Advice needed for a fender bender.
July 8, 2009 6:15 PM Subscribe
[Auto Body Damage Filter] I need some advice on a minor fender bender I got into this weekend. Help me keep my 4th of Juplaya vacation from costing me an extra three thousand dollars!
Over the 4th of July weekend, I went to Black Rock City near Gerlach, NV for the 4th of Juplaya event (yaaay Burning Man!). Much fun was had shooting off guns, playing with flame throwers, swimming in natural springs and jumping in bouncy houses. As my car is a bit too small for three people and their gear (not to mention not particularly well equipped for the "roads") I borrowed a Honda CR-V (which I am insured on).
While at the event, I backed into a 2000 Honda DX and caused some damage to it, but no damage to my vehicle. The impact happened thusly: We were on a small, dirt road with cars parked on both sides of it. I was parked too close to the vehicle in front of me to be able to drive out straight, so I had to back out a bit for more space. The person driving the other vehicle was in the middle of a 3 (5? 9?) point turn, and was right behind me. I backed into them and dented an area right underneath the back window. There was no damage to my vehicle, as I hit them with the spare tire on the back of the truck. If you look at this picture, the dent was below the back window, right along the line of the "ridge". Perhaps a foot and a half wide, and six to eight inches from top to bottom.
The car that I hit had already been in a previous wreck, which was evident by significant denting closer to the ground. All along the door and the base of the back panel was dented in rather significantly.
Once back in civilization, I was contacted by the girl who was driving the car to make arrangements to have it resolved. Though I am insured on the car I was driving, it is in my best interests to keep insurance out of the picture (I am insured, I was not intoxicated, I am allowed to drive the car, however I would MUCH prefer to not have a higher insurance premium, among other reasons).
I received a faxed estimate to repair the damages on the car. To the tune of $2968.78. I perused the estimate and it does only cover the damage I did (the existing damage to the door, etc is not included). The girl driving the car specified that the auto body shop said that this would be more than half the value of the car and it would likely be written off with a salvage title.
However, this seems like an extremely large amount of money for one dent, and I would like some advice on how to deal with this.
My questions are:
1. 16.6 "labor units" is what is listed to remove and replace the "L QUARTER OUTSIDE PANEL" as well as to refinish the L QUARTER PANEL OUTSIDE, * EDGE, and L ADD FOR PILLAR. Is this 16.6 hours? Does it really take 2 working days to replace one panel on a car, not including paint, etc?
2. In a situation like this (YANM auto insurance) would it be assumed that I would automatically be at fault? Or could the fault lie somewhere in the middle since the person was engaged in a not-so-safe practice right behind my vehicle?
3. Is almost $3000 for a repair like this reasonable? Is it possible she went to the most expensive place in town (Bay Area, CA)?
4. If the car is considered "totalled" or "salvage" would the other damage be taken into consideration, and therefore absolve me from some of the costs here? I don't see how the minor wreck I was involved in is going to be considered the "tipping point" for an already wrecked car.
I am expecting some answers of "just let the damn insurance company deal with it!" and while I recognize this may be the best course of action, I'd like some other options. Worse comes to worse, I do have the money to pay for the damages. However, I'm pretty darned sure that the owner is not going to replace only one body panel of an already wrecked car.
Any advice would be very, very appreciated.
Over the 4th of July weekend, I went to Black Rock City near Gerlach, NV for the 4th of Juplaya event (yaaay Burning Man!). Much fun was had shooting off guns, playing with flame throwers, swimming in natural springs and jumping in bouncy houses. As my car is a bit too small for three people and their gear (not to mention not particularly well equipped for the "roads") I borrowed a Honda CR-V (which I am insured on).
While at the event, I backed into a 2000 Honda DX and caused some damage to it, but no damage to my vehicle. The impact happened thusly: We were on a small, dirt road with cars parked on both sides of it. I was parked too close to the vehicle in front of me to be able to drive out straight, so I had to back out a bit for more space. The person driving the other vehicle was in the middle of a 3 (5? 9?) point turn, and was right behind me. I backed into them and dented an area right underneath the back window. There was no damage to my vehicle, as I hit them with the spare tire on the back of the truck. If you look at this picture, the dent was below the back window, right along the line of the "ridge". Perhaps a foot and a half wide, and six to eight inches from top to bottom.
The car that I hit had already been in a previous wreck, which was evident by significant denting closer to the ground. All along the door and the base of the back panel was dented in rather significantly.
Once back in civilization, I was contacted by the girl who was driving the car to make arrangements to have it resolved. Though I am insured on the car I was driving, it is in my best interests to keep insurance out of the picture (I am insured, I was not intoxicated, I am allowed to drive the car, however I would MUCH prefer to not have a higher insurance premium, among other reasons).
I received a faxed estimate to repair the damages on the car. To the tune of $2968.78. I perused the estimate and it does only cover the damage I did (the existing damage to the door, etc is not included). The girl driving the car specified that the auto body shop said that this would be more than half the value of the car and it would likely be written off with a salvage title.
However, this seems like an extremely large amount of money for one dent, and I would like some advice on how to deal with this.
My questions are:
1. 16.6 "labor units" is what is listed to remove and replace the "L QUARTER OUTSIDE PANEL" as well as to refinish the L QUARTER PANEL OUTSIDE, * EDGE, and L ADD FOR PILLAR. Is this 16.6 hours? Does it really take 2 working days to replace one panel on a car, not including paint, etc?
2. In a situation like this (YANM auto insurance) would it be assumed that I would automatically be at fault? Or could the fault lie somewhere in the middle since the person was engaged in a not-so-safe practice right behind my vehicle?
3. Is almost $3000 for a repair like this reasonable? Is it possible she went to the most expensive place in town (Bay Area, CA)?
4. If the car is considered "totalled" or "salvage" would the other damage be taken into consideration, and therefore absolve me from some of the costs here? I don't see how the minor wreck I was involved in is going to be considered the "tipping point" for an already wrecked car.
I am expecting some answers of "just let the damn insurance company deal with it!" and while I recognize this may be the best course of action, I'd like some other options. Worse comes to worse, I do have the money to pay for the damages. However, I'm pretty darned sure that the owner is not going to replace only one body panel of an already wrecked car.
Any advice would be very, very appreciated.
I can only speak as someone who has been hit so many times, as recently as last week even.
If you look at this picture, the dent was below the back window, right along the line of the "ridge". Perhaps a foot and a half wide, and six to eight inches from top to bottom.
You unfortunately hit a huge portion of the car. Starts at the side mirror, goes up around the door and all the way to the rear bumper.
1. Yes, that seems reasonable... because who knows what a labor unit is. What's a labor unit? 12 minutes? 1 hour? 13.23 milliseconds? Call and find out what a labor unit includes, what it's equal to time wise and what's the bill rate for a labor unit. While you are there, ask them if they are using after market or factory parts, ask them if the part can be obtained used and find out if they are getting the part already painted or if they are doing it themselves in house.
2. Depends on what the California standards of fault are. In Massachusetts, if you were backing up and hit someone -- especially square on the side of the car -- you are at fault without a doubt. You can't really argue that they hit you. It doesn't matter what they were doing, you were backing up.
3. Its possible she did. It's also possible that this is an extraordinary amount of work just because the panel of the car you hit was enormous and the part might be expensive. Find out why. Ask.
4. As far as I am aware, only an insurance company would total a vehicle in this situation. Unless, you know, it was entirely unrepairable or at the bottom of the ocean at which point, I think people would just agree. I don't believe this absolves you of anything you did though. You caused further damage to a vehicle that was already in a certain condition. Whether your actions caused it to be totaled is a matter of the insurance company's judgment weighing the value of the vehicle against the cost to repair. How many miles are on the car? I'm presuming plenty if a couple dings are totaling the vehicle.
You can ask her to get another estimate and see if she'll comply. She can tell you to screw. And she might just go first party and put the claim in citing you and your insurance. In which case, you will take a hit anyway.
If you are concerned about this chick taking your $2968.78 and pocketing it, you can talk to the body shop, explain the situation and tell them that you are taking their estimate at good faith. That you agree to pay just the estimate provided and the bill should go to you.
You can tell the girl that you'll write up a contract agreeing to pay the $2968.78 and only the $2968.78 once the auto shop provides you the invoice and proof of work (pictures) performed.
posted by jerseygirl at 7:26 PM on July 8, 2009
If you look at this picture, the dent was below the back window, right along the line of the "ridge". Perhaps a foot and a half wide, and six to eight inches from top to bottom.
You unfortunately hit a huge portion of the car. Starts at the side mirror, goes up around the door and all the way to the rear bumper.
1. Yes, that seems reasonable... because who knows what a labor unit is. What's a labor unit? 12 minutes? 1 hour? 13.23 milliseconds? Call and find out what a labor unit includes, what it's equal to time wise and what's the bill rate for a labor unit. While you are there, ask them if they are using after market or factory parts, ask them if the part can be obtained used and find out if they are getting the part already painted or if they are doing it themselves in house.
2. Depends on what the California standards of fault are. In Massachusetts, if you were backing up and hit someone -- especially square on the side of the car -- you are at fault without a doubt. You can't really argue that they hit you. It doesn't matter what they were doing, you were backing up.
3. Its possible she did. It's also possible that this is an extraordinary amount of work just because the panel of the car you hit was enormous and the part might be expensive. Find out why. Ask.
4. As far as I am aware, only an insurance company would total a vehicle in this situation. Unless, you know, it was entirely unrepairable or at the bottom of the ocean at which point, I think people would just agree. I don't believe this absolves you of anything you did though. You caused further damage to a vehicle that was already in a certain condition. Whether your actions caused it to be totaled is a matter of the insurance company's judgment weighing the value of the vehicle against the cost to repair. How many miles are on the car? I'm presuming plenty if a couple dings are totaling the vehicle.
You can ask her to get another estimate and see if she'll comply. She can tell you to screw. And she might just go first party and put the claim in citing you and your insurance. In which case, you will take a hit anyway.
If you are concerned about this chick taking your $2968.78 and pocketing it, you can talk to the body shop, explain the situation and tell them that you are taking their estimate at good faith. That you agree to pay just the estimate provided and the bill should go to you.
You can tell the girl that you'll write up a contract agreeing to pay the $2968.78 and only the $2968.78 once the auto shop provides you the invoice and proof of work (pictures) performed.
posted by jerseygirl at 7:26 PM on July 8, 2009
If her car works fine anyway, just offer her $500-1000 in cash, since her car presumably works fine. There's no point in getting the damage repaired if the car is already damaged and works fine anyway, so at least this way she makes some money and you save some money.
posted by Slinga at 8:30 PM on July 8, 2009
posted by Slinga at 8:30 PM on July 8, 2009
The estimate does not seem high to me. If you give her any trouble, she will suspect you are trying to weasel your way out of paying for the damage and she will have a very good reason to contact her insurance company. (Or even the police.) Her insurance company will then go after your insurance company.
There are only two things you can do: pay out-of-pocket, or go through your insurance. If the increase in your premiums will cost you less than $3000, go through the insurance.
posted by twblalock at 10:38 PM on July 8, 2009
There are only two things you can do: pay out-of-pocket, or go through your insurance. If the increase in your premiums will cost you less than $3000, go through the insurance.
posted by twblalock at 10:38 PM on July 8, 2009
Lest you be disappointed, just let the damn insurance company deal with it! This is what you're paying them for. It seems very unlikely that you'd see a cumulative $3k increase in premiums unless, maybe, you get into this sort of scrape often.
That said, it's perfectly reasonable to ask her to get other estimates. Any insurance company would require the same. Also, it's none of your business whether she actually has the repairs done to the car; you're responsible for reimbursing her for damage done, and what she chooses to do with that reimbursement is totally up to her.
posted by jon1270 at 4:01 AM on July 9, 2009
That said, it's perfectly reasonable to ask her to get other estimates. Any insurance company would require the same. Also, it's none of your business whether she actually has the repairs done to the car; you're responsible for reimbursing her for damage done, and what she chooses to do with that reimbursement is totally up to her.
posted by jon1270 at 4:01 AM on July 9, 2009
That said, it's perfectly reasonable to ask her to get other estimates. Any insurance company would require the same.
Having had a handful of small accidents where other people have hit my cars, I've never been asked by any insurance company to get a second estimate when I've taken the car in for repairs. At least in California, you have the right to have your car repaired by any shop you choose.
posted by foodgeek at 10:16 AM on July 9, 2009
Having had a handful of small accidents where other people have hit my cars, I've never been asked by any insurance company to get a second estimate when I've taken the car in for repairs. At least in California, you have the right to have your car repaired by any shop you choose.
posted by foodgeek at 10:16 AM on July 9, 2009
How do you know if you give her cash that she wont go around and report it to her insurance company and screw you anyhow? Did the police come to the scene to file a report?
posted by WeekendJen at 11:02 AM on July 9, 2009
posted by WeekendJen at 11:02 AM on July 9, 2009
Response by poster: This is all good information, thank you. I spoke with the girl who owns the car today (her roommate, the driver, was playing middle man) and she said that she would go away for $2000. I'm thinking this might be the best course of action as I'm pretty sure my insurance will go up quite a bit from totaling another car.
I figured I would write up some kind of contract (something along the lines of "take this $2000 and never darken my doorstep again") to have us both sign, give her the check, and then never look back. Does this sound like a bad idea to anyone?
posted by sacrifix at 12:20 PM on July 9, 2009
I figured I would write up some kind of contract (something along the lines of "take this $2000 and never darken my doorstep again") to have us both sign, give her the check, and then never look back. Does this sound like a bad idea to anyone?
posted by sacrifix at 12:20 PM on July 9, 2009
I'd offer less, since my guess is that her car was worth less than the 2k before you hit it, when you factor in the previous damage. Depends on how much of a cheapskate you are and whether you want to play a game of chicken with her.
posted by Slinga at 10:13 PM on July 9, 2009
posted by Slinga at 10:13 PM on July 9, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
2 - once you've offered to pay out of pocket to fix the other car you'll have a hard time arguing that it wasn't your fault.
3 - in general, it costs a couple of thousand bucks to get any bodyshop to do anything to a car.
4 - the car would be totaled if the repair costs were similar to the value of the car, if the car is already smashed in several places then the car wouldn't have been worth very much before you drove into it. The car can only be totaled by the insurance company - they would pay the owner the pre-accident value of the car and take ownership of the car. It really doesn't matter if you're paying out of pocket.
If I were in your shoes I'd call the body shop, explain the situation, tell them you're paying for the repairs yourself and see what sort of deal they can offer you. Contact the owner of the other car, offer her two options - you pay the shop directly (tell her how much the shop quoted you for paying directly) and they fix her car or she and you agree on a lower dollar amount and she pockets the money. She's likely to take the money. Either way you're likely to be out less than the full three grand.
posted by foodgeek at 6:48 PM on July 8, 2009