I thought to myself that maybe he deserves the chance to meet.
You sound confused. Since it was you who reopened communication with him, I do think it's on you to follow through with that, now. Otherwise I am not sure what the heck you are doing, here, and I half-expect another AskMe tomorrow: So this ex of mine opened up and wants to talk to me again, but then she changed her mind and won't see me. Is she crazy?
He's in town anyway, fine, so meet him like you would anyone you used to know. Have coffee. You're a grown up, not a wimp, right? If you're really short on self control and worried about ill-adviced hookups, leave your vagina at home, at least metaphorically.
That is, if you don't trust yourself, do it in a public place, and make a "no going anywhere together alone" rule for yourself for that day, just to see what's going on. Then revisit your questions afterward.
Fatbird is also correct, so step carefully.
I am assuming you're a woman, not that the advice varies. But the metaphor does.
posted by rokusan at 5:30 PM on July 31, 2009
You sound confused. Since it was you who reopened communication with him, I do think it's on you to follow through with that, now. Otherwise I am not sure what the heck you are doing, here, and I half-expect another AskMe tomorrow: So this ex of mine opened up and wants to talk to me again, but then she changed her mind and won't see me. Is she crazy?
He's in town anyway, fine, so meet him like you would anyone you used to know. Have coffee. You're a grown up, not a wimp, right? If you're really short on self control and worried about ill-adviced hookups, leave your vagina at home, at least metaphorically.
That is, if you don't trust yourself, do it in a public place, and make a "no going anywhere together alone" rule for yourself for that day, just to see what's going on. Then revisit your questions afterward.
Fatbird is also correct, so step carefully.
I am assuming you're a woman, not that the advice varies. But the metaphor does.
posted by rokusan at 5:30 PM on July 31, 2009
No. There's no good reason on your part to do it and lots of reasons not to. Some part of you still soft spot for this guy, fix that. Remember the worst thing he ever did to you and ask yourself if you want to go through it again.
posted by doctor_negative at 5:37 PM on July 31, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by doctor_negative at 5:37 PM on July 31, 2009 [1 favorite]
No.
You're over-thinking. Just brush him off. No cosmic rule that says it's always a good thing to be friends with ex-partners.
posted by Neofelis at 5:38 PM on July 31, 2009
You're over-thinking. Just brush him off. No cosmic rule that says it's always a good thing to be friends with ex-partners.
posted by Neofelis at 5:38 PM on July 31, 2009
No. We don't have to be friends with any or all of our exes, especially when they are jerks.
posted by Zophi at 5:52 PM on July 31, 2009
posted by Zophi at 5:52 PM on July 31, 2009
I'm tempted to print out LobsterMitten's response and laminate it and carry it in my wallet.
Don't meet him. Let it go. I feel this way a lot (now, really), and the answer is never, "I should give this person who has hurt me/fcked with my emotions, one more chance."
posted by mercredi at 6:09 PM on July 31, 2009 [1 favorite]
Don't meet him. Let it go. I feel this way a lot (now, really), and the answer is never, "I should give this person who has hurt me/fcked with my emotions, one more chance."
posted by mercredi at 6:09 PM on July 31, 2009 [1 favorite]
Wow - I'm going through something remarkably similar right now. All I can say is - the chorus of NOs above are absolutely right. Why re-open that can of worms? Part of me feels a bit guilty for not responding to my ex-girlfriend in any way, but she screwed me up big time, so why invite that kind of stress back into my life?
I can't see anything good coming of meeting your ex, and you know what? It doesn't seem to be much of a shame to not be friends with somone like that.
posted by idiomatika at 6:11 PM on July 31, 2009
I can't see anything good coming of meeting your ex, and you know what? It doesn't seem to be much of a shame to not be friends with somone like that.
posted by idiomatika at 6:11 PM on July 31, 2009
Lobstermitten + Neofelis + EVERYONE ELSE.
Gosh. I know. It is tempting, yes?
Please be advised: Narcissistic and/or Borderline Personalities and/or Emotional Vampires LOVE people like you. Why? Because you subscribe to the tenets of the Social Contract (a belief in the general modes of behavior) when others see these folks for what they are and DTMFA.
Be a discerning adult that knows who requires respect and future care/contact, and who doesn't.
ACT ACCORDINGLY.
posted by jbenben at 6:28 PM on July 31, 2009 [7 favorites]
Gosh. I know. It is tempting, yes?
Please be advised: Narcissistic and/or Borderline Personalities and/or Emotional Vampires LOVE people like you. Why? Because you subscribe to the tenets of the Social Contract (a belief in the general modes of behavior) when others see these folks for what they are and DTMFA.
Be a discerning adult that knows who requires respect and future care/contact, and who doesn't.
ACT ACCORDINGLY.
posted by jbenben at 6:28 PM on July 31, 2009 [7 favorites]
Everybody needs to be loved. Just not necessarily by you. I wouldn't if I were you.
posted by Silvertree at 6:41 PM on July 31, 2009
posted by Silvertree at 6:41 PM on July 31, 2009
Recently I opened the channel to him, and I thought to myself that maybe he deserves the chance to meet, discuss everything and close the story, and perhaps start a friendship.
A noble effort in some respects. Foolish in others.
My closest friends think meeting him is a bad idea.
Bad idea? Sure. Why not? But we're talking about meeting an ex, not buying swamp land. What's the worse that could happen? You sleep with him? Some huge dramatic blow up ensues? You're a more mature person now. If it goes sour, you'll be able to handle it fine. Worse case scenario, you say, "Well, I tried. Please go fuck off."
What I need now is a practical advice should I meet him - he is coming here soon, so he came up with that idea.
Two things:
1.) Don't see this guy unless you absolutely know for sure what you want to come out of it. (i.e. friendship, no hook up.)
2.) Don't beat yourself if it blows up in your face (i.e. you hookup, he's a drama queen.)
Which is say that you should think seriously about #1, but be prepared for #2.
Good luck.
posted by wfrgms at 6:43 PM on July 31, 2009
A noble effort in some respects. Foolish in others.
My closest friends think meeting him is a bad idea.
Bad idea? Sure. Why not? But we're talking about meeting an ex, not buying swamp land. What's the worse that could happen? You sleep with him? Some huge dramatic blow up ensues? You're a more mature person now. If it goes sour, you'll be able to handle it fine. Worse case scenario, you say, "Well, I tried. Please go fuck off."
What I need now is a practical advice should I meet him - he is coming here soon, so he came up with that idea.
Two things:
1.) Don't see this guy unless you absolutely know for sure what you want to come out of it. (i.e. friendship, no hook up.)
2.) Don't beat yourself if it blows up in your face (i.e. you hookup, he's a drama queen.)
Which is say that you should think seriously about #1, but be prepared for #2.
Good luck.
posted by wfrgms at 6:43 PM on July 31, 2009
I definitely had some issues myself, at least given the fact I stayed in all that mess for almost a year.
Seems you already know what you need to do.
Yes, every human being deserves to be loved, but not necessarily by you. Let the narcissist attention whore drama queen find somebody who can deal with those aspects of his personality without taking damage.
posted by flabdablet at 7:03 PM on July 31, 2009 [2 favorites]
Seems you already know what you need to do.
Yes, every human being deserves to be loved, but not necessarily by you. Let the narcissist attention whore drama queen find somebody who can deal with those aspects of his personality without taking damage.
posted by flabdablet at 7:03 PM on July 31, 2009 [2 favorites]
Wow. I dated that guy. In 1991. I can honestly tell you that, 18 years on, the best possible outcome and closure involves loving yourself enough to stay as far away from him and the black hole of his drama as possible. Seriously.
I can tell you that I ran into someone around 2000-2001 who knew him and gave me an update. By that time, the guy was keeping a house in this city and an apartment in another city while commuting back and forth for work, was still screwing with the heads of everyone he knew, and was still as charming and innocent-looking as ever while retaining the narcissistic disorder symptoms that we all know and don't love. Just confirmed for me that I totally did the right thing. That and the fact that I am happily married to a guy who is 180 degrees from Mr Drama and we have a fun, fulfilling life together.
Close that door. Hard.
posted by jeanmari at 7:19 PM on July 31, 2009 [6 favorites]
I can tell you that I ran into someone around 2000-2001 who knew him and gave me an update. By that time, the guy was keeping a house in this city and an apartment in another city while commuting back and forth for work, was still screwing with the heads of everyone he knew, and was still as charming and innocent-looking as ever while retaining the narcissistic disorder symptoms that we all know and don't love. Just confirmed for me that I totally did the right thing. That and the fact that I am happily married to a guy who is 180 degrees from Mr Drama and we have a fun, fulfilling life together.
Close that door. Hard.
posted by jeanmari at 7:19 PM on July 31, 2009 [6 favorites]
It sounds like you are trying to tell us why you don't want to be friends with him, almost as if you think we expect you to be. You already sound like you've made up your mind that you'd rather not.
And it also sounds like you're hoping you'll get closure from this guy. But -- if he really is narcissistic, he simply wouldn't have the presence of mind to CONCEIVE of having made any errors in your relationship, and nothing you say is going to make him suddenly fall to his knees and say "oh, God, I get it! Hallelujiah! I was all wrong!"
Or, maybe you're hoping that he already HAS seen the light himself, and that he has suddenly magically become the guy you hoped he would be before you found out about that flaw. I'm afraid to break it to you that - no, he hasn't.
And he may be a handsome and clever guy, "aside from the system error," but you know what, that sounds like a mighty big system error. Saying "Apart from the system error, he is a handsome and a clever guy, very successful in his job, we share lots of interests etc." sounds like me saying, "well, my car is completely missing its brakes and its engine, but the shocks work great, the paint job is awesome, and MAN does it have a great stereo."
I really get the sense you're looking for closure, but if this guy is as narcissist as you think he is, he won't be capable of giving it to you. And it doesn't sound like you really do want to see him for any other reason, so....wish him well, and don't meet him, and take care of yourself.
And don't worry about the fact that you haven't met anyone really since. I've had some relationships which shook me to my core and I wasn't really capable of anything for a couple years. But that ultimately was good, because when someone did finally come along, I knew I was ready.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:23 PM on July 31, 2009 [4 favorites]
And it also sounds like you're hoping you'll get closure from this guy. But -- if he really is narcissistic, he simply wouldn't have the presence of mind to CONCEIVE of having made any errors in your relationship, and nothing you say is going to make him suddenly fall to his knees and say "oh, God, I get it! Hallelujiah! I was all wrong!"
Or, maybe you're hoping that he already HAS seen the light himself, and that he has suddenly magically become the guy you hoped he would be before you found out about that flaw. I'm afraid to break it to you that - no, he hasn't.
And he may be a handsome and clever guy, "aside from the system error," but you know what, that sounds like a mighty big system error. Saying "Apart from the system error, he is a handsome and a clever guy, very successful in his job, we share lots of interests etc." sounds like me saying, "well, my car is completely missing its brakes and its engine, but the shocks work great, the paint job is awesome, and MAN does it have a great stereo."
I really get the sense you're looking for closure, but if this guy is as narcissist as you think he is, he won't be capable of giving it to you. And it doesn't sound like you really do want to see him for any other reason, so....wish him well, and don't meet him, and take care of yourself.
And don't worry about the fact that you haven't met anyone really since. I've had some relationships which shook me to my core and I wasn't really capable of anything for a couple years. But that ultimately was good, because when someone did finally come along, I knew I was ready.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:23 PM on July 31, 2009 [4 favorites]
I have a feeling that you are the one who needs closure and took the step of contacting him in order to get it.
"I am afraid I am still physically attracted to him (yes, I know, darn - but I caught myself considering the possibility of a hookup)."
This further leads me to believe it's you who isn't over him.
"My closest friends think meeting him is a bad idea."
Your friends are right. Please, don't do this to yourself. No good can come of it.
Best of luck.
posted by 2oh1 at 8:00 PM on July 31, 2009
"I am afraid I am still physically attracted to him (yes, I know, darn - but I caught myself considering the possibility of a hookup)."
This further leads me to believe it's you who isn't over him.
"My closest friends think meeting him is a bad idea."
Your friends are right. Please, don't do this to yourself. No good can come of it.
Best of luck.
posted by 2oh1 at 8:00 PM on July 31, 2009
Been there, done this, 'cept for the trying to make friends part. Meet, close up loose ends and get own with your life. There's six billion people on the planet, there's fucking reason one this person has be your friend.
And a more general advice in terms of "every human being deserves to be loved" vs. "some people are just crap" concepts.
Every human is born, every human dies and somewhere in between every human breathes. That's about all you say about every one of us. Anything else is just you trying to overlay a pattern or meaning that fits your outlook.
Pack up your metaphorical bags and move on.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:11 PM on July 31, 2009
And a more general advice in terms of "every human being deserves to be loved" vs. "some people are just crap" concepts.
Every human is born, every human dies and somewhere in between every human breathes. That's about all you say about every one of us. Anything else is just you trying to overlay a pattern or meaning that fits your outlook.
Pack up your metaphorical bags and move on.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:11 PM on July 31, 2009
Meet, close up loose ends and get own with your life.
I'm a much bigger fan of this -- face it and deal with it -- than most of the advice above.
Hiding from people won't give you closure. Deal with it.
posted by rokusan at 8:26 PM on July 31, 2009
I'm a much bigger fan of this -- face it and deal with it -- than most of the advice above.
Hiding from people won't give you closure. Deal with it.
posted by rokusan at 8:26 PM on July 31, 2009
Speaking as a person who has both loved crazy people and been a crazy person myself (deep depression, searingly low self esteem, anxiety, all mostly in my early 20's), I think there really isn't any point in seeing this guy, unless you want to open up the box of crazy again.
People can sometimes repair themselves as they grow up---people with Borderline Personality disorder can make wonderful progress, Bipolar folks can have a normal life, etc. I wonder how far a person with a narcissistic personality disorder can recover, as often they aren't able to truly empathize with someone. That being said, he's not a diagnosed narcissist, so maybe he has grown up and it would be beneficial to meet him.
But really? I haven't really experienced closure when I've reconnected with crazy ex-boyfriends or people I was crazy in the general direction of. The box of crazy was opened again in all instances.
posted by Issithe at 8:30 PM on July 31, 2009
People can sometimes repair themselves as they grow up---people with Borderline Personality disorder can make wonderful progress, Bipolar folks can have a normal life, etc. I wonder how far a person with a narcissistic personality disorder can recover, as often they aren't able to truly empathize with someone. That being said, he's not a diagnosed narcissist, so maybe he has grown up and it would be beneficial to meet him.
But really? I haven't really experienced closure when I've reconnected with crazy ex-boyfriends or people I was crazy in the general direction of. The box of crazy was opened again in all instances.
posted by Issithe at 8:30 PM on July 31, 2009
I did this about a year and a half ago. We wound up dating all last year and it was a disaster. The upshot is that I got the opportunity to learn that I wasn't the crazy one, which had haunted me from our previous breakup. Sounds like you're already there, so...no.
posted by rhizome at 8:30 PM on July 31, 2009
posted by rhizome at 8:30 PM on July 31, 2009
Hiding from people won't give you closure. Deal with it.
Inviting unhealthy, emotionally manipulative people back into one's life doesn't bring closure, and it isn't dealing with whatever needs to be dealt with. "Moving forward" and "hiding" are not the same thing.
posted by scody at 8:33 PM on July 31, 2009 [9 favorites]
Inviting unhealthy, emotionally manipulative people back into one's life doesn't bring closure, and it isn't dealing with whatever needs to be dealt with. "Moving forward" and "hiding" are not the same thing.
posted by scody at 8:33 PM on July 31, 2009 [9 favorites]
I agree with Scody. In fact, I would state that there are many times in our lives where getting closure is not only possible but far safer by NOT INVOLVING the person who hurt us. For example, survivors of abuse often do not get closure by contacting their abusers, because their abusers have all sorts of justifications and denials at their disposal. The same goes for narcissists. Narcissists have that same sort of emotional Teflon armor -- nothing sticks to them, nothing gets inside.
posted by lleachie at 8:49 PM on July 31, 2009 [6 favorites]
posted by lleachie at 8:49 PM on July 31, 2009 [6 favorites]
As everyone else said, please don't! But if you can't tell yourself "absolutely never" try this effective postponing technique: tell yourself "if I still want to call/see/otherwise contact him a month from now, I'll let myself". Then, in a month, tell yourself the same thing again. And so on.
posted by gubenuj at 9:21 PM on July 31, 2009
posted by gubenuj at 9:21 PM on July 31, 2009
Yeah, one thing I learned in spades is that you won't get closure by meeting up with them if they lie or otherwise bullshit about everything that happened in the past, like lleachie says.
posted by rhizome at 10:08 PM on July 31, 2009
posted by rhizome at 10:08 PM on July 31, 2009
Ask yourself about his motivations for wanting to see you.
From what you've said, barring some profound transformation, can't see how he has your best interests at heart, would be considerate of you and your feelings.
He wants something and he has a formidable track record of not giving a rat's incontinent backside about you.
posted by ambient2 at 1:21 AM on August 1, 2009
From what you've said, barring some profound transformation, can't see how he has your best interests at heart, would be considerate of you and your feelings.
He wants something and he has a formidable track record of not giving a rat's incontinent backside about you.
posted by ambient2 at 1:21 AM on August 1, 2009
He has got serious issues: possibly a narcissistic personality disorder (IANAD but he totally fits it); he is an attention whore, a drama queen; he lied (i.e, forgot to mention) some details about him - at the time we were already together, I discovered the huge pile of emotional baggage: he did leave his wife years ago but never divorced, plus he had a "fading-out" ongoing relationship which he ended on my demand. Generally, he doesn't know how to handle feelings, either his own or someone else's. Apart from the system error, he is a handsome and a clever guy, very successful in his job, we share lots of interests etc.
Okay, I know there are some who'd disagree with this, but I don't think people really change all that much. They mellow, some characteristics fade a bit, some come forward, but the blueprint remains. The things that you're describing up there in the first sentence--that shit does not change, and the things that you list as assets are frankly, a dime a dozen. There are handsome, clever guys everywhere. I would recommend holding out for someone who doesn't also carry the first set of characteristics. I think the guy sounds dangerous emotionally. Not worth it.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 3:10 AM on August 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
Okay, I know there are some who'd disagree with this, but I don't think people really change all that much. They mellow, some characteristics fade a bit, some come forward, but the blueprint remains. The things that you're describing up there in the first sentence--that shit does not change, and the things that you list as assets are frankly, a dime a dozen. There are handsome, clever guys everywhere. I would recommend holding out for someone who doesn't also carry the first set of characteristics. I think the guy sounds dangerous emotionally. Not worth it.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 3:10 AM on August 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
Don't do it.
Several years ago, I was involved long-distance with a guy who had a lot of issues. When we broke up, he made it clear that he was upset I didn't do it "to his face." Since we had friends of friends in common, he knew when I would next be home (and therefore, in the town that he lived in), and wanted to see me at that time to talk about stuff. Long story short, I showed up, he was drunk/high/something, and he picked me up, slammed me against a wall, broke various things and probably would have really hurt me if someone hadn't happened along.
I realize this is an anecdote, but please just take it as a warning. He is probably physically bigger than you and you think that he engages in manipulation (NPD, not quite telling the truth). This is, IMHO, a classic set up to get you into a bad situation. FLEE.
posted by Medieval Maven at 5:18 AM on August 1, 2009
Several years ago, I was involved long-distance with a guy who had a lot of issues. When we broke up, he made it clear that he was upset I didn't do it "to his face." Since we had friends of friends in common, he knew when I would next be home (and therefore, in the town that he lived in), and wanted to see me at that time to talk about stuff. Long story short, I showed up, he was drunk/high/something, and he picked me up, slammed me against a wall, broke various things and probably would have really hurt me if someone hadn't happened along.
I realize this is an anecdote, but please just take it as a warning. He is probably physically bigger than you and you think that he engages in manipulation (NPD, not quite telling the truth). This is, IMHO, a classic set up to get you into a bad situation. FLEE.
posted by Medieval Maven at 5:18 AM on August 1, 2009
Here's a thought. All your besties advised you not to meet him. If you get sucked into the drama again, they'll be the ones forced to listen... again.
If you can't summon up the spine to resist this guy for your own sake, do it for theirs.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:27 AM on August 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
If you can't summon up the spine to resist this guy for your own sake, do it for theirs.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:27 AM on August 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
Mod note: This is a followup from the asker.
Anon here.posted by cortex (staff) at 7:47 AM on August 1, 2009 [3 favorites]
One of the reasons I almost changed my mind was, hearing about his new relationships during those 3 years (at least 2 I know of - but apparently it ended even sooner than our thing), while I have been single - a little devil in my mind said: wow, he is doing so well, women like him so much, then it could have been my fault to not have it worked out, right?
Another thing is, I childishly thought of - oh, only if I could remove (ignore?) the bad parts and enjoy all the ride for the moment!
I think Scody has it, meeting him won't give me closure. He LOVES loose ends - I mean, the guy was not able to close his marriage with the woman he left 10 years ago. Same with some of his old girlfriends: there's always "something he forgot to say".
I got 3 short e-mails from him while writing the last two sentences. Just to give you the picture...
Thank you all so much for your comments. You've been heard. I will not meet him.
I don't know if this will help, but I recently asked myself the same question after an old chaotic boyfriend got in touch with me. I wasn't so much worried about becoming friends with my ex, but I was curious to see him and hear his explanation for his behavior when we were together. The reason I was on the fence about seeing him was I wasn't sure if I'd find myself having feelings for him again. But after - it was SO worth it. I had enough perspective and time away from him so that when I saw him in person, I realized how right all my friends were about him and how much better my life was without him and all his drama.
So good luck, but try and remember to see the big picture when you're with him.
posted by Unred at 9:33 AM on August 1, 2009
So good luck, but try and remember to see the big picture when you're with him.
posted by Unred at 9:33 AM on August 1, 2009
hearing about his new relationships during those 3 years (at least 2 I know of - but apparently it ended even sooner than our thing), while I have been single - a little devil in my mind said: wow, he is doing so well, women like him so much, then it could have been my fault to not have it worked out, right?
Women love him for the first little while, because he's handsome and clever and golly, there's always something dramatic going on, and it feels like the center of the world or a great epic love story. Then they figure out, gradually, that he's just kind of a jerk. I wouldn't be surprised if he has one new woman every year, who then dumps him.
You're so much better off to be rid of him.
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:02 AM on August 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
Women love him for the first little while, because he's handsome and clever and golly, there's always something dramatic going on, and it feels like the center of the world or a great epic love story. Then they figure out, gradually, that he's just kind of a jerk. I wouldn't be surprised if he has one new woman every year, who then dumps him.
You're so much better off to be rid of him.
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:02 AM on August 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
A world of NO.
posted by sarcasticah at 11:02 AM on August 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by sarcasticah at 11:02 AM on August 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
Uh, no.
Every human being deserves to be loved, yes, but not necessarily by you.
posted by paultopia at 1:41 PM on August 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
Every human being deserves to be loved, yes, but not necessarily by you.
posted by paultopia at 1:41 PM on August 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
Inviting unhealthy, emotionally manipulative people back into one's life doesn't bring closure.
She already invited it. She initiated reconnecting with him.
To just drop out after that is cruel and manipulative. She should have followed through rather than run away.
If he had initiated contact, a strong "no" would be more appropriate, but the OP should be responsible for her own actions, here.
posted by rokusan at 6:10 PM on August 1, 2009
She already invited it. She initiated reconnecting with him.
To just drop out after that is cruel and manipulative. She should have followed through rather than run away.
If he had initiated contact, a strong "no" would be more appropriate, but the OP should be responsible for her own actions, here.
posted by rokusan at 6:10 PM on August 1, 2009
Should I meet my crazy ex boyfriend, one that was a huge emotional disaster?
Oh hells no. Who is going to read your description of your ex and suggest you go hang out with this dude?
posted by chunking express at 8:01 AM on August 4, 2009
Oh hells no. Who is going to read your description of your ex and suggest you go hang out with this dude?
posted by chunking express at 8:01 AM on August 4, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by small_ruminant at 4:43 PM on July 31, 2009 [1 favorite]