Thanks again police
April 22, 2009 10:08 PM Subscribe
I'm almost certain these tickets are not worth fighting but who knows, maybe there's something I could do?
So last week I bought a motorcycle with the intention of selling it. I had some people help me work on it and got it running great, so I was in the process of selling it and decided I should test ride the bike before I sold it. I rode the bike down the block a few times and got pulled over. I had no plate, no insurance, and wasn't wearing a helmet (which breaks a learners permit violation) and the worst part was I was a block from my home but I know that doesn't matter. I do have the Title in my name though. Here's the tickets
1. Riding w/o insurance-240$
2. Failure to register-121$
3. Riding w/o a helmet-121$
But here's my thing, I was planning on selling the bike so like an honest seller I wanted to make sure the bike was in a safe and running condition, I'm not going to sell a bike that I have no idea if it runs good or not. I feel like since I just bought the bike and was test riding it for a sale there could be some kind of leeway but I really have no idea, the cop didn't seem to care that's for sure. Also, I was not given the option of what towing company to use, the cops called one in for me and the one they chose happens to be owned by a big local family who charges an outrageous amount for towing and they also killed my battery and didn't do anything about it.
So last week I bought a motorcycle with the intention of selling it. I had some people help me work on it and got it running great, so I was in the process of selling it and decided I should test ride the bike before I sold it. I rode the bike down the block a few times and got pulled over. I had no plate, no insurance, and wasn't wearing a helmet (which breaks a learners permit violation) and the worst part was I was a block from my home but I know that doesn't matter. I do have the Title in my name though. Here's the tickets
1. Riding w/o insurance-240$
2. Failure to register-121$
3. Riding w/o a helmet-121$
But here's my thing, I was planning on selling the bike so like an honest seller I wanted to make sure the bike was in a safe and running condition, I'm not going to sell a bike that I have no idea if it runs good or not. I feel like since I just bought the bike and was test riding it for a sale there could be some kind of leeway but I really have no idea, the cop didn't seem to care that's for sure. Also, I was not given the option of what towing company to use, the cops called one in for me and the one they chose happens to be owned by a big local family who charges an outrageous amount for towing and they also killed my battery and didn't do anything about it.
Best answer: You didn't say what jurisdiction you're in, but I've never heard of an exception to laws against driving without insurance or motorcycle riding without a helmet for "honest sellers." In fact, I think most legitimate sellers would have insured their bike and have a helmet. Maybe the judge will allow this as mitigation.
You should look into the failure to register citation. In many places you have a grace period after acquiring title before registration is mandatory. But it sounds like this might have more to do with your lack of plates.
For $482 and the black mark on your record, it might be worth a quick consultation with a lawyer.
posted by grouse at 10:23 PM on April 22, 2009
You should look into the failure to register citation. In many places you have a grace period after acquiring title before registration is mandatory. But it sounds like this might have more to do with your lack of plates.
For $482 and the black mark on your record, it might be worth a quick consultation with a lawyer.
posted by grouse at 10:23 PM on April 22, 2009
Response by poster: So when someone buys a used car are they obligated to buy insurance before they drive the car off the lot? I feel like everytime I've been at a transaction like that no one has ever had the car insured when they drove off, let alone go to the BMV to register the vehicle. Some people told me about the registration grace period and when I offered to show the cop my title he wouldn't look at it, saying it didn't matter. I know not having plates is a big no no but the guy I bought the bike off of wouldn't give me the plates and I didn't expect him to, I went to the BMV today and got the bike registered and I asked them about this, they said when I sell the bike I have to take my plates off and keep them. It seems like that's a loophole of some kind, if I have a registration grace period from the time I title transfer the bike but I'm not allowed to take the old plates.
posted by BrnP84 at 10:36 PM on April 22, 2009
posted by BrnP84 at 10:36 PM on April 22, 2009
Best answer: I got pulled over a few months ago, and didn't have my insurance or registration in the car. The cop gave me tickets for about the same amounts. So I went and renewed my registration (which I had been putting off since moving to a new state) and got my insurance squared away. When I went to court on "admit guilt but explain circumstances" (or something like that) I showed the documents to the judge and he immediately dismissed the charges and sent me on my way. It was awesome.
I think its worth a shot to go in and at least try to get the registration ticket taken off.
posted by osloheart at 10:46 PM on April 22, 2009
I think its worth a shot to go in and at least try to get the registration ticket taken off.
posted by osloheart at 10:46 PM on April 22, 2009
Best answer: It's always been in my experience that you needed insurance on the car before they will let you drive it off the lot. You broke the law, you knew you broke the law, pay the tickets and learn your lesson. Is it the same bike you were asking about in this question? From that question, it seemed like you rode this bike around. And if so, it doesn't make any sense why you couldn't take the plates off that bike and wear the helmet you should have been wearing while on that bike, and put them on this bike you "bought last week." Which in turn wouldn't have made you such an obvious target for the police.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 10:48 PM on April 22, 2009
posted by MaryDellamorte at 10:48 PM on April 22, 2009
Best answer: The police don't get to decide whether a crime has been committed, the judge does. So it doesn't matter that the policeman said it didn't matter. On the other hand, since he knows what jurisdiction you're in, maybe he knows what the judge will say. I just wouldn't necessarily take his word for it. On the other hand, the Indiana BMV's driver's manual says you have 31 days after sale to register, but that you must be registered to legally operate the vehicle. This meshes with what they told you.
I've always arranged for insurance before driving away a newly purchased used car.
posted by grouse at 10:50 PM on April 22, 2009
I've always arranged for insurance before driving away a newly purchased used car.
posted by grouse at 10:50 PM on April 22, 2009
Response by poster: Mary, no it wasn't the same bike, I honestly did just purchase this bike last week and received the new Title Mon. About the plate switching, I thought about it but that's illegal (well so is not registering or insuring the vehicle) but I figured any decent human cop would have seen that I just purchased the bike, have all my other vehicles insured, lived a block away, and have a near perfect record and would have taken it easy on me considering the circumstances. I know of other cases where someone has recently purchased a vehicle and only has a written title transfer on hand (I had the actual Title transfered in my name) and the cops let them go, understanding they had just purchased the vehicle. I guess more of my bitching is coming from "man don't the cops have better things to do" than me actually thinking I could get away with this. Still, I wasn't sure if there was some kind of recent purchase law or something.
posted by BrnP84 at 10:56 PM on April 22, 2009
posted by BrnP84 at 10:56 PM on April 22, 2009
Best answer: As far as insurance on a newly purchased vehicle, many insurance companies will bind coverage for a short time as a service to their customers. Under my policy, if I go buy a car, I'll be covered for up to thirty days. However, that depends on your particular insurance policy. If you try telling the judge that, you had better have some sort of documentation to back that up.
You're probably screwed here. You operated a vehicle that was not registered, and not covered, and in violation of your permit. The judge might overlook one of these items, but most likely not the combination. For example, say the bike wasn't registered, but you had your insurance card for another bike and you were wearing a helmet. Under the circumstances, the cop probably would have told you to go park the bike and left it at that. You can appeal to the judge's graces, and explain yourself, but there's no guarantees that he or she will help you out at all. But that's better odds than just giving up and paying the ticket without discussion.
Last bit of lecture: I know that you were just riding around the block, but the curbs and asphalt are just as hard near your house as the are anywhere else. Helmet, dude. Especially on your permit.
posted by azpenguin at 11:34 PM on April 22, 2009
You're probably screwed here. You operated a vehicle that was not registered, and not covered, and in violation of your permit. The judge might overlook one of these items, but most likely not the combination. For example, say the bike wasn't registered, but you had your insurance card for another bike and you were wearing a helmet. Under the circumstances, the cop probably would have told you to go park the bike and left it at that. You can appeal to the judge's graces, and explain yourself, but there's no guarantees that he or she will help you out at all. But that's better odds than just giving up and paying the ticket without discussion.
Last bit of lecture: I know that you were just riding around the block, but the curbs and asphalt are just as hard near your house as the are anywhere else. Helmet, dude. Especially on your permit.
posted by azpenguin at 11:34 PM on April 22, 2009
So when someone buys a used car are they obligated to buy insurance before they drive the car off the lot?
Yes. Pay your tickets.
posted by tomatofruit at 11:36 PM on April 22, 2009 [2 favorites]
Yes. Pay your tickets.
posted by tomatofruit at 11:36 PM on April 22, 2009 [2 favorites]
Best answer: So when someone buys a used car are they obligated to buy insurance before they drive the car off the lot?
In every state I've lived in (five), yes.
posted by dirigibleman at 12:40 AM on April 23, 2009
In every state I've lived in (five), yes.
posted by dirigibleman at 12:40 AM on April 23, 2009
Best answer: So when someone buys a used car are they obligated to buy insurance before they drive the car off the lot?
Yes. You can buy insurance just for the day for this purpose. As well, in many places there is no grace period after insurance expires.
As someone else said, you might want to go to traffic court, explain the circumstances (and admit your guilt) and hope the judge will waive the fines.
I must say that I got pulled over the other day for driving through a yellow light and then switching lanes without signaling. On top of it all, I left my license in another jacket. However, I was honest with the cop, admitting that, yes, I had run a yellow light and had switched lanes without signaling, and was even able to tell him the name of the intersection (he had a brain fart and couldn't remember the street name). He let me off with a warning, saving me about $500.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:05 AM on April 23, 2009
Yes. You can buy insurance just for the day for this purpose. As well, in many places there is no grace period after insurance expires.
As someone else said, you might want to go to traffic court, explain the circumstances (and admit your guilt) and hope the judge will waive the fines.
I must say that I got pulled over the other day for driving through a yellow light and then switching lanes without signaling. On top of it all, I left my license in another jacket. However, I was honest with the cop, admitting that, yes, I had run a yellow light and had switched lanes without signaling, and was even able to tell him the name of the intersection (he had a brain fart and couldn't remember the street name). He let me off with a warning, saving me about $500.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:05 AM on April 23, 2009
Best answer: I doubt it will happen, but see if the prosecutor will drop the charges.
posted by gjc at 4:18 AM on April 23, 2009
posted by gjc at 4:18 AM on April 23, 2009
Best answer: For that amount, it's worth showing up, being honest, mature, and respectful, and conveying that you're not ordinarily the sort to do what you did. If these tickets come with a hit to your insurance rates, it's even more worth your time and effort. Don't use the circumstances as an excuse, but do state them as the context for your actions. With the right manner and some luck, I think you're likely to find some lenience.
posted by daisyace at 4:37 AM on April 23, 2009
posted by daisyace at 4:37 AM on April 23, 2009
Best answer: Oh, forgot to add- while the prosecutor probably won't drop the charges, it's possible (probable?) that he'll do a plea deal.
You: Mr. Prosecutor, I don't deny that I did these things. However, it was in the context of [explain]. Can I plead guilty to the registration charge and pay the fine, in return for you dropping the other charges? As you can see here [display documents], I DO have regular vehicle insurance, and I have sold the bike already.
Prosecutor: Fair enough. When we go before the judge, I'll offer that and we'll see what he says.
If he doesn't go for it, or there is no prosecutor (as sometimes happens in these kinds of courts), do the same thing before the judge. "Your honor, I did do these things. However, I'm not a deadbeat, I was just testing the bike before I sold it. I was driving at a safe speed and in a residential area. May I plead guilty to X and move for a dismissal of the others, or plead guilty to them all and ask for lenience on the fines? My intent wasn't to flaunt the law."
(And/or, look VERY closely at the laws in your state, and your insurance policy. See if your insurance policy covers what you were doing at the time you were doing it. See if the registration law has any provisions for "incidental" use of a vehicle. See if the helmet law has any loopholes. If there are any of these issues, bring them up. "As you can see, I did have insurance coverage at the time, and the registration law says X. Move to dismiss those and ask for lenience on the other." Etc.)
posted by gjc at 5:39 AM on April 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
You: Mr. Prosecutor, I don't deny that I did these things. However, it was in the context of [explain]. Can I plead guilty to the registration charge and pay the fine, in return for you dropping the other charges? As you can see here [display documents], I DO have regular vehicle insurance, and I have sold the bike already.
Prosecutor: Fair enough. When we go before the judge, I'll offer that and we'll see what he says.
If he doesn't go for it, or there is no prosecutor (as sometimes happens in these kinds of courts), do the same thing before the judge. "Your honor, I did do these things. However, I'm not a deadbeat, I was just testing the bike before I sold it. I was driving at a safe speed and in a residential area. May I plead guilty to X and move for a dismissal of the others, or plead guilty to them all and ask for lenience on the fines? My intent wasn't to flaunt the law."
(And/or, look VERY closely at the laws in your state, and your insurance policy. See if your insurance policy covers what you were doing at the time you were doing it. See if the registration law has any provisions for "incidental" use of a vehicle. See if the helmet law has any loopholes. If there are any of these issues, bring them up. "As you can see, I did have insurance coverage at the time, and the registration law says X. Move to dismiss those and ask for lenience on the other." Etc.)
posted by gjc at 5:39 AM on April 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I'm almost certain these tickets are not worth fighting
Every ticket is worth fighting! Worst case, you get the penalties you assumed you were going to get anyway.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:41 AM on April 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
Every ticket is worth fighting! Worst case, you get the penalties you assumed you were going to get anyway.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:41 AM on April 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
Best answer: gjc's approach will work.
The prosecutor (actually it probably will just be the clerk of the court) will agree right off the bat to halve the fines. So you want to do better than that. It's not for sure, but a competent traffic lawyer will charge you a couple hundred bucks to appear with you. This will speed things up and probably net you the best deal, perhaps even getting the charges dropped with a warning.
posted by zpousman at 6:36 AM on April 23, 2009
The prosecutor (actually it probably will just be the clerk of the court) will agree right off the bat to halve the fines. So you want to do better than that. It's not for sure, but a competent traffic lawyer will charge you a couple hundred bucks to appear with you. This will speed things up and probably net you the best deal, perhaps even getting the charges dropped with a warning.
posted by zpousman at 6:36 AM on April 23, 2009
Best answer: Nthing gjc - in this case your intent and maturity in dealing with said things is key. Technically speaking, yes, the law was broken, but it can't hurt to ask. Pleading guilty to one - and getting the others dropped - is far better than having three offenses...
posted by chrisinseoul at 8:07 AM on April 23, 2009
posted by chrisinseoul at 8:07 AM on April 23, 2009
Best answer: So when someone buys a used car are they obligated to buy insurance before they drive the car off the lot?
In Michigan you are. The dealer contacts your insurance agent with the VIN number and your insurance agent will make out the proof of insurance and fax the information back to the dealer for you while you wait. It's illegal to operate a motor vehicle without insurance, and very few dealers (used or new) will let you drive off the lot without it.
posted by Oriole Adams at 9:57 AM on April 23, 2009
In Michigan you are. The dealer contacts your insurance agent with the VIN number and your insurance agent will make out the proof of insurance and fax the information back to the dealer for you while you wait. It's illegal to operate a motor vehicle without insurance, and very few dealers (used or new) will let you drive off the lot without it.
posted by Oriole Adams at 9:57 AM on April 23, 2009
Response by poster: Well here's an update on what went down. I called the clerks office and they told me that I have 5 days to register my vehicle from the date of the ticket, so I had already done that and I got that dismissed. Than I asked them my chances of showing up to court and getting my case dismissed, the woman said in speeding ticket cases that happens often but in failure to insure they are pretty strict, which I could see. So another woman told me that most insurance policies offer a sort of blanket coverage, if I already have other vehicles insured than they would most likely cover any vehicle I own, regardless of whether or not I call them. They said they do this for the cases of people buying cars on the weekend. So I called my insurance and they said yes that was the case and they sent me an email showing that the new motorcycle has been covered since Mar 17 2009, even though I bought it in April. The helmet ticket is still there and I still had to pay the towing but I'm so happy right now I could smack my mama.
posted by BrnP84 at 12:01 PM on April 23, 2009
posted by BrnP84 at 12:01 PM on April 23, 2009
Response by poster: Oh one more thing, after thinking about the situation I was all ready to go in and attempt to contest my ticket, figured if I lose I pay the ticket anyway. I don't know how it works in other counties but they told me if I contested it and was found guilty than I have to pay 114$ for on top of the tickets and ALSO 1-1000$ based on the judge's ruling. So if this happens to anyone else I would find out about that before going in.
posted by BrnP84 at 12:05 PM on April 23, 2009
posted by BrnP84 at 12:05 PM on April 23, 2009
Good for you. "Suck it up and pay the ticket" is the worst advice for tickets. Keep in mind the cost of the ticket you get will always pale in comparison to the cost of the insurance rates that inevitably get bumped up. Always look into all your options, especially contacting a lawyer on what to do. Use them as a learning experience, and find out the laws specific to the situation.
Lastly, the extra 1-1000$ are the court fees that you have to buck up and pay if there is a finding (of guilt).
posted by P.o.B. at 10:54 PM on April 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
Lastly, the extra 1-1000$ are the court fees that you have to buck up and pay if there is a finding (of guilt).
posted by P.o.B. at 10:54 PM on April 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
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You've come out amazingly luckily. Pay the fines, pay the tower, get down on your knees, and thank your Maker.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 10:19 PM on April 22, 2009