buying home - pay for unused existing fuel?

June 22, 2009 3:37 PM

First time homebuyer - "its customary to purchase the unused fuel from the seller" urf?

I am 2 months into purchasing a home; jumped numerous hurdles; and finally tomorrow am hopefully signing 30 years away.

The Realtor sprung this jem on me today -- they said "it is customary for the buyer to purchase the fuel oil that is present from the seller".

I am buying from the same Realtor that is selling the place -- but my purchase and sale does not mention the fuel oil.

So my friends -- what gives?

posted by SirStan to Home & Garden (39 answers total)

I'd call their bluff and tell them they're welcome to extract and keep the fuel oil.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 3:40 PM on June 22, 2009 [1 favorite]

I'm not sure about custom, but we had to pay a deposit for a tank full of fuel oil when we bought our house. In comparison, it sounds like a good deal to buy the remainder from the seller rather than having to fill it.
posted by B-squared at 3:44 PM on June 22, 2009

man it would cost them some dough to dispose of that stuff. tell them to take it with them. on second thought, i may not be the best authority on this, living in in the deep south like this
posted by Redhush at 3:45 PM on June 22, 2009

Where I am, the seller "sells" the fuel back to the distributor, and gets money (refund) for the unused fuel. then you set up an account with the fuel distributor. Some people do their own fuel acquisition, without an account (I live in a very rural area). If the guy had to go and get his own fuel, and fill the tank himself, he could ask you to pay for it. If you didn't want it, he would have to find some way to take it with him.
posted by fifilaru at 3:45 PM on June 22, 2009

Seconding. Tell them that you'll buy your own, and see what happens.
posted by davey_darling at 3:46 PM on June 22, 2009

Simply say that it is customary for provisions such as this to be placed into the contract. If you had known this before then you might have made a different choice with regards to the purchase of the home. Don;t let them pull that crap with you.

It might be customary for some folks, but that doesn't mean that you have to oblige their wants and needs, nor feel pressured into paying for this fuel oil. Tell her to pay it from her commission if it is a sticking point with the seller. :)
posted by Gravitus at 3:46 PM on June 22, 2009 [7 favorites]

Fuel oil adjustment to be paid to the seller at closing is not uncommon at closing time, but I'm surprised that you were first notified of it informally, the day before closing.
posted by necessitas at 3:49 PM on June 22, 2009

When I bought a house with an oil furnace, indeed, at closing I had to pay for the fuel in the tank.
posted by bz at 3:50 PM on June 22, 2009 [1 favorite]

I've only taken 1/3rd of the classes required for my real estate salespersons license, but fuel on the property strikes me as mobile and thus not part of the fixed improvements that come with the title, IM very untrained & inexperienced O.

So technically paying extra for the fuel isn't chiselling money out of you.

Look over your purchase agreement for the wording of what is personal property of the seller. Depending on the wording you may be able to get the fuel for free.
posted by @troy at 3:50 PM on June 22, 2009

Who pays for the fuel oil in the tank is a clause in the standard North Carolina home purchase contract, and it's the sort of thing that gets negotiated either way before both parties sign.

If it's not in your contract, then it's negotiable -- customary, schmustomary -- and it's a bit shitty of the realtor to spring this on you a day before closing, not least because you presumably don't have a verified measurement of what's in the tank. Don't feel bullied in to signing, even if that means delaying the closing.
posted by holgate at 3:53 PM on June 22, 2009

Response by poster: "but I'm surprised that you were first notified of it informally, the day before closing."

Seriously .. the conversation went like this...

Realtor: "Do you want to come review the property before we close?.."
Me: Sure.. meet you there.

Onsite..

Realtor: "Lets review the tanks.. its customary to buy the remaining fuel from the seller..."
Me: hrm..
Realtor: Looks like half a tanks left..
Me: so ~$500?
Realtor: $606.25
Me: What the fsck? Really? When were you going to mention this?
Realtor: It is being worked into the .

So yes -- swear to god.. its not present in the P&S, it was not previously EVER mentioned until today, 23 hours before closing.
posted by SirStan at 3:56 PM on June 22, 2009

Simply say that it is customary for provisions such as this to be placed into the contract. If you had known this before then you might have made a different choice with regards to the purchase of the home.

This, and add "but of course I'm willing to negotiate on this. Let me know how much fuel is left and how much he wants, and if it's too much I'll give him x days to remove it from the property." Smile when you say it. :)
posted by davejay at 3:57 PM on June 22, 2009 [1 favorite]

Oh, and note: they didn't spring this on you at the last minute because it was a mistake, they did it because they know you're more likely to suck it up that way. Be willing to delay the closing.
posted by davejay at 3:58 PM on June 22, 2009

Finally: figure out how much you're willing to pay for the oil before you do this, taking into account any cost to you for the delay. The realtor fucked up, and the seller isn't going to want to move the oil. Whatever you're willing to pay, the realtor will likely have to give the rest to the seller out of his/her commission to avoid having an angry client.
posted by davejay at 4:00 PM on June 22, 2009

I've bought and solds homes with fuel oil and it is customary to buy the fuel oil that remains in the tank. To do otherwise is the same as asking the seller to pay for a month's heat bill next winter.

However, the realtor made a mistake not putting it in the contract. You're looking at this as though the realtor has taken advantage of you, but they may well have simply not suspected that you weren't aware that that's the way it's done. In reality, the fact that it wasn't put in the contract gives you the ability to take advantage of the seller's oversight. So basically, you get to decide whether you want to stick it to the seller or not - but you shouldn't imagine that you're acting forthrightly if you decide to do it that way.

re: holgate's comment, the fuel tank has to have a gauge on it in order to be legal. The company that has provided the oil the previous winter will determine exactly how much oil remains in the tank.

re: gravitus comment, putting it on the realtor may be your best bet. It doesn't penalize the seller for the realtor's mistake, but it does prevent you from paying.

Good luck. I know buying a house is about as stressful as it gets. Sounds like it'll be over soon and you'll be able to move on with life!
posted by Quizicalcoatl at 4:12 PM on June 22, 2009

This is usually one of those negotiable points that is a back and forth item when people are making final arrangements. Pretty sure when I bought my house I did NOT pay for the fuel in the tank. If I were you I'd basically figure out what the going rate on fuel oil is per gallon, figure out what you're being asked to pay for the faul that comes with the house per gallon, and either

1. say to yourself "yay I'm saving money on fuel"
2. say to the realtor "hey fuel is cheaper now, I shouldn't be penalized because the person I'm buying from got a bad deal on fuel, let's say I'll pay going market rate for this fuel and you'll say you're sorry for forgetting to tell me that I had to pay this at all"

Basically you'll have to buy fuel oil at some point, I'd make this into a win for you by making sure the oil in the tank is costing what you were expecting to pay or less.
posted by jessamyn at 4:12 PM on June 22, 2009 [1 favorite]

I fail to see why this is a problem. Presumably you'll need fuel soon enough. What's wrong with buying the fuel that's already in the tank? As long as you can get a reasonably accurate reading of the fuel level and are paying a reasonable price per unit volume, what's the worry? This sort of adjustment (and others for property taxes and other bills paid for the period in which ownership changes) is totally normal in my experience.
posted by ssg at 4:24 PM on June 22, 2009

Response by poster: Legalese fail. I misunderstood this section of the P&S.

Fuel, utilities, rent and similar items shall be adjusted on a pro rata basis so that Seller shall pay the pro rata share of such items up to and including the day before closing, and Purchaser shall pay the pro rata share of such items beginning on the day of closing.
posted by SirStan at 4:25 PM on June 22, 2009

I would second that you've got some wiggle room to offer for them take the fuel with them. You could also say that you're not interested in adding any money to the purchase price. They can leave the fuel or take it with them, but you won't be paying for it. This feels to me like the Realtor is trying to pull a quick one on you. However, if you love this home, don't lose the property on a couple hundred bucks worth of fuel.
posted by gocubbies at 4:48 PM on June 22, 2009

It's completely normal to pay for the fuel already in the tank, but your realtor is a moron for not mentioning it to you sooner -- especially if he knows you're a first time homeowner.
posted by Simon Barclay at 4:55 PM on June 22, 2009

It is absolutely customary (in New England at least), your realtor was a putz for not pointing it out to you, and you'll be using that fuel anyway, so you lose nothing by the deal.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:59 PM on June 22, 2009

... what does your ATTORNEY have to say. You DO have an attorney, right? I mean, you're in a dual agency situation, so you MUST have SOMEONE in your corner looking out for your interests, right?

For what it's worth, my attorney would have told them to shove their 'customary' bullshit up their asses, and give him a call when they want to sell a house. There is nothing customary about selling 'oil' along with a house. You agreed on a price, they changed the price, time to walk, buddy. They'll come back. Then you lower your offer by 10%.

Really, don't be a schmuck here. You are the one with the power, not them.
posted by Geckwoistmeinauto at 4:59 PM on June 22, 2009

This feels to me like the Realtor is trying to pull a quick one on you.

This is almost certainly not the case. It really is customary.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:00 PM on June 22, 2009

There is nothing customary about selling 'oil' along with a house.

Bullshit. It is customary, and it's spelled out in his P&S, so he doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.

The realtor was a dumbass for not explaining it, though.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:01 PM on June 22, 2009

I'd just like to add that in a dual agency situation, the only contractual responsibility of the Realtor is to the sellers. They are bound by no contract to get you a good deal or look out for your interests. Do with that what you may.
posted by Geckwoistmeinauto at 5:02 PM on June 22, 2009

One more for customary.

And come on, it's not as if you wouldn't be buying fuel anyway. Put it into perspective, folks. Suggesting that the seller take it away is just juvenile.
posted by IndigoJones at 5:12 PM on June 22, 2009

Earlier this month I bought a house (in CT) and my lawyer explained to me that I would buy the remainder of the fuel in the tank. Perhaps that was the problem, the realtor expected your lawyer to mention it to you, and your lawyer vice versa. It was similarly a little late in the game for me, too.

(Turned out, the tank was almost dry, so I didn't pay anything. Just spent $400 to fill it up, though.)
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 5:24 PM on June 22, 2009

It is customary. They should have mentioned it, but it is normal.
posted by Flood at 5:40 PM on June 22, 2009

To require the seller to remove the fuel is insane. It is ten times more difficult and costly to pump a tank dry, then it is to fill the tank up.

I doubt the local fuel distributor even has a pump to do it.
posted by Flood at 5:42 PM on June 22, 2009

I also had to buy the oil already in the tank when I purchased my home in CT ten years ago. Yes, it's customary.

Jessamyn's right about keeping an eye on the price per gallon. I have a friend who locked in at the wrong time last year and paid dearly for it this past winter. No reason you should have to pay for someone else's bad timing.
posted by contrariwise at 6:09 PM on June 22, 2009

offer to pay half the amount they are asking since it was just sprung on you. Let the realtor at fault will pay the rest out of their commission.
posted by any major dude at 6:15 PM on June 22, 2009

This is pretty customary from my experience (buying a place near Boston). Our Realtor explained this when we made the initial offer, so your Realtor should have done the same. We actually ended up not paying, as the seller had left a load of crap in the attic, and it turned out that the price of getting a junk hauling place to take it was about the cost of the fuel oil.
posted by baggers at 6:18 PM on June 22, 2009

It might be customary, but it's not in the contract. (I don't read the quoted section as necessarily applying to heating oil. How do you pro-rate oil? It is just stuff they left in the house. Do you get charged extra for the gas when you buy a car?

But really, you are talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars. A few hundred worth of oil that will presumably still be good in the fall shouldn't be a deal breaker. (It will be good in the fall, right? Does that stuff go bad?)

Have it tested, too. Maybe they filled the thing up halfway with water.
posted by gjc at 6:30 PM on June 22, 2009

Fuel, utilities, rent and similar items shall be adjusted on a pro rata basis so that Seller shall pay the pro rata share of such items up to and including the day before closing, and Purchaser shall pay the pro rata share of such items beginning on the day of closing.

My first thought was also "hey, buddy, extract and keep it." But it looks like you may be mostly on the hook for it. Doesn't mean you can't negotiate, though.

I mean, you're in a dual agency situation, so you MUST have SOMEONE in your corner looking out for your interests, right?

That was my second thought. And also to research the $ per gallon at, say, the lowest cost within the last year, which IMO is the maximum you should agree to pay.

FWIW, we did not pay for the oil in the tank, and it was never even mentioned. But I'm in South Philly, and jessamyn is in Vermont, so she's a better source than me for "typical."
posted by desuetude at 6:33 PM on June 22, 2009

NYS residential real estate legal assistant here. Out of the hundreds of closings I've done, I've had maybe three where there was an oil/gas tank being used on the property, and the buyer *always* paid for the unused portion.

How do you pro-rate oil?

You have someone come in and measure how much is left in the tank.
posted by Lucinda at 7:53 PM on June 22, 2009

It may be customary, but the situation really does vary based on other details in the P&S. We bought our house 'as-is' forgoing a home inspection (NOT recommended, we did so based on unique timing circumstances and because both my wife and I are registered architects who were comfortable with what to look for on this property), and including numerous items on property such as appliances, some random outdoor furniture, about half a face cord of wood, etc. Not only did the sellers include the fuel oil in what was being transferred to us, but also agreed to do so with a full tank so that there was no dispute as to the quantity.

With that said, I personally wouldn't let half a tank of oil blow up the deal. But I would ask to be shown very clearly that it was addressed in the paperwork already in hand or expect the right to negotiate it, particularly the quantity and value you are purchasing.
posted by meinvt at 8:11 PM on June 22, 2009

Flood writes "To require the seller to remove the fuel is insane."

True, and a big hassle.

Flood writes "It is ten times more difficult and costly to pump a tank dry, then it is to fill the tank up." "I doubt the local fuel distributor even has a pump to do it."

It's actually pretty easy, the pumps on standard oil trucks can do it. However you need to find someone with a waste tank because it is kind of risky to pump that oil into a clean tank as you never know what kind of contaminates and crud may be in the tank.

Having said that I've emptied lots of tanks with nothing more than an empty tank and a length of vacuum hose. You need two pieces. The first hose you want to be fairly long as it needs to go from the tank on the back of your truck (a standard fuel oil external tank is fine) to the tank you are trying to drain. This piecs hooks onto the dip tube or bottom bung of both tanks. The second piece goes from the top of the tank on your truck over to a source of manifold vacuum. Most modern vehicles have a handy source of vacuum right on the intake manifold. Once you have the hoses hooked up you start your truck and let it idle. The few inches of vacuum from your engine will draw the oil up out of the tank and into the tank on your truck. Oh ya, the tank on your truck needs to hold a vacuum so all the bungs and ports need to be sealed. This will take much longer than with the gear pump on an oil truck but hey, you didn't have to buy much. I once heated my trailer for free for a whole winter for nothing by removing the oil and tank from places converting to LPG. Sometimes I got paid to take the stuff away. And I got paid for the steel tanks at the scrap yard.
posted by Mitheral at 8:13 PM on June 22, 2009

At the property management company I work for, when house renters leave, we arrange to have a tank dip done at the end of their last month, and reimburse them for any oil remaining in the tank.

We copy the dip slip with a cover letter and ask the incoming tenants to pay us for it.

At the end of their tenancy, the tank is dipped again, and in turn, they are reimbursed for the oil remaining in the tank that they paid for.

This is in Canada.
posted by Savannah at 9:05 PM on June 22, 2009

You're talking about what, a couple of hundred bucks at most? On top of the cost of a house?

Telling the owner to pump the oil out is major-league douchebaggery.

Unless the guy is trying to screw you somehow, like by charging you the rate that he paid last winter or something that's now way above market, just pay for it. Unless you were planning on removing the oil tank and switching to some other heat source, you're going to buy it anyway.

If you want to dicker you can negotiate these things, but assuming the seller is chipping in towards closing costs (typical right now to do 3% or so), he might balk and lower his closing cost contribution, and I guarantee you he'll lower it by more than the cost of the fuel just to reward you for making a stink. If you did want to negotiate it, what I'd do is specify that the seller will deliver the house to you with the tank filled, not empty. (Some boilerplate offer letters I've seen actually specify this; all fuel tanks topped off, etc.) That avoids having to measure the amount of oil in the tank and makes more sense to me than trying to pro-rate it.
posted by Kadin2048 at 11:52 PM on June 22, 2009