Wilder, VT versus Lebanon/Hanover NH.
May 13, 2009 12:36 PM Subscribe
Wilder, VT versus Lebanon/Hanover NH. I recently got a job in Hanover, NH. I am looking for places to live and am trying to decide between living in the Lebanon/Hanover area or a cheaper place that I found in Wilder, VT.
What are the pros and cons of renting in Wilder, VT versus the Lebanon/Hanover, NH area? I have heard there is a state income tax and sales tax in Vermont and I am trying to gauge how much this would affect me since I would be renting (vs. owning) and would be able to buy most anything I needed in Lebanon. Any other things to consider?
Any help/advice/suggestions are greatly appreciated. Also, if you have any suggestions for places to live in the area (hidden gems) let me know.
What are the pros and cons of renting in Wilder, VT versus the Lebanon/Hanover, NH area? I have heard there is a state income tax and sales tax in Vermont and I am trying to gauge how much this would affect me since I would be renting (vs. owning) and would be able to buy most anything I needed in Lebanon. Any other things to consider?
Any help/advice/suggestions are greatly appreciated. Also, if you have any suggestions for places to live in the area (hidden gems) let me know.
NH does not have an income tax, so you'll save some $$ by living and working in NH vs. living in VT and working in NH (you'll have to pay VT income tax).
posted by chiefthe at 12:48 PM on May 13, 2009
posted by chiefthe at 12:48 PM on May 13, 2009
Ok, so I went to Dartmouth, but I never lived off campus, so I don't have much to say about the housing market.
What I will say, though, is that they never canceled school due to weather - classes were only canceled when the professors, who didn't live in Hanover, couldn't make it.
It's tough to get into town during weather issues, especially if the plows haven't gotten out. They're pretty good about it, but it still happens. Hanover housing is expensive - very expensive.
posted by SNWidget at 1:12 PM on May 13, 2009
What I will say, though, is that they never canceled school due to weather - classes were only canceled when the professors, who didn't live in Hanover, couldn't make it.
It's tough to get into town during weather issues, especially if the plows haven't gotten out. They're pretty good about it, but it still happens. Hanover housing is expensive - very expensive.
posted by SNWidget at 1:12 PM on May 13, 2009
I lived in West Lebanon, NH a few years ago, 2002 to 2004. My office was first in Hanover and then moved to Lebanon. Hanover was a little too "college" for my tastes, even though I was a college employee. It was so nice to move to Lebanon and go to restaurants/bars/coffee places with people who weren't students. Parking wasn't a pain the way it always seemed to be in Hanover. For reference, I was in my late twenties during this time.
If I had to move there now? I'd live as close to downtown Lebanon as possible, specifically close to this coffee/pub place.
I can't comment at all about quality of life Wilder, VT, except that I always liked driving across the border, and my friends were split evenly between VT residents and NH residents, and we socialized evenly in both states.
As a renter in New Hampshire, it was nice paying no state income tax and no sales tax. If I remember, registering my car was slightly more than I expected, but it all fits with the NH "pay for what you use" kind of ethos.
posted by gladly at 1:13 PM on May 13, 2009
If I had to move there now? I'd live as close to downtown Lebanon as possible, specifically close to this coffee/pub place.
I can't comment at all about quality of life Wilder, VT, except that I always liked driving across the border, and my friends were split evenly between VT residents and NH residents, and we socialized evenly in both states.
As a renter in New Hampshire, it was nice paying no state income tax and no sales tax. If I remember, registering my car was slightly more than I expected, but it all fits with the NH "pay for what you use" kind of ethos.
posted by gladly at 1:13 PM on May 13, 2009
Best answer: Taxes are a big deal and something you should really consider. If you live in VT you pay state income tax here. For me this is about 10% of whatever my federal income tax is. Not totally painful but it's still money. Then again different people think that living in either VT/NH has a certain sort of "cred" and that's another thing to consider. NH has the "live free or die" more libertarian bent, as a reputation, and VT has a more crunchy hippie anarchist bent. They're really pretty similar places honestly. NH has big cities and VT pretty much doesn't. NH has an ocean, VT has a really big lake.
I'm personally sort of smitten with White River Junction (sort of a village in the actual town of Hartford). It's got a funky interesting vibe to it, is pretty close to Hanover, very convenient to highways and yet you can live totally in the woods at the same time. The Center for Cartoon Studies is there. You can also still shop in Lebanon. Heck I live in Randolph, further into VT on 89, and I shop in Lebanon. Plowing is also a big deal. In VT the general rule is they don't plow down to the bare road until it's stopped snowing which often means not in time for your commute. With a good AWD car in the winter this isn't such a big deal but could be a problem. Also if you live in a dirt road your road is likely to be one big mud puddle for a lot of late March/early April. Also in terms of cheap pay attention to what's included. Things like heat and/or plowing can really add up if you're paying for them yourself and gasoline is cheapish now but might go back to $4 again which was a really sad time for everyone.
The only other thing you should know about the place is that there's a bus that goes from Hanover/Lebanon to Boston (and they newly added one to NY) that comes with free parking (in Lebanon) and is a great deal if you are someone that ever flies into or out of Logan. Nice bus, movies, wifi, etc. Welcome to the Upper Valley, feel free to ping me if you have more specific questions.
posted by jessamyn at 1:15 PM on May 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
I'm personally sort of smitten with White River Junction (sort of a village in the actual town of Hartford). It's got a funky interesting vibe to it, is pretty close to Hanover, very convenient to highways and yet you can live totally in the woods at the same time. The Center for Cartoon Studies is there. You can also still shop in Lebanon. Heck I live in Randolph, further into VT on 89, and I shop in Lebanon. Plowing is also a big deal. In VT the general rule is they don't plow down to the bare road until it's stopped snowing which often means not in time for your commute. With a good AWD car in the winter this isn't such a big deal but could be a problem. Also if you live in a dirt road your road is likely to be one big mud puddle for a lot of late March/early April. Also in terms of cheap pay attention to what's included. Things like heat and/or plowing can really add up if you're paying for them yourself and gasoline is cheapish now but might go back to $4 again which was a really sad time for everyone.
The only other thing you should know about the place is that there's a bus that goes from Hanover/Lebanon to Boston (and they newly added one to NY) that comes with free parking (in Lebanon) and is a great deal if you are someone that ever flies into or out of Logan. Nice bus, movies, wifi, etc. Welcome to the Upper Valley, feel free to ping me if you have more specific questions.
posted by jessamyn at 1:15 PM on May 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
You know what they say, Hanover is great, but go a bit south and you can get Wilder!
(They really do say this. I promise.)
If you're living in the area, you need to have an AWD/4WD vehicle anyway, and the two main drags you'd most likely take to get to and from, 5 and 10A, will be among the first roads plowed. Getting to 5 would be the only thing you'd need to worry about, so make sure you plot the route from house to 5, and be sure to check the driveway: A lot of Wilder is built into the sides of hills, with brutal driveways that aren't always paved.
Rent will likely be cheaper, but you'll probably give back at least that much if not more in sales tax from local purchases. True, NH is right there, but that's not going to help you when you run to the corner store.
That said, it may be a tax worth paying. Hanover ain't such a cool place to live post-college, and Lebanon/White River are definitely more compelling, culture-wise, for anyone over the age of 21. (A generalization, but one that's more true than not, I'd grant.)
Feel free to respond in-thread on MeMail if you have specific questions... I'm a Hanover townie by birth who spent plenty of time there after graduating (not from Dartmouth.)
posted by SpiffyRob at 1:25 PM on May 13, 2009
(They really do say this. I promise.)
If you're living in the area, you need to have an AWD/4WD vehicle anyway, and the two main drags you'd most likely take to get to and from, 5 and 10A, will be among the first roads plowed. Getting to 5 would be the only thing you'd need to worry about, so make sure you plot the route from house to 5, and be sure to check the driveway: A lot of Wilder is built into the sides of hills, with brutal driveways that aren't always paved.
Rent will likely be cheaper, but you'll probably give back at least that much if not more in sales tax from local purchases. True, NH is right there, but that's not going to help you when you run to the corner store.
That said, it may be a tax worth paying. Hanover ain't such a cool place to live post-college, and Lebanon/White River are definitely more compelling, culture-wise, for anyone over the age of 21. (A generalization, but one that's more true than not, I'd grant.)
Feel free to respond in-thread on MeMail if you have specific questions... I'm a Hanover townie by birth who spent plenty of time there after graduating (not from Dartmouth.)
posted by SpiffyRob at 1:25 PM on May 13, 2009
Following up on jessamyn's suggestion about WRJ, yeah, it's a really really cool place. Tip Top Cafe is a great restaurant that supports the hell out of local artists (including giving support to some galleries that are open above it) and Northern Stage puts on rather high-quality shows. It's the junction of I89 and I91, making travel a breeze. Only a couple of minutes drive to Hanover, Norwich, Lebanon, West Lebanon, Enfield, etc etc.
posted by SpiffyRob at 1:33 PM on May 13, 2009
posted by SpiffyRob at 1:33 PM on May 13, 2009
And (sorry!) if you ever have a day to kill and an itch to get to NYC, The Vermonter runs from WRJ to NYC once a day. Eight hours, $56.
posted by SpiffyRob at 1:35 PM on May 13, 2009
posted by SpiffyRob at 1:35 PM on May 13, 2009
How could I forget about WRJ?
Yeah, WRJ is a really cool place. And since a lot of Dartmouth students don't have cars, it doesn't get the same college-y vibe as Hanover.
posted by SNWidget at 1:50 PM on May 13, 2009
Yeah, WRJ is a really cool place. And since a lot of Dartmouth students don't have cars, it doesn't get the same college-y vibe as Hanover.
posted by SNWidget at 1:50 PM on May 13, 2009
Best answer: Did grad school at Dartmouth. Lived in Wilder for two years and Lebanon for three.
Wilder is a much smaller, quieter area of the Upper Valley. Consider it a kid of northern suburb of White River Junction. It was nice for me because it was a straight shot up to campus, but in hindsight it was a little too sleepy for my taste. Easy access to WRJ was nice, but you will have to take a car or bus to get there.
Hanover is almost completely focused on the College. I loved visiting downtown Hanover to shop and to eat - it was a great place to grab dinner and a movie. Still, rent is astronomical and the town has an odd vibe due to the heavy Dartmouth influence. Your mileage may vary...
My wife and I absolutely loved living in Lebanon. The rent is reasonable and the town had a great feel to it. You have interstate access to West Lebanon and White River Junction and highway access to Hanover. Storr's hill is right in town if you want to have a short ski session. It also has a very active downtown/green area. Highlights for us were the Lebanon Opera House and Salt Hill Pub. We lived two blocks off of the green and everything was within walking distance for us. Also, the bus system in the Upper Valley is free. I was able to take the bus from the Lebanon green right to the front door of my building in Hanover.
Not paying income tax in NH will make you feel like a king.
In general, the Upper Valley was an amazing area to live for a few years. We did end up missing some of the benefits of a larger city. Still, Boston is only two hours away, Montreal is three hours, and NYC is a little over four hours away. It was a lot of fun living there for a few years - I think you are going to love it.
posted by prefrontal at 2:32 PM on May 13, 2009
Wilder is a much smaller, quieter area of the Upper Valley. Consider it a kid of northern suburb of White River Junction. It was nice for me because it was a straight shot up to campus, but in hindsight it was a little too sleepy for my taste. Easy access to WRJ was nice, but you will have to take a car or bus to get there.
Hanover is almost completely focused on the College. I loved visiting downtown Hanover to shop and to eat - it was a great place to grab dinner and a movie. Still, rent is astronomical and the town has an odd vibe due to the heavy Dartmouth influence. Your mileage may vary...
My wife and I absolutely loved living in Lebanon. The rent is reasonable and the town had a great feel to it. You have interstate access to West Lebanon and White River Junction and highway access to Hanover. Storr's hill is right in town if you want to have a short ski session. It also has a very active downtown/green area. Highlights for us were the Lebanon Opera House and Salt Hill Pub. We lived two blocks off of the green and everything was within walking distance for us. Also, the bus system in the Upper Valley is free. I was able to take the bus from the Lebanon green right to the front door of my building in Hanover.
Not paying income tax in NH will make you feel like a king.
In general, the Upper Valley was an amazing area to live for a few years. We did end up missing some of the benefits of a larger city. Still, Boston is only two hours away, Montreal is three hours, and NYC is a little over four hours away. It was a lot of fun living there for a few years - I think you are going to love it.
posted by prefrontal at 2:32 PM on May 13, 2009
Mr. Zizzle lived In Burlington, VT for a few years. He'd make the drive from there to Boston with some frequency. In winter, the Vermont roads and highways were plowed instantly (thank you income tax). If nothing else, he could tell by the sudden lack of plowing and road conditions when he entered New Hampshire. I don't know how this will impact a decision to live on the border, but worth mentioning.
If I had to choose, I'd choose VT because then I could say I live in Vermont! But I'm biases because I love Vermont!
posted by zizzle at 3:37 PM on May 13, 2009
If I had to choose, I'd choose VT because then I could say I live in Vermont! But I'm biases because I love Vermont!
posted by zizzle at 3:37 PM on May 13, 2009
Response by poster: prefrontal - you've convinced me to look at more places in Lebanon. I definitely do not want the college-y vibe as I am in my late 20s and am looking more for what many of you have described in Lebanon and WRJ.
Back to the drawing board for places to live.
On that note, if anyone has any suggestions for places to live, visit, eat, & shop, I'm all ears. Thank you for all the information I have gotten so far.
posted by icy at 7:41 PM on May 13, 2009
Back to the drawing board for places to live.
On that note, if anyone has any suggestions for places to live, visit, eat, & shop, I'm all ears. Thank you for all the information I have gotten so far.
posted by icy at 7:41 PM on May 13, 2009
Notes: My wife gets her haircut in at Classy Cuts & Tans in WRJ - they aren't cheap but my wife prefers it to any place she's found here in MA. At this point, that means when we're going up to see my inlaws, she gets her haircut...
Cell Phone coverage: North of exit 13 it gets spotty for a while. Actually if you go anywhere outside of downtown Norwich it gets spotty. YMMV.
posted by Nanukthedog at 8:01 PM on May 13, 2009
Cell Phone coverage: North of exit 13 it gets spotty for a while. Actually if you go anywhere outside of downtown Norwich it gets spotty. YMMV.
posted by Nanukthedog at 8:01 PM on May 13, 2009
Just as a side note --
Wherever you go -- don't discount evaluating your rental's windows, insulation, etc. Heating in the area can go from $50/m to $400/m depending on fuel, size, etc. Avoid electric heat like the plague.
Hanover has a Dartmouth vibe to it. Wilder is kinda.. po-dunkity, though I can't claim to have spent vast amounts of time outside our office there. If you can swing Hanover and value living in a college town -- its what I would shoot for personally.
If you go with Vermont -- there is a "renters rebate" if you make under $50k HHI that might negate the income tax issue.
posted by SirStan at 8:16 PM on May 13, 2009
Wherever you go -- don't discount evaluating your rental's windows, insulation, etc. Heating in the area can go from $50/m to $400/m depending on fuel, size, etc. Avoid electric heat like the plague.
Hanover has a Dartmouth vibe to it. Wilder is kinda.. po-dunkity, though I can't claim to have spent vast amounts of time outside our office there. If you can swing Hanover and value living in a college town -- its what I would shoot for personally.
If you go with Vermont -- there is a "renters rebate" if you make under $50k HHI that might negate the income tax issue.
posted by SirStan at 8:16 PM on May 13, 2009
I have always taken WRJ as a cess pool that I couldn't imagine living in.
posted by C17H19NO3 at 1:19 AM on May 14, 2009
posted by C17H19NO3 at 1:19 AM on May 14, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by metahawk at 12:44 PM on May 13, 2009