Hard as a rock, now with more rocks.
April 23, 2009 8:24 AM Subscribe
I have a fairly large yard (1440 sq. ft.) in the Los Angeles area that is like a giant rocky slab of concrete mixed with a bit of 25 year old construction debris. I would like to have a beautiful yard in which I enjoy myself.
I've read this thread already but it is mostly focused on veggie planting. I'm not planting veggies as I already have 72 sq. ft. of raised beds elsewhere.
I'd like to plant a relatively low water garden and a small plot of lawn (maybe 200 sq. ft or so). Currently there is a barely alive mix of weeds and bermuda grass.
1st issue: There is no way in hell that a rototiller is going to cut into that soil.
2nd issue: When we bought the house the sprinkler system was broken and it hasn't been fixed yet so we need to do that too.
I wouldn't mind doing the "lasagna gardening" method if that would work with a lawn but it seems from what I've read that it needs to be worked too often to have lawn on top.
Any help would be much appreciated.
I've read this thread already but it is mostly focused on veggie planting. I'm not planting veggies as I already have 72 sq. ft. of raised beds elsewhere.
I'd like to plant a relatively low water garden and a small plot of lawn (maybe 200 sq. ft or so). Currently there is a barely alive mix of weeds and bermuda grass.
1st issue: There is no way in hell that a rototiller is going to cut into that soil.
2nd issue: When we bought the house the sprinkler system was broken and it hasn't been fixed yet so we need to do that too.
I wouldn't mind doing the "lasagna gardening" method if that would work with a lawn but it seems from what I've read that it needs to be worked too often to have lawn on top.
Any help would be much appreciated.
I'm a bit confused -- it sounded like you had a big concrete slab in the yard, but perhaps it's just incredibly compact hardpack dirt?
If that's the case, you'd be surprised what a big rototiller will cut into. Or you could rent/hire a bobcat to churn things up and remove the biggest debris.
posted by Pantengliopoli at 8:58 AM on April 23, 2009
If that's the case, you'd be surprised what a big rototiller will cut into. Or you could rent/hire a bobcat to churn things up and remove the biggest debris.
posted by Pantengliopoli at 8:58 AM on April 23, 2009
Have you got slope and drainage issues? If you add fill in the form of topsoil or large amounts of amendments like compost or mulch will you create potential water runoff or change of grade problems?
You have options other than a rototiller for breaking up and moving soil around. Check United Rentals or one of the other online catalogs for examples. There are some highly manuverable small tractors that can do a lot of work in a 1400 sq ft area.
Consider a single main irrigation supply pipeline with multiple risers with individual valves and timers for watering. Look into using CA natives and other drought tolerant plants.
posted by X4ster at 9:43 AM on April 23, 2009
You have options other than a rototiller for breaking up and moving soil around. Check United Rentals or one of the other online catalogs for examples. There are some highly manuverable small tractors that can do a lot of work in a 1400 sq ft area.
Consider a single main irrigation supply pipeline with multiple risers with individual valves and timers for watering. Look into using CA natives and other drought tolerant plants.
posted by X4ster at 9:43 AM on April 23, 2009
The Theodore Payne Foundation offers classes on how to create your own California native plant garden, and also has a nursery.
posted by mogget at 9:57 AM on April 23, 2009
posted by mogget at 9:57 AM on April 23, 2009
Best answer: From your brief description it sounds like the soil that is already there would loosen up a whole lot with a lot of organic amendments (i.e., compost) mixed in. "Lasagna gardening" works toward that without quite so much backbreaking labor as rototilling it all but it does take time.
Along the lines of lasagna gardening, but maybe more direct: if I were you and had the cash, I'd just punt, buy a few truckloads of topsoil and have it put on top of the existing soil. Hopefully in the fullness of time you'd get enough moisture, worms, root action, etc, that eventually organic stuff would start filtering down and the original soil will gradually improve. The danger here is that if the current soil really is impermeable, when you water the plants that are rooted in the topsoil, the water will pool at the interface between the topsoil and the hard original soil and that will be a problem.
Good luck to you, however you go. I've turned a few derelict yards into beautiful gardens and it is immensely satisfying. Have fun!
posted by Sublimity at 10:05 AM on April 23, 2009
Along the lines of lasagna gardening, but maybe more direct: if I were you and had the cash, I'd just punt, buy a few truckloads of topsoil and have it put on top of the existing soil. Hopefully in the fullness of time you'd get enough moisture, worms, root action, etc, that eventually organic stuff would start filtering down and the original soil will gradually improve. The danger here is that if the current soil really is impermeable, when you water the plants that are rooted in the topsoil, the water will pool at the interface between the topsoil and the hard original soil and that will be a problem.
Good luck to you, however you go. I've turned a few derelict yards into beautiful gardens and it is immensely satisfying. Have fun!
posted by Sublimity at 10:05 AM on April 23, 2009
"Another great advantage to the rear tine rototiller is that it can be used on hard soil."
Assuming your soil is just packed clay, and not bedrock, there are rototillers that can chop it up.
posted by zippy at 10:16 AM on April 23, 2009
Assuming your soil is just packed clay, and not bedrock, there are rototillers that can chop it up.
posted by zippy at 10:16 AM on April 23, 2009
Response by poster: Sorry - it is, indeed, very very packed clay.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:28 AM on April 23, 2009
posted by Sophie1 at 10:28 AM on April 23, 2009
Response by poster: Oh, and another issue - while I can get a rototiller into the yard, we can't drive anything into the back yard as it is completely walled in.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:32 AM on April 23, 2009
posted by Sophie1 at 10:32 AM on April 23, 2009
Sophie,
Is there a gate or any other access to the yard or is the only access through the house? The Toro Tx420 with tiller available as a rental is 20 Hp and is only 34 inches wide.
Southern CA adobe clay can be tough stuff to work with but with sufficient organic material it loosens up and can be very productive for growing plants. Mulch and compost are your allies.
posted by X4ster at 11:35 AM on April 23, 2009
Is there a gate or any other access to the yard or is the only access through the house? The Toro Tx420 with tiller available as a rental is 20 Hp and is only 34 inches wide.
Southern CA adobe clay can be tough stuff to work with but with sufficient organic material it loosens up and can be very productive for growing plants. Mulch and compost are your allies.
posted by X4ster at 11:35 AM on April 23, 2009
...if I were you and had the cash, I'd just punt, buy a few truckloads of topsoil and have it put on top of the existing soil.
We just had this done in our yard. We live on a mountain and our front yard was a layer of mulch thrown over extremely rocky, hard soil. We had 4-6" of topsoil laid down and sod put on half the yard. It was costly, but so worth it to avoid the pain of trying to grow something in our awful soil.
My advice? Get a landscaper to come out and give you an estimate. Tell them what you want done and they will tell you how to get there (and how much it will cost). Even if you don't end up hiring them for the job, you should at least get some idea of where to start.
posted by geeky at 12:50 PM on April 23, 2009
We just had this done in our yard. We live on a mountain and our front yard was a layer of mulch thrown over extremely rocky, hard soil. We had 4-6" of topsoil laid down and sod put on half the yard. It was costly, but so worth it to avoid the pain of trying to grow something in our awful soil.
My advice? Get a landscaper to come out and give you an estimate. Tell them what you want done and they will tell you how to get there (and how much it will cost). Even if you don't end up hiring them for the job, you should at least get some idea of where to start.
posted by geeky at 12:50 PM on April 23, 2009
Response by poster: There is a gate so we could definitely fit a tiller - just not a backhoe as someone above suggested.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:59 PM on April 23, 2009
posted by Sophie1 at 12:59 PM on April 23, 2009
Response by poster: Just an update - I covered the entire space with a literal crapload of manure and had a guy with a rear-tine tiller come in. Worked beautifully. The earth is now pretty crumbly for the first 6 inches and as I continue working in organic matter it should become more and more crumbly and workable. Now, for the sprinkler system!!!
posted by Sophie1 at 11:29 AM on April 30, 2009
posted by Sophie1 at 11:29 AM on April 30, 2009
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Be prepared to do a lot of work by hand, and buy bag after bag after bag of new soil to replace the debris you remove.
posted by kuppajava at 8:50 AM on April 23, 2009