Meat and 2 veg or 1?
March 23, 2009 10:26 AM   Subscribe

In addition to the main (meat or fish) part of the main course, what else should there be in an ordinary weekday family evening meal (excluding appetizer and dessert)? When I was growing up, I think we usually had meat and two vegetables, one of which was usually (but not necessarily) a generic starch: potatoes or rice. Now I'm not so sure.

I've recently become responsible for cooking and planning 3 meals a week in our home. Recipes and cooking are OK, but the "menu planning" is difficult for me -- putting 2 or 3 recipes together to make "a meal." I've looked at Martha Stewart's magazine "Everyday Food," which has dinner plans in the back. I'm surprised to see that most (but not all) of her dinners have a "main" and only one vegetable.

For example:
lamb chops + baked tomatoes OR mashed potatoes
risotto + beans and mushrooms OR asparagus and peas
chicken + mesclun OR green salad
etc.

My inclination would be to do the lamb AND the tomatoes AND the potatoes. My question has several parts:
1. Is this (one veg) nutritionally sound (I assume it is, or it wouldn't get into a popular magazine)?
2. Is this going to be satisfying quantity and taste-wise to my family?
3. Was my childhood family in a backwater with serving 2 veg with the main; or has there been a revolution; or is Martha a little eccentric here; or whatever?

I don't want this to turn into a trash-Martha-Stewart question. I'm assuming there's some validity to this and I'd like to go with it: for one thing, it's simpler. But I want to understand where she's coming from. Thanks.
posted by feelinggood to Food & Drink (17 answers total) 5 users marked this as a favorite
 
I prepare meals like when you were growing up. A meat/fish, a vegetable and a starch. Roast chicken + rice + green beans or Salmon + mashed potatoes + asparagus. I suppose the rice/potato/pasta side does not have the nutritional content as the others, so people not wanting to suck down the carbs would eliminate the portion first.
1. I think a single veggie is sufficient and nutritionally sound
2. Doesn't like satisfying to me! I like having three portions on my plate. I would always feel like I was missing something if I only had a meat and vegetable.
3. Your family sounds like mine. I think my mom always had a salad in addition to the 3 portions on our plate...

I think YOUR family's eating habits will prevail over Martha's opinion!
posted by boulder20something at 10:35 AM on March 23, 2009


We always had a salad, meat, vege, and dessert.

I personally don't like desserts, but the salad, meat, vege will give you the two (or three) veges you're looking for.
posted by torquemaniac at 10:35 AM on March 23, 2009


I'd say, your inclination is correct.
Potatoes and rice belong in the starch group. Think of necessary veggies as "green" or "yellow."
Beans and peas are always good choices, as they overlap the categories, furnishing qualities of veggies, starch, and protein.
A balanced meal does indeed, as when you were growing up, include protein (meat, eggs, cheese), a starch (like potatoes, rice, or noodles), a green or yellow veggie (or--even--purple, like eggplant, or red, like tomatoes! Technically, tomatoes are in the fruit group, although they have all the nutritional benefits of the veggies also.)
Appetizers and desserts are optional and can include fruits of all kinds. One of our favorite, very simple desserts is yogurt mixed with fresh strawberries or blueberries.
I don't know what's going on with Martha Stewart, but active adults and growing children need starch for energy and endurance.
posted by ragtimepiano at 10:36 AM on March 23, 2009


It is physically impossible to eat too many vegetables. If you want to put two or three on the plate, go ahead.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 10:49 AM on March 23, 2009


More important, IMO, than how many things are on the plate is whether the dish makes sense as a whole. One of the worst dietary habits of Americans is throwing a starch on a plate to fill up space and stomach. Not everything needs a side of pasta or potatoes. Likewise, the object of eating a meal is to be satisfied, not full.

For example, if you're roasting a chicken, it's often nice to roast some potatoes/carrots/parsnips with it because they soak up the juices. If you're just grilling a chicken breast, however, don't assume it needs those taters. If you're making risotto, it doesn't need a side at all except some greens with a light vinaigrette to cut through the richness.

Consider, as a point of reference, the Mediterranean diet.
posted by mkultra at 10:51 AM on March 23, 2009


Best answer: I do think most people will find that over the course of time they get plenty of what you call starches--potatoes, pasta, rice and other grains, bread products. I don't worry about always including one in every meal I plan, because I know that we're all getting them. I concentrate more on trying to include as many different vegetables as possible in each of my planned meals, with the knowledge that the average Western diet includes an abundance of protein and starches with very little effort.

I do find that it's perfectly satisfying to have, say, a piece of meat or fish and a ton of salad. It might not be the case if that were my dinner every night, and generally I do think in terms of a "rule of three" or at least a more complicated main course like, say, enchiladas which include plenty of protein and starch in each serving, paired with vegetables.

Everyday Food is aimed at the busy person who would like to prepare homecooked food on a small time budget, hence the simplicity of the meal plans. Consider that this busy person and his or her family are probably eating cereal for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch--erring on the side of a low-carb dinner would provide a balanced diet over the course of a day.
posted by padraigin at 10:52 AM on March 23, 2009 [1 favorite]


I prefer two vegetables myself rather than potatoes or rice or pasta.

The Healthy Eating Pyramid is one way of thinking about what to eat. Michael Pollan's books In Defense of Food (whence comes his oft-quoted advice, "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.") and The Omnivore's Dilemma offer another perspective. Dr. Andrew Weil's Eating Well for Optimum Health provides yet another.

Martha Stewart is not a nutritionist or a food scientist or a public health researcher, nor do the people who write up her recipes do much consulting of those folks. I tend to think that those folks have better advice on health and nutrition than the people who write recipes for a living, but that's just me.

(Note: I am myself occasionally paid to write recipes. The assignments one gets from an editor are not focused on health and nutrition.)
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:53 AM on March 23, 2009


"Not everything needs a side of pasta or potatoes."

*coughs into fist* MMmmmbullshit*cough* Man, everything needs potatoes!

We're a meat + veggie + starch house, though sometimes we combine a couple, like meat + starch (chicken and rice) or something. Plus on Friday-Is-Pizza-Night we elevate to the lofty Pizza Plane and just let the kids survive on homemade pizza (often with homemade ice cream for dessert!).
posted by wenestvedt at 11:03 AM on March 23, 2009


The fact that the vegetables were separated (an OR instead of an AND) in your case above is probably because of a possible backlash related to quantity of food/calories or inclusion of carbs. I agree that a meal consists of protein+veggie+carb, and seems incomplete otherwise. Note that some things like pasta with meat sauce have all three in one standalone food.

For your weekday meal plans, at least one food should be no-effort. For example, steamed broccoli, green beans, or asparagus require almost no work. Ditto for rice and instant couscous. So you are only left to think about how to prepare two things. If you're in a rush, have two no-effort foods at the same meal, like steamed broccoli and couscous. Fastest/easiest healthy dinner ever: baked salmon, steamed broccoli, and couscous.
posted by Simon Barclay at 11:12 AM on March 23, 2009


I think it really depends on your family's preferences. If you are okay without a starch but want to add something else, how about a salad? In my family we *always* have salad with dinner.

If you feel the need for a starch, there are plenty of easy ways to add that in. You can get boxed rice pilaf, couscous, etc in either the "health food" or "international" area of the grocery store. As you probably know, there are a million and one recipes for potatoes. I personally take russet potatoes, cut into chunks, brush on olive oil and shake on salt or seasoned salt, and microwave for 15 minutes.
posted by radioamy at 11:23 AM on March 23, 2009


There are a few things that go into assessing what is right for your family

- taste preferences
- nutrition sensibilities
- goals [i.e. are people skinny, fat, sedentary, active, what do they NEED out of the food they eat?]
- ease of prep and other facotrs involved in meal preparation (i.e. shopping, cleaning, time available)

The meat + two veg is standard but that's because it's super simple to reproduce in an endless variety of combinations and most of them will be decently nutritious. That said, there are tons of different ways to eat and this is just one that is popular among Western people. I tend more towards a Mediterranean diet because it's what I prefer, it has fewer calories with more protein and less meat which I have a hard time keeping in my often-out-of-town household. Most of my evening meals are soup + cheese + some bread thing and an apple. Alternately it's hummus + bread + apple + cheese + green/red pepper. Sometimes it's lean meat + saladish veggie. If I have starches it's usually brown rice, more fiber and a little less carbohydrates.

For many if not most Americans, the problem is often too much food [or the wrong sort] and not having not enough food. You can make meals the way you prefer but just pay a little bit of attention to portion control. If you want a side of potatoes, go for it, just make sure it fits in reasonably with the rest of the meal sizewise.

A few concepts that may be helpful in meal planning: food pyramid (I hate the thing but it's a good starting point for what a healthy diet should have more or less) complete protein, home economics. There are many ways to make nutritious tasty meals for your family.
posted by jessamyn at 11:46 AM on March 23, 2009


I often do the protein + green vegetable + starch, or protein + green + green + starch but fundamentally I know that including a starch with every meal is problematic. Particularly starches that break down quickly (high gylcemic index). So I'd definitely encourage you to lay off the starches like potatoes, pasta and white rice or switch them up with whole grain starches like couscous, wild rice or quinoa. They are often more flavorful and you can sometimes get by with a light bed of them instead of making them a major component of your meals.

I think the trend in cooking magazine is mimicking the tendency of some restaurants to go with a single vegetable paired with the protein and sauce. Basically that can be fun on an occasional basis but isn't always the best method for a family meal.
posted by vuron at 11:47 AM on March 23, 2009


For us, it depends on what it is we're making. We almost always have a salad or a cup of soup before dinner. Then, if we're having something like a stir-fry, it usually has a ton of veggies and is served over brown rice. A stew might be served over some sort of starch, and will usually also have a ton of veggies in it. If I'm making a pork chop, grilled chicken breast, or steak, I'll usually make a vegetable side, too.
posted by amarynth at 11:55 AM on March 23, 2009


Just poking my head in here as a vegetarian who is healthy, gets enough protein, and is learning the ins and outs of the complete meal:

There is no one good way to construct a meal. Sometimes I have two mixed veggie dishes and one starch. Sometimes I have one cutlet-type protein and one veggie. The other day I had tacos with beans and sweet potatoes and salsa in them. How many dishes does that count as? One, since it's all eaten together? Three, counting the potatoes and beans and salsa separately?

Keep variety in what you eat -- I aim for lots of natural color variation -- and put as many vegetables as you want on the plate.
posted by mismatched at 12:49 PM on March 23, 2009 [1 favorite]


You see, I always knew I had a mean mother, and now I know for sure. Our standard evening meal growing up was meat + starch + three veg of different colours. It's still how I cook by default, and I get antsy if there aren't a selection of vegetables.
posted by kjs4 at 3:27 PM on March 23, 2009


My rule of thumb is I want to see lots of colour on my plate. If it's just meat and starch, it looks boring (and thereby less nutritious). So I usually want something green, and am really happy if I also get something else (sweet potatoes, bell peppers, tomatoes)
posted by Gor-ella at 8:47 AM on March 24, 2009


Wow. I hadn't realized how prevalent the meat-and-sides schema remains. I didn't grow up with it and always thought of it as quaintly old-fashioned.
posted by tangerine at 10:48 AM on March 25, 2009 [1 favorite]


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