"Hell no, you ain't getting my number..."
January 13, 2009 7:20 AM Subscribe
Help a below average looking guy get a date!
So I'm trying to get a date, but the odds are stacked against me. What can the hive suggest? Here are some info that might help. Sorry, it's a bit long, but its anon (got a few friends that occasionally browse here and don't want to get ribbed about this), so gotta get all the facts in first.
+ I'm 21, male, and am a student at very good university in the UK. Not had a LTR (month+) before.
+ I'm not the greatest looking guy in the world - although being fit and in pretty good shape, I'm short (5'7"), and my face is by most standards, pretty ugly. Let's not argue this, it's pointless and I can't do anything about it. I've learnt to accept that a long time ago. Hence, I've lowered my own standards myself.
+ Although I'm naturally introverted, I'm comfortable with socializing and get along well with people. For example, one of my guys I worked with and hung out with during the summer was convinced I was an party animal/extrovert and didn't believe me when I told him I was an introvert. Not afraid of any occasion really, I debated in school a lot and got used to giving big speeches. I have a healthy number of good friends. It's more skewed towards guys, but I do have several good female friends as well.
+ Got a few hobbies, such as poker and I also play a competitive team sport. I'm involved with a couple of other university societies as well. Generally everyone is quite busy to get involved in a lot more because of the workload during term. Should I join a more social society?
+ I'm pretty intellectual. Up to date with current affairs and I have a pretty strong opinion of most things, and not afraid of being controversial. Not sure this is a good thing or not?
+ Meeting new people isn't a big deal anymore. I used to really bad at this, but I've worked on this a lot, partly from reading other threads here in HR. However, the problem is that I don't tend to meet that many new people in the first place - I know most people in my subject pretty well, and others in different subjects tend to be a bit cliquey at times.
+ First thing most of you will come up with is alcohol. Sure, I've tried that, doesn't work so far. Never get anywhere, no matter how drunk I'm am/ everyone else are. Perhaps I'm not doing it right?
I suspect the underlining problem is that at 21 and in university where everyone is at the same level socially, looks count for a lot more than later on. How do I make up on the looks department? I know that girls can sniff a desperate guy like a shark, so I've been quite laid back about being single, maybe a bit too laid back. Either way, it's pissing me off when my good looking buddy can hit on girls no problem, and it take me 10 times the effort for them to even look at me in the eye. What advice can you offer? Should I just accept it and think about this after I graduate?
So I'm trying to get a date, but the odds are stacked against me. What can the hive suggest? Here are some info that might help. Sorry, it's a bit long, but its anon (got a few friends that occasionally browse here and don't want to get ribbed about this), so gotta get all the facts in first.
+ I'm 21, male, and am a student at very good university in the UK. Not had a LTR (month+) before.
+ I'm not the greatest looking guy in the world - although being fit and in pretty good shape, I'm short (5'7"), and my face is by most standards, pretty ugly. Let's not argue this, it's pointless and I can't do anything about it. I've learnt to accept that a long time ago. Hence, I've lowered my own standards myself.
+ Although I'm naturally introverted, I'm comfortable with socializing and get along well with people. For example, one of my guys I worked with and hung out with during the summer was convinced I was an party animal/extrovert and didn't believe me when I told him I was an introvert. Not afraid of any occasion really, I debated in school a lot and got used to giving big speeches. I have a healthy number of good friends. It's more skewed towards guys, but I do have several good female friends as well.
+ Got a few hobbies, such as poker and I also play a competitive team sport. I'm involved with a couple of other university societies as well. Generally everyone is quite busy to get involved in a lot more because of the workload during term. Should I join a more social society?
+ I'm pretty intellectual. Up to date with current affairs and I have a pretty strong opinion of most things, and not afraid of being controversial. Not sure this is a good thing or not?
+ Meeting new people isn't a big deal anymore. I used to really bad at this, but I've worked on this a lot, partly from reading other threads here in HR. However, the problem is that I don't tend to meet that many new people in the first place - I know most people in my subject pretty well, and others in different subjects tend to be a bit cliquey at times.
+ First thing most of you will come up with is alcohol. Sure, I've tried that, doesn't work so far. Never get anywhere, no matter how drunk I'm am/ everyone else are. Perhaps I'm not doing it right?
I suspect the underlining problem is that at 21 and in university where everyone is at the same level socially, looks count for a lot more than later on. How do I make up on the looks department? I know that girls can sniff a desperate guy like a shark, so I've been quite laid back about being single, maybe a bit too laid back. Either way, it's pissing me off when my good looking buddy can hit on girls no problem, and it take me 10 times the effort for them to even look at me in the eye. What advice can you offer? Should I just accept it and think about this after I graduate?
As a fellow man with below average looks, let me give you the following tips:
1. Guys like us won't get the supermodels: Most guys are naturally attracted to the best looking girls in the bar/class. My rule of thumb has been that people cannot normally attract those who are more than 2 points above them in looks. For example, if you're a 5, then forget about a girl who's a 10 (at least at first). Go for the girls who are 7's.
2. Don't be cheesy or try to use PUA techniques: Most women don't respond to cheesy come-on lines. Instead, work on having a meaningful conversation and engage the woman. Even if she's not interested, if she thinks you're a nice guy, she might put in a good word for you with a friend. Thus, hitting on women is probably out. Being a consummate gentleman is the way to go.
3. Talk about things you care or are passionate about: Enthusiasm is very attractive to anyone. Talk about your hobbies or other things you are very passionate about.
Good luck!
posted by reenum at 7:33 AM on January 13, 2009
1. Guys like us won't get the supermodels: Most guys are naturally attracted to the best looking girls in the bar/class. My rule of thumb has been that people cannot normally attract those who are more than 2 points above them in looks. For example, if you're a 5, then forget about a girl who's a 10 (at least at first). Go for the girls who are 7's.
2. Don't be cheesy or try to use PUA techniques: Most women don't respond to cheesy come-on lines. Instead, work on having a meaningful conversation and engage the woman. Even if she's not interested, if she thinks you're a nice guy, she might put in a good word for you with a friend. Thus, hitting on women is probably out. Being a consummate gentleman is the way to go.
3. Talk about things you care or are passionate about: Enthusiasm is very attractive to anyone. Talk about your hobbies or other things you are very passionate about.
Good luck!
posted by reenum at 7:33 AM on January 13, 2009
Speaking as a woman--
1) Work out a little more. I don't mean go crazy and overcompensate, but a homely face can absolutely be canceled out by a beautiful, fit body on someone who is physically active: climbing, hiking, cycling, rowing-- whatever makes you happy.
2) Relax and be funny.
3) Realize you won't be the guy taking home someone you met 5 minutes ago at a bar, but you'll have better luck with women you can "woo" a bit with personality, charm, flirting, the right kind of eye contact (almost no one has ugly eyes), etc.
4) Travel to America. Seriously....you would not believe the kind of guys who are average to ogreish in the UK who are suddenly sexy here due to the accent....
posted by availablelight at 7:39 AM on January 13, 2009 [9 favorites]
1) Work out a little more. I don't mean go crazy and overcompensate, but a homely face can absolutely be canceled out by a beautiful, fit body on someone who is physically active: climbing, hiking, cycling, rowing-- whatever makes you happy.
2) Relax and be funny.
3) Realize you won't be the guy taking home someone you met 5 minutes ago at a bar, but you'll have better luck with women you can "woo" a bit with personality, charm, flirting, the right kind of eye contact (almost no one has ugly eyes), etc.
4) Travel to America. Seriously....you would not believe the kind of guys who are average to ogreish in the UK who are suddenly sexy here due to the accent....
posted by availablelight at 7:39 AM on January 13, 2009 [9 favorites]
Intelligence, humor and being well dressed count for a lot. I'm currently dating someone who I wasn't initially all that attracted to and with a few nice dinners, gifts, a generally positive outlook on life and interesting things to talk about, we're now really enjoying ourselves, 1 year later.
The good news is that once you get a girl interested, you're likely to be fine. You're smart and from what it sounds like, interested in being a good boyfriend. Just keep at it until you find a girl who's willing to appreciate more of what you offer, as opposed to what you look like. V. astute observation though that while at university, that may be harder than later on in life.
posted by smallstatic at 7:44 AM on January 13, 2009
The good news is that once you get a girl interested, you're likely to be fine. You're smart and from what it sounds like, interested in being a good boyfriend. Just keep at it until you find a girl who's willing to appreciate more of what you offer, as opposed to what you look like. V. astute observation though that while at university, that may be harder than later on in life.
posted by smallstatic at 7:44 AM on January 13, 2009
Read availablelight's comment again. LOL Seriously, she's bang on with everything, especially the travel to north america thing. That whole story in the movie "Love Actually" where the guy went over to the united states and got mega action because he was british... well, it happens. Not to that degree, obviously, but there are hella lot of us ladies that are into accents and will be majorly into you for that reason alone. Then add in the fact that you are your awesome self with your funny and charming personality and you're golden!
Also, dress well and be classy. You'd be shocked at how far class, correct grammar, etiquette, and gentlemanly behaviour will get you with women. We're suckers for it.
posted by gwenlister at 7:55 AM on January 13, 2009
Also, dress well and be classy. You'd be shocked at how far class, correct grammar, etiquette, and gentlemanly behaviour will get you with women. We're suckers for it.
posted by gwenlister at 7:55 AM on January 13, 2009
Oh, and the alcohol thing? The goal is to have her be drunk enough to open to you (but not so drunk she is vomiting/falling over/you are taking advantage of her/etc), not you. You should stay buzzed but not three sheets to the wind. Or just abandon that idea all together, because its kinda lame and I can think of a single real relationship that sprang out of a beer goggles experience.
posted by gwenlister at 7:59 AM on January 13, 2009
posted by gwenlister at 7:59 AM on January 13, 2009
Go to a little more trouble than your peers.
Dress a little nicer: I don't mean that you should wear a suit and tie every day, that'd be strange, but wear jeans or pants that fit you well and are not worn out, consider wearing button-downs instead of t-shirts, and shoes or boots instead of sneakers. Pay a little more to get a good haircut. Shave daily or if you have facial hair, keep it neatly trimmed. Smell good. Don't overdo it with the cologne, but find a cologne or aftershave or whatever and use sparingly and consistently. Don't be lazy with the laundry, because it'll lend your clothes the college-guy unwashed laundry smell.
Be a really nice guy without being a doormat. Don't do outrageous favors for no reason other than to demonstrate your awesomeness, but take the high road, be generous, listen to people when they talk, and give them the benefit of the doubt the same way you'd like to be given the benefit of the doubt. Understated confidence and a healthy sense of self-esteem is really, really, really, really sexy when paired with generosity.
It's okay to not ever be the kind of guy who turns heads or gets the initial swoon. Sure, everyone likes attention from the guy with the magnetic charm, but just because women are paying attention to alpha dude doesn't mean that they can't think about you as well.
/dated my share of conventionally less-attractive guys. Has watched the nice guys start to come in first, rather than last, as I get older. Because they're totally better in bed, too.
On preview: Oh, yeah. American girls. Srsly. Average-looking guys with UK accent...it's like alchemy.
posted by desuetude at 8:10 AM on January 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
Dress a little nicer: I don't mean that you should wear a suit and tie every day, that'd be strange, but wear jeans or pants that fit you well and are not worn out, consider wearing button-downs instead of t-shirts, and shoes or boots instead of sneakers. Pay a little more to get a good haircut. Shave daily or if you have facial hair, keep it neatly trimmed. Smell good. Don't overdo it with the cologne, but find a cologne or aftershave or whatever and use sparingly and consistently. Don't be lazy with the laundry, because it'll lend your clothes the college-guy unwashed laundry smell.
Be a really nice guy without being a doormat. Don't do outrageous favors for no reason other than to demonstrate your awesomeness, but take the high road, be generous, listen to people when they talk, and give them the benefit of the doubt the same way you'd like to be given the benefit of the doubt. Understated confidence and a healthy sense of self-esteem is really, really, really, really sexy when paired with generosity.
It's okay to not ever be the kind of guy who turns heads or gets the initial swoon. Sure, everyone likes attention from the guy with the magnetic charm, but just because women are paying attention to alpha dude doesn't mean that they can't think about you as well.
/dated my share of conventionally less-attractive guys. Has watched the nice guys start to come in first, rather than last, as I get older. Because they're totally better in bed, too.
On preview: Oh, yeah. American girls. Srsly. Average-looking guys with UK accent...it's like alchemy.
posted by desuetude at 8:10 AM on January 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
Fellow not-so-good-looking guy here...
1. Never conclude that a woman is beyond your reach simply because she's beautiful. You're a good guy; she may be a great lady.
2. Practice talking about yourself. Not long speeches, mind you. Practice short descriptions of your job, each of your hobbies, your dog, that sort of thing. Practice them in the car, in the shower, anywhere you can. Practicing will help you to feel confident talking about yourself. This sounds dumb; but you are rehearsing a sales pitch. At some point, you'll be talking to a woman in whom you are interested and she's going to ask you about: you! Know your lines. :)
3. We less-handsome chaps have to defer flirting until a good deal of conversation has ensued. Good-looking guys can flirt on the strength of their looks; we flirt on the strength of our personality. The former is a quick and easy, the latter takes more time. I have found, however, that the latter has a higher rate of positive reception because the lady in question is already interested in you on some level that matters.
Carry yourself with confidence, brother! Some lass is out there unaware that you are heading your way. Rock her socks.
posted by DWRoelands at 8:14 AM on January 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
1. Never conclude that a woman is beyond your reach simply because she's beautiful. You're a good guy; she may be a great lady.
2. Practice talking about yourself. Not long speeches, mind you. Practice short descriptions of your job, each of your hobbies, your dog, that sort of thing. Practice them in the car, in the shower, anywhere you can. Practicing will help you to feel confident talking about yourself. This sounds dumb; but you are rehearsing a sales pitch. At some point, you'll be talking to a woman in whom you are interested and she's going to ask you about: you! Know your lines. :)
3. We less-handsome chaps have to defer flirting until a good deal of conversation has ensued. Good-looking guys can flirt on the strength of their looks; we flirt on the strength of our personality. The former is a quick and easy, the latter takes more time. I have found, however, that the latter has a higher rate of positive reception because the lady in question is already interested in you on some level that matters.
Carry yourself with confidence, brother! Some lass is out there unaware that you are heading your way. Rock her socks.
posted by DWRoelands at 8:14 AM on January 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
Recently I met a friend's coworker - he's six months' arrived from London (I live in the US). The amount of "omg accent" from the ladies was, to me as a straight male onlooker, downright hilarious.
You're absolutely right that uni isn't an ideal environment, either in terms of time (age of people involved) or social atmosphere.
I will, however, also point out that standards of attractiveness are really weird things. I've met more than a few guys who seemed to my eyes to be homely, with outstandingly attractive girls hanging off their arms. Sometimes they were particularly well-built; sometimes they just obviously were great people. But sometimes it was definitely a case of "not everyone is attracted to the same things." Example in myself: My "is this girl good-looking" filter for some reason completely ignores acne and acne scarring. I see it, I recognize it, but for whatever reason it has zero effect on whether I think someone's hot. I know someone who's annoyed with her boyfriend for losing his pot belly. Et Cetera. This isn't to say "you're hot, you just don't know it!" but rather that if you stick with it, date enough, you're going to run into girls who really, genuinely, truly think you're very attractive. Don't doubt them, because you are, to them - just as there are girls who think beards are horrible and those who think they're wonderful; just as some guys will look at a girl and say "amazing body" and others think "dear god that's a stick with boobs."
posted by Tomorrowful at 8:14 AM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
You're absolutely right that uni isn't an ideal environment, either in terms of time (age of people involved) or social atmosphere.
I will, however, also point out that standards of attractiveness are really weird things. I've met more than a few guys who seemed to my eyes to be homely, with outstandingly attractive girls hanging off their arms. Sometimes they were particularly well-built; sometimes they just obviously were great people. But sometimes it was definitely a case of "not everyone is attracted to the same things." Example in myself: My "is this girl good-looking" filter for some reason completely ignores acne and acne scarring. I see it, I recognize it, but for whatever reason it has zero effect on whether I think someone's hot. I know someone who's annoyed with her boyfriend for losing his pot belly. Et Cetera. This isn't to say "you're hot, you just don't know it!" but rather that if you stick with it, date enough, you're going to run into girls who really, genuinely, truly think you're very attractive. Don't doubt them, because you are, to them - just as there are girls who think beards are horrible and those who think they're wonderful; just as some guys will look at a girl and say "amazing body" and others think "dear god that's a stick with boobs."
posted by Tomorrowful at 8:14 AM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
For me, a sharp wit, confidence, and kindness always trump looks over the long haul.
As for looks- for some reason a great smile- with clean, white teeth (not necessarily perfectly straight) goes a long way. If you think your looks are below average- consider investing in really good smile upgrade- the kind of work that looks natural- not the Hollywood overhaul.
Also a clean shave, brows kept neat, healthy skin, and a bit of sun help enormously.
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 8:18 AM on January 13, 2009
As for looks- for some reason a great smile- with clean, white teeth (not necessarily perfectly straight) goes a long way. If you think your looks are below average- consider investing in really good smile upgrade- the kind of work that looks natural- not the Hollywood overhaul.
Also a clean shave, brows kept neat, healthy skin, and a bit of sun help enormously.
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 8:18 AM on January 13, 2009
work out and then meet lots and lots of people via match.com (or whatever)
posted by zeoslap at 8:18 AM on January 13, 2009
posted by zeoslap at 8:18 AM on January 13, 2009
You have the power to create. Your power is so strong that whatever you believe comes true. You create yourself, whatever you believe you are. You are the way you are because of whatever you believe about yourself. Your whole reality, everything you believe, is your creation. You have the same power as any other human in the world. The main difference between you and someone else is how you apply your power.
You have practiced all your life to be what you are, and you do it so well that you master what you believe you are. You master your own personality, your own beliefs, you master every action, and every reaction. The art of relationship is also a whole mastery, and the only way to reach mastery is with practice.
Humans live in continuous fear of being hurt, of being rejected. The way humans relate to one another is so emotionally painful that for no apparent reason we get angry, jealous, envious, sad. To even share a moment with someone we like can be frightening. In order to protect ourselves from emotional wounds, and because of our fear of being hurt or rejected, we create something very sophisticated in the mind -- a big denial system.
When you become aware that everyone around you has emotional wounds and fears, you begin to understand that you are not unique. The fear of not being good enough for someone else is crippling in relationship development. The key is to get past your denial. If you can train yourself, with practice, to get through the fear of rejection you can succeed beyond your perceived limitations. It will hurt at first, but you will learn not to take it personally. Just practice, because you are worth it.
I encourage you to read The Mastery of Love.
posted by netbros at 8:19 AM on January 13, 2009 [7 favorites]
You have practiced all your life to be what you are, and you do it so well that you master what you believe you are. You master your own personality, your own beliefs, you master every action, and every reaction. The art of relationship is also a whole mastery, and the only way to reach mastery is with practice.
Humans live in continuous fear of being hurt, of being rejected. The way humans relate to one another is so emotionally painful that for no apparent reason we get angry, jealous, envious, sad. To even share a moment with someone we like can be frightening. In order to protect ourselves from emotional wounds, and because of our fear of being hurt or rejected, we create something very sophisticated in the mind -- a big denial system.
When you become aware that everyone around you has emotional wounds and fears, you begin to understand that you are not unique. The fear of not being good enough for someone else is crippling in relationship development. The key is to get past your denial. If you can train yourself, with practice, to get through the fear of rejection you can succeed beyond your perceived limitations. It will hurt at first, but you will learn not to take it personally. Just practice, because you are worth it.
I encourage you to read The Mastery of Love.
posted by netbros at 8:19 AM on January 13, 2009 [7 favorites]
1. Be kind.
2. Be funny.
3. Wash and iron your well-tailored (not necessarily god-awful expensive) clothes.
4. Get a flattering haircut. Take a friend with you and have him/her help you choose a good style for your face and lifestyle.
5. Smile!
6. Find the really nice, smart girls. Not the ones giggling wildly at the frat parties, doing their best Paris Hilton impression ... but the ones hanging with friends at the library/coffee shop/indie bar/campus talk on something that interests you. Maybe just befriend her at first, talking about things that interests the two of you. Relax.
7. Be kind (I just feel like this bears repeating. At your age, if you're not a complete jerk, you'll already stand out.)
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 8:24 AM on January 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
2. Be funny.
3. Wash and iron your well-tailored (not necessarily god-awful expensive) clothes.
4. Get a flattering haircut. Take a friend with you and have him/her help you choose a good style for your face and lifestyle.
5. Smile!
6. Find the really nice, smart girls. Not the ones giggling wildly at the frat parties, doing their best Paris Hilton impression ... but the ones hanging with friends at the library/coffee shop/indie bar/campus talk on something that interests you. Maybe just befriend her at first, talking about things that interests the two of you. Relax.
7. Be kind (I just feel like this bears repeating. At your age, if you're not a complete jerk, you'll already stand out.)
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 8:24 AM on January 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
Allll of the above, plus two more tidbits:
Try dating a bit older than you, as well. I mean no offense to the 18- through 22-ish year old ladies on here, but many people (both men and women) at that age are still drawn to shiny, pretty things without looking much deeper than that due to lack of life experience. It might do you some good to find someone a bit older who has a bit more dating experience (read: has already figured out that a pretty boy ain't necessarily the, uh, package she's looking for). Seriously, when I look back on my own experience, I see a direct correlation between youth and what I appreciated as a college student and what I now appreciate as a grown woman whose age shall remain nameless. In more general terms, yeah....those boys sure were pretty back when I was 20 but they had all sense of a bag of hammers. Now, I want kindness and compassion and someone who can manage life well and the ones I loved the best in recent years weren't appearing on any magazine covers any time soon, but they were infinitely gorgeous to me.
Secondly, online dating can be a good help with this. You seem to write well and that can go a long way online. Also, if a lady is for whatever reason not interested in you physically after seeing your pic online, well, you won't even feel the sting because she's viewing you anonymously online. Sometimes that can be a bit easier to take than an in person rejection.
Good luck!
posted by December at 8:28 AM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Try dating a bit older than you, as well. I mean no offense to the 18- through 22-ish year old ladies on here, but many people (both men and women) at that age are still drawn to shiny, pretty things without looking much deeper than that due to lack of life experience. It might do you some good to find someone a bit older who has a bit more dating experience (read: has already figured out that a pretty boy ain't necessarily the, uh, package she's looking for). Seriously, when I look back on my own experience, I see a direct correlation between youth and what I appreciated as a college student and what I now appreciate as a grown woman whose age shall remain nameless. In more general terms, yeah....those boys sure were pretty back when I was 20 but they had all sense of a bag of hammers. Now, I want kindness and compassion and someone who can manage life well and the ones I loved the best in recent years weren't appearing on any magazine covers any time soon, but they were infinitely gorgeous to me.
Secondly, online dating can be a good help with this. You seem to write well and that can go a long way online. Also, if a lady is for whatever reason not interested in you physically after seeing your pic online, well, you won't even feel the sting because she's viewing you anonymously online. Sometimes that can be a bit easier to take than an in person rejection.
Good luck!
posted by December at 8:28 AM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think I was too harsh early. On the bright side think about this:
"Guys like us won't get the supermodels"
Not true, aside from Brooke Burke, most really good looking woman usually date guys that are just average but apparently pay a lot of attention to them.
Realize you won't be the guy taking home someone you met 5 minutes ago at a bar,
This may be true...but realize that you'll be the guy who gets to keep them and probably marry them.......
posted by The1andonly at 8:28 AM on January 13, 2009
"Guys like us won't get the supermodels"
Not true, aside from Brooke Burke, most really good looking woman usually date guys that are just average but apparently pay a lot of attention to them.
Realize you won't be the guy taking home someone you met 5 minutes ago at a bar,
This may be true...but realize that you'll be the guy who gets to keep them and probably marry them.......
posted by The1andonly at 8:28 AM on January 13, 2009
I have a good friend who has (self-confessed) the same problem. He started to go online dating with the opening words of his profile being "I know I'm not what would be considered conventionally attractive..." and went on to a very very complete, thorough, humorous and well-written profile. He got quite a few positive responses from it; idea being that beauty is only skin-deep.
posted by gadha at 8:30 AM on January 13, 2009
posted by gadha at 8:30 AM on January 13, 2009
Also, dress well and be classy. You'd be shocked at how far class, correct grammar, etiquette, and gentlemanly behaviour will get you with women. We're suckers for it.
Try dating a bit older than you, as well. I mean no offense to the 18- through 22-ish year old ladies on here, but many people (both men and women) at that age are still drawn to shiny, pretty things without looking much deeper than that due to lack of life experience.
Agreed x 1000 with both of these comments. There's some very good advice in this thread for you!
posted by bitter-girl.com at 8:53 AM on January 13, 2009
Try dating a bit older than you, as well. I mean no offense to the 18- through 22-ish year old ladies on here, but many people (both men and women) at that age are still drawn to shiny, pretty things without looking much deeper than that due to lack of life experience.
Agreed x 1000 with both of these comments. There's some very good advice in this thread for you!
posted by bitter-girl.com at 8:53 AM on January 13, 2009
One's self-perception of one's attractiveness can be quite skewed. Mirrors and photos don't show us as others see us, and we can over-focus on some small feature (eg the size of our nose) while others see the whole package'
Second, I think perceptions of male attractiveness are a lot more complicated than we sometimes think it is. As a straight guy, I'm frequently surprised by which men my female and gay friends get all excited over. To my eyes, it's some dude who just looks completely unexceptional, but there is something there that I'm not seeing that brings out the interest.
And third, I'm not convinced that there is any close tracking between "conventionally attractive" and "in a relationship." I work with a bunch of guys, and very few of us look like Brad Pitt. And yet, most have girlfriends or wives (or male partners, if they play that way).
It's not that good looks don't count for anything -- they do, in spades -- but that personality trumps beauty in a lot of close-up situations. When you say something like I have a pretty strong opinion of most things, and not afraid of being controversial, I wonder if you really mean that you are being confrontational and attention-seeking. The immature guy who thinks that loudly and frequently taking on some controversial position (often anti-feminist, libertarian, or similar) is a real boor to be around. Insecurity in general is boring and tiring to be around, actually, which underlines why so much advice centers on becoming more self-confident.
posted by Forktine at 8:59 AM on January 13, 2009
Second, I think perceptions of male attractiveness are a lot more complicated than we sometimes think it is. As a straight guy, I'm frequently surprised by which men my female and gay friends get all excited over. To my eyes, it's some dude who just looks completely unexceptional, but there is something there that I'm not seeing that brings out the interest.
And third, I'm not convinced that there is any close tracking between "conventionally attractive" and "in a relationship." I work with a bunch of guys, and very few of us look like Brad Pitt. And yet, most have girlfriends or wives (or male partners, if they play that way).
It's not that good looks don't count for anything -- they do, in spades -- but that personality trumps beauty in a lot of close-up situations. When you say something like I have a pretty strong opinion of most things, and not afraid of being controversial, I wonder if you really mean that you are being confrontational and attention-seeking. The immature guy who thinks that loudly and frequently taking on some controversial position (often anti-feminist, libertarian, or similar) is a real boor to be around. Insecurity in general is boring and tiring to be around, actually, which underlines why so much advice centers on becoming more self-confident.
posted by Forktine at 8:59 AM on January 13, 2009
I can't speak for all women, but I am really turned on by charisma, a very good sense of humor, and a streak of dominance. I'd rather be with a guy (or girl!) who is average or below average in looks with those qualities, than an attractive person with none of those qualities.
And stay away from those superficial sorority girl types.
posted by sixcolors at 9:17 AM on January 13, 2009
And stay away from those superficial sorority girl types.
posted by sixcolors at 9:17 AM on January 13, 2009
As a woman -
Dress nicely. Not so nicely that she's questioning your priorities, mind you, but enough to show you care about your appearance but aren't vain. Don't be afraid to accessorize a LITTLE bit. Like a good watch or a light chain necklace or a belt with an interesting buckle or something. Not all at once, of course. Pick one.
SMELL NICE. Not just clean. Shave and slap on some cologne (lightly). Avoid Old Spice unless you meet a girl who clearly says she likes the stuff. (I like it, but a lot of women don't.)
Get a new haircut, but ask your stylist's advice about what to do before you tell her to get the razor. I have no idea what your hair looks like now, but getting a new look - as long as you're comfortable with it - can do wonders for your self esteem.
Yeah, that self-esteem thing - STOP TELLING YOURSELF YOU'RE UNATTRACTIVE. Nobody should kid themselves they're model material. Even a lot of models aren't model material. But everyone is attractive to someone. It's all in the way you carry yourself, and a big part of what makes a guy sexy is his character.
So is confidence. Girls love a confident guy. You know how people say nice girls only like jerks? Well, that's because a lot of girls are suckered in by the guy's supposed confidence and end up being blind to his jackassery once they're already in love with him. Well, you don't sound like a jackass. You just need to be confident, and you'll be some girl's dream guy.
Now, for finding the woman - try going places where you can do things you love to do. Then you might meet a woman who shares your interests. Then it's easy to get things started. You see a pretty girl, you say, "Hey, I see you were looking at such-and-such. Have you tried bla-bla-bla?" without laying on the obvious hitting-on-you charm. You get a good conversation going. You make her laugh (a good, smart sense of humor is hands-down the biggest girl-getter). Then you ask her out.
posted by katillathehun at 9:19 AM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Dress nicely. Not so nicely that she's questioning your priorities, mind you, but enough to show you care about your appearance but aren't vain. Don't be afraid to accessorize a LITTLE bit. Like a good watch or a light chain necklace or a belt with an interesting buckle or something. Not all at once, of course. Pick one.
SMELL NICE. Not just clean. Shave and slap on some cologne (lightly). Avoid Old Spice unless you meet a girl who clearly says she likes the stuff. (I like it, but a lot of women don't.)
Get a new haircut, but ask your stylist's advice about what to do before you tell her to get the razor. I have no idea what your hair looks like now, but getting a new look - as long as you're comfortable with it - can do wonders for your self esteem.
Yeah, that self-esteem thing - STOP TELLING YOURSELF YOU'RE UNATTRACTIVE. Nobody should kid themselves they're model material. Even a lot of models aren't model material. But everyone is attractive to someone. It's all in the way you carry yourself, and a big part of what makes a guy sexy is his character.
So is confidence. Girls love a confident guy. You know how people say nice girls only like jerks? Well, that's because a lot of girls are suckered in by the guy's supposed confidence and end up being blind to his jackassery once they're already in love with him. Well, you don't sound like a jackass. You just need to be confident, and you'll be some girl's dream guy.
Now, for finding the woman - try going places where you can do things you love to do. Then you might meet a woman who shares your interests. Then it's easy to get things started. You see a pretty girl, you say, "Hey, I see you were looking at such-and-such. Have you tried bla-bla-bla?" without laying on the obvious hitting-on-you charm. You get a good conversation going. You make her laugh (a good, smart sense of humor is hands-down the biggest girl-getter). Then you ask her out.
posted by katillathehun at 9:19 AM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
There are plenty of people out there who are just as attracted to a guy's skills and interests as they are to his body.
So, f'rinstance, most girls may not care one way or another that you're a great debater. But there are a few who will — girls who do debate themselves, or theater, or who care about politics and public policy, and even probably a few who just think a well-spoken guy is hot. And if you can find out where those girls hang out on campus (a debate team? a political discussion group? some sort of activist group?) your odds will skyrocket.
Or, for a less nerdy example, there are plenty of girls out there who are attracted to a guy who can dance well. You say you're a pretty athletic guy. Find a style of dancing that appeals to you, and that attracts the sort of people you get along with — could be booty-shakin', could be swing dance, could be ballet, could be anything — and get good at it. And then go out dancing and enjoy yourself: don't be a dick, don't show off and posture, just look good and have fun. I guarantee you there will be at least a few girls present who will find you ten times as attractive as soon as you start dancing.
But, I mean, it could be anything. The point is, get good at the stuff you're into, and then find girls who are into that same stuff. It's a slower process, to be sure, and you can't just walk into a bar on a Saturday night and take home whatever girl catches your eye — but, hell, once you do find someone, you'll have a better and more interesting relationship anyway.
posted by nebulawindphone at 9:31 AM on January 13, 2009
So, f'rinstance, most girls may not care one way or another that you're a great debater. But there are a few who will — girls who do debate themselves, or theater, or who care about politics and public policy, and even probably a few who just think a well-spoken guy is hot. And if you can find out where those girls hang out on campus (a debate team? a political discussion group? some sort of activist group?) your odds will skyrocket.
Or, for a less nerdy example, there are plenty of girls out there who are attracted to a guy who can dance well. You say you're a pretty athletic guy. Find a style of dancing that appeals to you, and that attracts the sort of people you get along with — could be booty-shakin', could be swing dance, could be ballet, could be anything — and get good at it. And then go out dancing and enjoy yourself: don't be a dick, don't show off and posture, just look good and have fun. I guarantee you there will be at least a few girls present who will find you ten times as attractive as soon as you start dancing.
But, I mean, it could be anything. The point is, get good at the stuff you're into, and then find girls who are into that same stuff. It's a slower process, to be sure, and you can't just walk into a bar on a Saturday night and take home whatever girl catches your eye — but, hell, once you do find someone, you'll have a better and more interesting relationship anyway.
posted by nebulawindphone at 9:31 AM on January 13, 2009
This isn't to say "you're hot, you just don't know it!" but rather that if you stick with it, date enough, you're going to run into girls who really, genuinely, truly think you're very attractive. Don't doubt them, because you are, to them - just as there are girls who think beards are horrible and those who think they're wonderful; just as some guys will look at a girl and say "amazing body" and others think "dear god that's a stick with boobs."
This bears repeating. However unattractive you think you are, there are plenty of people out there who think you're attractive. Additionally, I think that in general, whether people think they're beautiful or ugly, they tend to overestimate how beautiful/ugly they are. Most of us are pretty average. There really isn't a universal or objective Hot-or-Not Scale out there, but if you absolutely have to think that way, skooch yourself a bit more towards 5 to 6 and you'll probably have a more accurate view of yourself. And that goes for me and you and everyone.
Grooming and dressing well will help you, especially if some of the features that make you "ugly" are easily groomed away. Think of your physical features in terms of the Serenity Prayer: you can't alter the shape of your nose, but you can trim any hairs that stick out of it; you can't change your height, but you can practice good posture, etc. Ask your good female friends to give you shopping/haircut/etc. advice, and experiment to see what looks good on you instead of trying to look like every other guy out there.
Another thing to think about: how people perceive your personality does affect how attractive they think you are. I admit I only have anecdotal experience on that, though I wouldn't be surprised if there were studies backing me up. I've dated people that I wouldn't have looked twice at in a bar - but after getting to know them, they started looking beautiful to me as well as having lovely personalities.
It sounds like you are getting a lot of things right so far, so don't give up and don't be hard on yourself.
(And, yes, if you're looking for an excuse to visit/study/live in the US, we are suckers for the accent.)
posted by Metroid Baby at 9:32 AM on January 13, 2009
This bears repeating. However unattractive you think you are, there are plenty of people out there who think you're attractive. Additionally, I think that in general, whether people think they're beautiful or ugly, they tend to overestimate how beautiful/ugly they are. Most of us are pretty average. There really isn't a universal or objective Hot-or-Not Scale out there, but if you absolutely have to think that way, skooch yourself a bit more towards 5 to 6 and you'll probably have a more accurate view of yourself. And that goes for me and you and everyone.
Grooming and dressing well will help you, especially if some of the features that make you "ugly" are easily groomed away. Think of your physical features in terms of the Serenity Prayer: you can't alter the shape of your nose, but you can trim any hairs that stick out of it; you can't change your height, but you can practice good posture, etc. Ask your good female friends to give you shopping/haircut/etc. advice, and experiment to see what looks good on you instead of trying to look like every other guy out there.
Another thing to think about: how people perceive your personality does affect how attractive they think you are. I admit I only have anecdotal experience on that, though I wouldn't be surprised if there were studies backing me up. I've dated people that I wouldn't have looked twice at in a bar - but after getting to know them, they started looking beautiful to me as well as having lovely personalities.
It sounds like you are getting a lot of things right so far, so don't give up and don't be hard on yourself.
(And, yes, if you're looking for an excuse to visit/study/live in the US, we are suckers for the accent.)
posted by Metroid Baby at 9:32 AM on January 13, 2009
Reflecting on my past dating experiences (before marrying Mr. Pluckysparrow), some of the relationships I remember most fondly were with men who were not considered stereotypically good-looking. A fabulous or off-beat sense of humor, an interest in specific things that I thought were cool (art, music, literature) and very good manners went a looong way in getting my attention. Girls like attention and like to feel that they are the brightest, most delightful thing in the room. Don't try to debate with a girl or make her feel dumb. I have a super smart male friend who who used to have a hard time getting dates. He was always interrupting women to correct their grammar or pronunciation, rattling off on some highly complex topic that other people don't really care or know about or trying to start some scholarly or political debate. Don't be like this!
posted by pluckysparrow at 9:34 AM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by pluckysparrow at 9:34 AM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
at 21 and in university where everyone is at the same level socially,
Not the case. I was once 21 and at a very good UK university, and really, it's as fragmented as anywhere else - it wasn't until I got to university that anyone thought to ask what my parents did for a living.
However, a lot of 21yr old male students are charmless, thick, interested in little other than getting pissed, lacking in deportment, or all three. If you are at Oxbridge, change 'a lot' to 'loads', based on visits and friend's reports! You sound a lot like the kind of guy I would have gone for - I'm attracted to passionate, opinionated, funny and not conventionally attractive guys. It could well be, however, that you either aren't attracted to girls who have this in common with me, or you haven't noticed they exist yet. I spent much of ages 16-22 thinking I was hideous, only later to find out that several people had huge crushes on me.
I have a super smart male friend who who used to have a hard time getting dates. He was always interrupting women to correct their grammar or pronunciation,
Yes. Do not do this. FTLOG, women HATE being patronised. And I've only ever been patronised by men who weren't as smart as me - it's a big sign of insecurity, and the worst kind.
posted by mippy at 9:46 AM on January 13, 2009
Not the case. I was once 21 and at a very good UK university, and really, it's as fragmented as anywhere else - it wasn't until I got to university that anyone thought to ask what my parents did for a living.
However, a lot of 21yr old male students are charmless, thick, interested in little other than getting pissed, lacking in deportment, or all three. If you are at Oxbridge, change 'a lot' to 'loads', based on visits and friend's reports! You sound a lot like the kind of guy I would have gone for - I'm attracted to passionate, opinionated, funny and not conventionally attractive guys. It could well be, however, that you either aren't attracted to girls who have this in common with me, or you haven't noticed they exist yet. I spent much of ages 16-22 thinking I was hideous, only later to find out that several people had huge crushes on me.
I have a super smart male friend who who used to have a hard time getting dates. He was always interrupting women to correct their grammar or pronunciation,
Yes. Do not do this. FTLOG, women HATE being patronised. And I've only ever been patronised by men who weren't as smart as me - it's a big sign of insecurity, and the worst kind.
posted by mippy at 9:46 AM on January 13, 2009
You're right - we can "sniff desperate guys like a shark". But same goes for confidence. Belief in oneself is by far one of the most attractive qualities a person can be in possession of, and I really think most people, men in particular, don't consider that particular avenue - either they go too big or not at all (note that I said confidence and not cockiness, and you'll go far). So with that said, stop saying you're unattractive. That just makes you MORE UNATTRACTIVE.
Nthing the well-dressed bit. Someone who looks well put together immediately grabs attention in a positive light, and you'll carry yourself a little higher mentally and physically than you would if you were in jeans and a t-shirt.
You say you're something of an intellectual, which is good. And you're not afraid of controversy, which is okay if you're looking for a debate. But you aren't, are you? No, you're looking for a lady friend. So dial down the controversy and dial up the humor. Make her laugh and you are already leaps and bounds above the "traditionally attractive" males who've probably pissed her off with an abhorrent one liner. You *do not* want the first impression you give to a woman to be that you are confrontational, even if it is just conversation.
I cannot overstate how important it is to smell good. Get a female friend and hit the department stores and find the cologne that smells best on you (never test just out of the bottle, because it will smell different, and possibly bad, when it mixes with your natural chemicals). This may take some time to get right, but the payoff is worth it.
It won't guarantee a number, but I promise you'll be remembered as the witty, humorous and well-dressed fellow who smelled amazing (and girls do tell their friends about these encounters), while most of the good-looking guys are forgotten.
posted by sephira at 9:50 AM on January 13, 2009
Nthing the well-dressed bit. Someone who looks well put together immediately grabs attention in a positive light, and you'll carry yourself a little higher mentally and physically than you would if you were in jeans and a t-shirt.
You say you're something of an intellectual, which is good. And you're not afraid of controversy, which is okay if you're looking for a debate. But you aren't, are you? No, you're looking for a lady friend. So dial down the controversy and dial up the humor. Make her laugh and you are already leaps and bounds above the "traditionally attractive" males who've probably pissed her off with an abhorrent one liner. You *do not* want the first impression you give to a woman to be that you are confrontational, even if it is just conversation.
I cannot overstate how important it is to smell good. Get a female friend and hit the department stores and find the cologne that smells best on you (never test just out of the bottle, because it will smell different, and possibly bad, when it mixes with your natural chemicals). This may take some time to get right, but the payoff is worth it.
It won't guarantee a number, but I promise you'll be remembered as the witty, humorous and well-dressed fellow who smelled amazing (and girls do tell their friends about these encounters), while most of the good-looking guys are forgotten.
posted by sephira at 9:50 AM on January 13, 2009
Nthing that standards of conventional beauty are often not as important as you'd think - and I would say that this isn't only true for LTR, but also for ONS/"hookups". Especially at a "very good University", I've found that looks are almost irrelevant (in males, that is) and that conventional good looks can even be detrimental to your social status. Being intellectual is good, being controversial is great. Looks get even less important once you're a bit older (25+).
(Oxbridge addendum - do you realize that a huge number of women find this pasty, chubby, shabby Oxonian, who shirks most standards of "conventional beauty" and has dubitable political positions, extremely hot? I, for one would definitely hit it. For women, attractiveness is a much, much wider concept than it is for men, and often, it has nothing to do with "beauty".)
posted by The Toad at 9:53 AM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
(Oxbridge addendum - do you realize that a huge number of women find this pasty, chubby, shabby Oxonian, who shirks most standards of "conventional beauty" and has dubitable political positions, extremely hot? I, for one would definitely hit it. For women, attractiveness is a much, much wider concept than it is for men, and often, it has nothing to do with "beauty".)
posted by The Toad at 9:53 AM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
So is confidence. Girls love a confident guy. You know how people say nice girls only like jerks? Well, that's because a lot of girls are suckered in by the guy's supposed confidence and end up being blind to his jackassery once they're already in love with him. Well, you don't sound like a jackass. You just need to be confident, and you'll be some girl's dream guy.
This is really the key point. Everything else is window dressing.
posted by mpls2 at 9:59 AM on January 13, 2009
This is really the key point. Everything else is window dressing.
posted by mpls2 at 9:59 AM on January 13, 2009
You're only as attractive as you think you are.
As a guy that used to think of himself as "below average", I had many chances with wonderful women that I unconsciously sabotaged before they ever had a chance to develop. I had already convinced myself that I didn't have a chance, so why bother trying.
Don't be that guy.
As others have said, women find all kinds of things attractive, and when you're first meeting someone, you'll have no idea what those things are.
If you can interact with some confidence and hold an engaging, inclusive conversation, you'll be fine.
On preview, exactly what they said.
posted by forforf at 10:04 AM on January 13, 2009
As a guy that used to think of himself as "below average", I had many chances with wonderful women that I unconsciously sabotaged before they ever had a chance to develop. I had already convinced myself that I didn't have a chance, so why bother trying.
Don't be that guy.
As others have said, women find all kinds of things attractive, and when you're first meeting someone, you'll have no idea what those things are.
If you can interact with some confidence and hold an engaging, inclusive conversation, you'll be fine.
On preview, exactly what they said.
posted by forforf at 10:04 AM on January 13, 2009
To be honest, being 21 sucks, everyone is shallow and cliquish in college. Wait a couple of years and things will be a lot brighter.
Some tips until then:
Dance. I know you don't know how, but do it anyway. Just jump around and have fun. Ladies love a man who isn't afraid to get crunk.
Be fashionably inventive: stop caring what other people think about what you wear to clubs and parties and wear a toga at a non-costume party. The mystery method goofy hat thing is douchey because it's trying too hard but it's the right direction -- either dress super classy and stand out from the slobs your age or dress like this guy and make em all wonder what the hell you're up to.
Stop playing poker: it's so 2005. ;-)
Get a wingman/woman. Especially the latter. Get women friends and talk to them about your dating aspirations and don't sulk about how they don't want to date you themselves and let them hook you up with their girlfriends.
Finally, grow a cool beard if possible. Not a bushy one, nor an overgroomed one with clear delineated lines-- take some beard trimmers and put a 1/4 inch guard on it and just shave with that for a while instead of a razor. Beards-- Covering up weird faces since 1961!
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:05 AM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Some tips until then:
Dance. I know you don't know how, but do it anyway. Just jump around and have fun. Ladies love a man who isn't afraid to get crunk.
Be fashionably inventive: stop caring what other people think about what you wear to clubs and parties and wear a toga at a non-costume party. The mystery method goofy hat thing is douchey because it's trying too hard but it's the right direction -- either dress super classy and stand out from the slobs your age or dress like this guy and make em all wonder what the hell you're up to.
Stop playing poker: it's so 2005. ;-)
Get a wingman/woman. Especially the latter. Get women friends and talk to them about your dating aspirations and don't sulk about how they don't want to date you themselves and let them hook you up with their girlfriends.
Finally, grow a cool beard if possible. Not a bushy one, nor an overgroomed one with clear delineated lines-- take some beard trimmers and put a 1/4 inch guard on it and just shave with that for a while instead of a razor. Beards-- Covering up weird faces since 1961!
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:05 AM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Ditch the low self-confidence. I cannot tell you how much sexier a clever, charismatic, gawky, brainy guy is than a man with a brilliantined smile and a good haircut. This is explains why women clap politely for John Edwards and swoon over Barack Obama.
posted by zoomorphic at 10:10 AM on January 13, 2009
posted by zoomorphic at 10:10 AM on January 13, 2009
I'd go into any room assuming you are as good as any other dude. Looks play a role in things, but they can't sustain something that is not there. The "there" can sustain things.
Women like confident guys because it means they won't have to give the guy too much emotionally--they aren't going to have to be constantly the center of the guy's world. Good looking guys just have more confidence because they get attention from women. Younger women tend to go for "jerks" because the guys don't want anything but you-know-what and it shows. When they get older they start to understand that the early signs of confidence aren't necessarily the sign of a good LTR. Dudes who think they ought to get girls because they aren't going to be jerks just aren't getting it.
No matter how hot the woman is, if she is free of a relationship and feeling OK about herself, she will like easy, nice, no-strings-attached beyond this conversation flirting that requires nothing of her but that she be paid attention to. Learn to enjoy that without expecting a single thing more other than that and you will be just fine.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:11 AM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Women like confident guys because it means they won't have to give the guy too much emotionally--they aren't going to have to be constantly the center of the guy's world. Good looking guys just have more confidence because they get attention from women. Younger women tend to go for "jerks" because the guys don't want anything but you-know-what and it shows. When they get older they start to understand that the early signs of confidence aren't necessarily the sign of a good LTR. Dudes who think they ought to get girls because they aren't going to be jerks just aren't getting it.
No matter how hot the woman is, if she is free of a relationship and feeling OK about herself, she will like easy, nice, no-strings-attached beyond this conversation flirting that requires nothing of her but that she be paid attention to. Learn to enjoy that without expecting a single thing more other than that and you will be just fine.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:11 AM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
I just wanted to chime in and say that Potomac Avenue's first two bits of advice would make me dislike you. I dated a "not conventionally attractive" guy in college (for 2+ years) and hung out with a ton of "average" looking people. I remember the guy who was clearly compensating for his own perception of his ugliness. He was a big dancer, liked to dress up in weird costumes, very loud... most of us gals called him "gross" (what can I say, it was college). He might have been a nice guy, but I never got to know him well, 'cuz he was gross. I recall thinking at the time, that if he calmed down, and showered and shaved every once in a while, he might be attractive.
So, to reiterate what nearly everyone said above, be nice, be clean and neat, if you want to dress differently to stand out, great! just be classy and a little understated about it. Be yourself, you'll find someone eventually.
posted by purpletangerine at 10:30 AM on January 13, 2009
So, to reiterate what nearly everyone said above, be nice, be clean and neat, if you want to dress differently to stand out, great! just be classy and a little understated about it. Be yourself, you'll find someone eventually.
posted by purpletangerine at 10:30 AM on January 13, 2009
Great wisdom abounds throughout this thread, so I'll be just spotlight a few super important highlights.
-Get a good, no, a great haircut. This is worth shelling out some cash for. You don't have to spend piles of cash, but be prepared to spend a bit more than you'd love to and try to find a stylist you can talk to. Form a relationship with him/her. Nothing increases both you confidence and your attractiveness like a hair style that really works for you.
-Dress well all the time. Particularly at that age, being well dressed makes you seem like a man with his shit together, not like a slobby student.
-Cultivate excellent listening skills and polite behavior. Be considerate and thoughtful to everyone, not just ladies your trying to impress. Again, this makes you seem like a man with his shit together, and that's something women notice.
-Seek out social avenues that will likely contain girls, specifically the type of girls you're interested in (presumably smart girls who appreciate intelligence, good conversation, and a bit of sophistication, and who are maybe a smidge older than you). Wine tasting is great for this, if you can find a place to do it. You're doing something classy, everybody's there to learn and ready to teach, and you've had just enough booze to feel loose. Similarly book clubs, author readings, stuff like that.
-Above all, remember that unless you are truly an ill groomed, borderline deformed, rank smelling guy, a great personality is enough. If you ask people to tell you what they love about their long term partners, most (non-shallow) people won't say "Oh, he's sooo hot!" They'll say he makes them laugh, that he's fun to be with, and that he's respectful and supportive. A deep mental connection with someone tends to make make them super sexy to you.
Good luck!
posted by mostlymartha at 10:39 AM on January 13, 2009
-Get a good, no, a great haircut. This is worth shelling out some cash for. You don't have to spend piles of cash, but be prepared to spend a bit more than you'd love to and try to find a stylist you can talk to. Form a relationship with him/her. Nothing increases both you confidence and your attractiveness like a hair style that really works for you.
-Dress well all the time. Particularly at that age, being well dressed makes you seem like a man with his shit together, not like a slobby student.
-Cultivate excellent listening skills and polite behavior. Be considerate and thoughtful to everyone, not just ladies your trying to impress. Again, this makes you seem like a man with his shit together, and that's something women notice.
-Seek out social avenues that will likely contain girls, specifically the type of girls you're interested in (presumably smart girls who appreciate intelligence, good conversation, and a bit of sophistication, and who are maybe a smidge older than you). Wine tasting is great for this, if you can find a place to do it. You're doing something classy, everybody's there to learn and ready to teach, and you've had just enough booze to feel loose. Similarly book clubs, author readings, stuff like that.
-Above all, remember that unless you are truly an ill groomed, borderline deformed, rank smelling guy, a great personality is enough. If you ask people to tell you what they love about their long term partners, most (non-shallow) people won't say "Oh, he's sooo hot!" They'll say he makes them laugh, that he's fun to be with, and that he's respectful and supportive. A deep mental connection with someone tends to make make them super sexy to you.
Good luck!
posted by mostlymartha at 10:39 AM on January 13, 2009
i have fallen for more than one unattractive guy. because they were kind and funny and shared similar interests. because they made me laugh and would snark with me. and this was all in college and high school when looks are more important than anything. sure, i would lust after the hot guy, but besides his looks, he didn't have much going for him.
but then again, i was the fat girl, so my only possible options were the unattractive guys. perhaps if i were hot i would have ignored the homely guys?
and, what desuetude said above.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 10:58 AM on January 13, 2009
but then again, i was the fat girl, so my only possible options were the unattractive guys. perhaps if i were hot i would have ignored the homely guys?
and, what desuetude said above.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 10:58 AM on January 13, 2009
A friend of mine is in your boat, as well as being bald, and he does OK. His formula is to smile and seem happy. "Chicks dig happy guys," he says.
posted by StickyCarpet at 11:52 AM on January 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by StickyCarpet at 11:52 AM on January 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
"Chicks dig happy guys," he says.
So true. Some of us dig goofy ones, too (I may be the only one, but I just love guys who make [good] silly puns).
posted by ocherdraco at 12:05 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
So true. Some of us dig goofy ones, too (I may be the only one, but I just love guys who make [good] silly puns).
posted by ocherdraco at 12:05 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
1. Looks have just a little to do with it, and have more to do with your clothes and presentation, than your face anyway.
2. Understand that you usually need to express interest many times to the same person, not just once. Emotional openness and interest require time.
3. Buy some flowers (at least one), a small gift once a month and a sweet word every two weeks will endear you to women.
4. Don't be shy to kiss her when you are alone. Just a small kiss is fine, but on the lips. It will be scary and feel awkward, but that's the hardest part. After that things will be more natural if it's right, or if not natural, it's the wrong situation.
5. In case it's not obvious, stick to single women who you respect in steps 1-4.
posted by peter_meta_kbd at 12:30 PM on January 13, 2009
2. Understand that you usually need to express interest many times to the same person, not just once. Emotional openness and interest require time.
3. Buy some flowers (at least one), a small gift once a month and a sweet word every two weeks will endear you to women.
4. Don't be shy to kiss her when you are alone. Just a small kiss is fine, but on the lips. It will be scary and feel awkward, but that's the hardest part. After that things will be more natural if it's right, or if not natural, it's the wrong situation.
5. In case it's not obvious, stick to single women who you respect in steps 1-4.
posted by peter_meta_kbd at 12:30 PM on January 13, 2009
I would think less about who's ugly and who's not. When you see a girl and think, "She's so pretty, she would never go out with me," you're making a judgment about her character based on her looks. Same when you judge yourself. "Ugly" is just an attribute, like "blond" or "tall"; it doesn't have to define your character or how you interact with the world. /soapbox
Get a good haircut and spend a few minutes on your hair in the morning. And wear nice shoes, not huge tennis shoes or nasty cheap loafers. They can be dress shoes or cool thrift store sneakers or whatever, but be deliberate about it. Wear undershirts. Get a well-fitting jacket. Make sure your glasses or contacts situation makes you look good. Try to figure out if you have any annoying physical habits. Shower every day...
Keep being laid back and do join a more social society, though I think just waiting it out might be your best bet.
posted by ramenopres at 1:09 PM on January 13, 2009
Get a good haircut and spend a few minutes on your hair in the morning. And wear nice shoes, not huge tennis shoes or nasty cheap loafers. They can be dress shoes or cool thrift store sneakers or whatever, but be deliberate about it. Wear undershirts. Get a well-fitting jacket. Make sure your glasses or contacts situation makes you look good. Try to figure out if you have any annoying physical habits. Shower every day...
Keep being laid back and do join a more social society, though I think just waiting it out might be your best bet.
posted by ramenopres at 1:09 PM on January 13, 2009
So, f'rinstance, most girls may not care one way or another that you're a great debater. But there are a few who will —
May I say, the one prevailing thing which makes a man attractive to me is mastery, of any subject or skill. If he can do it better than I can ever hope to ... well then, he is doing well. If you excel at debating, debate. And from that, the women who share your interest will follow. And then you will have something intrinsic between you, and not just you-yourselves.
posted by Tufa at 5:38 PM on January 13, 2009
May I say, the one prevailing thing which makes a man attractive to me is mastery, of any subject or skill. If he can do it better than I can ever hope to ... well then, he is doing well. If you excel at debating, debate. And from that, the women who share your interest will follow. And then you will have something intrinsic between you, and not just you-yourselves.
posted by Tufa at 5:38 PM on January 13, 2009
The mystery method goofy hat thing is douchey because it's trying too hard but it's the right direction -- either dress super classy and stand out from the slobs your age or dress like this guy and make em all wonder what the hell you're up to.
there was a mysterious boy at uni who always wore a three-piece suit - not in a douchebag City Boy kind of way, but like a Victorian gentleman. *Everyone* lusted after him. Nobody ever learned his name.
posted by mippy at 7:06 AM on January 14, 2009
there was a mysterious boy at uni who always wore a three-piece suit - not in a douchebag City Boy kind of way, but like a Victorian gentleman. *Everyone* lusted after him. Nobody ever learned his name.
posted by mippy at 7:06 AM on January 14, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by The1andonly at 7:30 AM on January 13, 2009 [3 favorites]