OKCupid strikes again
July 21, 2009 4:44 PM   Subscribe

Want a female perspective on a dating situation..

Okay..

So recently I was dicking around on OKCupid.com when I get a message saying that someone had rated me 4 or 5 stars. I did the process to figure out who it was, it sends you to a page where it tells you it was one of a few people but it's always the first person they show you. I confirmed it by rating her 4 or 5 stars, which honestly I probably wouldn't have done had it come up randomly.. but that's beside the point.

I message her, saying something along the lines of "Haha, you like me.." and she messages me back, we start IM'ing, and she issues a challenge for me to come over to her place. I should add, it's about 2am at this time.

We meet up, go for a walk in a nearby park because she said I needed to pass her creep test. We chatted pleasantly and I passed. We hung out and watched a movie, she leaned into me slightly so I took it as a cue that it was okay to put my arm around her. She responded by cuddling into me outright. As the credits of the movie (High Fidelity) rolled, she was face deep in my chest and looked up at me. I took the cue and kissed her. We continued kissing for a little while, and she got up saying she wanted to go lay down. I won't go into detail about what happened after that, but it's fairly plain to see.

The next morning I leave and say that I'll call her, thinking "I enjoyed myself, but I hope she doesn't end up liking me more then I like her.." and dreading the possibility of that awkward conversation. I wasn't expecting to hear from her, but planned on calling her after a few days had passed. But not 5 hours later I got a text from her asking what I was doing that night, I said "I suspect I am watching Audition with you". We were supposed to watch Audition the previous night, but she got squeamish at the last second and put something more friendly in. The night goes pretty similar to the previous one. At one point while making out she paused, looks at me and says "I really like you.", to which I smile and kiss her again.

The next morning I leave and go to class again, and again I get a text before class is even out. I said if she isn't doing anything that night that we should hang out, and she invites me out camping at a music festival in the woods with her and a couple of her friends. Now, at this point even though we've only known each other for a couple days I think things are progressing well, we obviously like each other and enjoy each others company, and she has invited me to meet her friends camping. She is saying "I like you", a lot. Our physical relationship is intensely intimate, and not necessarily in a sexual way. A lot of tight cuddling and kissing of hands, face, arms, that sort of romantic stuff. Naked spooning and oral pleasure, but we never actually have intercourse. I am fine with this, I don't feel the need to have sex. I enjoy pleasing her, and the powerfully intimate nature of our touching and cuddling was honestly fulfilling me in a way that sex never even could. Things that are more meaningful emotionally than sexually. And she did get me off once or twice. I wasn't thinking "relationship" or anything exclusive, but I was increasingly not ruling it out. That night we both get really drunk, and she makes out with a female friend of hers. I am nearly blacked out drunk, and this really upsets me. In retrospect, I know that I had no right to be as we had never discussed anything saying anything about not having out own lives and we've only known each other a couple days.. but I am drunk, and a part of me that I am not proud of, the dramatic and needy side, is at its worst when I am drunk. I don't know exactly what happened, but she said she had to run after me and we had a really intense conversation, leaning our foreheads into each other for like 2 hours.

We wake up the next day and continue to hang out. I don't know if you would call this one continuous date, or four separate ones only separated by work and school.. I don't know.. but I go home. She goes out to a bar with some friends and calls me at 1:30am, asking me to come over. I do, etc..

Wake up the next day, and I can tell something is wrong. I tell her she obviously wants to be alone, and go home. I ask her if everything is okay and she says yes she just needed a moment to gather her thoughts. We had spent an awful lot of time together in a very short amount of time and needed some decompression time. I oblige. She calls me later night asking me to come over, I do, etc..

Wake up the next day, and she sits me down and tells me that she likes me, but that she doesn't see a relationship or any sort of exclusivity going on with us. I am taken aback, despite knowing logically that it's only been 4 or 5 days, I felt a number of things from her that pointed towards that being a possibility. Honestly, I didn't even want a relationship necessarily and felt no long term potential, but for some reason her ruling out completely really wrecks me. I tell her I am embarassed, and feel used because our sexual activity had been relatively one-sided and if she knew she didn't intend to have sex with me but guided me to be getting her off just an hour before we had this talk and that was really unfair to me. She got upset at this, understandably so. I leave. Later in the day she texts me "I am laying down and my bed smells like you", I send her a pithy response and continue to do nothing with my evening. Later that night she texts me "I am too drunk." and I say "Well, at least your enjoying yourself", she responds "I shouldn't invite you over." to which I say "But you are?", long story short I don't end up going over there but there is about an hour and a half of her saying she wants me to be there but doesn't want to lead me on, etc.. She doesn't want to hurt me, doesn't want me to hate her, et al.. However, honestly at this point I am past my embarrassment but willing to continue to hang out as non-exclusive friends who keep each other company when they don't want to feel lonely. I don't get liked outright very often, she is the first person to give me this sort of attention in years, and I just want it to continue at any cost. She musn't believe me, or whatever.. because she continues to not see me. I am not asking to see her, I don't initiate the topic even once. She just every night says that she shouldn't invite me over but really wants me, I say that I am a big boy and can handle what she is and is not offering me. And she just says over and over that she wants me there, but will not actually invite me.

You know.. I started writing this intending to ask the question was I wrong to react with embarassment and thinking that a relationship was a possibility? But as I typed out the story, I really don't think I am wrong at all to have thought it possible. Maybe I overreacted to the realization, as I had to suddenly deal with the death of a realm of possibility and I worked out my feelings in a series of texts to her that she probably saw as too intense. So I suppose I am just looking for some female advice, what do you think is going on in her head? She says she likes me but can't be what I want her to be. I tell her she has no idea what I want from her but she apparently has it in her head that I wanted an exclusive relationship because I got upset when she was making out with her girlfriend. I tell her that I was only upset because I was drunk and my emotions were not in check, that they are now and there is no reason why we cannot continue to hang out. She continues to reach me every night saying that she wants to sleep with me, and honestly that's all I want from her.. a warm body to sleep next to because I don't like sleeping alone. And yet, now that it's out that it's all we want from each other it's no longer okay? But it was as long as it was undefined?

I don't know if there is a question anywhere in here, like I said I guess I am just looking for a female perspective about what someone thinks might be going through her head.
posted by mediocre to Human Relations (34 answers total) 5 users marked this as a favorite
 
My pithy two cents? It's just too much all at once. Give her some space.

Also, very few people like needy significant others. Those who do tend to be manipulative. So maybe work on that.
posted by AV at 4:57 PM on July 21, 2009


Try asking her over to your place. Or at least ask her straight out if she wants you to come over or not, or what the reasons are that she "shouldn't" invite you over.. She might just be insecure with being the lead initiator in a relationship and isn't sure if you really want to see her or not. She might be sitting there freaking out, missing you but not wanting to come on too strong, and not knowing what to do about it. She might just need a gentle kick in the butt to get her moving, or for you to initiate sometimes to reassure her.
posted by amethysts at 5:00 PM on July 21, 2009


Here's a male perspective, but from an atypical male.

She enjoys intimacy, and isn't too shy to go out and find it, but wants to get it from someone who isn't working the bars or playing the field or other high-risk behavior, and in a way that minimizes the likelihood of rejection. So, she goes on a dating site. She looks for and finds a nice looking guy, makes sure he's not crazy, and proceeds to spend the next several days getting her intimacy fix. When she gets a sign that the guy might be taking it too seriously, she makes it clear it's not going to happen, but then continues to do what's necessary to continue getting the desired intimacy as long as possible before he catches on that he's being used and walks away.

This isn't particularly complex, or unusual, and men do this to women as much as women do this to men. If you're enjoying it, carry on with the understanding that this is what's going on -- and if you're not enjoying it, move on. Being used for intimacy is quite straightforward, really.

Oh, and you're not crazy for having thought there might be a chance for a relationship. However, now she's made it clear there is no chance. Likely if she alludes that there is a chance, it's to keep getting intimacy from you.
posted by davejay at 5:13 PM on July 21, 2009 [7 favorites]


Sounds to me like she's a drama queen. If you like/are willing to put up with the drama, go for it. If that's not what you want, I would take a step back if I were you. Possibly multiple steps, quickly and in the opposite direction.
posted by easy_being_green at 5:16 PM on July 21, 2009


Well, despite being a tease, she also seems like she's really trying to get YOU to make the moves. Sometimes its hard to get what you want out of guys, and sometimes our "subconscious girl" feels embarrassed about coming on too strong, which she definitely did. If you want to be with her stop letting her control the situation. Of course, be a gentleman if she's actually serious about not going too far...but I'm sure you know that.
posted by Unred at 5:19 PM on July 21, 2009 [1 favorite]


It sounds to me like you're both drama queens. I think you're mad that she ended it first. It's an understandable blow to your ego. Even if you do end up together, it will be an angsty relationship.
posted by runningwithscissors at 5:20 PM on July 21, 2009 [3 favorites]


Nothing kills a woman's romantic interest faster than too much affection/intimacy too fast. There's a reason the tall, dark, and silent stereotype is so enduring. She seems to have acted even more emotionally intense than you, but you certainly weren't unavailable.

However, she seems to still want to have a physical relationship with you. If you can keep your feelings in check and really do just want a "warm body to sleep next to," it looks like you're all set.

Just don't expect her to fall in love with you.
posted by oinopaponton at 5:21 PM on July 21, 2009 [1 favorite]


After reading this twice I cannot understand why she would want to lead you on so...but then I've never been that kind of girl. Either way, she is keeping you on the string for some reason known only to herself and it's unfair. If you want a return to sanity and some peace of mind, tell her to quit contacting you because she's being cruel and then follow easy_being_green's advice. Run away!
posted by chihiro at 5:24 PM on July 21, 2009


Have you seen Audition? It's not exactly what I'd call a date movie, but is strangely apropos here.
posted by Cogito at 5:28 PM on July 21, 2009 [11 favorites]


Another unsolicited male perspective. I was yawning by the time I got to the end of your story. Cut yourself loose from this nonsense, and find a girl who will want to be your girlfriend and want to have sex with you, and not have a problem expressing either desire.
posted by bingo at 5:31 PM on July 21, 2009 [6 favorites]


I mean strong and silent, obviously.
posted by oinopaponton at 5:32 PM on July 21, 2009


My female perspective is that she's nuts and likes to play mind games. You say you haven't had attention like that in years, so it's understandable you don't want to let her go, but... dude, you deserve better. Her behavior isn't healthy, and yours isn't either if you put up with it.
posted by Nattie at 5:56 PM on July 21, 2009


If a woman wants you to watch Audition as a date movie you may be in for a wild ride (and or missing limbs).
posted by benzenedream at 6:01 PM on July 21, 2009


there is about an hour and a half of her saying she wants me to be there but doesn't want to lead me on, etc.. She doesn't want to hurt me, doesn't want me to hate her, et al.

I'm female and haven't done anything like this since high school and even then I'd put out. The crazy thing about getting a little attention/lovin' is that it releases oxytocin into your brain which makes you feel

1. incredible and sort of pair-bonded
2. that you will never feel this way again

The good news is that if one person finds you attractive and fun to snuggle with, someone else will too. This girl sounds a little predatory and strange to me, having some battle with herself that you are collateral damage in. Go hang out with more women, drink less, enjoy yourself. Tell this woman to feel free to call you when she wants to really hang out and not just have you be the audience to her boring soliloquy.
posted by jessamyn at 6:02 PM on July 21, 2009 [20 favorites]


I know she isn't waiting for me to "be the man" as it were. Unless she is really, really good at being coy about it she has made it pretty clear that I am not supposed to take the initiative. She would probably just slam the door in my face if I did. thanks for the insight though. I'd lock this now if I could just to stop the inevitable flood of snark.
posted by mediocre at 6:08 PM on July 21, 2009


I'm with amethysts. It looks like everything has been happening at her place and at her initiation. Try turning that around, invite her over, see what happens. It may be that she felt like her space was too invaded, so the chance to fool around somewhere else might be appealing. Also, continually saying she wants you there but not inviting you is bad form. Next time just tell her she can come over or she can shut up.
posted by brittafilter at 6:13 PM on July 21, 2009 [1 favorite]


I think jessamyn's advice is spot on, but I'd also go with those advising you to invite her over/invite yourself over and see what happens. Real relationships involve give and take. If she's the only one who's allowed to call the tune, you don't have a relationship, you have a booty call. The former can involve the latter, sure, but the latter is not a sufficient condition for the former.

I'm not talking serious, monogamous relationship either. I'm talking just a baseline, "let's treat each other like 1) human beings, and 2) adults" relationship.

I have a sneaking suspicion that this isn't what she wants from you. Which means she will drain the life right out of you, if you let her.

Hey, I could be wrong. But if you take the initiative and she shuts you down, I really don't think I am.
posted by valkyryn at 6:28 PM on July 21, 2009


She is crazy. Sorry.
posted by kathrineg at 6:39 PM on July 21, 2009 [1 favorite]


I don't get liked outright very often, she is the first person to give me this sort of attention in years, and I just want it to continue at any cost.

In the 1,561 words (!) in your question, these are the most telling. This girl sounds immature, insecure, and like a waste of time. It sounds like she wants attention and doesn't necessarily care who from. Lots of people are like that, unfortunately, and you shouldn't date them. Ditch her and maybe stay out of the dating game for a bit until you can build a little more confidence in yourself if you want to avoid this kind of drama in the future.
posted by ludwig_van at 6:46 PM on July 21, 2009 [1 favorite]


Geez, it's really not that complicated. You both actually want the same things, a fuckbuddy. Your ego is just bruised because she told you first and even if that's all you wanted yourself, it stings a bit to discover that the other person just wants sex too, without anything else.

She's already told you she doesn't want a relationship, but she's concerned that you do, initially you came on a bit heavy and that scared her off. You need to have a really frank discussion, tell her you're planning on seeing other people and you hope she does too, but if she's at a loose end sometimes and wants company, feel free to call you, act like it's not that big a deal either way. The next time she calls you and umms and ahhs as before, ASK HER IF SHE'D LIKE YOU TO COME OVER. That's what she wants.

Everyone likes to be chased a little bit, just not full on like before. You both know why she's calling, but just, help her out and ask. If she still umms and ahhs, tell her no problem, no big deal and end the call. That lets her know you're not hanging around like a lovesick puppy and she'll have to make up her mind.

She'll get the message. If you do go over, when you leave, tell her you had a good time, don't make a big deal about it, don't tell her you'll call and don't make immediate plans to catch up with her again, just to make it clear it's not a relationship. The idea is to not be needy, because then she thinks you'll get hurt.
posted by Jubey at 7:04 PM on July 21, 2009


I just want it to continue at any cost.

I am 99% sure she knows with certainty that she has you over an emotional barrel. I doubt you will come out of this unscathed. Sorry. I've been there.

General advice: go on other dates, be less available.

Specific advice: As Jubey said, if she texts you with some weird confusing message, ask her flat-out if she wants you to come over. If she is non-committal say "Okay I understand. I'm leaving my house and I won't have my phone on me. Maybe next time."
posted by cranberrymonger at 9:20 PM on July 21, 2009 [1 favorite]


From this female's perspective, she seems flaky but also not very good at taking care of herself, if I'm reading you right in saying that the very first time she met you (random guy off the internet) she went for a walk alone with you in a park at 2 am. This kind of attitude attracts all sorts of insecurity and drama, and if that's not what you want you should probably move on.
posted by frobozz at 9:53 PM on July 21, 2009


I'm a boy not a girl, but here's what this story reads as to me.

1: WAY TOO FAST. There's one-night-stands, and then there's multiple-days-in-a-row-intense-intimacy. Combining the two is a recipe for disaster.

2: A lot of this depends on your ages. If college-age, this is probably just a "let's casually hook up/fuckbuddies" attempt, which neither of you are apparently quite sure how to handle. If older, she's manipulative or nuts or both and you should flee.

3: I don't get liked outright very often, she is the first person to give me this sort of attention in years, and I just want it to continue at any cost.

NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! This is DOOM!!!!!

Seriously. This is an extremely, extremely, extremely poor stance to have on any sort of interpersonal interaction, romantic/sexual or otherwise. Such extreme neediness and desperation and powerlessness is not only not attractive, for manipulative people it's like wearing a sign on your chest saying "fuck around with me for your own amusement/to satisfy your own hungry psychological demons." If this is the reason you're putting up with this woman, FLEE NOW.

4. A lot of the stuff in your post about who initiates what when reeks of serious overanalyzing. This is a bad idea.

5. She just every night says that she shouldn't invite me over but really wants me, I say that I am a big boy and can handle what she is and is not offering me. And she just says over and over that she wants me there, but will not actually invite me.

This just screams take the initiative to me. Next time this happens, just tell her "I'm coming over." Either she won't turn you away, in which case, no problem. If she does, then you know her real desires and you can move on. In fact, something similar might be an issue with the sex stuff -- it might be good to try being more aggressive (always within the bounds of enthusiastic consent of course) in bed. This item is something that I have problems with too, so I know how difficult it is from the first-personal perspective to realize "this is the time when she's asking me to take the initiative," but trust me, from the third-person perspective it's crystal clear.

Now go forth and nookie. Selah.
posted by paultopia at 12:03 AM on July 22, 2009 [2 favorites]


My god she fucking did it again!

We are messaging each other, she says she wants me over there and I get fed up and say "Look, unless you tell me otherwise I am showing up in 20 minutes."

I get no response, I figure she is playing a game.

I get there, and she doesn't fucking answer her door.

I messaged her back, "Don't dangle the carrot of your company over my head like I am in love with you or couldn't do any better. You will never have the opportunity to disrespect me again." and deleted her number out of my phone, and every messaging ingoing and outgoing we ever exchanged.

Man.. fuck internet dating..
posted by mediocre at 1:22 AM on July 22, 2009 [3 favorites]


I think you've finally done the right thing.

For what it's worth, it's not internet dating that's the problem. It's her. She is the problem, not everyone else on the site. She is the fruitcake who was toying with you. There are lots of other women out there who will treat you kindly and with respect.
posted by Solomon at 3:13 AM on July 22, 2009


It's not just her. OP definitely needs to relax a little bit--it makes him easy to manipulate. Like here is where it all goes wrong-->

Wasn't expecting to hear from her, but planned on calling her after a few days had passed.

Good! Take some time, sort out what you actually want out of that experience...

But not 5 hours later I got a text from her asking what I was doing that night,

Hmm, she likes you! Pretty standard, you are a cool dude. Tell her you're busy but you'd really like to see her on Xday for Z activity and...

I said "I suspect I am watching Audition with you".

Wahwahwat? I thought you weren't even planning to call her for a few days and now you've basically told her-- "I will instantly do whatever you want me to do even before you ask"...

Not hot. From this point on she played you like a tromboon.

Spacing out dates in the beginning of knowing someone is very important, especially if you got naked right away. A lot of guys seem to think this is because you're trying to look important and busy so the woman will be sure you're not an obsessed loser. This is somewhat the case but it is even true when you know she likes you. She needs to earn your trust in the same way.

Don't give up on OKC, you just beat the first level!
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:12 AM on July 22, 2009 [3 favorites]


Agree with those who advise to quit now, which it sounds like you're trying to do by deleting her number and messages, but she can still find a way in, because you are desperate for emotional and physical attention and comfort. I understand that you just want someone to cuddle and sleep with; she's not the girl.

Your first lines -- she issues a challenge for me to come over to her place. I should add, it's about 2am at this time. We meet up, go for a walk in a nearby park because she said I needed to pass her creep test -- were red flags to me, as a woman. So, okay, if it had turned out that you were a creep, or worse, she cleverly set it up so she would be alone with you in the park at 2 a.m. ? What kind of self-destructive behavior is that?

All wrong from the get-go, and you didn't read the signs. No matter how desperate you are -- and she sounds just as needy as you -- find a way to resist the call of that siren. Spend time with friends, don't drink so much, and stop dwelling on this one shark in the sea.
posted by mmw at 5:54 AM on July 22, 2009


How are you doing with your nervous breakdown? I'm not idly bringing up your past to rub your nose in it; I think it's quite relevant here. You were suicidally depressed, almost homeless, and getting off of heroin only six months ago. I say this in the most compassionate way I can - it's possible that your judgment of people and situations is not 100%.

You said in that question:

I stopped drinking a long time ago


Then you say in this question:

I am nearly blacked out drunk

So, apparently you started again. And you have yet another person in your life who gets extremely drunk. Given what you've told us about your history, this seems very unwise. Please, please get yourself back on your feet and remain sober for awhile before delving into the murky waters of romantic/sexual relationships. Trust me, it's hard enough when you're sober.
posted by desjardins at 7:19 AM on July 22, 2009 [3 favorites]


Given that your initial meeting was a not-well-disguised opportunity to fuck a random stranger found by trolling the internet at 2am (possibly while drunk), I for one am flabbergasted that you a) thought this might develop into something resembling a healthy relationship and b) are seemingly obsessed with this woman because she let you near her naughty bits.

I am by no means a prude and have no problems with casual sex between consenting adults, but given the circumstances of your meeting, you really ought to have expected that she might have some weirdness about her. Let this be a lesson. Also, I clicked on your mefi profile and your current twitter status that you've linked to here is:

Now I am back to sleeping alone just hoping she gets drunk and lonely, like a pathetic teenage girl heart skipping when a txt arrives.

Snap out of it man! You may not want a traditional relationship, but at the very least you need a find a girl who wants to fuck you when she's sober and is interested in meeting your physical needs so long as you are meeting hers. Get the fuck out, and don't meet random women at 2am in parks if you can't handle this sort of weirdness.
posted by modernnomad at 8:01 AM on July 22, 2009


Also, from recovering alcoholics and drug addicts I've known - it's extremely common to switch addictions to sex and/or relationships. Again, please hear this with compassion, because I am all too familiar with and empathetic to your situation. The problem is not this woman or this "relationship." The problem is that you still have an addiction - whether it's to heroin, alcohol, sex, or love, it does not matter. It will wreck your life anyway, and honestly it sounds pretty wrecked already. I hope for your sake that you come to see this, and furthermore that you find help in getting sober, not just from substances from but these behaviors that result from poor judgment and desperation.

I wish I could convey how sincere my best wishes are over text, but this is all I got.
posted by desjardins at 8:09 AM on July 22, 2009


You know how almost everything from major religions to isolated indigenous belief systems have an inordinate amount to say about who should sleep with who and when? Magic-sky-man-retribution justifications aside, there is widespread recognition that sex is powerful juju. Here is some science(!) for your perusal, but really, just look around you.

Perhaps you should evaluate your personal policy on how quickly and under what sorts of circumstances you're willing to get physically intimate with someone.
posted by phrontist at 8:33 AM on July 22, 2009


I just want to say that I think what you did this time was awesome. I imagine she's done this to other guys, the game playing, and it's great that you called her on it. Now stick with it and make sure you stay away from her. :)
posted by dithmer at 8:56 AM on July 22, 2009


She sounds a bit wacky, but I think you need to take some responsibly in how this played out. Remember, you were the one decided to move it along so quickly and got super drunk and emotional/needy..not that we all haven't had those moments by accident, but you can't blame a girl for backing off after that.

Thats my experience with younger people on OKC [25 and under] a lot tend to have a bit of social baggage/desperation, and I feel like I probably fell into that group a few years back. Don't worry about this one, there will be others...and next time just chill out and let things progress naturally.
posted by mattsweaters at 11:00 AM on July 22, 2009 [1 favorite]


They don't call it OKCrazy for nothin.
posted by softlord at 7:23 PM on August 2, 2009 [1 favorite]


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