Why the change of heart Mr. Man?
May 31, 2009 7:22 AM   Subscribe

I have been a great tenant for 2 years. I keep the place clean, I am quiet, I take out everyone's recycling, pay my rent on time (occasionally early), pay for my own carpet cleaning once a year to name a few of my glowing tenancy points. I have not physically renewed my lease in that time, but it states on the lease that I need to state my intention to stay and my lease is automatically renewed. Great! This year my landlord wants me to physically resign lease. No problem. He put a letter in my mail box with the new lease info. Same as always, so I said I would be over to sign. But two days ago he decided to change the terms...

When I was in talks to take the place I was dealing with a woman in the rental office. I have several pets. Based on what they charge for pets I stated that unless we could wave those fees I would be unable to take the place. I offered to her to write up an addendum to my lease stating that I would pay out of pocket for any damages caused by the animals. She said she would ask the landlord but she thought I would be ok. This I have in writing (good thing I never delete my inbox).
When I asked her via phone before I sent the lease she said not to worry about it. If I was a good tenant and paid on time they wouldn't give me grief after I had been there for a while. Well she has since quit.
Fast forward to 2 days ago when I put in a repair request to change my a/c filter. My landlord did it himself. He saw that I have pets and now wants to charge me for them.
I live across from my rental office. I walk my dog on that street. I have run into my landlord with said dog. My cats sit in the window and watch the world go by. This can be seen from the rental office.
So why the change? Do I have any leg to stand on? I plan on speaking with him to see what can be done or agreed to. I will take the email from the woman who I had spoken with. I am guessing she never asked him.
What should I say to him? I really will have to move if he is going to up my rent and I have already been looking for new places just in case.
posted by MayNicholas to Home & Garden (23 answers total)
 
My guess is he's just trying to squeeze you for as much as he can. Let him know what a great tenant you are, that you cause no problems, always pay on time, clean up after yourself, etc. Gently remind him that not all tenants are like that. State that you would like to stay but will leave without hesitation if he raises the rent. I can't imagine that he'd be stupid enough to give up a guaranteed excellent tenant for the sake of an extra $50/month or whatever. Of course, I've only dealt with individual landlords, not large "rental management" companies, and have always been able to either negotiate down the price of my rent by doing extra chores around the property or convince the landlord that keeping a cat was no big deal. YMMV, but I do think that landlords place a premium on reliable tenants, so I can't imagine that your landlord wouldn't at least be willing to listen and work something out.
posted by billysumday at 7:29 AM on May 31, 2009


>Do I have any leg to stand on?

To do what? To force him to keep you on the same terms as before? No.

To persuade him that he should? Perhaps. At this point, it is still voluntary on both sides and any terms are up for negotiation.

The initial agreement is one thing. More persuasive would be the fact that the apartment is still in good shape after two years of living with the animals, assuming that that is true. The other positives that you cite are also helpful.

Perhaps offering an additional security deposit to guarantee the promise you have made to pay for any damage would move things forward.
posted by megatherium at 7:34 AM on May 31, 2009


Alternative theory is that they have reworked the lease agreement terms for new residents, and are adopting a "no pets ever" policy or, at least, a very strict $50 extra/pet. If other tenants see that you have pets, and do not have to pay an additional monthly fee for them, then it might cause friction in the complex and the landlord wouldn't have a strong leg to stand on when negotiating with new tenants. Perhaps you could convince him to "grandfather" you in somehow. Convince him in some way that you won't give away the secret terms of your deal to new tenants or other tenants who are considering getting a pet.
posted by billysumday at 7:34 AM on May 31, 2009


Response by poster: My best friend also rents from them. She has 2 cats and is not charged for them. That is why I asked if we could work something out in the beginning. I don't want to bring this up in the conversation with him because I would hate to get her charged for her pets too. There is not a 'no pets' policy- just a pay per pet per month policy and a $250 non-refundable pet deposit (which I think is absurd if you have well mannered pets such as myself).
And yes the apartment is in great shape for having said pets living there for 2 years. They have not done any damage save for puking here and there on the carpets which I promptly clean & have my carpets professionally cleaned once a year to keep then looking nice. It is an old building and my apartment looks way nicer than when I moved in.
The woman who works in the rental office now said he can be a softie so to work that angle. I am just wondering if you all have had any success in such situations or any other good points to bring up.
posted by MayNicholas at 7:45 AM on May 31, 2009


Also keep in mind, at least in a lot of areas, because of the economy rents are dropping and it is a renter's market. I know my own rent did not increase this year after $50-60 increases the past couple of years.
posted by norabarnacl3 at 7:59 AM on May 31, 2009


As a responsible dog owner who rents an apartment I have a tendency to agree. I keep things spic-and-span. As the child of a family in the rental business who has had to clean and repair apartments of responsible pet owners, I disagree. Pets cause damage to rental properties above and beyond their owners, period. If you're a pet owner, you tend not to notice or to care, but to a non-pet owner, or a landlord who has to repair this damage, it is pretty obvious. Regular cleanings and responsible ownership mitigate, but do not eliminate this damage, which includes pet odor, carpet damage (even when scrubbed the backing and padding are still a problem), hair & dander in the HVAC system (or under carpets and between trim and floor), and urine damage in the yard.

When a landlord charges for a non-refundable pet deposit, they are attempting to collect for necessary repairs from the tenets who cause this damage. Typically, a landlord will charge a refundable pet deposit (just in case you are not responsible) and use pet rent as a way of collecting. I prefer this way because the longer you have a tenant with a pet, the more damage, so if you charge $20 a month and they live there five years, you can't complain when you have to replace the flooring under the cat bed.

I think your best bet would be to invite your landlord into your apartment and show them what you do to keep it clean and how you maintenance your pet. He is likely to tell you the things that I've told you, but at least you'll make your point. Ask him what flexibility he has on changing the original terms. If he has none, ask him what the policy is for vacating. It's exceedingly unlikely, though, that you will find a landlord who won't charge you something for your pets.
posted by mrmojoflying at 8:05 AM on May 31, 2009 [2 favorites]


I would just look at this as the landlord's initial offer in an ongoing negotiation. And you probably have a pretty good position in a negotiation here, at least if you do not live in a place with a really tight rental market.

The good news in this negotiation is that you both have the same worst-case scenario: that you would move out. However, this scenario is significantly more costly to your landlord than it is to you.

You would just have to pay moving costs to a new place. Of course, you'd have to pay a deposit on a new place as well, but that's money you would eventually get back. And as norabarnacl3 says, rents are down everywhere, even in tight markets like DC and NYC. So moving for you, financially, actually would probably be a wash.

But I know you don't want to move, which is why it's lucky for you that the financial stakes are higher for your landlord. If he loses you as a tenant, he will have to find a new one. It's likely that the place would go unrented for at least a month if not more (I moved out of a great apartment in January that is still empty). Plus, your landlord would have to place classified ads, screen potential renters, and run the significant risk of finding someone who is not as good a tenant as you are.

So, don't be a jerk, but definitely understand that you probably have some leverage here. I would just go to your landlord and explain to him why you want to keep your terms as they are. Let him know, in a low-key way, that you really can't afford to pay the pet fees. Make sure to point out how great you are about paying your rent, etc.

Good luck!
posted by lunasol at 8:18 AM on May 31, 2009


I'll nth the comments about the rental market: I live in a building where, out of 24 apartments, only 14 are occupied. At least four of those empty apartments have been empty since January. The rents here are dropping but still the landlord can't fill those apartments. I'm close to NYC and I have friends who have re-negotiated their leases in their favor because the rental market is so tenant-friendly.
posted by LOLAttorney2009 at 8:45 AM on May 31, 2009


n+1th'ing the rental market concencus - we just got a place for 75% of last year's rental rate AND got the landlord to give us a 6 month recurring lease. Now is the time to renegotiate.
posted by datacenter refugee at 8:54 AM on May 31, 2009


Do you have an "option" to renew the lease on the same terms as before, or does your lease simply expire, renewing only if no one wants a change? I think such an option arrangement is common in commercial leases but I haven't heard of it being used in a residential context. Maybe your's is an exception.

If you have an option to renew (as in you can unilaterally decide to stay on the same terms), call a local tenant's association or fork over a few bucks for a lawyer. I dealt with a similar-ish pet situation and seem to remember that if a tenant openly keeps pets, after a certain time without action by the landlord keeping those specific pets becomes an implied term in the lease. I may be mis-remembering and things differ by jurisdiction...
posted by the christopher hundreds at 9:48 AM on May 31, 2009


(The lawyer is to research (or simply know and recite) the issue and write a letter that you can use if needed. Not to sic on the landlord. Yet.)
posted by the christopher hundreds at 9:50 AM on May 31, 2009


Don't go to war unless you're sure you have a reasonable chance of victory.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:08 AM on May 31, 2009


You catch more flies with honey. Appeal to the better angels of his nature.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:21 AM on May 31, 2009


a $250 non-refundable pet deposit (which I think is absurd if you have well mannered pets such as myself)

As well mannered as they mihgt be, they're still producing dander and hair. This means that, at the least, the landlord will have to have the carpets professionally cleaned, because his next tenant may have allergies.
posted by chrisamiller at 10:58 AM on May 31, 2009


Your present arrangement, even with the rent increase, sounds like a very good deal.

When you look at other apartments, be sure to mention that you have three-plus pets. In the areas I know (Philly, NJ, Boston, Houston), apartment complexes generally restrict the number of pets to two. Having three-plus pets might restrict your options or raise your rent more than you think.

From the landlord's perspective, the ideal tenant doesn't have pets. Certainly not three-plus pets. Times are not so tough that landlords are going to welcome you with open arms and charge nothing extra, for the reasons stated in this thread.

Also, consider that multiple-pet owners turn-off to pet-free, prospective tenants. Especially cats give off odors you might not realize invade surrounding areas, no matter how vigilant your cleaning. Combined with the pet residue in vents, walls, and carpet padding, neat-freak or allergic prospective tenants go elsewhere if a landlord neglects special cleaning measures when pet owners move out.

Finally, figure in the time and money it costs to pull off a move. Calculated as a cost spread over a year, it might be in your best interest to stay put and eat the rent increase.

Whether you stay or go, expect to pay something for having all those pets. I bet you can negotiate the increase with your landlord. Even big corporate-run complexes make individualized deals with tenants. Do not bring up your friend-- that would be really uncool and benefit neither of you. (If you haven't already guessed I'm a long-term apartment resident who's moved around a lot and anal to the extreme about smells)
posted by vincele at 11:40 AM on May 31, 2009


Your landlord is an employee of the apartment management company. His goal may be to avoid getting into trouble. Something from a higher authority might help reassure him there.

I might mention how many "for rent" signs I'd seen in the neighborhood, if that were true. The management company won't want the place to sit vacant. Your landlord won't want to have to show the place a hundred times before someone finally moves in.
posted by salvia at 2:23 PM on May 31, 2009


Response by poster: Well the landlord is the owner of my building (it is a family business where each sibling owns different buildings). And the other building they own next to mine has 4 units- only 1 is occupied.

I do see all of your points about the effects pets have on an apartment that I am oblivious to as a pet owner. I will say however that based on the condition of the place when I moved in, they don't care to clean up after the tenant moves out (nothing like scrubbing someone else's bathroom grime when you move in).

I will go in there sweet as honey and hope for the best. The reason I don't see having to move as a complete wash is that I found about 10 different places in my neighborhood that are $100-$150 cheaper a month. Even with having to pay for pets in a new place would be way cheaper. I should move based on that alone, but it is such a hassle that I would rather stay if I can.
posted by MayNicholas at 2:48 PM on May 31, 2009


mrmojoflying: When a landlord charges for a non-refundable pet deposit, they are attempting to collect for necessary repairs from the tenets [sic] who cause this damage.

For reference, when a landlord charges a “non-refundable deposit” it's not a deposit, since deposits are by definition refundable. It's a fee, and calling it a “non-refundable deposit” is misleading.
posted by koeselitz at 4:04 PM on May 31, 2009 [1 favorite]


Maybe he always thought you were being charged the extra fee and never thought about it until now. When he saw the pet in the place and the dirty air filter and the lease renewal, he put two and two together and rectified the mistake.
posted by gjc at 6:56 PM on May 31, 2009


How long had it been since the filter was changed, and what state was it in?

As a landlord who's had to pay to have the central AC taken apart to have the upper coils cleaned in 2 units, I'd hazard a guess that he saw plenty of hair in a clogged filter, along with probably some dirt/wear in the places or corners where the animals might be lying against the walls or doors. As a tenant, you might not think of it as a piece of equipment that costs hundreds to repair, thousands to replace, but that's exactly what it is. That, and you might not notice any pet smells as an outsider might. You might try promising to change the filter every 8 weeks, delivering the old one to their office, but if the fees/deposits are listed in the lease, sounds like he's in the clear to charge them and you're in the clear to move elsewhere if you can't negotiate terms you like in the lease.
posted by TuffAustin at 7:49 PM on May 31, 2009


Response by poster: As far as the filter is concerned- there is no possible way for me to change it on my own. I am short and have high ceilings (12 ft). The filter is set in the ceiling. This is why I need them to change my filter. The filter had not been changed since I move in- although I did ask them to change it before but they never came to do it.
posted by MayNicholas at 8:24 PM on May 31, 2009


Response by poster: ***Update***

Spoke to him today. He put on his stern face, but it only took me about 2 seconds to cry (planned on just being honest & friendly, but my nerves got the better of me). He was so nice! He agreed to let me keep my lease as is and would just write in the pets. No extra charges. I still offered after he said that to write an addendum about the pets but he said not to worry about it.

I have a great landlord!
posted by MayNicholas at 10:15 AM on June 2, 2009 [1 favorite]


Heh. Glad it turned out well for you.

(sidenote: that's why I have a lady that handles most of the financial interactions... weeping tenants just turn me to jelly)
posted by TuffAustin at 6:44 AM on June 10, 2009


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