A good neighborhood for me in Philly?
June 10, 2009 6:25 PM Subscribe
What's a good neighborhood for in Philly for me to move to? (Reqs inside.)
I'll be looking to move to Philly for the summer (possibly longer) and I'm not sure what neighborhood would be a good fit for me.
I looked through the previous Philly questions, but I'm personally looking for:
a) a rental in the ballpark of $500/month
b) a good neighborhood for someone in her 20s who's pretty social and likes to go out?
Any ideas?
TIA.
I'll be looking to move to Philly for the summer (possibly longer) and I'm not sure what neighborhood would be a good fit for me.
I looked through the previous Philly questions, but I'm personally looking for:
a) a rental in the ballpark of $500/month
b) a good neighborhood for someone in her 20s who's pretty social and likes to go out?
Any ideas?
TIA.
Shares in South Philly, Fishtown around Girard, West Philly around 44th and Baltimore would all fit the bill. It depends on the kind of places you like to go when you like to go out, each of these neighborhoods have their own flavor. You should visit and hang out in each for a minute to see which you like the best. If you're the kind of person who needs to be in Center City you are looking at having very little space for the money you can spend.
posted by The Straightener at 6:48 PM on June 10, 2009
posted by The Straightener at 6:48 PM on June 10, 2009
I hated South Philly. It has the lowest tolerance for weirdness (or people of color) of anywhere in the city. There are higher probabilities of random acts of violence elsewhere in the city, but South Philly was the only place I ever felt fear of violence inspired by bigotry--and I'm just a weird white dude.
Queen Village is a sort of split-the-difference between Center City and South Philly... I lived in the Italian Market, in a house, with the Worst Landlord Evar, for $1000/mo. That was pretty decent. I didn't feel like I was going to get beat up, even if people did give me shit for months (until they realized I was a local).
But, if I were to move back to Philly, and only wanted to pay $500/mo in rent, I'd get a roommate and move to the outskirts of University City. I also like Fishtown and the Northern Liberties. We lived at 12th and Green for a very long time, which was sort of a mixed bag--decent enough, cheap enough, but with plenty of gang-related shootings on our corner. That actually should be better now, since somebody bought out the shitty, horrible bar that nucleated the violence and, two days before we drove out of town forever, started turning it into a gastropub.
There's no neighborhood in Philly with $500/mo rent that you actually want to live in. Fuck, even the people living in those neighborhoods pretty much don't want to live there. You can sometimes find apartments for rent that cheap in decent neighborhoods, but they're universally tiny or otherwise undesirable.
(Like Jon, I'm incredibly happy that we got out of Philly. And, on occasion, I get all sentimental and nostalgic for it. And hey, I was from Missouri, and I wanted the East Coast Urban Experience. I got it. But, honestly, most of that city is a godforsaken war zone.)
posted by Netzapper at 6:53 PM on June 10, 2009
Queen Village is a sort of split-the-difference between Center City and South Philly... I lived in the Italian Market, in a house, with the Worst Landlord Evar, for $1000/mo. That was pretty decent. I didn't feel like I was going to get beat up, even if people did give me shit for months (until they realized I was a local).
But, if I were to move back to Philly, and only wanted to pay $500/mo in rent, I'd get a roommate and move to the outskirts of University City. I also like Fishtown and the Northern Liberties. We lived at 12th and Green for a very long time, which was sort of a mixed bag--decent enough, cheap enough, but with plenty of gang-related shootings on our corner. That actually should be better now, since somebody bought out the shitty, horrible bar that nucleated the violence and, two days before we drove out of town forever, started turning it into a gastropub.
There's no neighborhood in Philly with $500/mo rent that you actually want to live in. Fuck, even the people living in those neighborhoods pretty much don't want to live there. You can sometimes find apartments for rent that cheap in decent neighborhoods, but they're universally tiny or otherwise undesirable.
(Like Jon, I'm incredibly happy that we got out of Philly. And, on occasion, I get all sentimental and nostalgic for it. And hey, I was from Missouri, and I wanted the East Coast Urban Experience. I got it. But, honestly, most of that city is a godforsaken war zone.)
posted by Netzapper at 6:53 PM on June 10, 2009
There's no neighborhood in Philly with $500/mo rent that you actually want to live in.
Please stop. You don't know as much about this city as you think you do.
posted by The Straightener at 6:58 PM on June 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Please stop. You don't know as much about this city as you think you do.
posted by The Straightener at 6:58 PM on June 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
But, honestly, most of that city is a godforsaken war zone.
Speaking as someone who's lived in both St Louis and Philly: St Louis, Missouri is much, much worse than Philly ever thought about being (as in murder capital bad). If you think Missouri is better somehow you must not be talking about the cities in that state. Stay in the suburbs.
posted by overhauser at 7:12 PM on June 10, 2009
Speaking as someone who's lived in both St Louis and Philly: St Louis, Missouri is much, much worse than Philly ever thought about being (as in murder capital bad). If you think Missouri is better somehow you must not be talking about the cities in that state. Stay in the suburbs.
posted by overhauser at 7:12 PM on June 10, 2009
Best answer: About housing: I'd say you have to find a share. There are tons available from Penn student looking to sublease for the summers. I wouldn't call University City the best place for a post-college woman to live, but I'd think you'll see some in center city, which is. Try this link.
posted by overhauser at 7:17 PM on June 10, 2009
posted by overhauser at 7:17 PM on June 10, 2009
Best answer: Actually, University City is pretty excellent in the summer while there's no students around, quiet, tons of parking, easy seating in restaurants and coffee shops, but you don't want to be there beyond the end of August.
posted by The Straightener at 7:20 PM on June 10, 2009
posted by The Straightener at 7:20 PM on June 10, 2009
Speaking as someone who's lived in both St Louis and Philly: St Louis, Missouri is much, much worse than Philly ever thought about being (as in murder capital bad). If you think Missouri is better somehow you must not be talking about the cities in that state. Stay in the suburbs.
Oh, no, it's true. Philly is much better than St. Louis. It's better than Camden, better than Baltimore, about the same as DC. I was just saying that I moved to Philly to get the urban experience. And I did. And it was awesome. And now I'm glad I live out in the country.
But, I'm not going to step down from my claim that about 60% of the actual land area of Philadelphia is not suitable for human habitation. And a lot of the part that is fit for human habitation is racially segregated, and people of the wrong ethnic background are not made to feel especially welcome. I'm not claiming that violence is especially likely, but I did spend a couple years with people shouting all manner of racial abuse at me. Again, after they realized I was a local, this eased up... but, you have to go through the hazing process, I guess.
Basically, in contrast to thriving cities like NYC or Seattle, Philadelphia felt like pockets of civilization surrounded by dilapidated battlegrounds. I'm not saying that you're going to get shot if you wander down the wrong street, but I am saying that I wouldn't want to live in most of it.
Oh, and OP, one area I forgot that I do consider livable: just about anything around Fairmount Park (the proper one, since all parks in Philly are technically Fairmount Park). But, while this area is within the city limits, it's very heavily slanted toward residential and always felt like suburbs to me. You also have to travel pretty far to do many things.
posted by Netzapper at 8:11 PM on June 10, 2009
Oh, no, it's true. Philly is much better than St. Louis. It's better than Camden, better than Baltimore, about the same as DC. I was just saying that I moved to Philly to get the urban experience. And I did. And it was awesome. And now I'm glad I live out in the country.
But, I'm not going to step down from my claim that about 60% of the actual land area of Philadelphia is not suitable for human habitation. And a lot of the part that is fit for human habitation is racially segregated, and people of the wrong ethnic background are not made to feel especially welcome. I'm not claiming that violence is especially likely, but I did spend a couple years with people shouting all manner of racial abuse at me. Again, after they realized I was a local, this eased up... but, you have to go through the hazing process, I guess.
Basically, in contrast to thriving cities like NYC or Seattle, Philadelphia felt like pockets of civilization surrounded by dilapidated battlegrounds. I'm not saying that you're going to get shot if you wander down the wrong street, but I am saying that I wouldn't want to live in most of it.
Oh, and OP, one area I forgot that I do consider livable: just about anything around Fairmount Park (the proper one, since all parks in Philly are technically Fairmount Park). But, while this area is within the city limits, it's very heavily slanted toward residential and always felt like suburbs to me. You also have to travel pretty far to do many things.
posted by Netzapper at 8:11 PM on June 10, 2009
But, honestly, most of that city is a godforsaken war zone.
Spoken like someone who's not familiar with Baltimore.
/has a few clients in Philly . . . loves Northern Liberties, btw.</SMALL
posted by CommonSense at 8:36 PM on June 10, 2009
Spoken like someone who's not familiar with Baltimore.
/has a few clients in Philly . . . loves Northern Liberties, btw.</SMALL
posted by CommonSense at 8:36 PM on June 10, 2009
Full Disclosure:
Netzapper is a weird dude. I've seen the kilt. ;)
Just because people shout at him, it doesn't mean they're going to shout at you too.
I've lived in the same neighborhoods as him and nobody yelled at me.
You'll love South Philly. Tacos, Vietnamese Food, Italian Market, cool kids at the bars, no frat kids. It's a good spot.
It's all love, dude!
posted by Jon-o at 8:41 PM on June 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Netzapper is a weird dude. I've seen the kilt. ;)
Just because people shout at him, it doesn't mean they're going to shout at you too.
I've lived in the same neighborhoods as him and nobody yelled at me.
You'll love South Philly. Tacos, Vietnamese Food, Italian Market, cool kids at the bars, no frat kids. It's a good spot.
It's all love, dude!
posted by Jon-o at 8:41 PM on June 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I live in Philly and grew up here and moved back here after a hiatus in Chicago/DC.. and I love it. I think you could do Center City with a roommate (and be near all of the bars and stuff) and/or West Philly. I have a friend out at 49th and Pine-ish who pays in your range -- it's a great neighborhood, but I would cab it home at like 1AM, more because there just isn't a lot of foot traffic.
South Philly is fantastic -- you might want to look into Bella Vista and Queen Village, both of which are south of Center City but north of South Philly proper. The Italian Market is a great area and the city is pretty easy to get around.
posted by melodykramer at 8:42 PM on June 10, 2009
South Philly is fantastic -- you might want to look into Bella Vista and Queen Village, both of which are south of Center City but north of South Philly proper. The Italian Market is a great area and the city is pretty easy to get around.
posted by melodykramer at 8:42 PM on June 10, 2009
Best answer: I'm not sure if you can find anything in Center City for $500 / person... Center City roughly being the area between the two rivers (Delaware on the east, Schuylkill on the west), south of Spring Garden St and north of... say Washington Avenue.
That's basically the area I was looking at about 3 years ago, and I was pretty happy to land the apartment I'm in now, which is a small but decent 2 bedroom for $1300, and our landlord hasn't raised the rent.
I'd recommend, like melodykramer, Bella Vista & Queen Village. Technically they're within the area I mentioned before (north of Washington) but if you're likely to find something in your price range anywhere, it'll probably be there. It puts you within good reach of the Old City bar / restaurant nexus.
Somewhat also depends on what you're going to be doing here this summer (work, school, hanging out in coffeeshops?) and what "type" of person you are. Bella Vista & Queen Village are less quirky, less hip than West Philly, which has more communes, anarchists, progressive-ish stuff going on. But that's just all my subjective read on things, mostly based on the people I know.
posted by polexa at 10:05 PM on June 10, 2009
That's basically the area I was looking at about 3 years ago, and I was pretty happy to land the apartment I'm in now, which is a small but decent 2 bedroom for $1300, and our landlord hasn't raised the rent.
I'd recommend, like melodykramer, Bella Vista & Queen Village. Technically they're within the area I mentioned before (north of Washington) but if you're likely to find something in your price range anywhere, it'll probably be there. It puts you within good reach of the Old City bar / restaurant nexus.
Somewhat also depends on what you're going to be doing here this summer (work, school, hanging out in coffeeshops?) and what "type" of person you are. Bella Vista & Queen Village are less quirky, less hip than West Philly, which has more communes, anarchists, progressive-ish stuff going on. But that's just all my subjective read on things, mostly based on the people I know.
posted by polexa at 10:05 PM on June 10, 2009
Best answer: You could easily do $500/month in South Philly, if you're willing to shack up with someone else. A friend of mine in Philly rented out her spare room for around that, and she lived about two blocks away from a Broad St line train station (from which you can get to CC and, from there, out to West Philly via trolleys), and only a few more blocks away from all the cool stuff going on on Passyunk and the Italian Market. Lots of great food: Italian, Mexican, Thai, etc. Cheap living. Public transit. Can't go too far wrong with South Philly.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:12 PM on June 10, 2009
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:12 PM on June 10, 2009
Actually, University City is pretty excellent in the summer while there's no students around, quiet, tons of parking, easy seating in restaurants and coffee shops, but you don't want to be there beyond the end of August.
I've lived at 46th and Baltimore for three years now. (I'm a Penn grad student, but unlike many of my kind I stay in Philadelphia in the summer, in part because I like it here and in part because my family lives in the Philadelphia area.) I don't find those problems to be any worse in the summer than in the winter,
With the possible exception of parking, that is. I don't have a car.
I think the parts of UC that would really be a problem for the OP are the parts immediately west of the Penn campus.
I hated South Philly. It has the lowest tolerance for weirdness (or people of color) of anywhere in the city.
"South Philly" is a big place. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that it's a bit too big to generalize about. Parts of South Philly seem to be where all the Weird Kids that got priced out of University City ended up going. (But it's possible that their new neighbors don't like them.)
I also agree with the Fishtown suggestions but I don't know much about Fishtown.
posted by madcaptenor at 1:27 AM on June 11, 2009
I've lived at 46th and Baltimore for three years now. (I'm a Penn grad student, but unlike many of my kind I stay in Philadelphia in the summer, in part because I like it here and in part because my family lives in the Philadelphia area.) I don't find those problems to be any worse in the summer than in the winter,
With the possible exception of parking, that is. I don't have a car.
I think the parts of UC that would really be a problem for the OP are the parts immediately west of the Penn campus.
I hated South Philly. It has the lowest tolerance for weirdness (or people of color) of anywhere in the city.
"South Philly" is a big place. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that it's a bit too big to generalize about. Parts of South Philly seem to be where all the Weird Kids that got priced out of University City ended up going. (But it's possible that their new neighbors don't like them.)
I also agree with the Fishtown suggestions but I don't know much about Fishtown.
posted by madcaptenor at 1:27 AM on June 11, 2009
"South Philly" is a big place. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that it's a bit too big to generalize about. Parts of South Philly seem to be where all the Weird Kids that got priced out of University City ended up going. (But it's possible that their new neighbors don't like them.)
Yeah, there are pockets of weird that are tolerated. But there's strength in numbers. Moving to those blocks is one thing. But, if people are saying "Move to South Philly, you'll love it", they're generalizing just as much as I am.
And then there's South Philly's inherent, uh, charms... for instance, several unrelated South Philly natives have explained to me that they would never have trees planted on their streets because "trees are dirty". They didn't say this like they didn't want to clean up leaves in the fall, they said it the same way normal people say "cockroaches are dirty". And, indeed, there are very few trees as compared to the rest of Philly. (Which means that South Philly is usually 1-3 degrees hotter in the summer than the rest of the city. My friends and I have done empirical testing on this front, although I admit that the lack of trees may not be the cause.)
Oh, and there are no roaches in South Philly, only "water bugs". Otherwise perfectly sane people will watch a roach scurry across their floor, note my discomfort, and reassure me by saying, "Oh, I know that looks like a roach, but it's a water bug. Harmless." 'Cause a rose by any other name is clearly a daffodil. (It's especially weird because, personally, I'd rather have roaches than toebiters scurrying around my kitchen.)
Mind you, my prejudice comes from living there. I really, really wanted to like it. I lived in Center City for a year, and then was like, "Okay, I should move somewhere with a strong community vibe and that's much cheaper." I had all these friends in South Philly who told me I'd love it, and visiting, it looked pretty neat and neighborly. And indeed it was really cheap, and there was a very strong community... just that it was neither welcoming nor, in my opinion, attractive once I saw it up close.
So then I moved to 12th and Green, and after the hazing stopped and the neighbors recognized me, I got everything I was looking for. I smoked blunts with the same people who'd screamed "go home, cracker" for the first year. We'd sit on the stoop and smoke and yell "go home, cracker" at the yuppies gentrifying our funky little hood. I'd still be there today, if I hadn't gotten sick of the city as a whole.
Your mileage may vary. But Philly is a unique place, and many neighborhoods just aren't welcoming of outsiders. You don't have to stay an outsider, but six months really isn't long enough.
The OP would get better answers if she'd give some demographic information. What does she mean by "going out"? Going to have a pint at the Royal Tavern is very different from dancing all night at Pure. Is it alright if "going out" includes the (most useless) subway (ever), a bus or a $12 taxi ride? How about regional rail?
posted by Netzapper at 2:39 AM on June 11, 2009
Yeah, there are pockets of weird that are tolerated. But there's strength in numbers. Moving to those blocks is one thing. But, if people are saying "Move to South Philly, you'll love it", they're generalizing just as much as I am.
And then there's South Philly's inherent, uh, charms... for instance, several unrelated South Philly natives have explained to me that they would never have trees planted on their streets because "trees are dirty". They didn't say this like they didn't want to clean up leaves in the fall, they said it the same way normal people say "cockroaches are dirty". And, indeed, there are very few trees as compared to the rest of Philly. (Which means that South Philly is usually 1-3 degrees hotter in the summer than the rest of the city. My friends and I have done empirical testing on this front, although I admit that the lack of trees may not be the cause.)
Oh, and there are no roaches in South Philly, only "water bugs". Otherwise perfectly sane people will watch a roach scurry across their floor, note my discomfort, and reassure me by saying, "Oh, I know that looks like a roach, but it's a water bug. Harmless." 'Cause a rose by any other name is clearly a daffodil. (It's especially weird because, personally, I'd rather have roaches than toebiters scurrying around my kitchen.)
Mind you, my prejudice comes from living there. I really, really wanted to like it. I lived in Center City for a year, and then was like, "Okay, I should move somewhere with a strong community vibe and that's much cheaper." I had all these friends in South Philly who told me I'd love it, and visiting, it looked pretty neat and neighborly. And indeed it was really cheap, and there was a very strong community... just that it was neither welcoming nor, in my opinion, attractive once I saw it up close.
So then I moved to 12th and Green, and after the hazing stopped and the neighbors recognized me, I got everything I was looking for. I smoked blunts with the same people who'd screamed "go home, cracker" for the first year. We'd sit on the stoop and smoke and yell "go home, cracker" at the yuppies gentrifying our funky little hood. I'd still be there today, if I hadn't gotten sick of the city as a whole.
Your mileage may vary. But Philly is a unique place, and many neighborhoods just aren't welcoming of outsiders. You don't have to stay an outsider, but six months really isn't long enough.
The OP would get better answers if she'd give some demographic information. What does she mean by "going out"? Going to have a pint at the Royal Tavern is very different from dancing all night at Pure. Is it alright if "going out" includes the (most useless) subway (ever), a bus or a $12 taxi ride? How about regional rail?
posted by Netzapper at 2:39 AM on June 11, 2009
Netzapper, your information is patently false. Practically every old punker in this city lives in south of Washington Avenue, and the area is full of freak havens like the Gleaners and Benna's among a million others where plenty of weird people congregate in perfectly peaceful settings, unharrassed by these awful neighbors you felt assaulted by. I was standing on the corner of Broad and Snyder just yesterday and thinking to myself, I have never really seen a corner in another American city where blacks, Latinos, whites and Asians mingle so seamlessly. It's not exactly what you would call and idyllic setting, as most of these people are also poor, but again it's far more peaceful and less dysfunctional than you describe.
Also, you have no authority whatsoever to speak to Philadelphia's "uninhabitable" areas as you don't know shit about them. 12th and Green ain't that bad, nor was it at any point after the Richard Allen homes were torn down. You never went to visit the "uninhabitable areas", nor did you spend any appreciable amount of time there working or serving thoise community so I don't know where your presumed authority stems from. I'm in those communities every day and dedicate my life to making them a little better. They are totally habitable for many, in fact full of vibrancy, great restaurants, amazing people, normal mostly WORKING people who are just trying to raise families and have decent lives. Again, this goes back to a set of racial presumptions often made on Metafilter based on a knowledge of these communities that is limited to episodes of the Wire and Wu Tang albums. There was a Metatalk thread about it recently, look it up. But your assumption that broad swaths of this city are gross and full of icky people that scare you is unfortunate, and yes, it's probably better that you left because honestly it doesn't seem that you were interested in engaging much of the city beyond very small sections of certain "more acceptable" neighborhoods (that were still gross!) and a select few restaurants and bars.
Look, man, I lived in NYC for five years and left in 2002. You don't see me on the NYC AskMe threads telling people what NYC is all about because that's better left to someone who is still there right now, and has been there longer than I was. I lived in Chicago before that, went to college there, but don't jump in Chicago AskMe threads telling them what's up like people who spent a couple years at Penn and then peaced out do in the Philly threads.
The OP didn't ask for your extensive editorializing on the awfulness of Philly. How about you give her a chance to move here and come to her own conclusions, rather than shitting all over the city and coming off like you're the Official Authority. If you let her, the OP may come to love it like the rest of us who do, so how about you let us help her out, okay?
posted by The Straightener at 4:14 AM on June 11, 2009 [3 favorites]
Also, you have no authority whatsoever to speak to Philadelphia's "uninhabitable" areas as you don't know shit about them. 12th and Green ain't that bad, nor was it at any point after the Richard Allen homes were torn down. You never went to visit the "uninhabitable areas", nor did you spend any appreciable amount of time there working or serving thoise community so I don't know where your presumed authority stems from. I'm in those communities every day and dedicate my life to making them a little better. They are totally habitable for many, in fact full of vibrancy, great restaurants, amazing people, normal mostly WORKING people who are just trying to raise families and have decent lives. Again, this goes back to a set of racial presumptions often made on Metafilter based on a knowledge of these communities that is limited to episodes of the Wire and Wu Tang albums. There was a Metatalk thread about it recently, look it up. But your assumption that broad swaths of this city are gross and full of icky people that scare you is unfortunate, and yes, it's probably better that you left because honestly it doesn't seem that you were interested in engaging much of the city beyond very small sections of certain "more acceptable" neighborhoods (that were still gross!) and a select few restaurants and bars.
Look, man, I lived in NYC for five years and left in 2002. You don't see me on the NYC AskMe threads telling people what NYC is all about because that's better left to someone who is still there right now, and has been there longer than I was. I lived in Chicago before that, went to college there, but don't jump in Chicago AskMe threads telling them what's up like people who spent a couple years at Penn and then peaced out do in the Philly threads.
The OP didn't ask for your extensive editorializing on the awfulness of Philly. How about you give her a chance to move here and come to her own conclusions, rather than shitting all over the city and coming off like you're the Official Authority. If you let her, the OP may come to love it like the rest of us who do, so how about you let us help her out, okay?
posted by The Straightener at 4:14 AM on June 11, 2009 [3 favorites]
South Philly was my favorite.
posted by Jon-o at 9:38 PM
Me too. I've lived in Northern Liberties, Old City, Fishtown, Queen Village, among other places.
I now own a house in what they call East Passyunk Crossing, but which is pretty much around the area that Jon-o describes. Plenty of places to eat, drink and hang out. Convenient to public transportation. I'm happy here.
I also know a few single woman in their 20s that live in the same area, three of whom bought homes here.
South Philadelphia! Come check us out!
(we're still working on the catchphrase)
posted by orme at 4:53 AM on June 11, 2009
posted by Jon-o at 9:38 PM
Me too. I've lived in Northern Liberties, Old City, Fishtown, Queen Village, among other places.
I now own a house in what they call East Passyunk Crossing, but which is pretty much around the area that Jon-o describes. Plenty of places to eat, drink and hang out. Convenient to public transportation. I'm happy here.
I also know a few single woman in their 20s that live in the same area, three of whom bought homes here.
South Philadelphia! Come check us out!
(we're still working on the catchphrase)
posted by orme at 4:53 AM on June 11, 2009
(minor derail, is there another Green Street? The one I used to live on was up near Spring Garden, not in South Philly.)
posted by polexa at 7:29 AM on June 11, 2009
posted by polexa at 7:29 AM on June 11, 2009
There is Green Street near Spring Garden, and there is Greene Street that runs the length of Germantown and Mount Airy before dead ending at Allens Lane in Chestnut Hill. There is no Green Street in South Philly, Netzapper was referencing two separate harrowing neighborhood experiences the City of Philadelphia inflicted on him.
posted by The Straightener at 7:48 AM on June 11, 2009
posted by The Straightener at 7:48 AM on June 11, 2009
Best answer: I used to live in South Philly, near 5th and Tasker. I lived with one other person and my rent was considerably less than $500/month. There are lots of cool places to go in South Philly, but this place was a dump and there were multiple acts of violence on my block in the year that I lived there. That said, my car was never broken into and I never felt particularly threatened. There are much nicer parts of South Philly though.
I currently live in the Fairmount/Art Museum area. I share a rowhome with three other people and my rent is still less than $500/month, but more expensive than my old place. It's much cleaner and more pleasant than my last place. You can walk to Center City in 20-30 minutes. There are lots of bars and restaurants within easy walking distance. I'd recommend it.
posted by ludwig_van at 9:16 AM on June 11, 2009
I currently live in the Fairmount/Art Museum area. I share a rowhome with three other people and my rent is still less than $500/month, but more expensive than my old place. It's much cleaner and more pleasant than my last place. You can walk to Center City in 20-30 minutes. There are lots of bars and restaurants within easy walking distance. I'd recommend it.
posted by ludwig_van at 9:16 AM on June 11, 2009
Netzapper, honey, since you had bad experiences in South Philly and admittedly hate it, and don't even live here anymore, having earned your "urban experience" card, possibly you're not really the best person to comment repeatedly regarding recommendations to someone who actually wants to live here? I just deleted a whole big screed in the interest of not derailing, but please don't bitch about racism and segregation (which is MUCH worse in Baltimore and DC) and then say stuff like "I'm not going to step down from my claim that about 60% of the actual land area of Philadelphia is not suitable for human habitation," which could be perceived as having a little eau de racism whiff about it.
Nthing what The Straightener said, all the old punks pretty much live in my neighborhood in South Philly, which the realtors call "Passyunk Square" but the rest of us would more likely call "East Passyunk" and "below the Italian Market." Don't forget Connie's Ric Rac on the list of hangouts. But it would be helpful to know what kind of going out you're seeking.
The nice thing about South Philly is that from most of it, it's a walkable, and safely walkable, distance to Center City. The problem with Fishtown/Liberties is that there's a big dead zone between it and Center City that makes the walk less practical.
That said, it'll be a tough to find a place for $500 at this point. The area has exploded in popularity in the last couple of years. But it's possible.
My only warning is to avoid 4th and 5th streets in South Philly. There's decent-looking cheap apartments in the vicinity of 5th and Tasker, but that corridor is notorious for muggings (and worse) at night. I'm pretty unflappable and do not confuse run-down for dangerous, but I won't walk through there alone at night.
posted by desuetude at 9:32 AM on June 11, 2009
Nthing what The Straightener said, all the old punks pretty much live in my neighborhood in South Philly, which the realtors call "Passyunk Square" but the rest of us would more likely call "East Passyunk" and "below the Italian Market." Don't forget Connie's Ric Rac on the list of hangouts. But it would be helpful to know what kind of going out you're seeking.
The nice thing about South Philly is that from most of it, it's a walkable, and safely walkable, distance to Center City. The problem with Fishtown/Liberties is that there's a big dead zone between it and Center City that makes the walk less practical.
That said, it'll be a tough to find a place for $500 at this point. The area has exploded in popularity in the last couple of years. But it's possible.
My only warning is to avoid 4th and 5th streets in South Philly. There's decent-looking cheap apartments in the vicinity of 5th and Tasker, but that corridor is notorious for muggings (and worse) at night. I'm pretty unflappable and do not confuse run-down for dangerous, but I won't walk through there alone at night.
posted by desuetude at 9:32 AM on June 11, 2009
I often describe Center City as the Disney World of American History. I operate within a very small bubble within my own personal theme-park. I live a couple blocks from City Hall on the edge of Chinatown. I only pay $850/mo, which I split with my roommate. I work on Rittenhouse Square, so I bounce between 11th and 20th, and from Vine to South, and I rarely have a reason to leave my cozy little bubble. Within my little sphere I can get everything from dim sum to fine dining, and I can catch movies, operas, bands, etc. Center City is really a lot of fun. But it's super-sanitized, so if you're looking for a kind of "when in Rome" experience, I hate to rag on my hood, but Center City isn't really your best option.
As everyone has said, the city is entirely affordable if you have a roommate - and you can find something within your budget in just about every neighborhood you might like to live in, from Society Hill to Camden.
So then the question is, what kind of experiences do you want to have? I agree that "likes going out" is too vague to really give you good info. So just a little more about your personality and we'll all know exactly where you should land to optimize your time here!
posted by greekphilosophy at 10:04 AM on June 11, 2009
As everyone has said, the city is entirely affordable if you have a roommate - and you can find something within your budget in just about every neighborhood you might like to live in, from Society Hill to Camden.
So then the question is, what kind of experiences do you want to have? I agree that "likes going out" is too vague to really give you good info. So just a little more about your personality and we'll all know exactly where you should land to optimize your time here!
posted by greekphilosophy at 10:04 AM on June 11, 2009
netzapper is full of shit, to be blunt. pretty much everything he posted is wrong. i mean "no trees" for cying out loud there are trees everywhere! without getting up from where i'm sitting now i can see 4 trees BiG ones. "highest probablity of violence" um have you heard of south-west philly? under the trestle? K&A? "war zone" "segregated" "most useless subway ever" (clearly you've never been to LA) i don't even know where to begin with this shit. so ignore all of it.
i'm tempted to belive that this dude has never even been to philadelphia.
for 5 hundreds you can get a place anywhere (whith a roomate) or a small place on your own in many neghiborhoods. south phily is the best balance of social activites, food, accessability, etc. i suggest landing east of broad between washington and snyder. around passyunk is good.
oh and get a bike. parking is for suckers.
posted by swbarrett at 10:09 AM on June 11, 2009
i'm tempted to belive that this dude has never even been to philadelphia.
for 5 hundreds you can get a place anywhere (whith a roomate) or a small place on your own in many neghiborhoods. south phily is the best balance of social activites, food, accessability, etc. i suggest landing east of broad between washington and snyder. around passyunk is good.
oh and get a bike. parking is for suckers.
posted by swbarrett at 10:09 AM on June 11, 2009
it's pretty easy to get into Center City when all your friends in South Philly are all, "Wahh wahh, why don't you ever go West of the Schuylkill?"
Or, you know, east of the Skookul.
posted by Pax at 10:12 AM on June 11, 2009
Or, you know, east of the Skookul.
posted by Pax at 10:12 AM on June 11, 2009
i'm tempted to belive that this dude has never even been to philadelphia.
I lived there for almost a decade.
And I'm only responding to the character assassination here and then I'm gone:
1) Overall, I liked my experience in the city. I enjoyed my time there. I liked my neighbors on Green street. I got along famously with them after they realized I lived there and wasn't going anywhere. I didn't say not to move to Philly, just that the OP shouldn't indiscriminately assume that all places in Philly were equal.
2) I explored much of the city. On foot. Although I usually got real tired after walking for miles, and so I'd take the bus back. South Philly, North Philly, West Philly, Southwest Philly. Only part I didn't explore much of on foot was the Northeast.
3) After I got a car, I explored some more.
4) I'm not claiming that everybody living in the Badlands is a murderous thug. I'm claiming that most of the housing in the Badlands (and similar neighborhoods elsewhere in the city, of which there are more than a few) isn't something you'd want to inhabit.
5) I'm just reporting my experiences of South Philly, which I didn't like at all. Honestly, after I got sucker punched for being a faggot the second time, I didn't go south of Washington much. In fact, South Philly is the only place I experienced violence.
6) Green street wasn't as bad as elsewhere, admittedly. But, in the five years I lived there, I called the cops three times for shootings that had happened on the block. And on two other occasions, I came home to find the police tape from other shootings. And then there's the time that the owners of the Chinese store across the street spent the whole weekend scrubbing blood off their sidewalk and their walls.
And 12th and Green was my favorite residential neighborhood in the city. I loved it there. I even signed the fucking counter-petition to not shut down the bar that was the nucleus of the violence, because it was a neighborhood landmark: J&J's Trestle Inn. It sold out to some pub developer, though.
6) Perhaps I overstated my case. But, I don't think it changes the fact that Philadelphia is deeply dysfunctional in many ways. And my experience of it was that there were pockets of vibrancy surrounded mostly by dysfunction. If living in a corner with 1+ shootings a year is "not bad", then that gives you a pretty good idea of how the rest of the city is. You can't tell me a city that has roughly one murder a day (although I hear that's been dropping since its peak in 2007) is just peachy.
Anyway, I'm done. It's clear that other people's subjective experiences are more valid than my own. So, peace.
posted by Netzapper at 1:14 PM on June 11, 2009
I lived there for almost a decade.
And I'm only responding to the character assassination here and then I'm gone:
1) Overall, I liked my experience in the city. I enjoyed my time there. I liked my neighbors on Green street. I got along famously with them after they realized I lived there and wasn't going anywhere. I didn't say not to move to Philly, just that the OP shouldn't indiscriminately assume that all places in Philly were equal.
2) I explored much of the city. On foot. Although I usually got real tired after walking for miles, and so I'd take the bus back. South Philly, North Philly, West Philly, Southwest Philly. Only part I didn't explore much of on foot was the Northeast.
3) After I got a car, I explored some more.
4) I'm not claiming that everybody living in the Badlands is a murderous thug. I'm claiming that most of the housing in the Badlands (and similar neighborhoods elsewhere in the city, of which there are more than a few) isn't something you'd want to inhabit.
5) I'm just reporting my experiences of South Philly, which I didn't like at all. Honestly, after I got sucker punched for being a faggot the second time, I didn't go south of Washington much. In fact, South Philly is the only place I experienced violence.
6) Green street wasn't as bad as elsewhere, admittedly. But, in the five years I lived there, I called the cops three times for shootings that had happened on the block. And on two other occasions, I came home to find the police tape from other shootings. And then there's the time that the owners of the Chinese store across the street spent the whole weekend scrubbing blood off their sidewalk and their walls.
And 12th and Green was my favorite residential neighborhood in the city. I loved it there. I even signed the fucking counter-petition to not shut down the bar that was the nucleus of the violence, because it was a neighborhood landmark: J&J's Trestle Inn. It sold out to some pub developer, though.
6) Perhaps I overstated my case. But, I don't think it changes the fact that Philadelphia is deeply dysfunctional in many ways. And my experience of it was that there were pockets of vibrancy surrounded mostly by dysfunction. If living in a corner with 1+ shootings a year is "not bad", then that gives you a pretty good idea of how the rest of the city is. You can't tell me a city that has roughly one murder a day (although I hear that's been dropping since its peak in 2007) is just peachy.
Anyway, I'm done. It's clear that other people's subjective experiences are more valid than my own. So, peace.
posted by Netzapper at 1:14 PM on June 11, 2009
parking is for suckers.
Only if you haven't developed the awesome parking wizard skill of making a space where there isn't one. In South Philly you can park on the curb, park in the crosswalk, park in front of a hydrant, park wherever. I parked a million different kinds of illegal in South Philly for YEARS and never got a single ticket. The City gave up on their street cleaning program in parts of South Philly because they couldn't enforce the parking restrictions.
It's an awesome sort of anarchy. Just don't shovel your car out when it snows, because some jerggoff will take your spot and you'll be forced to murder them.
Don't have any attachments to the exterior finish of your vehicle, and you'll be a parking master in a couple weeks. You'll be able to fit a Land Rover in a space the size of a Smart before you know it.
I'm starting to feel nostalgic!
posted by Jon-o at 1:59 PM on June 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
Only if you haven't developed the awesome parking wizard skill of making a space where there isn't one. In South Philly you can park on the curb, park in the crosswalk, park in front of a hydrant, park wherever. I parked a million different kinds of illegal in South Philly for YEARS and never got a single ticket. The City gave up on their street cleaning program in parts of South Philly because they couldn't enforce the parking restrictions.
It's an awesome sort of anarchy. Just don't shovel your car out when it snows, because some jerggoff will take your spot and you'll be forced to murder them.
Don't have any attachments to the exterior finish of your vehicle, and you'll be a parking master in a couple weeks. You'll be able to fit a Land Rover in a space the size of a Smart before you know it.
I'm starting to feel nostalgic!
posted by Jon-o at 1:59 PM on June 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks guys! I'm looking through the neighborhoods on Craigslist now. Just to answer your question, when I said "likes to go out" I basically meant: I like to go out and explore a lot around the city on my own or with other people when I get the chance, and I'd also like to live in a neighborhood that doesn't shut down at night, with some good coffeehouses, bars etc. to check out.
posted by twins named Lugubrious and Salubrious at 6:26 PM on June 11, 2009
posted by twins named Lugubrious and Salubrious at 6:26 PM on June 11, 2009
Let us know when you get in town and settled; we'll do a meetup and get you jumped in proper.
(I'll play the role of "I refuse to sell you this food until I've lectured on the proper way to make the intended dish." Who's going to do the makeshift saved parking space demo, the eye-rollingly bad pickup lines, the TMI during a business transaction?)
posted by desuetude at 9:27 PM on June 11, 2009
(I'll play the role of "I refuse to sell you this food until I've lectured on the proper way to make the intended dish." Who's going to do the makeshift saved parking space demo, the eye-rollingly bad pickup lines, the TMI during a business transaction?)
posted by desuetude at 9:27 PM on June 11, 2009
I'll do the "write you a ticket for having your trash out too early."
posted by Pax at 7:10 AM on June 12, 2009
posted by Pax at 7:10 AM on June 12, 2009
"parking is for suckers.
Only if you haven't developed the awesome parking wizard skill of making a space where there isn't one. In South Philly you can park on the curb, park in the crosswalk, park in front of a hydrant, park wherever. I parked a million different kinds of illegal in South Philly for YEARS and never got a single ticket. The City gave up on their street cleaning program in parts of South Philly because they couldn't enforce the parking restrictions."
mostly true. you had just better make sure your plates are local if you're gonna park "south philly style" otherwise you will get ticketed/towed
posted by swbarrett at 3:08 PM on June 13, 2009
Only if you haven't developed the awesome parking wizard skill of making a space where there isn't one. In South Philly you can park on the curb, park in the crosswalk, park in front of a hydrant, park wherever. I parked a million different kinds of illegal in South Philly for YEARS and never got a single ticket. The City gave up on their street cleaning program in parts of South Philly because they couldn't enforce the parking restrictions."
mostly true. you had just better make sure your plates are local if you're gonna park "south philly style" otherwise you will get ticketed/towed
posted by swbarrett at 3:08 PM on June 13, 2009
mostly true. you had just better make sure your plates are local if you're gonna park "south philly style" otherwise you will get ticketed/towed
True. When I finally moved my registration/plates to PA, it was just so gosh-darned coincidental (!) that suddenly the parking tickets for being in a two-hour parking zone for two hours and fifteen minutes or parking four inches too close to a hydrant or the corner just...didn't...happen anymore.
posted by desuetude at 6:53 AM on June 15, 2009
True. When I finally moved my registration/plates to PA, it was just so gosh-darned coincidental (!) that suddenly the parking tickets for being in a two-hour parking zone for two hours and fifteen minutes or parking four inches too close to a hydrant or the corner just...didn't...happen anymore.
posted by desuetude at 6:53 AM on June 15, 2009
I missed most of the action on the thread, but a couple of clarifications based on my recent experience helping some friends find a place...
- "South Philly" as discussed in this thread pretty much means east of Broad and south of Washington Avenue. If you're looking for bars/coffeeshops/etc you probably don't want to live west of Broad and south of Washington (although there are some great neighborhoods there, there's not a ton going on)
- In South Philly, the closer you are to Passyunk Ave the better--that's where most of the Stuff to Do is.
- You probably also don't want to go any further south than Snyder--again, not because there's anything wrong with it but just because it's further from Stuff.
- I'd recommend getting a bike, but if you don't think you'll be up for it then keep your proximity to transportation in mind. Probably you'll mostly be needing/wanting to get to Center City, so the issue is getting north. There's a very reliable bus that runs up 11th St (the 23). I wouldn't count on the subway for anything.
- Bella Vista is the area north of Washington, east of 11th, and south of South St. It's a GREAT homebase for city-exploring...just a ten-minute walk north to Center City *and* a ten-minute walk south to Passyunk Ave bars and stuff, plus proximity to the Italian Market. You won't find a solo apartment on your own there for $500, but if you could find a cheap share then go for it--it's the neighborhood I live in and I love it.
- Craigslist search terms to use: Bella Vista, Italian Market (this will give you both apartments in Bella Vista and south of Washington), Passyunk.
posted by ethorson at 10:25 PM on June 18, 2009
- "South Philly" as discussed in this thread pretty much means east of Broad and south of Washington Avenue. If you're looking for bars/coffeeshops/etc you probably don't want to live west of Broad and south of Washington (although there are some great neighborhoods there, there's not a ton going on)
- In South Philly, the closer you are to Passyunk Ave the better--that's where most of the Stuff to Do is.
- You probably also don't want to go any further south than Snyder--again, not because there's anything wrong with it but just because it's further from Stuff.
- I'd recommend getting a bike, but if you don't think you'll be up for it then keep your proximity to transportation in mind. Probably you'll mostly be needing/wanting to get to Center City, so the issue is getting north. There's a very reliable bus that runs up 11th St (the 23). I wouldn't count on the subway for anything.
- Bella Vista is the area north of Washington, east of 11th, and south of South St. It's a GREAT homebase for city-exploring...just a ten-minute walk north to Center City *and* a ten-minute walk south to Passyunk Ave bars and stuff, plus proximity to the Italian Market. You won't find a solo apartment on your own there for $500, but if you could find a cheap share then go for it--it's the neighborhood I live in and I love it.
- Craigslist search terms to use: Bella Vista, Italian Market (this will give you both apartments in Bella Vista and south of Washington), Passyunk.
posted by ethorson at 10:25 PM on June 18, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
When I left Philly, I was glad and ready to leave, but I've come to really miss that neighborhood. I'm a Philly native who's lived all over that town: Center City, North Philly, and Queen Village but South Philly was my favorite.
posted by Jon-o at 6:38 PM on June 10, 2009