Name change for a minor when contested by father?
July 13, 2009 1:20 PM Subscribe
I want to change my son's middle name. Babydaddy ain't having it.
I'm in the state of Kansas, Douglas county. I have a 2-year-old son whose middle name I wish to change from that of the birth father to that of my recently deceased father. My son's father hasn't been very involved in our son's life and currently sees him for just 1 hour a week by court order. I wish to honor my father by changing my son's middle name to his.
The father refuses to sign the VS211 Paternity Consent Form for Birth Registration and contests the change of name so I submitted a Petition for Change of Name of Minor with my local district court and retained an attorney. We've gone to hearing but the judge stated that she didn't think that the courts had jurisdiction over a middle name change, only surname, and that there was no precedence of a parent contesting a middle name change. My attorney hasn't been able to find precedence either. The Kansas Office of Vital Statistics says that the only way to change my son's name is via signed VS211 or court order. How can I get my son's name changed?
-The current change of name case is in continuance with the date yet to be determined.
-My son's father's name is on the birth certificate.
-My son's father and I were never married but paternity has legally been established.
-A permanent custody schedule has not yet been determined but is pending with a hearing scheduled for next month. The temporary orders give me full legal and residential custody with supervised visitation for the father.
-The judge who is hearing the name change case has ruled that the change of name and custody cases are unrelated and will be ruled upon separately.
Thanks for any guidance offered. Responses will not be considered to be legal advice.
I'm in the state of Kansas, Douglas county. I have a 2-year-old son whose middle name I wish to change from that of the birth father to that of my recently deceased father. My son's father hasn't been very involved in our son's life and currently sees him for just 1 hour a week by court order. I wish to honor my father by changing my son's middle name to his.
The father refuses to sign the VS211 Paternity Consent Form for Birth Registration and contests the change of name so I submitted a Petition for Change of Name of Minor with my local district court and retained an attorney. We've gone to hearing but the judge stated that she didn't think that the courts had jurisdiction over a middle name change, only surname, and that there was no precedence of a parent contesting a middle name change. My attorney hasn't been able to find precedence either. The Kansas Office of Vital Statistics says that the only way to change my son's name is via signed VS211 or court order. How can I get my son's name changed?
-The current change of name case is in continuance with the date yet to be determined.
-My son's father's name is on the birth certificate.
-My son's father and I were never married but paternity has legally been established.
-A permanent custody schedule has not yet been determined but is pending with a hearing scheduled for next month. The temporary orders give me full legal and residential custody with supervised visitation for the father.
-The judge who is hearing the name change case has ruled that the change of name and custody cases are unrelated and will be ruled upon separately.
Thanks for any guidance offered. Responses will not be considered to be legal advice.
Just start using a different middle name. I'm guessing these lawyers are giving you the crazy eye because legally, our middle names have little/no bearing on official documents. So if his middle name is Sam, start using Bill instead.
posted by billysumday at 1:33 PM on July 13, 2009
posted by billysumday at 1:33 PM on July 13, 2009
Also, even though the father only sees his/your son an hour a week, he is still the father and he still has his rights. Apparently, one of his rights is the ability to authorize a name change. You could, I suppose, start a petition to change the laws of your state, but that seems a little intensive for a middle name.
posted by billysumday at 1:35 PM on July 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by billysumday at 1:35 PM on July 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
When you say the father is seeing the child but one hour per week, is that by his choice or by a court ruling?
I ahve found this of some importantance: with the advent of the web, I notice that searching for many people with not unusual names is basically a problem unless there is a distinguishing middle name or initial,which of course cuts down the possibilities of confusion. So do consider this when deciding how to deal with your issue.
posted by Postroad at 1:38 PM on July 13, 2009
I ahve found this of some importantance: with the advent of the web, I notice that searching for many people with not unusual names is basically a problem unless there is a distinguishing middle name or initial,which of course cuts down the possibilities of confusion. So do consider this when deciding how to deal with your issue.
posted by Postroad at 1:38 PM on July 13, 2009
Is this really that important enough to wage a battle over? It's a middle name and thus rarely used.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:40 PM on July 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:40 PM on July 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
My advice would be to let it go. Don't pretend to change the kid's name. That'll only cause legal confusion later on in life. Let your next kid's name honor your dad.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:41 PM on July 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:41 PM on July 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
You might also consider honoring your late father by choosing not to turn your young child into the rope in a tug-of-war between yourself and his own father. Of all the ways to struggle on your boy's behalf, this one is almost certain to do nothing of good for him.
posted by felix betachat at 1:42 PM on July 13, 2009 [72 favorites]
posted by felix betachat at 1:42 PM on July 13, 2009 [72 favorites]
I notice that searching for many people with not unusual names is basically a problem unless there is a distinguishing middle name or initial,
But the distinguishing middle name or initial you find on the web - where a person has left their information to be found by others - is typically not what is printed on a birth certificate in a Kansas courthouse, but rather what they choose to call themselves and the way in which they identify themselves. So, again, you can pretty much pick your middle name. The only place I could potentially see it being a problem is a passport - even though, you could give them your first name, last name, and social security number, and they'd probably just leave your middle name blank. There are some people who simply don't have middle names, and they are legally processed at the state and federal level just like everyone else.
posted by billysumday at 1:42 PM on July 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
But the distinguishing middle name or initial you find on the web - where a person has left their information to be found by others - is typically not what is printed on a birth certificate in a Kansas courthouse, but rather what they choose to call themselves and the way in which they identify themselves. So, again, you can pretty much pick your middle name. The only place I could potentially see it being a problem is a passport - even though, you could give them your first name, last name, and social security number, and they'd probably just leave your middle name blank. There are some people who simply don't have middle names, and they are legally processed at the state and federal level just like everyone else.
posted by billysumday at 1:42 PM on July 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
I can see how having the babydaddy's name be part of your son's name could be a source of annoyance.
Can you add (not remove) a middle name to your son's name legally w/out the babydaddy's approval? If so I'd make it firstname yourfathersname babydaddysname lastname, and simply skip using the babydaddy name.
If you can't add a name w/out the babydaddy's permission, I'd just use the initial, never the full name.
posted by widdershins at 1:49 PM on July 13, 2009
Can you add (not remove) a middle name to your son's name legally w/out the babydaddy's approval? If so I'd make it firstname yourfathersname babydaddysname lastname, and simply skip using the babydaddy name.
If you can't add a name w/out the babydaddy's permission, I'd just use the initial, never the full name.
posted by widdershins at 1:49 PM on July 13, 2009
I second the idea of two middle names, but as someone who goes by their middle name, I beg you not to add your father's name to your son's as his new first name. It'll be a never ending annoyance. Adding a middle name lets your son bear his grandfather's name without insulting his father- so the dad should sign off on it- and without sending a negative message to your kid later on when he's old enough to know about the name change.
posted by questionsandanchors at 2:05 PM on July 13, 2009
posted by questionsandanchors at 2:05 PM on July 13, 2009
Please bring this to the attention of your attorney. He or she has a far better knowledge of this case than any person here. Not only that, but if I were you're attorney, I would be very unhappy about you consulting others on the internet.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:21 PM on July 13, 2009
posted by Ironmouth at 2:21 PM on July 13, 2009
Response by poster: Thank you for the responses so far but just to clarify some things:
Please understand that it is not malice that draws me to change my son's name. Prior to our son's birth, the father actually suggested that we use my father's name as our son's middle name. But because our son has my last name I wanted there to be a name connection between father and son. At this time the father was reluctant but agreed to use his first name as our son's middle name.
Almost 2 years after our son's birth, my father passed away (on Father's Day 2008). My son is the only male descendant of my father and because of that this issue has become quite important to my family. Of my siblings, 2 now use a married name and have no male children and a 3rd sister will not ever have children. I will not have any other children either for medical reasons. Because my son's father had agreed to using my father's middle name in the past I wasn't expecting him to contest it now, but I believe that it is in retaliation for unrelated personal disagreements that resulted from our breakup. I'll state again that my son's father has shown abandonment and neglect toward us (the mother and son) and put our son in such risk that the court has ordered only supervised visitation.
@Widderchins, I'm not able to make any changes to my son's name without the father's agreement. @hal_c_on, even corrections to the birth certificate need to be signed off by both parents.
Any further advice on how to succeed in changing my son's middle name would be appreciated.
posted by mezzanayne at 2:33 PM on July 13, 2009
Please understand that it is not malice that draws me to change my son's name. Prior to our son's birth, the father actually suggested that we use my father's name as our son's middle name. But because our son has my last name I wanted there to be a name connection between father and son. At this time the father was reluctant but agreed to use his first name as our son's middle name.
Almost 2 years after our son's birth, my father passed away (on Father's Day 2008). My son is the only male descendant of my father and because of that this issue has become quite important to my family. Of my siblings, 2 now use a married name and have no male children and a 3rd sister will not ever have children. I will not have any other children either for medical reasons. Because my son's father had agreed to using my father's middle name in the past I wasn't expecting him to contest it now, but I believe that it is in retaliation for unrelated personal disagreements that resulted from our breakup. I'll state again that my son's father has shown abandonment and neglect toward us (the mother and son) and put our son in such risk that the court has ordered only supervised visitation.
@Widderchins, I'm not able to make any changes to my son's name without the father's agreement. @hal_c_on, even corrections to the birth certificate need to be signed off by both parents.
Any further advice on how to succeed in changing my son's middle name would be appreciated.
posted by mezzanayne at 2:33 PM on July 13, 2009
Response by poster: @Ironmouth, I very much respect my attorney but even she has stated that she's unaware of the legal standing of this case and has encouraged me to research on my own.
posted by mezzanayne at 2:35 PM on July 13, 2009
posted by mezzanayne at 2:35 PM on July 13, 2009
Not just your attorney, but the presiding judge! And the Kansas Office of Vital Statistics is telling you exactly how to change your son's middle name - get the sig of the father. Hint, hint - what you want done cannot be done the way you want it done. We are a nation of rights and laws, and the father has his just as you have yours. Perhaps you should have a discussion with your siblings in which you describe why you cannot, at this time, change the name. Conversely, you can say, "hey, great, we changed the name to Fontleroy!" even though you didn't and nobody will ever be the wiser unless they take a look at the birth certificate.
posted by billysumday at 2:40 PM on July 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by billysumday at 2:40 PM on July 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
When your son is of age he can change it himself. You can always add it informally and then when he is old enough-and if he agrees-problem solved.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 2:43 PM on July 13, 2009 [6 favorites]
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 2:43 PM on July 13, 2009 [6 favorites]
If you're willing to be patient, wait 16 years, and have him do it himself.
posted by RikiTikiTavi at 2:47 PM on July 13, 2009
posted by RikiTikiTavi at 2:47 PM on July 13, 2009
Best answer: Please bring this to the attention of your attorney.
It appears the OP already has ("My attorney hasn't been able to find precedence either"). Given that the attorney is stumped - and that this is the sort of case which could easily go unreported in Lexis - I don't think this is an unreasonable thing for the OP to be doing.
And I actually think, as legal questions go, this is a pretty decent one to bring to AskMe. It boils down to, "Have you ever legally changed a child's middle name without the consent of one of the parents, or know of any such case where this has happened?" (In other words, "[Case] Citation Needed!") It's certainly a lot more answerable than, "Will I get sued if I do X?"
Unfortunately, this is not an area I know much about. Last year, though, Eugene Volokh had an interesting piece in Slate rounding up a number of unusual name-change cases. Perhaps there are some leads there.
On preview: billy, the OP indicated that the judge herself may be unsure ("the judge stated that she didn't think that the courts had jurisdiction over a middle name change").
[I am not the OP's attorney.]
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 2:50 PM on July 13, 2009
It appears the OP already has ("My attorney hasn't been able to find precedence either"). Given that the attorney is stumped - and that this is the sort of case which could easily go unreported in Lexis - I don't think this is an unreasonable thing for the OP to be doing.
And I actually think, as legal questions go, this is a pretty decent one to bring to AskMe. It boils down to, "Have you ever legally changed a child's middle name without the consent of one of the parents, or know of any such case where this has happened?" (In other words, "[Case] Citation Needed!") It's certainly a lot more answerable than, "Will I get sued if I do X?"
Unfortunately, this is not an area I know much about. Last year, though, Eugene Volokh had an interesting piece in Slate rounding up a number of unusual name-change cases. Perhaps there are some leads there.
On preview: billy, the OP indicated that the judge herself may be unsure ("the judge stated that she didn't think that the courts had jurisdiction over a middle name change").
[I am not the OP's attorney.]
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 2:50 PM on July 13, 2009
Do you have anything (small) to bargain with? He signs off on the name thing, you do X.
posted by ishotjr at 3:08 PM on July 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by ishotjr at 3:08 PM on July 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
If the courts can't do anything, and the father is unwilling to sign anything saying you're allowed to have the name (as crazy as that is), then you really only have 3 options.
1 - Find some way to convince the father to sign onto the idea. Bribery can work wonders. Get the child support lowered, visitation hours upped (as long as there are no safety issue to worry about), something to where he can win.
You don't say why he only visits 1 hour a week, although I'm assuming that since you said "by court order" that route might not be the best way to go.
Please note that I didn't say to trick him. We don't need you thinking he's signing one piece of paper when he's actually signing another (can't find video at the moment).
2 - Wait and have the kid change it when he's legally allowed to by himself. That's already been discussed above so I won't elaborate.
3 - Have you and your family deal with it until the kid has a family of his own. Hopefully your family can understand that it's a little late to go in and change the kid's name without any problems.
posted by theichibun at 3:17 PM on July 13, 2009
1 - Find some way to convince the father to sign onto the idea. Bribery can work wonders. Get the child support lowered, visitation hours upped (as long as there are no safety issue to worry about), something to where he can win.
You don't say why he only visits 1 hour a week, although I'm assuming that since you said "by court order" that route might not be the best way to go.
Please note that I didn't say to trick him. We don't need you thinking he's signing one piece of paper when he's actually signing another (can't find video at the moment).
2 - Wait and have the kid change it when he's legally allowed to by himself. That's already been discussed above so I won't elaborate.
3 - Have you and your family deal with it until the kid has a family of his own. Hopefully your family can understand that it's a little late to go in and change the kid's name without any problems.
posted by theichibun at 3:17 PM on July 13, 2009
"The only place I could potentially see it being a problem is a passport - even though, you could give them your first name, last name, and social security number, and they'd probably just leave your middle name blank..."
I disliked my given plain-vanilla middle name so I "changed" it to a family name in my early 20s. Essentially I just started using it on all forms *including my passport*. I think the only thing that has my original middle name is my driver's license and social security card.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 3:29 PM on July 13, 2009
I disliked my given plain-vanilla middle name so I "changed" it to a family name in my early 20s. Essentially I just started using it on all forms *including my passport*. I think the only thing that has my original middle name is my driver's license and social security card.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 3:29 PM on July 13, 2009
I am not a lawyer, and I'm not offering legal advice, so this is just a suggestion for further exploration. It is my understanding that a person is allowed to use any name they wish, as long as they do it consistently (and not with intent to defraud). Many people just don't bother to go to a court, but have all their documents (except for the birth certificate, obviously) in their new name (this is especially common for women who take their husband's name, without going through any formal legal process of name change). So, as your son is going through life, for any new documents, just put in the name you wish - that way you are not changing any old documents, and not involving the legal process. For some documents, there may be a line "have you used any other name", and then you must provide the original name, but that's rare. Eventually, when he reaches 18, he can legally amend his birth certificate to reflect the name he's grown up with and is familiar with (thanks to you), and the process is complete. There may be some particular states where there would be a complication with this plan, but I don't think this contravenes any federal laws. Again however - I'm not a lawyer, and I may well be 100% wrong, but bring up this idea with your attorney and see if they think it may have traction.
posted by VikingSword at 3:29 PM on July 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by VikingSword at 3:29 PM on July 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
Honor your father in some other way. You don't really want the boy finding out later on that you made this switch -- and he will find out. He and his father will have a hard time believing that your primary reason was to remove the father's name, no matter how sincere you are about it.
posted by wryly at 3:33 PM on July 13, 2009
posted by wryly at 3:33 PM on July 13, 2009
With all that is going on between you and the Baby's father, this seems like the WORST possible time to change your son's name.
Your family should know how difficult this whole situation is for you. Why not just reassure them that later, when your son is old enough, you will explain the situation to him about your father's name and how important it is to you and other family members, and until them you do not need the added stress of forcing this issue.
Allow your son to decide for himself (when he is old enough to effect the change legally) which name he would prefer to carry.
Most importantly, please do not force your agenda on him, either now or in the future. You did this once before, with your ex's name, and it turned out badly.
posted by misha at 3:35 PM on July 13, 2009
Your family should know how difficult this whole situation is for you. Why not just reassure them that later, when your son is old enough, you will explain the situation to him about your father's name and how important it is to you and other family members, and until them you do not need the added stress of forcing this issue.
Allow your son to decide for himself (when he is old enough to effect the change legally) which name he would prefer to carry.
Most importantly, please do not force your agenda on him, either now or in the future. You did this once before, with your ex's name, and it turned out badly.
posted by misha at 3:35 PM on July 13, 2009
I am not your lawyer. This is not legal advice.
It sounds like Kansas law requires you to get Daddy's permission to change the child's name, and barring that, you can't, at least as long as you live in Kansas.
I am baffled at the judge's suggestion that she "lacks jurisdiction" to change the child's middle name. If the court has "jurisdiction" to change last names, then it has jurisdiction to change middle names, unless there's some statute that specifically limits the court's power to do so. (Jurisdiction means a person or subject matter over which the court has some authority generally.)
The court may be correct, however, in thinking that it lacks the power to change the child's middle name without the consent of both parents. But again, I would think such a thing would be made clear in the state law.
On Preview:
Chapter 60.-- PROCEDURE, CIVIL
Article 14.-- CHANGE OF NAME
60-1401. Jurisdiction and costs. The district court shall have authority to change the name of any person, township, town or city within this state at the cost of the petitioner without affecting any legal right. History: L. 1963, ch. 303, 60-1401; Jan. 1, 1964.
60-1402. Change of name of person; notice; order. (a) Petition. A petition may be filed in the county in which the petitioner resides stating: (1) That the petitioner has been a resident of the state for at least 60 days, (2) the reason for the change of name, and (3) the name desired.
(b) Notice. Service of notice of the hearing may be made either by mail or by publication, in the discretion of the court. If notice is directed by publication, such notice shall be published as provided in subsection (d) of K.S.A. 60-307, and amendments thereto; and if notice of hearing is directed to be given by mail, service of notice may be made by registered or certified mail to parties of interest, as prescribed by the court.
(c) Order. If upon hearing the judge is satisfied as to the truth of the allegations of the petition, and that there is reasonable cause for changing the name of the petitioner the judge shall so order. History: L. 1963, ch. 303, 60-1402; L. 1974, ch. 240, § 1; L. 1979, ch. 184, § 1; L. 1990, ch. 202, § 12; Jan. 1, 1991.
http://www.namechangelaw.com/states/ks/kansas.htm
I'm sure your lawyer already knows this to the extent it's applicable. I'm still not sure why the court thinks it lacks jurisdiction.
posted by mikewas at 3:38 PM on July 13, 2009
It sounds like Kansas law requires you to get Daddy's permission to change the child's name, and barring that, you can't, at least as long as you live in Kansas.
I am baffled at the judge's suggestion that she "lacks jurisdiction" to change the child's middle name. If the court has "jurisdiction" to change last names, then it has jurisdiction to change middle names, unless there's some statute that specifically limits the court's power to do so. (Jurisdiction means a person or subject matter over which the court has some authority generally.)
The court may be correct, however, in thinking that it lacks the power to change the child's middle name without the consent of both parents. But again, I would think such a thing would be made clear in the state law.
On Preview:
Chapter 60.-- PROCEDURE, CIVIL
Article 14.-- CHANGE OF NAME
60-1401. Jurisdiction and costs. The district court shall have authority to change the name of any person, township, town or city within this state at the cost of the petitioner without affecting any legal right. History: L. 1963, ch. 303, 60-1401; Jan. 1, 1964.
60-1402. Change of name of person; notice; order. (a) Petition. A petition may be filed in the county in which the petitioner resides stating: (1) That the petitioner has been a resident of the state for at least 60 days, (2) the reason for the change of name, and (3) the name desired.
(b) Notice. Service of notice of the hearing may be made either by mail or by publication, in the discretion of the court. If notice is directed by publication, such notice shall be published as provided in subsection (d) of K.S.A. 60-307, and amendments thereto; and if notice of hearing is directed to be given by mail, service of notice may be made by registered or certified mail to parties of interest, as prescribed by the court.
(c) Order. If upon hearing the judge is satisfied as to the truth of the allegations of the petition, and that there is reasonable cause for changing the name of the petitioner the judge shall so order. History: L. 1963, ch. 303, 60-1402; L. 1974, ch. 240, § 1; L. 1979, ch. 184, § 1; L. 1990, ch. 202, § 12; Jan. 1, 1991.
http://www.namechangelaw.com/states/ks/kansas.htm
I'm sure your lawyer already knows this to the extent it's applicable. I'm still not sure why the court thinks it lacks jurisdiction.
posted by mikewas at 3:38 PM on July 13, 2009
I just have to come back in and say that I think you are putting a lot of pressure on your son to 'carry on' your father's name. You know, he could always have kids of his own and give one of them your father's name later.
But even if he doesn't, is it really the end of the world? Though I know you want to respect and remember your father and your family's name, there's a LOT more to family than a common name, as you learned from your ex's treatment of his son.
posted by misha at 3:40 PM on July 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
But even if he doesn't, is it really the end of the world? Though I know you want to respect and remember your father and your family's name, there's a LOT more to family than a common name, as you learned from your ex's treatment of his son.
posted by misha at 3:40 PM on July 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
Honestly? You seem like you have a lot on your hands already. Choose your battles wisely. Even the most positive outcome imaginable of this will benefit no one.
posted by falameufilho at 3:42 PM on July 13, 2009
posted by falameufilho at 3:42 PM on July 13, 2009
This is a terrible, terrible idea, and could easily be misrepresented later in life. If something happens and you're not around to explain it -- or your angry teen doesn't want to believe you -- it could easily look like you used his name to inject malice and carry out a personal vendetta. Who wants to live with a name with that kind of baggage attached?
Add the name of your father as a second middle name, but don't subtract the child's father's name.
And anyway, if the father won't consent, you're probably SOL, and I really doubt a court would side with you unless the father is a real monster.
I really don't think this is worth pursuing. Work on the compromise solution instead, or find another way to honour your father.
posted by glider at 4:38 PM on July 13, 2009
Add the name of your father as a second middle name, but don't subtract the child's father's name.
And anyway, if the father won't consent, you're probably SOL, and I really doubt a court would side with you unless the father is a real monster.
I really don't think this is worth pursuing. Work on the compromise solution instead, or find another way to honour your father.
posted by glider at 4:38 PM on July 13, 2009
Adding your father's name really seems like the move to me. Your son can decide which of his middle names he wants to use, if either, later in life.
And you can either do it legally or informally, or start doing it informally and then do it legally when things are at a calmer state between you and your son's father.
Unless your state is really, really unusual, there are likely to be no negative legal consequences to just starting to call your son "John Wilkes Fitzgerald Kennedy" or whatever, where "Wilkes" = "his dad's name" and "Fitzgerald" = "your dad's name".
I mean, register your son for kindergarten as "John Wilkes Fitzgerald Kennedy" even if it just says "John Wilkes Kennedy" on his birth certificate, and it seems to me very unlikely he'll ever have a problem. Anecdata point: my brother has two middle names, but only one made it onto his birth certificate because of a clerical error, and he's never had any problem getting a passport, driver's license, college diploma, etc. with both of his middle names on them.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:54 PM on July 13, 2009
And you can either do it legally or informally, or start doing it informally and then do it legally when things are at a calmer state between you and your son's father.
Unless your state is really, really unusual, there are likely to be no negative legal consequences to just starting to call your son "John Wilkes Fitzgerald Kennedy" or whatever, where "Wilkes" = "his dad's name" and "Fitzgerald" = "your dad's name".
I mean, register your son for kindergarten as "John Wilkes Fitzgerald Kennedy" even if it just says "John Wilkes Kennedy" on his birth certificate, and it seems to me very unlikely he'll ever have a problem. Anecdata point: my brother has two middle names, but only one made it onto his birth certificate because of a clerical error, and he's never had any problem getting a passport, driver's license, college diploma, etc. with both of his middle names on them.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:54 PM on July 13, 2009
I can see why changing his name is best for your family (to carry on your father's name).
I can see why the father wants the name to be the same (it's his name, and his son).
What I can't see is how changing the name is best for your son. He will either have the name of a mostly-absent father, or the name of a grandfather who died when he was one year old. Either way makes no difference in your son's well-being.
However, antagonizing an already tenuous relationship with his father will definitely not be in his best interest. Yes, the father may be a complete ass, but if the courts are still allowing him the rights and privileges of parenthood, then it must be in your child's best interest because that's what the courts focus on -- not what's best for either parent, but what's best for the child.
Something to consider.
posted by Houstonian at 5:18 PM on July 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
I can see why the father wants the name to be the same (it's his name, and his son).
What I can't see is how changing the name is best for your son. He will either have the name of a mostly-absent father, or the name of a grandfather who died when he was one year old. Either way makes no difference in your son's well-being.
However, antagonizing an already tenuous relationship with his father will definitely not be in his best interest. Yes, the father may be a complete ass, but if the courts are still allowing him the rights and privileges of parenthood, then it must be in your child's best interest because that's what the courts focus on -- not what's best for either parent, but what's best for the child.
Something to consider.
posted by Houstonian at 5:18 PM on July 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
Is there a reason why instead of John Fitzgerald Kennedy your son can't be John Fitzgerald Wilkes Kennedy? Everyone in my family has two middle names, and indeed one of mine is a paternal traditional name that every male has had since God was a small child.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 5:54 PM on July 13, 2009
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 5:54 PM on July 13, 2009
In my paternal grandfather's generation, *all* of the children (all seven of them) found out as adults that they had different names or ages than what was on their birth certificates. Essentially, Ma Plinth decided for one reason or another to change the conventional names of her children - usually as the result of a disagreement with Pa. At a family reunion, they discovered different middle names, different first names, no middle name, and in the case of my Great Uncle Byron, he one year (IIRC) younger than he thought. He found out while trying to enlist in the Navy for WWII and they turned hum down for being too young. Ma sent him to school early because "he was such a bugger - the teachers would straighten him out."
Confusion? Sure. Comedy gold? Definitely. This of course, wasn't Ma's goal, but choosing a new middle name is no different than some family traditions of always using a nickname or in my wife's family, using middle names as common names. Heck, we refer to my son as Buddy pretty often.
posted by plinth at 5:55 PM on July 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
Confusion? Sure. Comedy gold? Definitely. This of course, wasn't Ma's goal, but choosing a new middle name is no different than some family traditions of always using a nickname or in my wife's family, using middle names as common names. Heck, we refer to my son as Buddy pretty often.
posted by plinth at 5:55 PM on July 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
I hit post too soon.
The point of using both is that your son's father doesn't feel left out, and you get to honour your father. I would suggest in the interests of peace that if you do this, go with Firstname Fathername Grandfathername Surname.
Also, it is orders of magnitude more frightening to hear your parent yell "Firstname Middlename Middlename Surname, come here!" than just Firstname Middlename Surname. They have to take more time to get it out, and you know they're mad that you decapitated your sister's Barbies. Again.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 5:57 PM on July 13, 2009
The point of using both is that your son's father doesn't feel left out, and you get to honour your father. I would suggest in the interests of peace that if you do this, go with Firstname Fathername Grandfathername Surname.
Also, it is orders of magnitude more frightening to hear your parent yell "Firstname Middlename Middlename Surname, come here!" than just Firstname Middlename Surname. They have to take more time to get it out, and you know they're mad that you decapitated your sister's Barbies. Again.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 5:57 PM on July 13, 2009
This seems to me to be about money or value for the boy's father. Ask him what it will take. He will come up with some number. Then you decide to pay it or not.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 6:02 PM on July 13, 2009
posted by JohnnyGunn at 6:02 PM on July 13, 2009
My dad's middle name was supposed to be for a war buddy of my grandfathers. My grandmother realized that by adding a D to his middle name, his initials would be LDS (and they were, in fact Mormon, or LDS). She changed his middle name with the hospital without the knowledge of my grandfather, and for my dad's entire life his initials were LDS (grandfather found out about on the way home).
Fast forward 50 or so years, in which my dad requests an official copy of his birth certificate to get his passport. Turns out grandma never changed his name with the state. EVERY. SINLGE. THING. my dad has ever done legally has been as LDS with absolutely no problems, but it turns out his legal name with the state is LES. Finding this out, he learned he had 2 options in order to get his passport: 1) Change 50 years worth of living and paperwork to reflect his legal name: LES; or 2) Legally change his name to LDS and avoid changing 50 years worth of paperwork.
This was in WA state. Thought it might be a helpful data point for you.
(I would also say that there's a reason the father has to give consent for legal name changes, no matter the intent. If Mr. Moojoose's ex had her way, their mutual children wouldn't have his last name, but her new husband's last name, nor his son have his middle name, but her father's birth name. Thank goodness it doesn't happen so easily.)
posted by moojoose at 6:29 PM on July 13, 2009
Fast forward 50 or so years, in which my dad requests an official copy of his birth certificate to get his passport. Turns out grandma never changed his name with the state. EVERY. SINLGE. THING. my dad has ever done legally has been as LDS with absolutely no problems, but it turns out his legal name with the state is LES. Finding this out, he learned he had 2 options in order to get his passport: 1) Change 50 years worth of living and paperwork to reflect his legal name: LES; or 2) Legally change his name to LDS and avoid changing 50 years worth of paperwork.
This was in WA state. Thought it might be a helpful data point for you.
(I would also say that there's a reason the father has to give consent for legal name changes, no matter the intent. If Mr. Moojoose's ex had her way, their mutual children wouldn't have his last name, but her new husband's last name, nor his son have his middle name, but her father's birth name. Thank goodness it doesn't happen so easily.)
posted by moojoose at 6:29 PM on July 13, 2009
As the father, he still has the right to refuse to sign the form, a right that he's exercising.
How will your kid feel in the future about your fighting over the name? Changing your kid's name on later on seems just... weird anyway, it looks like you've missed the train on this one.
And this: What I can't see is how changing the name is best for your son. He will either have the name of a mostly-absent father, or the name of a grandfather who died when he was one year old. Either way makes no difference in your son's well-being.
Seriously.
posted by dunkadunc at 6:59 PM on July 13, 2009
How will your kid feel in the future about your fighting over the name? Changing your kid's name on later on seems just... weird anyway, it looks like you've missed the train on this one.
And this: What I can't see is how changing the name is best for your son. He will either have the name of a mostly-absent father, or the name of a grandfather who died when he was one year old. Either way makes no difference in your son's well-being.
Seriously.
posted by dunkadunc at 6:59 PM on July 13, 2009
It's occurred to me why you would want (and the courts may require) agreement of both parents. Imagine if they didn't require it!
You would file a petition, and his middle name would change from Joe to Bob.
Then the father would file a petition, and his middle name would change from Bob to Joe.
Then you would file a petition...
posted by Houstonian at 7:16 PM on July 13, 2009
You would file a petition, and his middle name would change from Joe to Bob.
Then the father would file a petition, and his middle name would change from Bob to Joe.
Then you would file a petition...
posted by Houstonian at 7:16 PM on July 13, 2009
He will either have the name of a mostly-absent father, or the name of a grandfather who died when he was one year old. Either way makes no difference in your son's well-being.
It might not make a difference to my literal well-being, but I always liked the fact that I was named after both of my grandfathers, both of whom passed away before I was born. The grandfather who gave me my middle name was murdered in the Holocaust, so I'm especially glad to carry on his memory.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 8:31 PM on July 13, 2009
It might not make a difference to my literal well-being, but I always liked the fact that I was named after both of my grandfathers, both of whom passed away before I was born. The grandfather who gave me my middle name was murdered in the Holocaust, so I'm especially glad to carry on his memory.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 8:31 PM on July 13, 2009
When your son is 18 he can do it himself. I know this is going to sound a little harsh because you've obviously been through a lot, but you only get one chance to name your child and now his name is his. Yes I get he's only 2, but you really have no idea how he will feel about his middle name and it is no longer yours to change. He has the rest of his adult life to honor his grandfather, maybe he'll do that by changing his middle name, maybe he'll do that by naming one of his children after him, or maybe he won't do it at all because he never knew his grandfather and feels no connection to him. But really you don't get a do over here.
Also you don't know how he'll feel about his own father and being named after him. In five years your ex could step up to the plate and be a real father and maybe he won't. You cannot count on your son feeling the same way about his father as you do.
I have no legal advice for you other than to say that whether you win or lose this fight, your son can change or unchange his name when he's an adult. So I have to wonder what's the point.
posted by whoaali at 9:44 PM on July 13, 2009
Also you don't know how he'll feel about his own father and being named after him. In five years your ex could step up to the plate and be a real father and maybe he won't. You cannot count on your son feeling the same way about his father as you do.
I have no legal advice for you other than to say that whether you win or lose this fight, your son can change or unchange his name when he's an adult. So I have to wonder what's the point.
posted by whoaali at 9:44 PM on July 13, 2009
Response by poster: Thanks a lot for all of the responses. Y'all have given me a few things to think about. I appreciate the feedback.
posted by mezzanayne at 11:24 PM on July 13, 2009
posted by mezzanayne at 11:24 PM on July 13, 2009
My son is the only male descendant of my father and because of that this issue has become quite important to my family. Of my siblings, 2 now use a married name and have no male children and a 3rd sister will not ever have children.
A bit late to the game here, but if I'm reading correctly, your son already has the same last name as both you and your father? Then your father's name is continuing on . . . I mean, that's what patrilineally determined surnames are for.
I agree with everyone upthread who's saying that this seems like an awful lot of pressure to put on your kid.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:44 AM on July 14, 2009
A bit late to the game here, but if I'm reading correctly, your son already has the same last name as both you and your father? Then your father's name is continuing on . . . I mean, that's what patrilineally determined surnames are for.
I agree with everyone upthread who's saying that this seems like an awful lot of pressure to put on your kid.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:44 AM on July 14, 2009
@Ironmouth, I very much respect my attorney but even she has stated that she's unaware of the legal standing of this case and has encouraged me to research on my own.
That's evidence of a need for a new attorney. I wouldn't do that, ever.
posted by Ironmouth at 11:05 AM on July 14, 2009
That's evidence of a need for a new attorney. I wouldn't do that, ever.
posted by Ironmouth at 11:05 AM on July 14, 2009
@Ironmouth, I very much respect my attorney but even she has stated that she's unaware of the legal standing of this case and has encouraged me to research on my own.
That's evidence of a need for a new attorney. I wouldn't do that, ever.
Wow, seriously. Your lawyer doesn't know and isn't doing the research? That is her job. Fire her and find someone who does know.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 11:33 AM on July 14, 2009
Yeah. Your lawyer needs to start researching, otherwise, what are you paying her for?
posted by agregoli at 6:39 PM on July 15, 2009
posted by agregoli at 6:39 PM on July 15, 2009
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posted by amanda at 1:32 PM on July 13, 2009 [1 favorite]