Got notice?
March 1, 2009 4:52 PM Subscribe
How do I find a new job when I'm required to give three months notice from the old, unrelated one?
Last year I came to the end of a fixed-term contract in the creative sector. Despite having offers for other contract work in the same sector I got recession cold-feet and decided to take a permanent post in a corporate organisation instead - a lot more cash, an easier commute, stability etc. However, 8 months in I'm going a bit crazy and realise I made a mistake. The environment is wrong for me (and me for it) and while I can fake it well enough for now I'm aware that the short-term wins are being gained at the expense of carving out a long-term, sustainable career in the area I love. If I were in my twenties I'd just sit it out for a while but I'm early 30s now and don't want to waste time.
The plan is to back to the type of work I had in the contract position but am a bit hamstrung by my corporate job's three-month notice period. I'm sending out applications for jobs but hearing nothing back at all, despite getting interviews and work offers before. I know there is more competition generally now but I also think my current job and salary is off-putting, and the notice period I'd need to give is too hefty.
I have four months worth of savings (no kids or debt) so there is a potential to quit now, and start serious hunting, maybe even doing some volunteer work to get back in there, but all the advice for leaving jobs in a recession is don't do it until you have something else lined up, so would this be madness?
Alternatively I could ignore the required notice - but is this legal (I'm in the UK)? Would I get a bad reference despite being a good employee, and if so, would this matter given my reasons for leaving? What approach should I take? Any thoughts welcome.
Last year I came to the end of a fixed-term contract in the creative sector. Despite having offers for other contract work in the same sector I got recession cold-feet and decided to take a permanent post in a corporate organisation instead - a lot more cash, an easier commute, stability etc. However, 8 months in I'm going a bit crazy and realise I made a mistake. The environment is wrong for me (and me for it) and while I can fake it well enough for now I'm aware that the short-term wins are being gained at the expense of carving out a long-term, sustainable career in the area I love. If I were in my twenties I'd just sit it out for a while but I'm early 30s now and don't want to waste time.
The plan is to back to the type of work I had in the contract position but am a bit hamstrung by my corporate job's three-month notice period. I'm sending out applications for jobs but hearing nothing back at all, despite getting interviews and work offers before. I know there is more competition generally now but I also think my current job and salary is off-putting, and the notice period I'd need to give is too hefty.
I have four months worth of savings (no kids or debt) so there is a potential to quit now, and start serious hunting, maybe even doing some volunteer work to get back in there, but all the advice for leaving jobs in a recession is don't do it until you have something else lined up, so would this be madness?
Alternatively I could ignore the required notice - but is this legal (I'm in the UK)? Would I get a bad reference despite being a good employee, and if so, would this matter given my reasons for leaving? What approach should I take? Any thoughts welcome.
Yep - 3 months sounds absolutely nuts. The only other time I've heard of that sort of notice is insiders within the financial industry changing jobs. In that case the company requiring you to give that sort of notice usually pays you your normal salary for that three months. Anything besides that just sounds like unnecessary hardship.
What it comes down to in most cases is how high up you are in the company. If you're just a mid level employee there's a good chance nothing will happen - not so if you're somewhat high up.
Also - do you know anyone else that has quit - can you contact them to see what their experiences were like?
But of course I'm not your lawyer, don't have knowledge of UK law, etc
posted by jourman2 at 5:17 PM on March 1, 2009
What it comes down to in most cases is how high up you are in the company. If you're just a mid level employee there's a good chance nothing will happen - not so if you're somewhat high up.
Also - do you know anyone else that has quit - can you contact them to see what their experiences were like?
But of course I'm not your lawyer, don't have knowledge of UK law, etc
posted by jourman2 at 5:17 PM on March 1, 2009
How exactly are you "required" to give 3 mo. notice? It seems that there are a lot more people looking for jobs these days than finding them. If you find one, I don't think that your company will have a huge standstill between you leaving and them finding somebody new. Certainly not three months. I think you're good. There may be 'rules', but truly, life isn't that rigid when humans are involved.
posted by iamkimiam at 5:26 PM on March 1, 2009
posted by iamkimiam at 5:26 PM on March 1, 2009
I tend to think it is seldom a good idea to break employment agreements of this nature--while I do not live in the UK I have done considerable consulting there--It is my observation that the mutual responsibilities in employment arrangements are much stronger there than in the States ( for instance, what is their requirement if you are made redundant). My professional advice is to honor the agreement and stay until you have secured alternative employment or until you have sufficient savings to give notice and leave without secure employment. If I were your employer I might give you a good reference ( based on performance) but I would mention you terminated employment without sufficient notice.
posted by rmhsinc at 5:33 PM on March 1, 2009
posted by rmhsinc at 5:33 PM on March 1, 2009
In the US, I have never heard of a three month notice requirement, but I have heard of employment where relocation or a signing bonus is contingent on staying for 6 or 12 months.
Is your employer bound to give you three months notice or severance if they lay you off?
posted by zippy at 6:01 PM on March 1, 2009
Is your employer bound to give you three months notice or severance if they lay you off?
posted by zippy at 6:01 PM on March 1, 2009
I don't think this is related to notice. Notice of over a month to leave is par for the course in many areas (though I agree, 3 months is a bit much and usually only for very senior roles). Also, a new employer rarely expects you to be able to arrive within two weeks - 1-2 months seems to be the norm if you are leaving another job.
Talk to HR and see whether there is any flexibility in this policy.
posted by wingless_angel at 6:38 PM on March 1, 2009
Talk to HR and see whether there is any flexibility in this policy.
posted by wingless_angel at 6:38 PM on March 1, 2009
Three months is not unusual. I have relatives in the UK who are on 6. You may be able to negotiate it down, especially given the stellar state of the economy.
posted by scruss at 6:39 PM on March 1, 2009
posted by scruss at 6:39 PM on March 1, 2009
Three months is normal in the UK (and is usually bilateral), and not providing it could land you with bad references. However, it is also normally quite negotiable, as long as you show willing to get the new person up to speed.
posted by blue_wardrobe at 7:33 PM on March 1, 2009
posted by blue_wardrobe at 7:33 PM on March 1, 2009
The plan is to back to the type of work I had in the contract position but am a bit hamstrung by my corporate job's three-month notice period. I'm sending out applications for jobs but hearing nothing back at all, despite getting interviews and work offers before. I know there is more competition generally now but I also think my current job and salary is off-putting, and the notice period I'd need to give is too hefty.
It would be one thing if you were getting job offers that were something like, "We'd love to hire you, anonymous, but this three months thing is a dealbreaker. Sorry!" It seems like a bad idea (to me) to leave a job in this economic climate without a new job lined up; and a crazy idea to leave a job when you have been actively job hunting and are not even getting interviews.
If you are putting your current salary and three-months-notice requirement on the applications you are sending out, maybe try leaving them off the next batch and see if that changes the responses.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:05 PM on March 1, 2009
It would be one thing if you were getting job offers that were something like, "We'd love to hire you, anonymous, but this three months thing is a dealbreaker. Sorry!" It seems like a bad idea (to me) to leave a job in this economic climate without a new job lined up; and a crazy idea to leave a job when you have been actively job hunting and are not even getting interviews.
If you are putting your current salary and three-months-notice requirement on the applications you are sending out, maybe try leaving them off the next batch and see if that changes the responses.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:05 PM on March 1, 2009
If you get a job offer, don't worry about the 3 months notice unless you think you may want to be rehired there. That's the only reason I can think of. I worked at the same hospital for 23 years. Because of my personal life going to hell, I couldn't live up to what was expected of me job-wise. I gave my required 30 day notice with 2 weeks of vacation to offset so I could quit after 2 weeks, which was approved. I was subsequently informed that I had to complete a certain number of tasks before I could quit and that I couldn't use my vacation time. I freaked out. Upon reflection, I realized I didn't owe them anything and quit on the original agreed upon date. Yes, I had to deal with an asshole supervisor telling me I couldn't do it, but I could, and I did. They probably will never hire me back, but so what?
posted by wv kay in ga at 8:49 PM on March 1, 2009
posted by wv kay in ga at 8:49 PM on March 1, 2009
In the US, a 3 months' notice requirement might be unenforceable (constitutional protections against "specific performance")?
posted by ZenMasterThis at 8:50 PM on March 1, 2009
posted by ZenMasterThis at 8:50 PM on March 1, 2009
I'm sending out applications for jobs but hearing nothing back at all, despite getting interviews and work offers before.
Unemployment is set to hit double-digit levels in the UK over the next year or so. I seriously doubt your notice period has a great deal to do with not getting responses.
Really, you need to consult a solicitor specialising in employment law, get them to review your contract and see what they say.
I, personally, would not look to be burning too many bridges right at the moment.
posted by rodgerd at 10:50 PM on March 1, 2009
Unemployment is set to hit double-digit levels in the UK over the next year or so. I seriously doubt your notice period has a great deal to do with not getting responses.
Really, you need to consult a solicitor specialising in employment law, get them to review your contract and see what they say.
I, personally, would not look to be burning too many bridges right at the moment.
posted by rodgerd at 10:50 PM on March 1, 2009
Nthing that 3 month notice periods are fairly common in the UK. I never heard of someone failing to complete their contractual notice period except in cases where people actually walk off the job in anger, whose bridges are burned whether they work their notice or not.
You'd think though, that in the current climate your employer might be VERY agreeable to the idea of renegotiating the notice period down, since it would mean they don't have to pay you as much.
posted by emilyw at 2:52 AM on March 2, 2009
You'd think though, that in the current climate your employer might be VERY agreeable to the idea of renegotiating the notice period down, since it would mean they don't have to pay you as much.
posted by emilyw at 2:52 AM on March 2, 2009
I'm on 3 month notice, it's completely normal in the UK, especially for jobs higher up the totem pole or in smaller organisations that would need time to transition responsibilities. It's also legally enforceable (i.e. a company could withhold pay, sue you or otherwise drop the bomb). In practice, most companies wouldn't, and most companies are also flexible enough to reduce the notice period if you have a specific reason, usually at the expense of losing some or all of your notice pay.
You may have acquired this notice period simply by virtue of your job title, and it might have little to no relation to the effect your leaving might have on the business.
If it were me and I knew it wasn't working out, I'd go to HR and ask to renegotiate your terms and conditions. You might get binned for that (although UK employers tend not to be all that quick on the sacking trigger, given the strong employment laws here) but I doubt it. As emilyw said above, I'd imagine, unless you are absolutely business critical, that they'll be quite happy to reduce it. In practice, you'd be putting in your notice though, as renegotiating it down is a pretty clear signal you want to leave. So, renegotiate, but be ready to leave ASAP and tell new employers that you're available to start ASAP.
posted by Happy Dave at 10:11 AM on March 2, 2009
You may have acquired this notice period simply by virtue of your job title, and it might have little to no relation to the effect your leaving might have on the business.
If it were me and I knew it wasn't working out, I'd go to HR and ask to renegotiate your terms and conditions. You might get binned for that (although UK employers tend not to be all that quick on the sacking trigger, given the strong employment laws here) but I doubt it. As emilyw said above, I'd imagine, unless you are absolutely business critical, that they'll be quite happy to reduce it. In practice, you'd be putting in your notice though, as renegotiating it down is a pretty clear signal you want to leave. So, renegotiate, but be ready to leave ASAP and tell new employers that you're available to start ASAP.
posted by Happy Dave at 10:11 AM on March 2, 2009
Please ignore any advice based on US law or practice.
Worst case scenario, you leave without giving the full contractual notice and they sue you for breach of contract in the county court. That would be unusual, as they would have to show actual loss, and it's unlikely they could demonstrate 3 months of lost work which they were unable to mitigate. But without knowing your situation, we can't say how quickly they could actually replace you.
posted by wilko at 12:46 PM on March 3, 2009
Worst case scenario, you leave without giving the full contractual notice and they sue you for breach of contract in the county court. That would be unusual, as they would have to show actual loss, and it's unlikely they could demonstrate 3 months of lost work which they were unable to mitigate. But without knowing your situation, we can't say how quickly they could actually replace you.
posted by wilko at 12:46 PM on March 3, 2009
The last job I was at required 2 months notice of leaving, and it was for a pretty junior position (I was a programmer with 2 years of experience). Not sure about UK, but where I was at (Singapore), it was pretty impossible to find a new job with such a notice period hanging over you.
In the end I had to pluck my balls and handed over the notice of leaving, without having a new job on hands.
posted by joewandy at 10:50 PM on March 10, 2009
In the end I had to pluck my balls and handed over the notice of leaving, without having a new job on hands.
posted by joewandy at 10:50 PM on March 10, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by All.star at 4:57 PM on March 1, 2009