Paranoia will destroy ya
April 8, 2009 5:41 PM   Subscribe

I am curious and concerned about my neighbors ability to listen in on my cell phone conversations. I am 99% sure that they are doing this.

Pertinent details: single female living in a rural area. I am surrounded by cows. I do not know any of my neighbors except to wave "hi". They seem to know a lot about me. When I do encounter them on a dog walk they always apologize about being crappy neighbors. Whatever. But then they say things that they shouldn't have ANY knowledge of. It confused me initially but now I believe that one of them must have a scanner of some sort. I have no land line. I have an obvious desire for privacy. Of concern is that I have been going through a very emotional time in the last year or so and have acted a fool on the phone. Very personal stuff that I am not proud of. What is my question? I am not really sure...
Can someone really buy such a device to listen in? Is it cheap? Do I have to give up my cell phone?
As a last comment, my parents bank at a place where one of my neighbors works and she says things to them that have made us all wonder. Do I have to give up my cell? I am not married to it by any means. What are my options? Thanks.
posted by anonymous to Technology (34 answers total) 5 users marked this as a favorite
 
It's easy to listen into portable phones, the kind where a landline goes to base station in your house/apartment you can roam fifty feet, because they broadcast in unencrypted analog. Cell phones, the kind that you carry in your pocket and use anywhere, broadcast in unencrypted digital, and are harder to intercept. (There used to be analog cell phones, I don't think many of those still exist. I remember when digital cellular came out, because I was very peripherally involved in that.)
posted by orthogonality at 5:47 PM on April 8, 2009


Is it possible that the reason they know things is actually because of rural/small town social networks?
posted by umbĂș at 5:48 PM on April 8, 2009 [6 favorites]


A modern cell phone communicates with the tower using encrypted digital signals. Unless your neighbors are the NSA, they cannot intercept your cell phone conversations.
posted by mr_roboto at 5:52 PM on April 8, 2009 [4 favorites]


Just how far do you live from your neighbors? They don't need to listen in on your cell phone conversation if they listen to you directly with a parabolic microphone.
posted by jedicus at 5:56 PM on April 8, 2009 [3 favorites]


Are you sure you're just not encountering rural gossip? If you're used to a more anonymous area, it can be a shock.

I'm in the middle of nowhere, rarely talk with my "neighbors", but that doesn't stop my mom from calling me with details about my neighbors' personal lives, finances, relationships, and church-going habits on a weekly basis.

I've found out about divorce filings before the other person in the marriage. More than once. This stuff gets spread across the countryside with a speed that shames cropdusters.
posted by Benjy at 6:01 PM on April 8, 2009 [4 favorites]


Is your cell phone in analog or digital mode? If it's in analog mode, it takes some skill to listen in but there seem to be several websites out there with information similar to this one at eHow.

If you're in digital mode and have a relatively new phone (<5>
If you're still worried, and are using analog mode, see if you can switch to a service that might have digital coverage in your area.

More likely, though, if they are listening in (are they really that bored?) -- they're doing something low-tech, like sitting in the hedges.
posted by smurdah at 6:04 PM on April 8, 2009


Agreeing with those above: it is very difficult to listen in to cell phone conversations. Very difficult. As in, very much not worth it just to hear some paltry phone conversations that your interesting neighbor engages in.

If a person went to the time, effort and expense it takes to listen in to cell phones, they'd damned well better be doing something more profitable about it. Like, say, parking next to some company's sales division so that they can catch some cell phone sales and steal credit card numbers.

I don't think you should worry.

But I do have some advice: ask people. Ask them how you they know. It's not weird; when they mention something, say: 'wait - how did you hear about that?' Keep smiling if you're afraid of being threatening or prying, but don't worry about it - you're not. It's your life. And don't be afraid to say 'hey, by the way, I was wondering: you mentioned x the other day. How'd you hear about that? People aren't talking, are they? That would be really embarrassing.'

You're not out of line asking something like that.
posted by koeselitz at 6:04 PM on April 8, 2009 [9 favorites]


Cell phone snooping is difficult, expensive, unlikely. It's not impossible, but Occam's razor doesn't support it here. More likely, as mentioned: (1) gossipy people at the bank, post office, other small-town rumor mills; (2) someone you trust is blabbing; (3) parabolic mike. As jedicus suggests, those are cheap and easy, and they do strike me as the sort of thing rural folks would have just to play with. You know, those big plastic dishes on a handle with headphones?

You sound paranoid, but maybe with good reason. So quell that by testing your cell phone theory, even if just to eliminate it, have this conversation with someone on your cell phone.... heck call me if you like...

"I don't trust (real person's name) at the bank anymore. I've decided to hide my money inside that oak tree in my back yard." (insert your own on-property landmark.) In fact, have three conversations the same day that mention that. "In case anything happens to me, my money is all in a can under the old oak tree." And so on.

Leave a can of, like, live bees overturned by the tree. Sit in your house that night, lights off, and watch.

At least you can eliminate "listening to my cell phone" after that.

Others may suggest better red herring 'messages' to plant with your phone. My brain is just crazy enough that 'can of bees' was the first thing that occurred to me.
posted by rokusan at 6:06 PM on April 8, 2009 [22 favorites]


The live preview looked okay, sorry. What I meant to say is that if you're in digital mode and your phone is relatively new, like, less than 5 years old, then no, they're not listening in. It's simply not worth the investment, time, and effort -- unless you're a rich heiress who shares her bank account numbers over the phone, or something.
posted by smurdah at 6:06 PM on April 8, 2009


Wireless phones at home communicate over well-known frequencies, but most of the recent ones transmit digitally. It was possible to eavesdrop on the older analog phones with any off-the-shelf scanner from Radio Shack.

The frequencies are still well-known, but without decoders, casual eavesdroppers won't have any luck hearing anything other than a hiss or buzzing sound. I checked rec.radio.scanner and some other places to see if there was any buzz (ha, ha) around listening to DECT traffic, but didn't come across anything.

For awhile, there were phones (and baby monitors) that used spread spectrum to transmit their signals, and they were the only types of those devices that I'd buy (as a former scanner head). It looks like there is some support in kismet for DECT detection, but it looks like it would only log activity (as opposed to letting someone actually listen in).

Analog cell phones were simple to tune in. Today, not so much. I'll second umbĂș - this sounds more like the small-town-telegraph at work.
posted by jquinby at 6:14 PM on April 8, 2009


Not saying anything about you, but I'm generally one of those people who should have been a cold reader, lots of us are good at picking up on other peoples vibes.

My bet is that it's pretty obvious that you've been...out of sorts. You probably walk with your head down, maybe shoulders slumped. You're quiet, don't engage your neighbors, but you also don't act like a bitch, so it's clear you're sensitive and maybe not entirely happy. Add into that that very first innocent thing they said which, for whatever reason, resonated with you, and now you're confirmation-biasing everything as you convince yourself they're out to getcha.

It's also possible that they're related to/go to church with/knock back a couple on a Saturday with some of the folks w/ whom you're having drama...or folks who know OF your drama, and word is traveling.

Or all of the above.
posted by TomMelee at 6:26 PM on April 8, 2009 [2 favorites]


The A5/1 algorithm used to encrypt consumer GSM voice channels in the US has been breakable since at least last February; you can watch a talk by one the guys who broke it here, which should actually make you less paranoid because it isn't easy or cheap.
posted by nicwolff at 6:34 PM on April 8, 2009


I agree with everyone above; intercepting and decrypting a cell-phone call would be phenomenally difficult. It's not the sort of bored-neighbor thing that someone would do just for fun, like listening in on an FM cordless phone or baby monitor with a scanner.

The only real way to "snoop" them in the wild, without cooperation from the phone company, is via a compromised microcell, and although it's possible to buy one of them if you were clever enough, you'd have to have a backhaul into the telephone network ... it's the sort of thing a well-funded government agency might have, not nosy neighbors.

The only other avenue of attack I can think of would be someone with access to the cellular phone tower, basically performing an illegal wiretap. I'm not an expert on that but I don't think it would be trivial; someone would have to be unimaginably stupid to do it to you just for kicks. I might bring the question up to some people I know who work in the wireless telcom industry but I'm already nearly certain I know what they'll say: very difficult and huge risk of getting caught.

I suspect that there's a much lower-tech type of snooping going on, of one sort or another.

Of course, they could have bugged your house ... (cue creepy music)
posted by Kadin2048 at 6:40 PM on April 8, 2009 [1 favorite]


Intercepting cellphone traffic is, as discussed in great detail above, enormously difficult for pretty much any non-govt agency. Further, rural communities are famous for knowing everything about everyone, and presumably there was someone else on the other end of that line when you were embarrassing yourself. Someone who may not be as circumspect as you think.

You've leapt to a technically-unlikely explanation with relatively little evidence. The question then becomes: why?
posted by aramaic at 6:47 PM on April 8, 2009


I lived in several rural communities over the span of ten years. People love gossip, and it"s surprising what they can find out.
posted by KokuRyu at 7:17 PM on April 8, 2009


Facebook, twitter, or a personal blog might be the information leak you have here... people pay more attention to this than it sometimes seems.
posted by Deep Dish at 7:37 PM on April 8, 2009


What about simple 'spy' bugging equipment - you can get stuff from toy shops that will have great range in the rural airwaves.
posted by Xhris at 7:41 PM on April 8, 2009


Is it possible that the person or people you've been talking to on the phone has been repeating the conversations? Even if they haven't been, it's certainly likely that you are the subject of gossip, especially if you're new to the area and if you are an outsider. Gossip is the lifeblood of rural areas and they ferret everything out eventually. It's not typically malicious but if you want privacy you're unlikely to get it in a farm community.
posted by fshgrl at 7:44 PM on April 8, 2009


Modern digital mobile phone technology is extremely difficult to intercept, there is no scanner that can pull a signal out of the air and decrypt it without help from the provider.
posted by mattoxic at 7:55 PM on April 8, 2009


Do you rent your house? Do you know who was there before? Could they have installed a bug or listening device? TO me that is the only paranoid yet reasonable explanation.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 7:59 PM on April 8, 2009


I live in the country, and I vote for rural gossip. A chatty person in a small-town bank is going to learn everything about everybody in about three days.
posted by PatoPata at 8:17 PM on April 8, 2009 [1 favorite]


I'm willing to bet it's just gossip, mostly because if someone was listening to your phone conversations, they'd have to be really stupid to come up and say something about them to your face.
posted by Nattie at 8:17 PM on April 8, 2009


Are you sure nobody in your family is spilling the beans? Moms love to talk to other moms about their kids' problems. At least I sure overhear a lot of that at pretty much every place I've worked with that employed moms, and in public.
posted by fructose at 8:26 PM on April 8, 2009


MY GOD there's an awful lot of people talking out of their collective asses here.

Yes you can easily eavesdrop on analog cell phone conversations. No there isn't much analog anymore, but yes it does still exist, especially in rural areas. I was just reading something about that last week -- now I can't find the reference. Bah!

I have a scanner that picks up analog cell calls (purchased and modified before Congress made it illegal) and it was fun to do when bored.

Definitely check to see if your phone is operating in analog mode when you call; if it is, then yes they can be monitoring you. If digital, I agree with those above that said it was basically impossible. Fuggedaboudit.

Sheesh!
posted by intermod at 9:02 PM on April 8, 2009 [2 favorites]


and thanks for the Kinks earworm :)
posted by intermod at 9:02 PM on April 8, 2009


Nthing rural gossip. It's quite astounding.
posted by desuetude at 10:21 PM on April 8, 2009


intermod: Yes you can easily eavesdrop on analog cell phone conversations. No there isn't much analog anymore, but yes it does still exist, especially in rural areas.

I grew up in a small town here in Colorado: Gunnison, population 6000. I have never seen an analog phone.

Yes, this is anecdotal evidence, and yes, the vast majority of analog cell phone users are in rural areas; but this is primarily now because, at this point, not a single one of the major carriers actually officially supports analog networks. The majority that are left are rural Alltel users; in fact, I sincerely doubt that anyone who isn't on Alltel is still managing to use analog.

By the way, I work for a government agency in Denver; not the most important government agency, but at any government agency it's important to make sure that things are secure. A few months ago, there was great concern over the growing number of people at work that conducted their business over cell phones; we were worried that this posed a security risk to any drive-by system hacker who wanted to delve into the Judicial business or records that we work with. So we did a study, for which I did some research, and it turned out that the people talking on their cell phones were usually actually more secure than the people who were talking on land lines at the office.

Yes, the analog thing is an off chance worth looking into, but unless the poster is on Alltel, it's unlikely that they're analog; and even if they are, it's not extremely likely. And if the poster isn't on analog, it would be ridiculously difficult to intercept calls.
posted by koeselitz at 10:22 PM on April 8, 2009 [1 favorite]


I can hear cell phone conversations on my police scanner, while it's in scanning mode. But, they are only one-sided conversations. Which means I can hear one person ask a question, but I cannot hear the answer. It's kind of weird. I have no idea who the callers are, though.
posted by Acacia at 10:33 PM on April 8, 2009


I think it's time to get to know your neighbors. It's been said that "idle hands are the devil's tools, but an idle mind is the devil's workshop." Give them something concrete to know about you, and the idle gossip will die away. I also get the feeling that you are very isolated where you are and are going through a hard time emotionally. Perhaps you are seeing connections that don't really exist?
posted by The Light Fantastic at 11:29 PM on April 8, 2009


Acacia: I can hear cell phone conversations on my police scanner, while it's in scanning mode. But, they are only one-sided conversations. Which means I can hear one person ask a question, but I cannot hear the answer. It's kind of weird. I have no idea who the callers are, though.

You're not hearing cell phone conversations; you're hearing cordless phone conversations. Cordless phone conversations are transmitted via unencrypted radio waves; as such, the signal can be picked up by radios which have more flexible frequencies than the standard AM/FM. I could pick up cordless phones on my dad's old short-wave when I was a kid, too. But cellular phone calls (at least GSM and CDMA, which make up almost all cellular phone traffic today) are encrypted electronically to be decrypted at the point of reception. Even if you could 'listen in' on cell phone conversations, all you'd hear would be the same sort of noise that you'd get if you plugged a set of headphones into a hard drive.

It'd be very tough (possible, I guess, but I don't know how - I'm not really a cell phone expert) to decode cell phone transmissions real-time. It seems to me that the easiest way to do it anyway would be to record transmissions and then brute-force decode them over the space of a few days with good old-fashioned processor power.
posted by koeselitz at 12:10 AM on April 9, 2009


Seconding TLF. Sounds like you are feeling pretty defensive in general, getting to know the people around you would probably be good, they arent your enemies; at worst they are just curious.

Regarding phone security (and this is more of a question for those better informed than I); my phone will connect to wireless networks so I could use a VOIP service (such as Skype) for calls. I believe this would be encrypted end to end; wireless networks are typically encrypted, and I believe VOIP is also encrypted.

From personal experience; you may feel very isolated and private out in the country, but the community is way stronger than in the city. Your privacy is pretty much at your neighbours discretion and the less they know, the more they talk...
posted by BadMiker at 5:29 AM on April 9, 2009


Is this scenario at all likely?

You: Walking in/out of the house looking upset, talking on the phone for what seems like hours.
Neighbor 1: Boy that new girl looked upset this afternoon.
Neighbor 2: Oh it is tough to be new in town. She probably doesn't like it here.
Neighbor 1: That coat isn't too flattering. She must not be used to the cold.
Neighbor 2: Myra at the grocery says she never buys any meat!
Neighbor 1: I bet she's a a vegetarian! That I do not understand at all.

Later that week:
Neighbor 1 goes to her job at the bank. She sees your parent(s).
Parent: I'd like to make a deposit.
Neighbor 1: Sure thing, dear. How is Anonymous?
Parent: Just fine thanks.
Neighbor 1: I know she's having a hard time adjusting to life here, but she'll come around.
Parent: Yes, well, she's going to be just fine now that she's starting her new job.
Neighbor 1: Oh wonderful.
They finish the bank transaction.
Neighbor 1: I have a nephew I can introduce Anonymous to if she's lonely.
Parent: I'm not sure she'd be interested, why don't you ask her?
Neighbor 1: Yes, I will. It must be hard to be a vegetarian in the winter. Tell her spring is 'round the corner!
Parent (puzzled): Will do...

Later that day:
Neighbor 1: Anonymous' parents came in. She has a new job!
Neighbor 2: Oh good, maybe she will cheer up a bit, poor thing.
Neighbor 1: Yes I mentioned how she didn't seem to like it here, and they didn't disagree!
Neighbor 2: Maybe we haven't been good neighbors, I'll go over tomorrow and say hello.
Neighbor 1: I mentioned my nephew Tom and they didn't seem interested at all!
Neighbor 2: Maybe she's a big-city lesbian.
...
Neighbor 1: I am definitely going over there to say hello.
posted by SassHat at 5:38 AM on April 9, 2009 [7 favorites]


You should ask these people how they know so much about your private life, and listen to what they have to say about it.

-
posted by General Tonic at 7:36 AM on April 9, 2009 [1 favorite]


I agree. You should ask them how they know so much.
posted by Zambrano at 9:14 AM on April 9, 2009


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