Help me read my PTO bylaws.
April 7, 2009 6:55 PM Subscribe
If you saw this in the bylaws for a PTO (Parent Teacher Organization) how would you read it?
"All financial records are open to inspection by the PTO membership, and monthly reports will be made at monthly PTO meetings."
A parent with in a PTO I am an officer in has a beef with how the books are being kept. They have requested an open-ended examination of the books and they are expecting to take away a copy of all transactions over the past year.
Is that request reasonable as to how our bylaws are worded?
A parent with in a PTO I am an officer in has a beef with how the books are being kept. They have requested an open-ended examination of the books and they are expecting to take away a copy of all transactions over the past year.
Is that request reasonable as to how our bylaws are worded?
It seems that they have a right to sit down and look at the books, but you don't have to provide them with a copy of the transactions. That said, do you really want to make them copy down everything or take pictures of each page or something like that?
Sounds like you'd head off a lot of bad feelings if you provided them with copies of the transactions and own up to any mistakes you made.
posted by lockestockbarrel at 7:00 PM on April 7, 2009
Sounds like you'd head off a lot of bad feelings if you provided them with copies of the transactions and own up to any mistakes you made.
posted by lockestockbarrel at 7:00 PM on April 7, 2009
I'd certainly say so. It doesn't imply that they will be open to inspection only at the monthly meetings, which is the only possible loophole someone may claim, at first guess. It sounds like the books are completely open to perusal to me.
posted by Brockles at 7:02 PM on April 7, 2009
posted by Brockles at 7:02 PM on April 7, 2009
There are rules for performing audits or financial reviews depending on what kind of organization you are - performing an open-ended review of the books can be time-consuming or a drain on resources. How are you incorporated? Who do you make reports to? Who is your bookkeeper?
posted by KokuRyu at 7:02 PM on April 7, 2009
posted by KokuRyu at 7:02 PM on April 7, 2009
Sounds to me like the PTO doesn't have to allow the parent to take away copies of everything. "Inspection" could mean that the records will occasionally be open for looking at, but not copying. "All financial records" sounds broad, but depending on past practice I think it might be reasonable to limit it to the more general documents: monthly balance sheets or whatever, rather than all the receipts for tea and cookies.
Allowing the parent to examine but not keep the records could conceivably simplify matters for you, because it denies the parent more concrete ammunition for holding up meetings. Still, I think the best approach is probably to try to disarm the parent by giving them everything; otherwise every monthly meeting may be held up by squabbling over financial reports.
posted by grobstein at 7:06 PM on April 7, 2009
Allowing the parent to examine but not keep the records could conceivably simplify matters for you, because it denies the parent more concrete ammunition for holding up meetings. Still, I think the best approach is probably to try to disarm the parent by giving them everything; otherwise every monthly meeting may be held up by squabbling over financial reports.
posted by grobstein at 7:06 PM on April 7, 2009
Given the wording of the bylaw, I (if I was a member) would expect unlimited access to the financial records. I would expect to negotiate a mutually convenient appointment to do so, and I would expect to pay a reasonable amount for copies or make them myself.
open-ended examination of the books...
I'm not sure what that means. It would be unreasonable to take original records off the premises, or to expect the PTO office to remain open open after business hours.
But really, transparency is the way to go.
posted by werkzeuger at 7:15 PM on April 7, 2009
open-ended examination of the books...
I'm not sure what that means. It would be unreasonable to take original records off the premises, or to expect the PTO office to remain open open after business hours.
But really, transparency is the way to go.
posted by werkzeuger at 7:15 PM on April 7, 2009
Copies of everything? Ask them how much they are willing to pay for photocopy expenses. Or set up an in person inspection at a mutually agreeable time for a mutually agreed upon time.
posted by mrmojoflying at 7:19 PM on April 7, 2009
posted by mrmojoflying at 7:19 PM on April 7, 2009
If I read that in the by-laws of an organization to which I belonged, I would expect to be able to review and take away copies of everything. Whether you technically have semantic wiggle-room to prevent that I'll leave to other commenters to answer.
But I will say: I would hope you have a good reason for preventing the copies. If the officer of the organization used semantic wiggle-room to prevent members from double-checking the books, I'd be pretty pissed. The spirit of the by-laws is to encourage transparency (and it's the age of Obama, man).
Yes, it will be annoying if some dude stands up at the next meeting and starts whining about whether it was reasonable to spend $x on refreshments at the last event. But I'd wager it will be a lot more annoying if he stands up and accuses you of hiding something.
posted by rafter at 7:19 PM on April 7, 2009
But I will say: I would hope you have a good reason for preventing the copies. If the officer of the organization used semantic wiggle-room to prevent members from double-checking the books, I'd be pretty pissed. The spirit of the by-laws is to encourage transparency (and it's the age of Obama, man).
Yes, it will be annoying if some dude stands up at the next meeting and starts whining about whether it was reasonable to spend $x on refreshments at the last event. But I'd wager it will be a lot more annoying if he stands up and accuses you of hiding something.
posted by rafter at 7:19 PM on April 7, 2009
I would expect to be shown the records, and be allowed to sit down and examine and/or copy anything I wanted. I would not expect someone be provided to hold my hand and spoon feed it to me or defend it against my accusations, or to make all the copies for me. I would expect that I would be able to write a letter questioning any discrepancies I might find, and have it looked into and answered in a reasonable amount of time.
See the difference? Should you let them see? Yes. Should you fall all over yourself in a panic like it was an IRS audit? No.
posted by ctmf at 7:26 PM on April 7, 2009
See the difference? Should you let them see? Yes. Should you fall all over yourself in a panic like it was an IRS audit? No.
posted by ctmf at 7:26 PM on April 7, 2009
I would expect to be able to review any and all of the financial records. If I wanted copies, I would expect to be able to get them. I would also expect to pay for these copies myself.
posted by Lucinda at 8:59 PM on April 7, 2009
posted by Lucinda at 8:59 PM on April 7, 2009
Seconding Lucinda.
The quoted bylaw is clear. All financial records (receipts, etc., are reasonably defined to be "financial records" unless that term is defined elsewhere). Open to inspection. Without limiting language elsewhere, this means full inspection. Could you conceivably limit them to looking at them in your presence? Yes, but why in god's name would you want to sit there with this person while they take their sweet time?
If it were me, I'd ask what the person was looking for and/or what documents they wanted to see. If they said "everything", I'd give them the option of sitting down with me and the books or paying to have them photocopied.
All you're going to do by trying to hide behind legalese in the bylaws is inspire distrust and animosity. Let them see the books.
posted by toomuchpete at 10:23 PM on April 7, 2009
The quoted bylaw is clear. All financial records (receipts, etc., are reasonably defined to be "financial records" unless that term is defined elsewhere). Open to inspection. Without limiting language elsewhere, this means full inspection. Could you conceivably limit them to looking at them in your presence? Yes, but why in god's name would you want to sit there with this person while they take their sweet time?
If it were me, I'd ask what the person was looking for and/or what documents they wanted to see. If they said "everything", I'd give them the option of sitting down with me and the books or paying to have them photocopied.
All you're going to do by trying to hide behind legalese in the bylaws is inspire distrust and animosity. Let them see the books.
posted by toomuchpete at 10:23 PM on April 7, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by box at 6:57 PM on April 7, 2009