I don't know why I can't think two steps ahead...
January 31, 2009 10:03 AM Subscribe
How do I get references for a second job (one I'd leave my current job for, not a concurrent one)?
I swear this question has been asked before, but I can't find it! Please help.
I got my first professional job out of grad school (a thesis-based MS in engineering) with only my advisor as a reference. He did not find the job for me; I found it through a relative. I'm still here, but a couple of years later, I'm feeling a bit restless and even though my company is massive, most of its opportunities seem to be of the paper-pushing rather than actual engineering sort and I'd sort like to go elsewhere and see a different environment.
Problem: I can't let people at my current job know I'd like to look outside the company (particularly because my manager has stated my retention as one of his goals) and I'm being asked for work references. My internship and undergrad experiences were more than 6 years ago, and I've totally lost contact with my supervisors from then (what an idiot 19 year old I was)...
---(1A) Is it odd to use my MS advisor again as a reference 2.5 years out of grad school?
---(1B) If not, what's the best way to approach him for this, since things haven't changed much for me professionally in the past couple of years (no real updates needed) and I felt weird just emailing to say hello? I believe we got along well, and he would remember me without prompting since our department was small and he didn't get a ton of grad students, but our relationship was not as close as say, that of a PhD student and his advisor.
---(2) What should I do about a work reference for my current job? I have a coworker in another department, but the same office whom I would trust to keep quiet, and another couple of coworkers from my [small] group whom have moved elsewhere in the company, but we're all at the same authority and work level. Would these references highly frowned upon by future employers? I'd be happy to furnish a copy of my very positive annual review in lieu of a reference.
---(3) How can I force myself to be better about staying in touch with coworkers, advisors, etc so I can worry less about this in the future? I'm rather introverted, and I feel this has harmed me throughout my life, and will continue to do so if I don't take some good, measured action here.
I swear this question has been asked before, but I can't find it! Please help.
I got my first professional job out of grad school (a thesis-based MS in engineering) with only my advisor as a reference. He did not find the job for me; I found it through a relative. I'm still here, but a couple of years later, I'm feeling a bit restless and even though my company is massive, most of its opportunities seem to be of the paper-pushing rather than actual engineering sort and I'd sort like to go elsewhere and see a different environment.
Problem: I can't let people at my current job know I'd like to look outside the company (particularly because my manager has stated my retention as one of his goals) and I'm being asked for work references. My internship and undergrad experiences were more than 6 years ago, and I've totally lost contact with my supervisors from then (what an idiot 19 year old I was)...
---(1A) Is it odd to use my MS advisor again as a reference 2.5 years out of grad school?
---(1B) If not, what's the best way to approach him for this, since things haven't changed much for me professionally in the past couple of years (no real updates needed) and I felt weird just emailing to say hello? I believe we got along well, and he would remember me without prompting since our department was small and he didn't get a ton of grad students, but our relationship was not as close as say, that of a PhD student and his advisor.
---(2) What should I do about a work reference for my current job? I have a coworker in another department, but the same office whom I would trust to keep quiet, and another couple of coworkers from my [small] group whom have moved elsewhere in the company, but we're all at the same authority and work level. Would these references highly frowned upon by future employers? I'd be happy to furnish a copy of my very positive annual review in lieu of a reference.
---(3) How can I force myself to be better about staying in touch with coworkers, advisors, etc so I can worry less about this in the future? I'm rather introverted, and I feel this has harmed me throughout my life, and will continue to do so if I don't take some good, measured action here.
---(1A) Is it odd to use my MS advisor again as a reference 2.5 years out of grad school?
If your new workplace finds it odd they will probably ask you about it directly and you can explain. If you do not explain it using the words "I hate people" you should be okay. Also have you just been out of touch with the internship people or have you totally lost all of the information irretrievably, because you might be able to send them an apology/beg for help letter with some sort of reference to maturing and wanting to keep more in touch in the future. In other words sorry I haven't been in touch but would you mind...The worst they can do is say no or not respond.
---(1B) If not, what's the best way to approach him for this, since things haven't changed much for me professionally in the past couple of years (no real updates needed) and I felt weird just emailing to say hello?
My college professors specifically requested having graduates send them an e-mail to let them know we'd be using their names, more to just let them know ahead of time so that they were ready for a phone call. It also gives him fair warning and a chance to refresh his memory on what you did there and what you were like. He might also have leads. I would just send him an e-mail saying, hey what's up, here's whats new with me, would you mind me using you as a reference, thanks.
---(2) What should I do about a work reference for my current job? I have a coworker in another department, but the same office whom I would trust to keep quiet, and another couple of coworkers from my [small] group whom have moved elsewhere in the company, but we're all at the same authority and work level. Would these references highly frowned upon by future employers? I'd be happy to furnish a copy of my very positive annual review in lieu of a reference.
Your idea about an annual review combined with fairmettles references upon request seems like a good plan. I think people at the same authority level are probably fine and have listed co-workers to no ill effect as of yet. Also it would probably be a good idea to clearly indicate on your resume that you are still working at your current job and who specifically they have permission to call. Many people will keep the name of the company confidential or on request to avoid a nasty situation in which your interviewer calls your current boss. It happened to a friend of mine who was leaving a company the same time I was, his new employers called the owner of the company to find out more about him and it was a disaster for him.
---(3) How can I force myself to be better about staying in touch with coworkers, advisors, etc so I can worry less about this in the future? I'm rather introverted, and I feel this has harmed me throughout my life, and will continue to do so if I don't take some good, measured action here.
Maybe just something as simple as Christmas cards or e-mails. Just schedule a time on some sort of calendar to ask them how they are doing and update them on whats new with you. Just don't be all networky about it. Legitimately want to hear how they are doing.
posted by edbles at 11:22 AM on January 31, 2009
If your new workplace finds it odd they will probably ask you about it directly and you can explain. If you do not explain it using the words "I hate people" you should be okay. Also have you just been out of touch with the internship people or have you totally lost all of the information irretrievably, because you might be able to send them an apology/beg for help letter with some sort of reference to maturing and wanting to keep more in touch in the future. In other words sorry I haven't been in touch but would you mind...The worst they can do is say no or not respond.
---(1B) If not, what's the best way to approach him for this, since things haven't changed much for me professionally in the past couple of years (no real updates needed) and I felt weird just emailing to say hello?
My college professors specifically requested having graduates send them an e-mail to let them know we'd be using their names, more to just let them know ahead of time so that they were ready for a phone call. It also gives him fair warning and a chance to refresh his memory on what you did there and what you were like. He might also have leads. I would just send him an e-mail saying, hey what's up, here's whats new with me, would you mind me using you as a reference, thanks.
---(2) What should I do about a work reference for my current job? I have a coworker in another department, but the same office whom I would trust to keep quiet, and another couple of coworkers from my [small] group whom have moved elsewhere in the company, but we're all at the same authority and work level. Would these references highly frowned upon by future employers? I'd be happy to furnish a copy of my very positive annual review in lieu of a reference.
Your idea about an annual review combined with fairmettles references upon request seems like a good plan. I think people at the same authority level are probably fine and have listed co-workers to no ill effect as of yet. Also it would probably be a good idea to clearly indicate on your resume that you are still working at your current job and who specifically they have permission to call. Many people will keep the name of the company confidential or on request to avoid a nasty situation in which your interviewer calls your current boss. It happened to a friend of mine who was leaving a company the same time I was, his new employers called the owner of the company to find out more about him and it was a disaster for him.
---(3) How can I force myself to be better about staying in touch with coworkers, advisors, etc so I can worry less about this in the future? I'm rather introverted, and I feel this has harmed me throughout my life, and will continue to do so if I don't take some good, measured action here.
Maybe just something as simple as Christmas cards or e-mails. Just schedule a time on some sort of calendar to ask them how they are doing and update them on whats new with you. Just don't be all networky about it. Legitimately want to hear how they are doing.
posted by edbles at 11:22 AM on January 31, 2009
I'm a bit confused; if the manager's goal is your retention, it sounds like he and his boss already expects you to leave. (It also sounds like he's a bad negiotiator...). As long as you've got offers on the table, you've got negotiating room. Of course, he may try to make life miserable for you as retribution, but we both know that has the opposite effect intended. In such a case, you should secure a reference from a coworker who's willing to confirm that your current boss is a massive prick who is willing to lie them to retain you.
If your Master's means anything, keep your adviser on as a reference; he's the best person to judge the quality of your thesis and probably the only person who knows how hard you worked. It would definitely suck to have them as your only reference.
As far as keeping in touch, traditionally roll-a-dex's are a way to keep business contacts on hand. Collect business cards, or make a database. Sales / businessmen are usually better about this than engineers; especially when their job involves calling people and convincing them to buy or invest. LinkedIn is one option that at least one HR department seems to love; I hate social networking sites though.
And of course, don't publish references unless you're asked directly. An invitation for resumes is not a direct request. You don't want to waste these people's time with frivolous requests. Some places even ask that you list references in addition to your current supervisor.
posted by pwnguin at 11:46 AM on January 31, 2009
If your Master's means anything, keep your adviser on as a reference; he's the best person to judge the quality of your thesis and probably the only person who knows how hard you worked. It would definitely suck to have them as your only reference.
As far as keeping in touch, traditionally roll-a-dex's are a way to keep business contacts on hand. Collect business cards, or make a database. Sales / businessmen are usually better about this than engineers; especially when their job involves calling people and convincing them to buy or invest. LinkedIn is one option that at least one HR department seems to love; I hate social networking sites though.
And of course, don't publish references unless you're asked directly. An invitation for resumes is not a direct request. You don't want to waste these people's time with frivolous requests. Some places even ask that you list references in addition to your current supervisor.
posted by pwnguin at 11:46 AM on January 31, 2009
Oh, and one way to stay in touch with these people is professional organization conferences. Tell them you're going to such and such conference and ask if they were planning to go as well. You can even try to get Mr "Employee-Retention's-A-Priority" Bossman to approve the thing: it's part of most engineering licensing requirements that you take refresher courses, and investment in employee training is a good way to demonstrate the value working for this large company.
posted by pwnguin at 11:55 AM on January 31, 2009
posted by pwnguin at 11:55 AM on January 31, 2009
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posted by fairmettle at 10:22 AM on January 31, 2009