I never knew I'd be thinking quite these thoughts
May 15, 2009 6:42 AM Subscribe
How to deal with feeling attracted to an underage teen in one's 20s?
I'm in my 20s, and found myself attracted to an underage teenage girl, 15, going on 16, I ended up talking to over the internet. I responded to her flirtation by flirting back, fantasizing, and ultimately masturbating to a picture she sent me of herself in lingerie. Subsequently I felt sick and nearly vomited. Apparently she fetishizes older men and finds me attractive, and even after the wrenching post-chat epsode, I still felt attacted to her. I've been in therapy for other unrelated reasons, and I'll certainly be going back after this, but I thought I'd ask the community: how best do I cope with something I didn't really think I was capable of, and feel better about myself again in light of still feeling a combination of disgust and arousal?
I'm in my 20s, and found myself attracted to an underage teenage girl, 15, going on 16, I ended up talking to over the internet. I responded to her flirtation by flirting back, fantasizing, and ultimately masturbating to a picture she sent me of herself in lingerie. Subsequently I felt sick and nearly vomited. Apparently she fetishizes older men and finds me attractive, and even after the wrenching post-chat epsode, I still felt attacted to her. I've been in therapy for other unrelated reasons, and I'll certainly be going back after this, but I thought I'd ask the community: how best do I cope with something I didn't really think I was capable of, and feel better about myself again in light of still feeling a combination of disgust and arousal?
You have to think about this along two lines. In your society that woman is off limits. But in human history, and in plenty of human cultures now, it is not unnatural or taboo for a man your age to be attracted to, and get involved with, a woman her age. I say "woman" advisedly because that is what she is. (Others may elaborate on this with thoughts on evolutionary psychology and how men are naturally drawn to youth because of its fertility. There's plenty of stuff written about this too.)
Our culture constantly challeges the taboo it has created (by showing images young models and actresses that skirt the edge of the age line) simply because it's an arbitrary construct. Women themselves under the limit are often quite well aware of the forbidden nature of their charms. There's nothing, in some moods, so attractive as that which is tabboed.
So it's nothing to vomit over personally. But it is nonetheless, in your situation, not something you should or can act on.
posted by zadcat at 6:56 AM on May 15, 2009 [4 favorites]
Our culture constantly challeges the taboo it has created (by showing images young models and actresses that skirt the edge of the age line) simply because it's an arbitrary construct. Women themselves under the limit are often quite well aware of the forbidden nature of their charms. There's nothing, in some moods, so attractive as that which is tabboed.
So it's nothing to vomit over personally. But it is nonetheless, in your situation, not something you should or can act on.
posted by zadcat at 6:56 AM on May 15, 2009 [4 favorites]
Also, just to make you feel better, technically pedophilia refers to being sexually attracted to a prepubescent child. 15-16 year old girls are decidedly not prepubescent. I'm also in my early 20's and find myself attracted to much younger girls occasionally. I think bobot is right. It's not because they're underage, it's just because they're attractive. So, it's not a good thing, since you could get in legal trouble over pictures or doing something with her, but it doesn't mean you're a sex pervert either. They don't call it jailbait for nothing.
posted by InsanePenguin at 6:58 AM on May 15, 2009
posted by InsanePenguin at 6:58 AM on May 15, 2009
I think you need to calm down a little. The age of consent in many US states is 16. In many other countries it's 15 or younger. So you're not exactly a paedophile. I have a friend who was 15 when she met her partner, who was 30 at the time. She's now in her late 30's, and he's... well, older, but they're two of the most average, normal people I know (and they're still together).
If you have a genuine interest in a relationship with this girl (woman, really), and if she appears to have a similar interest in you, then there's no doubt life could be complicated from the point of view of explaining things to family and friends, and also in terms of how you yourself handle a relationship with someone who is quite a lot younger than you, and who may be vulnerable as a result of not having the necessary life experience to make mature decisions.
Your feelings of disgust are probably just a symptom of a recent cultural phenomenon where a paedophile lurks outside every school gate. You yourself know the limits of what you will do. Would you have behaved the same way were she 12? Do you only find yourself attracted to girls of her age, or are you usually interested in women of your own age?
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 6:58 AM on May 15, 2009 [2 favorites]
If you have a genuine interest in a relationship with this girl (woman, really), and if she appears to have a similar interest in you, then there's no doubt life could be complicated from the point of view of explaining things to family and friends, and also in terms of how you yourself handle a relationship with someone who is quite a lot younger than you, and who may be vulnerable as a result of not having the necessary life experience to make mature decisions.
Your feelings of disgust are probably just a symptom of a recent cultural phenomenon where a paedophile lurks outside every school gate. You yourself know the limits of what you will do. Would you have behaved the same way were she 12? Do you only find yourself attracted to girls of her age, or are you usually interested in women of your own age?
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 6:58 AM on May 15, 2009 [2 favorites]
I ended up talking to over the internet
Apparently she fetishizes older men
As a sidenote: if you never met this girl in person, it's likely she's not underage, or not even a "she". In the real world, very few underaged girls talk about "fetishizing older men."
posted by availablelight at 6:59 AM on May 15, 2009 [14 favorites]
Apparently she fetishizes older men
As a sidenote: if you never met this girl in person, it's likely she's not underage, or not even a "she". In the real world, very few underaged girls talk about "fetishizing older men."
posted by availablelight at 6:59 AM on May 15, 2009 [14 favorites]
Do you remember what it was like to be 15? Horny as hell, right? 15 year olds are not innocent pure little daisies that must be protected. A lot of them are sexually active, or at least curious.
Are you sure she's actually a girl, and actually 15? Have you spoken to her on the phone? There's a pretty good chance she's not.
The most common age of consent in the USA is 16.
Depending on how explicit that photo is, it might be illegal, and I'd probably delete it.
Don't beat yourself up, kid. Most dudes out there are attracted to teenagers. Fantasies don't hurt anyone, and don't make you a terrible person. Exploiting someone does.
"This is in regard to your friend who calls attractive teenage girls "roundups," as in, "Round her up to 21 and she'll be fuckable." I don't think he's a pedophile. He finds these young women attractive but understands they are off-limits. My female friends and I have a similar term for the strapping young high-school lads we see all over town: We call them "tag and release." You know, like wildlife. You put a marker on a stud when he's 15 with the idea that you'll be back to claim him when he's legal. It's the same idea. "
posted by Juliet Banana at 7:00 AM on May 15, 2009 [2 favorites]
Are you sure she's actually a girl, and actually 15? Have you spoken to her on the phone? There's a pretty good chance she's not.
The most common age of consent in the USA is 16.
Depending on how explicit that photo is, it might be illegal, and I'd probably delete it.
Don't beat yourself up, kid. Most dudes out there are attracted to teenagers. Fantasies don't hurt anyone, and don't make you a terrible person. Exploiting someone does.
"This is in regard to your friend who calls attractive teenage girls "roundups," as in, "Round her up to 21 and she'll be fuckable." I don't think he's a pedophile. He finds these young women attractive but understands they are off-limits. My female friends and I have a similar term for the strapping young high-school lads we see all over town: We call them "tag and release." You know, like wildlife. You put a marker on a stud when he's 15 with the idea that you'll be back to claim him when he's legal. It's the same idea. "
posted by Juliet Banana at 7:00 AM on May 15, 2009 [2 favorites]
I sort of hate to bring this up, but are you sure this is a girl? I say this because there are plenty of incidents in which guys think they are talking to an underage girl on the net, only to find out later that it's a cop. I mean, if you've met her IRL that's one thing, but if all you have is internet chat, well...
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 7:01 AM on May 15, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 7:01 AM on May 15, 2009 [1 favorite]
Whoops, Juliet Banana made the point already. Preview, Guy -- preview.
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 7:02 AM on May 15, 2009
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 7:02 AM on May 15, 2009
Stop talking to her, and stop making such a big deal out of it.
Pretty much just those two things.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:08 AM on May 15, 2009 [9 favorites]
Pretty much just those two things.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:08 AM on May 15, 2009 [9 favorites]
It's perfectly normal for men to be attracted to teenage girls, so don't beat yourself up for this.
But you can't act on it. Impulse control, you know? Imagine her face as a red flashing DANGER sign.
The aspect of your post that is troubling is that you use the passive voice for yourself, like you're a victim of her flirtation, like it was something done to you. You are the adult in this situation, you have the responsibility to end it immediately. No matter how much she flirts with you.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 7:11 AM on May 15, 2009 [4 favorites]
But you can't act on it. Impulse control, you know? Imagine her face as a red flashing DANGER sign.
The aspect of your post that is troubling is that you use the passive voice for yourself, like you're a victim of her flirtation, like it was something done to you. You are the adult in this situation, you have the responsibility to end it immediately. No matter how much she flirts with you.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 7:11 AM on May 15, 2009 [4 favorites]
The key is that you're not attracted to her because she looks like a child, but because she's attractive. Pedophilia, as it has been mentioned, is associated with girls/boys that look pre-pubescent. It seems safe to say that based on that lingerie photo "she" sent you, you just think she's hot.
Just be careful about who you're actually talking to, delete the photo, don't act on anything, and you have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of.
posted by Grimble at 7:18 AM on May 15, 2009
Just be careful about who you're actually talking to, delete the photo, don't act on anything, and you have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of.
posted by Grimble at 7:18 AM on May 15, 2009
1) You've done nothing wrong or unnatural so quit beating yourself up; we're not talking about a child but a nubile young woman. I'm sure most straight men between the age of 16 and the grave would be attracted to her. She's the prime breeding age that we've evolved to be attracted to; you're just feeling the normal caveman instincts we all have inside.
2) You clearly feel strongly that she is too young for you to have a relationship with, and you're probably right. Break off contact. Find something else to engage your mind - a nice walk in the park, or a new computer game or whatever floats your boat.
posted by nowonmai at 7:29 AM on May 15, 2009
2) You clearly feel strongly that she is too young for you to have a relationship with, and you're probably right. Break off contact. Find something else to engage your mind - a nice walk in the park, or a new computer game or whatever floats your boat.
posted by nowonmai at 7:29 AM on May 15, 2009
Also, this is what masturbation is for. Go nuts.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:34 AM on May 15, 2009
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:34 AM on May 15, 2009
FYI, people who are saying that 15 year olds are at a peak fertile age or "prime breeding age." They're not. The peak fertility age range for women is around 19-24 or so. At age 15, most girls aren't even ovulating every month yet. As far as caveman instincts go, most women were not fertile until after age 17 until the 20th century, so that's out, too.
What we're dealing with is not a woman in prime breeding age, but a girl who is trying to act that way. She's dressing sexy, acting sexy, etc. It's easy to pass for a grown-up when you try hard enough, and she's using that to snare you. You're the older person here, so stop talking to her. Don't feel guilty, because she's using sex appeal in the same way it's used by adults, but definitely try to interact with girls closer to your age to get your mind off of her.
posted by ishotjr at 7:51 AM on May 15, 2009 [3 favorites]
What we're dealing with is not a woman in prime breeding age, but a girl who is trying to act that way. She's dressing sexy, acting sexy, etc. It's easy to pass for a grown-up when you try hard enough, and she's using that to snare you. You're the older person here, so stop talking to her. Don't feel guilty, because she's using sex appeal in the same way it's used by adults, but definitely try to interact with girls closer to your age to get your mind off of her.
posted by ishotjr at 7:51 AM on May 15, 2009 [3 favorites]
Also, this is what masturbation is for. Go nuts.
Maybe... but it's also worth nothing that sexting (haha, i used it!) with an underage girl could likely be illegal, no matter if that "underage girl" is an old man or not.
Shoot for someone who at least represents themselves as being of legal age, and then you truly have nothing to be worried about or shameful of.
posted by nitsuj at 7:54 AM on May 15, 2009 [1 favorite]
Maybe... but it's also worth nothing that sexting (haha, i used it!) with an underage girl could likely be illegal, no matter if that "underage girl" is an old man or not.
Shoot for someone who at least represents themselves as being of legal age, and then you truly have nothing to be worried about or shameful of.
posted by nitsuj at 7:54 AM on May 15, 2009 [1 favorite]
Be careful and find a great woman your own age dude. It is dangerous and torturous at best for you.
What you describe is exactly how Perverted-Justice and Chris Hansons' crew on "To catch a predator" start each case.
posted by Studiogeek at 8:03 AM on May 15, 2009
What you describe is exactly how Perverted-Justice and Chris Hansons' crew on "To catch a predator" start each case.
posted by Studiogeek at 8:03 AM on May 15, 2009
Maybe... but it's also worth nothing that sexting (haha, i used it!) with an underage girl could likely be illegal, no matter if that "underage girl" is an old man or not.
I agree -- not a good idea (I said above he shouldn't continue to talk with her) -- I just meant, having done that, he can feel free to jerk off as much as he likes. Barf-free!
posted by A Terrible Llama at 8:07 AM on May 15, 2009
I agree -- not a good idea (I said above he shouldn't continue to talk with her) -- I just meant, having done that, he can feel free to jerk off as much as he likes. Barf-free!
posted by A Terrible Llama at 8:07 AM on May 15, 2009
If she contacts you again of her own volition, do not respond!!!
I see red flags for entrapment.
posted by jgirl at 8:45 AM on May 15, 2009
I see red flags for entrapment.
posted by jgirl at 8:45 AM on May 15, 2009
"In [your] 20s"? Are you 20 or 29? Why the vagueness?
Anyway seconding llama. Walk away.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 9:49 AM on May 15, 2009 [1 favorite]
Anyway seconding llama. Walk away.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 9:49 AM on May 15, 2009 [1 favorite]
I would suggest looking up your state's sex offender registry. Look at the sullen faces of all the people on there. Do you want to join them? That should be a decent deterrent.
posted by reenum at 9:50 AM on May 15, 2009
posted by reenum at 9:50 AM on May 15, 2009
I see red flags for entrapment.
Oddly, I thought this sounded a lot like a set up from Dateline NBC's To Catch a Predator show.
posted by jerseygirl at 9:56 AM on May 15, 2009
Oddly, I thought this sounded a lot like a set up from Dateline NBC's To Catch a Predator show.
posted by jerseygirl at 9:56 AM on May 15, 2009
Oddly, I thought this sounded a lot like a set up from Dateline NBC's To Catch a Predator show.
I have a friend whose father ended up in jail because the cops were pretending to be a fifteen year old girl and he agreed to meet "her" in a mall. Do not under any circumstances go to meet this "girl."
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:03 AM on May 15, 2009
I have a friend whose father ended up in jail because the cops were pretending to be a fifteen year old girl and he agreed to meet "her" in a mall. Do not under any circumstances go to meet this "girl."
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:03 AM on May 15, 2009
Just imagine that she's actually a big burly cop on the other end, trying to nab you for crimes you wouldn't normally commit. I'm sure that'll make your boner wilt.
posted by randomstriker at 10:30 AM on May 15, 2009
posted by randomstriker at 10:30 AM on May 15, 2009
Mod note: This is a followup from the asker.
I was rushing the question at the time, but to give a little more background, I'm 23. The person I chatted with was either from Scotland or a really keen study (American here) so I wasn't quite sure what the whole thing really was at the time. The picture resembled a girl who rejected me in high school, so I literally almost couldn't take anymore after a while. Of course I'll never speak to her again, but I still feel terrible knowing how I fantasized about "waiting for her", which appeared to be something she was fine with, and even attracted to herself.posted by cortex (staff) at 11:50 AM on May 15, 2009
The most common age of consent in the USA is 16.
But there are also laws in many states/locations that make it illegal for anyone 2 years or more older than a person under 18 to have sex with that person.
Anon - sometimes timing is everything. If she really is a 15 year old girl, I doubt she'd wait 2-3 years for you. Socialize with others your own age group. Sign up for OKCupid. Are you in school? There are lots of ways a 23 year old can meet women of an appropriate age.
posted by cmgonzalez at 12:25 PM on May 15, 2009
But there are also laws in many states/locations that make it illegal for anyone 2 years or more older than a person under 18 to have sex with that person.
Anon - sometimes timing is everything. If she really is a 15 year old girl, I doubt she'd wait 2-3 years for you. Socialize with others your own age group. Sign up for OKCupid. Are you in school? There are lots of ways a 23 year old can meet women of an appropriate age.
posted by cmgonzalez at 12:25 PM on May 15, 2009
The entire western society fetishizes and objectifies the adolescent female body, you're part of it, so I'd say your arousal is at least culturally justified. On the other hand, it might be illegal and clearly it's not healthy* for you, so cut every contact (*meaning: you wouldn't throw up out of guilt otherwise) and -I think- you really should mention this episode to your therapist, guilt puking included.
And, regardless what she wrote to you, I'd say she hasn't a fetish for older men. She has a fetish for her newly-discovered leverage.
/armchair psychologist.
posted by _dario at 3:19 PM on May 15, 2009
And, regardless what she wrote to you, I'd say she hasn't a fetish for older men. She has a fetish for her newly-discovered leverage.
/armchair psychologist.
posted by _dario at 3:19 PM on May 15, 2009
1- Probably a cop. Generally speaking, yes, teenagers are horny, but not terribly articulate or experienced in how to talk dirty. Sure, there are plenty of smooth talking youngsters out there, but I would tend to think they are out in real life practicing the craft of seduction. Specifically speaking, the people who best know how to get an adult male off is another adult male.
2- There is nothing wrong with being attracted to fully-grown people- our minds don't calculate age, they just recognize patterns. There are plenty of teenagers with fully developed adult-style bodies. And there are plenty of over-18 adults with adolescent looking bodies.
3- There IS something wrong with acting on attractions to people who are not sexually available, no matter what the reason. Whether it's legal age/relationship problems, or hitting on someone who makes their lack of interest known, or whatever. (Whether internet sex chat is "acting on" this is up to you.)
4- Age of consent laws are not horseshoes. That 16 is a common age of consent doesn't mean a hill of beans if you are in an area with a different age of consent.
5- There are now national laws that supercede state age of consent laws. Naughty talk with someone who would be perfectly legal to have a sexual relationship with in real life but who is under 18, on the internet, may be technically illegal.
6- On the off chance this really is a real person who has not lied about herself, you should probably cut off contact in a polite but firm way. And if it is law enforcement, an opportunity to make yourself not a target.
7- Check out the perverts on perverted justice dot com. These dudes are seriously whacked. Make sure you weren't one of their targets.
posted by gjc at 3:33 PM on May 15, 2009
2- There is nothing wrong with being attracted to fully-grown people- our minds don't calculate age, they just recognize patterns. There are plenty of teenagers with fully developed adult-style bodies. And there are plenty of over-18 adults with adolescent looking bodies.
3- There IS something wrong with acting on attractions to people who are not sexually available, no matter what the reason. Whether it's legal age/relationship problems, or hitting on someone who makes their lack of interest known, or whatever. (Whether internet sex chat is "acting on" this is up to you.)
4- Age of consent laws are not horseshoes. That 16 is a common age of consent doesn't mean a hill of beans if you are in an area with a different age of consent.
5- There are now national laws that supercede state age of consent laws. Naughty talk with someone who would be perfectly legal to have a sexual relationship with in real life but who is under 18, on the internet, may be technically illegal.
6- On the off chance this really is a real person who has not lied about herself, you should probably cut off contact in a polite but firm way. And if it is law enforcement, an opportunity to make yourself not a target.
7- Check out the perverts on perverted justice dot com. These dudes are seriously whacked. Make sure you weren't one of their targets.
posted by gjc at 3:33 PM on May 15, 2009
Dude, just chill out -- you have enough self control not to chase teenagers. Recognize that fact about yourself and then stay out of the chatrooms. (And if you don't, I predict that you'll be meeting Chris Hansen soon enough if you go down this path.)
posted by paultopia at 9:02 AM on May 16, 2009
posted by paultopia at 9:02 AM on May 16, 2009
I think the main question here is not why you're attracted to her or how to stop feeling attracted to her -- as others have mentioned you are likely intrigued by her because she is attractive, not necessarily because she is still just emerging from her Lolita phase -- I think the main question is why are you having and maintaing online sexual relationships with fifteen year-olds. Because even if she is sexually active, even if she is mature and "womanly," she is still very young. And you are not. And as Paultopia mentioned, this puts the ball in your court. The fact that you recognize that it's inappropriate is good, the fact that you have maintained the relationship is not. To avoid psychological complications to both parties, it seems best that you cut her off and find appealing women over age to trade pictures with.
posted by Amaranta at 2:04 PM on May 16, 2009
posted by Amaranta at 2:04 PM on May 16, 2009
This epic Wired story will give you all the guidance you need: An IM Infatuation Turned to Romance. Then the Truth Came Out.
Say goodbye, and feel relieved that she was actually a 39 year old policeman with hemorrhoids named Kowalski. Also you had sexytime chat with Kowalski, so you should probably go vomit again. I mean he was sitting on his donut the whole time and everything.
posted by dgaicun at 5:56 AM on May 17, 2009
Say goodbye, and feel relieved that she was actually a 39 year old policeman with hemorrhoids named Kowalski. Also you had sexytime chat with Kowalski, so you should probably go vomit again. I mean he was sitting on his donut the whole time and everything.
posted by dgaicun at 5:56 AM on May 17, 2009
If you're talking to her online I'd say realize its a fat neckbeard (or Chris Hansen) you're talking to and laugh at yourself for being stupid.
That being said... If you want to put your balls in some icewater read up on what happens to guys that get put on the National Sex Offender Registry. Shit is so not cash my man... Nobody will be on your side. You can kiss away any chance of ever having a normal middle class life ever again. Totally not worth doing it with some immature 16 year old.
posted by Redmond Cooper at 4:54 PM on May 17, 2009
That being said... If you want to put your balls in some icewater read up on what happens to guys that get put on the National Sex Offender Registry. Shit is so not cash my man... Nobody will be on your side. You can kiss away any chance of ever having a normal middle class life ever again. Totally not worth doing it with some immature 16 year old.
posted by Redmond Cooper at 4:54 PM on May 17, 2009
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posted by bobot at 6:53 AM on May 15, 2009 [11 favorites]