How to go from friends to more
May 26, 2009 7:40 AM Subscribe
I have this friend; I'd like to see if she and I could become more than friends. Old story, or the oldest story? Wall of text ahead.
I want to preface this by saying that I know similar questions have been asked before (I saw them when I searched!), but I want to see if anyone has any insights unique to my situation. (Because it makes me feel good to think my situation is unique, even though it certainly isn't!)
So I have this friend who I'll call Beth. I've known Beth for roughly four years now, and up until about six months ago we were closer to acquaintances. About six months ago, we started talking pretty regularly online/through texting, and also occasionally on the phone. During this time, she was in a relationship, and although I occasionally thought to myself "man, I'd like to date Beth," I really didn't think anything else of it. I had no problem being just friends; additionally, I don't know very many people with whom I can carry on a long conversation with unless I've known them for a long time. With Beth, though, conversation flows very naturally, which is a welcome change of pace.
Last week, Beth broke up with her boyfriend. When she and I talked about it, she said the biggest reason was that she wants to be in a relationship, and he really didn't want anything long-term, and that became too much of an issue for her.
Now there's me. My last relationship, of three years, ended almost a year ago. Since then, I've been content with being single, but I've also always said that if the right situation came along, I'd give up the single life in an instant. Outside of one other girl, I really haven't looked for any kind of relationship.
So now I'm wondering. I get along so well with Beth, and I have no doubt that if we were to start dating long-term, we'd get along just as well, and probably better. She told me that she broke up with her boyfriend because he didn't want anything long-term; at this point, I'd probably only be interested in something long-term. On the other hand, I have no idea how Beth feels about me as anything more than a friend, and I don't want to make things weird between us. Furthermore, I have little to no adult dating experience; the aforementioned three-year relationship is my only post-high school relationship, and it was a long distance relationship to boot. I really don't want my lack of practical dating experience to make things weird, either.
So, hive mind: what are some good ways for me to find out if Beth is interested in more than a friendship with me? If the advice in this thread works out, you're all invited to our wedding.
I made this question anonymous because Beth is fairly internet-savvy. I can't imagine anyone needing to email me rather than leave his or her comments in this thread, but if so, you may send said comments to phadedender@gmail.com.
I want to preface this by saying that I know similar questions have been asked before (I saw them when I searched!), but I want to see if anyone has any insights unique to my situation. (Because it makes me feel good to think my situation is unique, even though it certainly isn't!)
So I have this friend who I'll call Beth. I've known Beth for roughly four years now, and up until about six months ago we were closer to acquaintances. About six months ago, we started talking pretty regularly online/through texting, and also occasionally on the phone. During this time, she was in a relationship, and although I occasionally thought to myself "man, I'd like to date Beth," I really didn't think anything else of it. I had no problem being just friends; additionally, I don't know very many people with whom I can carry on a long conversation with unless I've known them for a long time. With Beth, though, conversation flows very naturally, which is a welcome change of pace.
Last week, Beth broke up with her boyfriend. When she and I talked about it, she said the biggest reason was that she wants to be in a relationship, and he really didn't want anything long-term, and that became too much of an issue for her.
Now there's me. My last relationship, of three years, ended almost a year ago. Since then, I've been content with being single, but I've also always said that if the right situation came along, I'd give up the single life in an instant. Outside of one other girl, I really haven't looked for any kind of relationship.
So now I'm wondering. I get along so well with Beth, and I have no doubt that if we were to start dating long-term, we'd get along just as well, and probably better. She told me that she broke up with her boyfriend because he didn't want anything long-term; at this point, I'd probably only be interested in something long-term. On the other hand, I have no idea how Beth feels about me as anything more than a friend, and I don't want to make things weird between us. Furthermore, I have little to no adult dating experience; the aforementioned three-year relationship is my only post-high school relationship, and it was a long distance relationship to boot. I really don't want my lack of practical dating experience to make things weird, either.
So, hive mind: what are some good ways for me to find out if Beth is interested in more than a friendship with me? If the advice in this thread works out, you're all invited to our wedding.
I made this question anonymous because Beth is fairly internet-savvy. I can't imagine anyone needing to email me rather than leave his or her comments in this thread, but if so, you may send said comments to phadedender@gmail.com.
One of the best ways to find out what her real feelings are is to make sure you don't broach the subject in the aftermath of a breakup. Timing is everything, and this ain't the time.
posted by hermitosis at 7:45 AM on May 26, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by hermitosis at 7:45 AM on May 26, 2009 [2 favorites]
So she just ended a relationship of 4 years, 1 week ago? Or was the relationship 6 months long and not the entire time you've known her? It's hard to tell from your post ("during this time, she was in a relationship").
If it's the former, cool your jets, man.
posted by availablelight at 7:46 AM on May 26, 2009
If it's the former, cool your jets, man.
posted by availablelight at 7:46 AM on May 26, 2009
Is she heartbroken over him not wanting a long-term relationship with her, or did she just realize they wanted different things, and decided to move on? If the former, give it some time (a month or so). If the latter, ask her to do something one-on-one and vaguely date-ish -- coffee or brunch, not dinner. If it goes well, ask again -- this time, dinner somewhere inexpensive and casual. While you're dropping her off after the dinner, say, "I've been having a great time hanging out with you," and see what she says in response.
posted by palliser at 7:56 AM on May 26, 2009
posted by palliser at 7:56 AM on May 26, 2009
Your thinking that you'd only interested in a long term relationship is faulty for two reasons:
1. You said yourself you don't have enough practical experience dating - so how do you know you don't like short term relationships?
2. You can't get to 'long term' without going through the short term. Your previous long-term relationship didn't start long term. It started out as a short term relationship - it's just been so long that you've forgotten.
On to your specific question.
The fact that she said that she doesn't want to be in a long-term relationship may just mean that she doesn't want to be in a long-term relationship with the guy she just broke up with. Or maybe she wants to date around now.
How do you find out?
You open your mouth and say "Hi Beth, I'd like to take you out on a date." There is no other way to do this.
If she says "yes", go out for lunch, dinner, or coffee, followed by some activity that allows you two to talk and have something to talk about. (go to a street fair, farmer's market, museum, whatever. Don't go to a movie and sit awkwardly in the dark for two hours).
If she says "no" say "ok, talk to you later" and let it go.
If she says "can I bring my friend Sherry" or she says "well.." she's really saying "no", but trying to be cool about it. Politely decline offers to meet with additional friends and say "if you're not interested in a date, that's fine, no worries. Talk to you later" and let it go.
posted by device55 at 7:57 AM on May 26, 2009 [1 favorite]
1. You said yourself you don't have enough practical experience dating - so how do you know you don't like short term relationships?
2. You can't get to 'long term' without going through the short term. Your previous long-term relationship didn't start long term. It started out as a short term relationship - it's just been so long that you've forgotten.
On to your specific question.
The fact that she said that she doesn't want to be in a long-term relationship may just mean that she doesn't want to be in a long-term relationship with the guy she just broke up with. Or maybe she wants to date around now.
How do you find out?
You open your mouth and say "Hi Beth, I'd like to take you out on a date." There is no other way to do this.
If she says "yes", go out for lunch, dinner, or coffee, followed by some activity that allows you two to talk and have something to talk about. (go to a street fair, farmer's market, museum, whatever. Don't go to a movie and sit awkwardly in the dark for two hours).
If she says "no" say "ok, talk to you later" and let it go.
If she says "can I bring my friend Sherry" or she says "well.." she's really saying "no", but trying to be cool about it. Politely decline offers to meet with additional friends and say "if you're not interested in a date, that's fine, no worries. Talk to you later" and let it go.
posted by device55 at 7:57 AM on May 26, 2009 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, I have no idea how Beth feels about me as anything more than a friend, and I don't want to make things weird between us.
After waiting the appropriate amount of time, this will be your next big hurdle. Unfortunately there is no secret way to find out if someone likes you or would be open to dating you. Even in junior high when I had my friends ask him, there was still doubt no matter what his answer was.
Just kiss her already, and if things become weird, they become weird. They probably won't even if she doesn't return your feelings. I've made a move on guys, gotten shot down and then stayed friends with them. The world did not end and I did not collapse into a singularity. It felt like I would for a moment and then I got over it. There were other times where the guy didn't shoot me down and we ended up dating. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
posted by soelo at 7:59 AM on May 26, 2009 [1 favorite]
After waiting the appropriate amount of time, this will be your next big hurdle. Unfortunately there is no secret way to find out if someone likes you or would be open to dating you. Even in junior high when I had my friends ask him, there was still doubt no matter what his answer was.
Just kiss her already, and if things become weird, they become weird. They probably won't even if she doesn't return your feelings. I've made a move on guys, gotten shot down and then stayed friends with them. The world did not end and I did not collapse into a singularity. It felt like I would for a moment and then I got over it. There were other times where the guy didn't shoot me down and we ended up dating. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
posted by soelo at 7:59 AM on May 26, 2009 [1 favorite]
You open your mouth and say "Hi Beth, I'd like to take you out on a date." There is no other way to do this.
This. After a respectable amount of post-breakup time, of course. Don't be ambiguous about it if you want to pursue a dating relationship. You may be "going from friends to more," which could make it seem logical to just sort of ease ahead, but I think there's real value in being explicit and intentional.
The problem with not saying anything and just making a move randomly is that you position yourself perfectly to be the confusing rebound guy (are we dating? is this just a post-breakup fling? are we fwb?) rather than the potentially long-term relationship.
If she says she broke up with the ex because she wants a relationship, not just something casual, I think that's your cue to ask her on a date and make it clear that you're being intentional. Don't assume that you will have a long-term relationship with Beth, but do be clear that you're aiming in that direction.
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:14 AM on May 26, 2009
This. After a respectable amount of post-breakup time, of course. Don't be ambiguous about it if you want to pursue a dating relationship. You may be "going from friends to more," which could make it seem logical to just sort of ease ahead, but I think there's real value in being explicit and intentional.
The problem with not saying anything and just making a move randomly is that you position yourself perfectly to be the confusing rebound guy (are we dating? is this just a post-breakup fling? are we fwb?) rather than the potentially long-term relationship.
If she says she broke up with the ex because she wants a relationship, not just something casual, I think that's your cue to ask her on a date and make it clear that you're being intentional. Don't assume that you will have a long-term relationship with Beth, but do be clear that you're aiming in that direction.
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:14 AM on May 26, 2009
I hate to play the a-hole here but I have found out from experience that if a girl puts you in the friend zone... it will take nothing short of 2 acts of God, 3 acts of congress, and a whole lot of rings of fire to be jumped through. In short there is really no outward sign that you can do to make her want to be with you if she likes you as a friend. The girl has to come to the conclusion that you are want she wants by herself.
I was in this situation like you. Know this girl, we dated before but nothing happened. She went off to college and we just talked on the phone. I'm pretty much in her friend zone. She will flirt with me and say that there is "sexual frustration" between us but nothing happens normally. Or on the rare occasion that we do fool around she calls me a pervert the next day and won't talk to me for a few weeks. Yeah it's that confusing. I have reserved myself to the stance that I am her friend only. She is too crazy to deal with. I suggest you do the same with Beth. There are plenty of women out there, don't set your sights on just one.
Lastly bonus advice. My uncle says this and it makes sense. "You want a women with a good heart."
posted by Mastercheddaar at 8:30 AM on May 26, 2009
I was in this situation like you. Know this girl, we dated before but nothing happened. She went off to college and we just talked on the phone. I'm pretty much in her friend zone. She will flirt with me and say that there is "sexual frustration" between us but nothing happens normally. Or on the rare occasion that we do fool around she calls me a pervert the next day and won't talk to me for a few weeks. Yeah it's that confusing. I have reserved myself to the stance that I am her friend only. She is too crazy to deal with. I suggest you do the same with Beth. There are plenty of women out there, don't set your sights on just one.
Lastly bonus advice. My uncle says this and it makes sense. "You want a women with a good heart."
posted by Mastercheddaar at 8:30 AM on May 26, 2009
follow-up form the OP
the relationship I was talking about was 6 months long, and not 4 yearsposted by jessamyn at 9:33 AM on May 26, 2009
I hate to play the a-hole here but I have found out from experience that if a girl puts you in the friend zone... it will take nothing short of 2 acts of God, 3 acts of congress, and a whole lot of rings of fire to be jumped through.
Well, for the opposite perspective, in my experience, it's very common for a woman to grow into the idea of a romantic relationship with a male friend. In fact, there are three kids in my family, and all three of us are in now-married pairings of man-who-always-knew-he-wanted-to-date-his-friend and woman-who-took-a-little-longer-to-figure-that-out.
posted by palliser at 10:03 AM on May 26, 2009 [1 favorite]
Well, for the opposite perspective, in my experience, it's very common for a woman to grow into the idea of a romantic relationship with a male friend. In fact, there are three kids in my family, and all three of us are in now-married pairings of man-who-always-knew-he-wanted-to-date-his-friend and woman-who-took-a-little-longer-to-figure-that-out.
posted by palliser at 10:03 AM on May 26, 2009 [1 favorite]
I don't know about the friend zone theory. I have in the past ended up dating guys that I had been friends with - sometimes you just don't know until they ask, and then it kind of clicks, like oh, huh, yeah, let's give that a try! I have also gently shot down date requests and successfully stayed friends afterwards.
Unfortunately, you have to just spit it out. It can't be ambiguous, although you can fall back on the kind of casual, "hey, have you ever thought about us going out on a date?" If you've got mutual friends, you can try to get some information from them - yeah, it sounds all middle school, but it works.
You need to wait a couple weeks though. You need to genuinely be okay with either answer, and you need to be okay with risking your friendship - even if you end up dating successfully it will still be a different sort of relationship, and not the one you have now.
If she says no, then just tell her something like, "that's cool, I was just thinking that since we get along so well it could be worth a try, but you're right, it's hard to find good friends and I wouldn't want to risk that." And then don't be weird.
posted by KAS at 10:31 AM on May 26, 2009
Unfortunately, you have to just spit it out. It can't be ambiguous, although you can fall back on the kind of casual, "hey, have you ever thought about us going out on a date?" If you've got mutual friends, you can try to get some information from them - yeah, it sounds all middle school, but it works.
You need to wait a couple weeks though. You need to genuinely be okay with either answer, and you need to be okay with risking your friendship - even if you end up dating successfully it will still be a different sort of relationship, and not the one you have now.
If she says no, then just tell her something like, "that's cool, I was just thinking that since we get along so well it could be worth a try, but you're right, it's hard to find good friends and I wouldn't want to risk that." And then don't be weird.
posted by KAS at 10:31 AM on May 26, 2009
Seconding palliser (as I seem to do constantly lately, huh) re: Mastercheddaar's comment. I truly only thought of my roommate as a mere acquaintance, and then a friendly person to talk books with into the night. He was most definitely in the friend zone--hell, I had a serious boyfriend when we became roommates--and the feeling was mutual. Once I broke up with my boyfriend, he was still definitely only my friend in my mind. All that ladder theory b.s. is really off-putting; gameplay strategizing talk makes me wrinkle my nose. Anyway, he's my fiance now, and also the hottest guy in the world in my eyes. Making assumptions is silly.
But as all of these sorts of threads go, where the basic question is "how do I find out if someone likes me while minimizing any sort of risk whatsoever," the honest answer is you kind of can't, and that's life. Embrace it. I took a risk with my now-fiance, and even if it hadn't worked out I'd still be proud of myself for taking action and making life happen instead of passively avoiding life out of fear of rejection or emotional messiness. Just be respectful and follow your instincts in a healthy, gentle manner. You'll know when the time if right to ask or kiss or whatever, if you hush up that neurotic fearful voice we all have inside enough first.
posted by ifjuly at 1:10 PM on May 26, 2009 [2 favorites]
But as all of these sorts of threads go, where the basic question is "how do I find out if someone likes me while minimizing any sort of risk whatsoever," the honest answer is you kind of can't, and that's life. Embrace it. I took a risk with my now-fiance, and even if it hadn't worked out I'd still be proud of myself for taking action and making life happen instead of passively avoiding life out of fear of rejection or emotional messiness. Just be respectful and follow your instincts in a healthy, gentle manner. You'll know when the time if right to ask or kiss or whatever, if you hush up that neurotic fearful voice we all have inside enough first.
posted by ifjuly at 1:10 PM on May 26, 2009 [2 favorites]
I'd say hang out with her, be a good friend while she's getting over the breakup, and when you think she's ready, make with the flirting, if she flirts back, you're in. Sometimes really good relationships can come out of friendships. My current boyfriend of 7 years was a friend first, and we have a great time together.
the only caution I'd give is that if she's not interested, you have to put it out of your mind - hanging around being secretly in love with her will just be uncomfortable - girls can tell!
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 1:29 PM on May 26, 2009
the only caution I'd give is that if she's not interested, you have to put it out of your mind - hanging around being secretly in love with her will just be uncomfortable - girls can tell!
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 1:29 PM on May 26, 2009
I'll second palliser's pov. Women don't re-evaluate male friends on a daily basis as romantic prospects so letting her know you see it as a possibility gives her a chance to think again. Also I agree with above posters that you can't KNOW about being in a long term relationship from the start, but let her know you aren't aiming for a fling and are open to seeing how things work out.
posted by variella at 4:49 PM on May 26, 2009
posted by variella at 4:49 PM on May 26, 2009
This is what my husband did when I broke up with my ex-boyfriend of two and a half years: he spent a ton of time with me, just as friends, to help keep my mind off my ex. Basically, the same thing all my other good friends were doing, but he was more available. If you wouldn't do this if you knew she wouldn't go out with you later, than don't do it now. It sounds like you guys are good friends, though.
He didn't flirt with me much, if at all, during the first couple months of this. In other words, he gave me no impression that he was only wanting to date me and didn't care about my feelings. When I gradually started getting over my ex, I quit talking about my ex all the time, and I started flirting with my now-husband a bit. He let me do all the flirting for three or four weeks, iirc. Then he started flirting back and asking me on official dates and such. Once we were dating a while I asked him if he had been wanting to date me the whole time, and he said yes, but he wanted to wait until I was over my ex and didn't want to pressure me.
In other words, be there for her, help keep her cheerful after the break-up, and be patient. If she wants to date you, you'll be able to tell eventually. If not, you're still friends and you still helped her through a hard time.
posted by Nattie at 6:56 PM on May 26, 2009 [1 favorite]
He didn't flirt with me much, if at all, during the first couple months of this. In other words, he gave me no impression that he was only wanting to date me and didn't care about my feelings. When I gradually started getting over my ex, I quit talking about my ex all the time, and I started flirting with my now-husband a bit. He let me do all the flirting for three or four weeks, iirc. Then he started flirting back and asking me on official dates and such. Once we were dating a while I asked him if he had been wanting to date me the whole time, and he said yes, but he wanted to wait until I was over my ex and didn't want to pressure me.
In other words, be there for her, help keep her cheerful after the break-up, and be patient. If she wants to date you, you'll be able to tell eventually. If not, you're still friends and you still helped her through a hard time.
posted by Nattie at 6:56 PM on May 26, 2009 [1 favorite]
I stopped reading at "Last week, Beth broke up with her boyfriend." wanting to shout : "WAIT".
Wait for the break-up wound to heal, otherwise you risk putting both of you through a painful emotionnal rollercoaster (happy end optional, not entirely impossible but far from guaranteed).
Hope it helps...
posted by Baud at 11:58 PM on May 26, 2009
Wait for the break-up wound to heal, otherwise you risk putting both of you through a painful emotionnal rollercoaster (happy end optional, not entirely impossible but far from guaranteed).
Hope it helps...
posted by Baud at 11:58 PM on May 26, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 7:43 AM on May 26, 2009 [5 favorites]