Pittsburgh 69
July 19, 2009 5:50 AM Subscribe
Any one live in Pittsburgh, recognise where two photographs were taken and willing to do some re-photography?
I have a colleague who did a year's exchange in Pittsburgh in 1969 and he just digitised some slides. Two are scenes looking over the city and river and I am fascinated what the same view would look like now.
One I can locate via googlemaps/earth as it shows a named building - the Burrell lab. The other no joy.
Pics are here
I have a colleague who did a year's exchange in Pittsburgh in 1969 and he just digitised some slides. Two are scenes looking over the city and river and I am fascinated what the same view would look like now.
One I can locate via googlemaps/earth as it shows a named building - the Burrell lab. The other no joy.
Pics are here
I agree with octothorpe on the second photo contents, but suspect it was taken from Lawn Street in South Oakland.
The other picture I don't know, except that it doesn't look like that anymore.
posted by meinvt at 6:39 AM on July 19, 2009
The other picture I don't know, except that it doesn't look like that anymore.
posted by meinvt at 6:39 AM on July 19, 2009
Response by poster: The second picture has Burrell Labs in the foreground and I can trace that via google maps to here, so I think you are wrong Octothorpe (but many thanks. ) I will check South Lawn now
posted by A189Nut at 6:43 AM on July 19, 2009
posted by A189Nut at 6:43 AM on July 19, 2009
Response by poster: Sorry, Lawn St seems wrong too - the second pic is clearly taken from a bit above Burrell Labs which is at 2223 5th Ave, looking down. I would guess somewhere like Bentley Drive which is above it?
The first one looks to me like the same side of the river, but further down (or up) as I can see the close together chimneys of what I think are the same steelworks, but google earth reveals no similar buildings - the one in the foreground looks "new" for 1969.
posted by A189Nut at 6:50 AM on July 19, 2009
The first one looks to me like the same side of the river, but further down (or up) as I can see the close together chimneys of what I think are the same steelworks, but google earth reveals no similar buildings - the one in the foreground looks "new" for 1969.
posted by A189Nut at 6:50 AM on July 19, 2009
meinvt: "I agree with octothorpe on the second photo contents, but suspect it was taken from Lawn Street in South Oakland."
I think that I screwed up the maps link, Lawn street was were I was trying to point to.
posted by octothorpe at 6:57 AM on July 19, 2009
I think that I screwed up the maps link, Lawn street was were I was trying to point to.
posted by octothorpe at 6:57 AM on July 19, 2009
Response by poster: Unless there were two Burrell Scientifics, the pic is definitely from above it, but from Streetview, the writing on the wall is identical, so I think it is somewhere higher and behind - like I said, from the map Bentley Drive area looks possible to me. Does that change what the ironworks on the opposite site of the river are?
posted by A189Nut at 7:07 AM on July 19, 2009
posted by A189Nut at 7:07 AM on July 19, 2009
Looking at the first photo, it's definitely a little trickier. I'm thinking it could be from Arlington Heights looking southwest toward Hazelwood across the river and Homestead in the far background - sort of where Arlington Ave. bends around and becomes Devlin St. That would make sense of the river's big bend to the left and the mills down below, and the view from up above. Coincidentally, I was about a minute from this place this morning on my bike. I wish I'd seen this post!
Anyway, I'm not certain about this - I can't really identify the two largish buildings in the photo. It could also be from another place down the Monongahela. If I have a chance to check out my hypothesis later this week, I will.
posted by chinston at 7:31 AM on July 19, 2009
Anyway, I'm not certain about this - I can't really identify the two largish buildings in the photo. It could also be from another place down the Monongahela. If I have a chance to check out my hypothesis later this week, I will.
posted by chinston at 7:31 AM on July 19, 2009
Wherever the photographer was standing for the second pic, it will be the same ironworks. Octothorpe's description of the landmarks is right - Hot Metal Bridge, with the works on the close side turned into a tech park, and the works on the far side turned into an urban mall/housing development.
The second could have been the mill in Homestead, but it may be as far down river as the Duquense works. The hillside in the top left corner of that first photograph makes me think it's not two shots of the same place - the bluff would drop off if it was. It could also be from the other side of the river, or even somewhere on the Ohio...
posted by nckd at 7:49 AM on July 19, 2009
The second could have been the mill in Homestead, but it may be as far down river as the Duquense works. The hillside in the top left corner of that first photograph makes me think it's not two shots of the same place - the bluff would drop off if it was. It could also be from the other side of the river, or even somewhere on the Ohio...
posted by nckd at 7:49 AM on July 19, 2009
I think the first picture is what is now the Waterfront. That's exactly where many of the steel mills were as indicated by the image. Even though it's been replace by a shopping district, there are still some remnants left, like the 7 or 8 chimney stacks you can vaguely see in the distance in the picture you posted. In fact, the chimneys are still standing today.
I think Chinston was on the right track by looking at the bend of the water and that's how I figured out it was the Waterfront.
posted by nikkorizz at 7:59 AM on July 19, 2009
I think Chinston was on the right track by looking at the bend of the water and that's how I figured out it was the Waterfront.
posted by nikkorizz at 7:59 AM on July 19, 2009
Yeah, I'm thinking identifying that first picture is going to take a Pittsburgh old-timer -- probably not a MeFite. I'm a transplant in a neighborhood of transplants, but maybe others have relatives/neighbors who would recognize it.
posted by palliser at 8:05 AM on July 19, 2009
posted by palliser at 8:05 AM on July 19, 2009
Response by poster: Second one - with Burrell Scientific in the foreground - I roughly know is where because Burrell is still there. Exact location pending.
Amazing about the chimenys - will use that as a landmark now.
First one, Arlington Heights sounds good - jetty jutting out on far side of river, check, no bridge in sight, check, works or now empty land, check, trees, check - just odd about those two buildings. Appreciate they may be gone, but can't see anything immediately that replaced them though there is new high school on S Water St there which looks possible.
Thanks all.
posted by A189Nut at 8:14 AM on July 19, 2009
Amazing about the chimenys - will use that as a landmark now.
First one, Arlington Heights sounds good - jetty jutting out on far side of river, check, no bridge in sight, check, works or now empty land, check, trees, check - just odd about those two buildings. Appreciate they may be gone, but can't see anything immediately that replaced them though there is new high school on S Water St there which looks possible.
Thanks all.
posted by A189Nut at 8:14 AM on July 19, 2009
Had a thought, OP -- Were there any slides adjacent to the first one that might help place it? I was thinking if your friend took a day trip down one of the rivers and snapped a few photos, the adjacent photos might help place the one you're interested in.
posted by palliser at 8:15 AM on July 19, 2009
posted by palliser at 8:15 AM on July 19, 2009
I have passed along the question to a local historian... I will let you know if I get an answer
posted by rvrlvr at 8:16 AM on July 19, 2009
posted by rvrlvr at 8:16 AM on July 19, 2009
Response by poster: GOT IT
The chimneys were the key. Tracking from them I am sure it is here in McKeesport.
Here is rough as I couldn't get an address exactly.
The Sixties style building is still there, but the older building appears demolished and the land cleared, but not that long ago. Wonder what it was?
Streetview covers the site but not the Sixties style building which is at the end of Brown Place. A small school? It has a field behind it?
Amazing power of Mefi plus google
posted by A189Nut at 9:16 AM on July 19, 2009
The chimneys were the key. Tracking from them I am sure it is here in McKeesport.
Here is rough as I couldn't get an address exactly.
The Sixties style building is still there, but the older building appears demolished and the land cleared, but not that long ago. Wonder what it was?
Streetview covers the site but not the Sixties style building which is at the end of Brown Place. A small school? It has a field behind it?
Amazing power of Mefi plus google
posted by A189Nut at 9:16 AM on July 19, 2009
Response by poster: NOT GOT IT
That demolition was a shopping mall apparently. Weird that it fitted.
Assuming that the chimneys orient the other way in the photo, then it can only be Arlington Heights
posted by A189Nut at 12:15 PM on July 19, 2009
That demolition was a shopping mall apparently. Weird that it fitted.
Assuming that the chimneys orient the other way in the photo, then it can only be Arlington Heights
posted by A189Nut at 12:15 PM on July 19, 2009
I thought it was McKeesport too, mostly since I grew up in Port Vue.
A few years ago I digitized a bunch of slides that my dad took going back from 1967 through around 1978. His friend used to fly a small plane and so he was able to take a lot of pictures of the area from the air. I'll try to find some similar views and see if I can match one up to the first picture.
posted by jtoth at 4:46 AM on July 20, 2009
A few years ago I digitized a bunch of slides that my dad took going back from 1967 through around 1978. His friend used to fly a small plane and so he was able to take a lot of pictures of the area from the air. I'll try to find some similar views and see if I can match one up to the first picture.
posted by jtoth at 4:46 AM on July 20, 2009
Using the chimneys, I orient the first picture taking location as Memorial Park / Mansion Place in Swissvale facing across to the Waterfront. The fact that the right bank seems to lack a railroad track, plus the orientation of the chimneys on the Waterfront, plus the 60's style building and the "mansion" seem to be sitting on higher ground rather than the river bank proper.
posted by blue_wardrobe at 6:48 PM on July 20, 2009
posted by blue_wardrobe at 6:48 PM on July 20, 2009
I haven't had a chance to look in any detail, but one can get aerial photographs from the 60s (and other timke periods) from the PennPilot site. This may aid in getting a more exact location for the photos.
posted by buttercup at 7:14 PM on July 20, 2009
posted by buttercup at 7:14 PM on July 20, 2009
I have found it.
posted by blue_wardrobe at 7:37 PM on July 20, 2009
posted by blue_wardrobe at 7:37 PM on July 20, 2009
Best answer: The image is reversed left-to-right.
The clue was found in a picture at the site that buttercup mentioned, because the alignment of the sheds on the opposite bank was all wrong. The row of stacks in the distance is not the row still standing in the Waterfront, although the scene itself, mostly is of the Waterfront.
When the picture is flipped left to right, you get a different perspective.
The 1960s building is still standing (see Google Maps). From the lower left of the 1967 aerial picture, it is about 1/8th in, and 1/3rd up, just at the north end of the bridge. If you use your browser zoom, you can just about find the dark brown building too (a bit further to the right).
However, the dark brown building has been replaced by a complex on JHF drive.
posted by blue_wardrobe at 7:49 PM on July 20, 2009
The clue was found in a picture at the site that buttercup mentioned, because the alignment of the sheds on the opposite bank was all wrong. The row of stacks in the distance is not the row still standing in the Waterfront, although the scene itself, mostly is of the Waterfront.
When the picture is flipped left to right, you get a different perspective.
The 1960s building is still standing (see Google Maps). From the lower left of the 1967 aerial picture, it is about 1/8th in, and 1/3rd up, just at the north end of the bridge. If you use your browser zoom, you can just about find the dark brown building too (a bit further to the right).
However, the dark brown building has been replaced by a complex on JHF drive.
posted by blue_wardrobe at 7:49 PM on July 20, 2009
Furthermore, the house whose eaves can be seen at the bottom in amongst the trees can be identified as 74(?) Imogene Road, PA 15217.
It can be seen in street view of Google Maps, and has the same roof structure, etc. to this day.
This means the photo was taken from the Calvary Cemetery.
posted by blue_wardrobe at 8:12 PM on July 20, 2009
It can be seen in street view of Google Maps, and has the same roof structure, etc. to this day.
This means the photo was taken from the Calvary Cemetery.
posted by blue_wardrobe at 8:12 PM on July 20, 2009
OK - a little more digging. The brown building was the Jewish Home and Hospital for the Aged on Old Brown's Hill Road, later renamed the Riverview Center for Jewish Seniors.
Early picture here (see page 113).
More details here.
The current complex is called Weinberg Village.
posted by blue_wardrobe at 8:40 PM on July 20, 2009
Early picture here (see page 113).
More details here.
The current complex is called Weinberg Village.
posted by blue_wardrobe at 8:40 PM on July 20, 2009
Response by poster: So grateful - I am seeing my friend later today and will pass all this on
posted by A189Nut at 3:12 AM on July 21, 2009
posted by A189Nut at 3:12 AM on July 21, 2009
Response by poster: Original link to album now (first post) has two Then and Now images - rudimentary since done from streetview, but very satisfying. If anyone is ever in these parts (Calvary Cemetery and Bentley Drive), better more precise re-photos would be great
posted by A189Nut at 7:40 AM on July 21, 2009
posted by A189Nut at 7:40 AM on July 21, 2009
Wow. blue_wardrobe totally has it. Great work. Also, thanks to buttercup, I learned about that Penn Pilot site.
posted by chinston at 11:17 AM on July 21, 2009
posted by chinston at 11:17 AM on July 21, 2009
I'm in that area occasionally and would totally be willing to stop and re-take the photo, but could someone just post a Google map with one thing on it -- one of those little arrows for where I should actually be, and then, you know, "point camera south-south-east" or whatever direction? I'm terrible with spatial perception, though I do understand that whatever's on my camera screen will be reversed from the original.
I realize this makes me sound like a toddler, but there you go.
posted by palliser at 1:28 PM on July 21, 2009
I realize this makes me sound like a toddler, but there you go.
posted by palliser at 1:28 PM on July 21, 2009
@palliser: check your mefimail.
posted by blue_wardrobe at 5:40 PM on July 21, 2009
posted by blue_wardrobe at 5:40 PM on July 21, 2009
Response by poster: Thank you Palliser.
If anyone can do the Bentley drive one as well.
posted by A189Nut at 10:31 AM on July 22, 2009
If anyone can do the Bentley drive one as well.
posted by A189Nut at 10:31 AM on July 22, 2009
Okay, well, I found the spot pretty easily, thanks to blue_wardrobe's excellent directions, and this is the best photo of the bunch I took. You can see that the Homestead works are now gone, and the area has become a shopping strip, flanked with riverview housing.
The problem is the trees! The detestable trees!
Also, the area where the photo was taken is under construction, so we couldn't get quite to where the original photo was taken. (chinston tried, and this is one he took of me and our two-year-old from where he was, but from there, the trees were even more of an obstruction.)
At least they're deciduous, so it might be worth trying again some sunny day in winter. (Or, as it would be more accurately put here in Pittsburgh, "the sunny day this winter.") I bet it would be quite a bit clearer, too; it's very hazy in summer, as you can see.
posted by palliser at 12:10 PM on August 3, 2009
The problem is the trees! The detestable trees!
Also, the area where the photo was taken is under construction, so we couldn't get quite to where the original photo was taken. (chinston tried, and this is one he took of me and our two-year-old from where he was, but from there, the trees were even more of an obstruction.)
At least they're deciduous, so it might be worth trying again some sunny day in winter. (Or, as it would be more accurately put here in Pittsburgh, "the sunny day this winter.") I bet it would be quite a bit clearer, too; it's very hazy in summer, as you can see.
posted by palliser at 12:10 PM on August 3, 2009
Cool, palliser! A nice denouement to some armchair detective work.
posted by blue_wardrobe at 2:07 PM on August 3, 2009
posted by blue_wardrobe at 2:07 PM on August 3, 2009
Response by poster: Tremendous, many thanks.
He has given me other pictures now and I've added them to the album - a good many I can identify, but #3, 6 and 12 are a challenge. All date from 1969-70. Album is here - loading them now.
posted by A189Nut at 5:41 PM on August 4, 2009
He has given me other pictures now and I've added them to the album - a good many I can identify, but #3, 6 and 12 are a challenge. All date from 1969-70. Album is here - loading them now.
posted by A189Nut at 5:41 PM on August 4, 2009
Wow - these are so fascinating to me as a recent transplant to Pittsburgh. I think I can help with the new ones you mention -
I believe 6 is taken near where Boulevard of the Allies and Forbes Ave. cross over, near Oakland, looking back west toward downtown (around
View%20Larger%20Map">here). I think I spot the faint shadow of the US Steel building in the haze toward the right top of the picture.
It would take a little more time to ID 3 and 12, but I'll see if I can manage. Thanks again for these!
posted by chinston at 7:27 PM on August 4, 2009
I believe 6 is taken near where Boulevard of the Allies and Forbes Ave. cross over, near Oakland, looking back west toward downtown (around
View%20Larger%20Map">here). I think I spot the faint shadow of the US Steel building in the haze toward the right top of the picture.
It would take a little more time to ID 3 and 12, but I'll see if I can manage. Thanks again for these!
posted by chinston at 7:27 PM on August 4, 2009
Wow, some great pictures in there.
Chinston is right about 6, that's all been re-engineered in the last year or so but that's where the ramp from the Boulevard came down onto Forbes. They move the ramp to the other side of Forbes now.
I think that 12 is on the Northside Slopes, maybe Spring Hill? I think that's channel 11's TV tower but I'll have to look more to be sure.
3 is tough, it's on the 100 block of whatever street that is, given the sigh at the far right but what street, I can't figure out. I thought that it might be on Moultrie Street in Uptown but that doesn't work. The background looks like the Southside and that overpass looks like the parkway east but I can't connect the dots.
posted by octothorpe at 10:56 AM on August 5, 2009
Chinston is right about 6, that's all been re-engineered in the last year or so but that's where the ramp from the Boulevard came down onto Forbes. They move the ramp to the other side of Forbes now.
I think that 12 is on the Northside Slopes, maybe Spring Hill? I think that's channel 11's TV tower but I'll have to look more to be sure.
3 is tough, it's on the 100 block of whatever street that is, given the sigh at the far right but what street, I can't figure out. I thought that it might be on Moultrie Street in Uptown but that doesn't work. The background looks like the Southside and that overpass looks like the parkway east but I can't connect the dots.
posted by octothorpe at 10:56 AM on August 5, 2009
I don't know if you know this one or not but 13 is Chestnut Street on the North Side which still has the trolley tracks but alas no trolleys.
posted by octothorpe at 1:47 PM on August 5, 2009
posted by octothorpe at 1:47 PM on August 5, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by octothorpe at 6:22 AM on July 19, 2009