Skipping My Senior Year. Yay or Nay?
January 5, 2009 1:48 PM Subscribe
I want to skip my Senior year of High School and go to Culinary school instead. Is this a bad idea?
Firstly, can I take Culinary?
• I eat kosher. (No pork, shell fish, etc.)
• I will not work on Friday night through Saturday Night. (The Sabbath.)
• I'm allergic to fresh fruits, fresh vegetables, and nuts. (We're looking into that...)
If I can, there is a local technical school that has a culinary course. Somewhere along the line, somebody suggested that I take dual-credit Culinary courses during my senior year in HS. However, after investigating into the matter, it appears as if this would not be possible. However, the idea greatly appeals to me. Would it be a bad idea for me to get my GED this summer and enroll in the Culinary course next school year? If it makes a difference, I am home-schooled and would probably meet the graduation requirements.
I would do this so that I have a skill if/when the economy fails. Also, it gives me an opportunity to work places other than Burger King and Wal*Mart if/when I go to a four-year college.
In short:
• Can I take Culinary?
• Is it a bad idea to skip my senior year?
• Is it worth the work to make the extra money if/when I go to a four-year college?
Firstly, can I take Culinary?
• I eat kosher. (No pork, shell fish, etc.)
• I will not work on Friday night through Saturday Night. (The Sabbath.)
• I'm allergic to fresh fruits, fresh vegetables, and nuts. (We're looking into that...)
If I can, there is a local technical school that has a culinary course. Somewhere along the line, somebody suggested that I take dual-credit Culinary courses during my senior year in HS. However, after investigating into the matter, it appears as if this would not be possible. However, the idea greatly appeals to me. Would it be a bad idea for me to get my GED this summer and enroll in the Culinary course next school year? If it makes a difference, I am home-schooled and would probably meet the graduation requirements.
I would do this so that I have a skill if/when the economy fails. Also, it gives me an opportunity to work places other than Burger King and Wal*Mart if/when I go to a four-year college.
In short:
• Can I take Culinary?
• Is it a bad idea to skip my senior year?
• Is it worth the work to make the extra money if/when I go to a four-year college?
You can, but you're limited on what you can or are willing to interact with in terms of ingredients.
This is a bad idea.
No.
posted by iamabot at 1:52 PM on January 5, 2009
I'm confused why any restaurant in the world would hire you as a cook if you can't work when the restaurant is most busy and can't touch anything they cook except bread and meat. No offense, but "reasonably accommodation" only goes so far - I don't think you qualify. If you're trading getting a GED for a bit of extra money in college, I think you're vastly underestimating the value of your own time. Even if a GED is "degree equivalent", I doubt many schools would see it that way.
So, no, I don't know why you'd want to study culinary arts just for a bit of money, yes it is a bad idea to skip your senior year, and no, it isn't worth your work to make a bit more money. Students are poor - they all manage to deal with it without risking their education.
posted by saeculorum at 1:55 PM on January 5, 2009 [6 favorites]
So, no, I don't know why you'd want to study culinary arts just for a bit of money, yes it is a bad idea to skip your senior year, and no, it isn't worth your work to make a bit more money. Students are poor - they all manage to deal with it without risking their education.
posted by saeculorum at 1:55 PM on January 5, 2009 [6 favorites]
If you are allergic to "fresh fruits and vegetables and nuts", then no, you should not drop out of high school to go to culinary school, in my humble opinion, ymmv. But you probably aren't allergic to those things because that's deeply absurd.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:55 PM on January 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:55 PM on January 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Don't do it. That's my gut reaction. I knew a chef, he was the real deal (I had no idea what it was to be a chef until seeing this guy work - I had seen cooks, never a chef) and the contempt he had for Culinary school was interesting - yes, you do learn things, and useful things, but you spend a ton of money, your own money, and in the end you join the kitchen you will next work for right where you would if you had never gone to culinary school.
So, this stranger on the internet would recommend you stick out your last year of high school then go work in a kitchen. You might hate it and if you hate it, it's better having someone else pay you to find that out.
Alternatively, if you don't want to go into some kind of computer support, you could go into the building trades. Shoot for electrician or HVAC tech as the work is least grueling and the pay a little better than laborer.
posted by From Bklyn at 1:58 PM on January 5, 2009
So, this stranger on the internet would recommend you stick out your last year of high school then go work in a kitchen. You might hate it and if you hate it, it's better having someone else pay you to find that out.
Alternatively, if you don't want to go into some kind of computer support, you could go into the building trades. Shoot for electrician or HVAC tech as the work is least grueling and the pay a little better than laborer.
posted by From Bklyn at 1:58 PM on January 5, 2009
IANACBMFA
(I am not a chef but my friends are)
Condition #1 should be fine as long as you're still willing to work with those ingredients
Condition #2 will talk you out of a lot of jobs
Condition #3 sounds...odd.
I'd say get a fry-cook job somewhere if you can, see if you can hack it in a kitchen while you finish high school, then decide on a real culinary program if you want to do that.
BE CAREFUL though, too many people I know go to culinary school expecting to be a celebrity chef and wind up working for $10 an hour and living at home while they pay off $60k in student loans.
posted by Oktober at 1:59 PM on January 5, 2009
(I am not a chef but my friends are)
Condition #1 should be fine as long as you're still willing to work with those ingredients
Condition #2 will talk you out of a lot of jobs
Condition #3 sounds...odd.
I'd say get a fry-cook job somewhere if you can, see if you can hack it in a kitchen while you finish high school, then decide on a real culinary program if you want to do that.
BE CAREFUL though, too many people I know go to culinary school expecting to be a celebrity chef and wind up working for $10 an hour and living at home while they pay off $60k in student loans.
posted by Oktober at 1:59 PM on January 5, 2009
I don't want to be a downer, because I do think people should at least take a shot at pursuing their passions, but I'm having a hard time thinking of a restaurant scenario where you won't have to work with fruits and vegetables.
But maybe I'm not thinking out of the box. I suppose you could just work the grill, but you might find doing that alone isn't fulfilling.
posted by Evangeline at 2:00 PM on January 5, 2009
But maybe I'm not thinking out of the box. I suppose you could just work the grill, but you might find doing that alone isn't fulfilling.
posted by Evangeline at 2:00 PM on January 5, 2009
The culinary world doesn't seem like the best choice for you. Cooks are required to prepaire food for others, and that often requires tasting said food to insure quality. Any restaurant that dosesn't utilize the ingredients you're allergic to and/or simply will not eat because of religious faith, isn't going to care whether or not you went to culinary school.
posted by nitsuj at 2:00 PM on January 5, 2009
posted by nitsuj at 2:00 PM on January 5, 2009
I'm going to say that this is a bad idea.
What do you expect to do with food when you can't even taste what you're making and cannot work on the busiest days of the week in the food industry?
I think you'd end up working as a chef in TGIFridays instead of Burger King\Wal-mart on this path.
Maybe you can look into being the Ace of Cakes or something.
/on preview everyone else is saying the same thing...
posted by zephyr_words at 2:00 PM on January 5, 2009
What do you expect to do with food when you can't even taste what you're making and cannot work on the busiest days of the week in the food industry?
I think you'd end up working as a chef in TGIFridays instead of Burger King\Wal-mart on this path.
Maybe you can look into being the Ace of Cakes or something.
/on preview everyone else is saying the same thing...
posted by zephyr_words at 2:00 PM on January 5, 2009
Is this a serious question? If so, then no, I don't think you can go to culinary school if you can't eat fresh fruits and vegetables. If you can get the allergy thing sorted out, there probably is some way for you to go to culinary school despite keeping Kosher, but I think you'd probably have to find a special Kosher culinary school. Presumably, you can't eat anything not cooked in a Kosher kitchen, and you have to eat the things you cook in culinary school. The fact that you didn't mention that seems to me to reinforce the possibility that this question is a hoax.
I think it's a bad idea to drop out of high school to get highly specialized training, because it limits your options if you decide you don't want to cook for a living. I'm also not sure that most 17-year-olds are mature enough for college. (A lot of 18-year-olds aren't mature enough for college, either, but the extra year does help.) But if for some reason you really can't stand to spend another year in high school, it probably wouldn't be the end of the world, as long as you got a GED.
posted by craichead at 2:00 PM on January 5, 2009
I think it's a bad idea to drop out of high school to get highly specialized training, because it limits your options if you decide you don't want to cook for a living. I'm also not sure that most 17-year-olds are mature enough for college. (A lot of 18-year-olds aren't mature enough for college, either, but the extra year does help.) But if for some reason you really can't stand to spend another year in high school, it probably wouldn't be the end of the world, as long as you got a GED.
posted by craichead at 2:00 PM on January 5, 2009
You might want to look into baking and/or being a pastry chef as then you don't have to deal with non-kosher ingredients and bakers don't work the evening rush typically. Having said that, I will second the idea that you ensure you have a high school degree or an equivalent for college entrance purposes. Being a chef is great and all, but no need to close the option to go learn a different skill like accounting or something equally bring and profitable.
posted by GuyZero at 2:01 PM on January 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 2:01 PM on January 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
I'm going to hop on the bandwagon and say this is a bad idea, too.
I went to a four year college and got a degree that is completely useless to what I do now. Did I learn things there? Yes. Did it help me earn a paycheck? No. I also learned my trade by "school of hard knocks" and while I'm not saying culinary would help, you might do just as well shadowing a chef at a high end restaurant.
So why don't you finish out your senior year and maybe try to get onto an internship with a local chef in your area?
posted by Hands of Manos at 2:01 PM on January 5, 2009
I went to a four year college and got a degree that is completely useless to what I do now. Did I learn things there? Yes. Did it help me earn a paycheck? No. I also learned my trade by "school of hard knocks" and while I'm not saying culinary would help, you might do just as well shadowing a chef at a high end restaurant.
So why don't you finish out your senior year and maybe try to get onto an internship with a local chef in your area?
posted by Hands of Manos at 2:01 PM on January 5, 2009
Let's say you go to culinary school. It's a cutthroat, underpaid field, and you may find yourself without a fulfilling job and in massive debt if things don't work out.
Let's say you finish off high school. No debt, and you can work anywhere that requires a diploma, which is...well, almost everywhere.
Culinary school is a massive risk if it means sacrificing job qualifications everywhere else.
posted by spamguy at 2:04 PM on January 5, 2009
Let's say you finish off high school. No debt, and you can work anywhere that requires a diploma, which is...well, almost everywhere.
Culinary school is a massive risk if it means sacrificing job qualifications everywhere else.
posted by spamguy at 2:04 PM on January 5, 2009
Aw, hell no. See everyone above and the 45 answers to follow saying the same thing.
posted by tristeza at 2:04 PM on January 5, 2009
posted by tristeza at 2:04 PM on January 5, 2009
Oh man, I didn't even notice the food restrictions. Are you insane?
posted by spamguy at 2:05 PM on January 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by spamguy at 2:05 PM on January 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
How will you cook anything if you are allergic to fresh fruits and vegetables?
I'm serious.
Why do you want to be a cook? Is it only because you think you'll be able to make good money quickly or is it because you have a great love of cooking?
If you are shomer shabbos, unless you live in NYC or some other major metro area with a large amount of Jews and kosher restaurants, and work for a kosher restaurant, you're not going to be able to make the quick easy money.
No restaurant is going to give you an easy shift if you can't work the tough ones and if you can't work with the ingredients that make up EVERYTHING THEY SERVE. They don't have to hire you, period. It's not even 'reasonable accomodation' - 'reasonable accommodation' to someone frum is allowing them to come in early on Fridays in the winter so they can leave early to get home before shabbat begins and allowing them to swap holidays, etc. so they can get to temple when they need to. That's 'reasonable accommodation'.
Going to culinary school unless you have an undying passion for cooking food is not the best career path I could think of in your case. I mean, i guess you could become a pastry chef for kosher pastries but culinary school teaches you to cook EVERYTHING. if you went to a culinary school and said "i'm allergic to fresh fruits and vegetables" i'd like to think that they'd be reputable enough to tell you that being a cook is not a reasonable career path for you.
posted by micawber at 2:05 PM on January 5, 2009
I'm serious.
Why do you want to be a cook? Is it only because you think you'll be able to make good money quickly or is it because you have a great love of cooking?
If you are shomer shabbos, unless you live in NYC or some other major metro area with a large amount of Jews and kosher restaurants, and work for a kosher restaurant, you're not going to be able to make the quick easy money.
No restaurant is going to give you an easy shift if you can't work the tough ones and if you can't work with the ingredients that make up EVERYTHING THEY SERVE. They don't have to hire you, period. It's not even 'reasonable accomodation' - 'reasonable accommodation' to someone frum is allowing them to come in early on Fridays in the winter so they can leave early to get home before shabbat begins and allowing them to swap holidays, etc. so they can get to temple when they need to. That's 'reasonable accommodation'.
Going to culinary school unless you have an undying passion for cooking food is not the best career path I could think of in your case. I mean, i guess you could become a pastry chef for kosher pastries but culinary school teaches you to cook EVERYTHING. if you went to a culinary school and said "i'm allergic to fresh fruits and vegetables" i'd like to think that they'd be reputable enough to tell you that being a cook is not a reasonable career path for you.
posted by micawber at 2:05 PM on January 5, 2009
nitsuj: Cooks are required to prepaire food for others, and that often requires tasting said food to insure quality.
EXACTLY. Cooks taste regularly. Good cooks taste everything. This will pretty much disqualify you from anything other than vegetarian cooking, even if you could find someone willing to hire you when you can't cook Friday or Saturday nights.
Also, I can hear my father the doctor sighing as he rolls his eyes over someone claiming to be allergic to fresh fruits, fresh veggies, and nuts. These things are, as he would say, incompatible with long-term life.
posted by mkultra at 2:08 PM on January 5, 2009
EXACTLY. Cooks taste regularly. Good cooks taste everything. This will pretty much disqualify you from anything other than vegetarian cooking, even if you could find someone willing to hire you when you can't cook Friday or Saturday nights.
Also, I can hear my father the doctor sighing as he rolls his eyes over someone claiming to be allergic to fresh fruits, fresh veggies, and nuts. These things are, as he would say, incompatible with long-term life.
posted by mkultra at 2:08 PM on January 5, 2009
If you are shomer shabbos, unless you live in NYC or some other major metro area with a large amount of Jews and kosher restaurants, and work for a kosher restaurant, you're not going to be able to make the quick easy money.If you weren't hung up on getting a prestigious job, though, you might be able to have a satisfying career working in an institutional kitchen. You could run the kitchen at a synagogue or Jewish nursing home or something like that.
posted by craichead at 2:09 PM on January 5, 2009
Response by poster: As far as being allergic to fruits, veggies, and nuts, I am only allergic to eating them. I can cook with them without an issue.
As far this being a fake question: why would I waste a question just to waste everybody else's time?
Assuming that there is away around the allergies, there are Jewish chefs out there, right?
posted by 47triple2 at 2:14 PM on January 5, 2009
As far this being a fake question: why would I waste a question just to waste everybody else's time?
Assuming that there is away around the allergies, there are Jewish chefs out there, right?
posted by 47triple2 at 2:14 PM on January 5, 2009
Best answer: I gotta chime in with this being a bad idea.
-Friday and Saturday night are where it's at as far as food service goes.
-You are severely limited in what you can cook. Your job prospects will be severely limited. I worked for a caterer years ago who's head chef developed a digestive disorder where the smell of cooking food nauseated him. He could not last. You are not as an extreme a case as this but what will you cook? As an employer it sounds like a hassle.
-Very few of the chefs I have worked with went to culilnary school. Many of the ones that did were treated as not-serious people by the ones who learned to cook by doing.
Find a job in a restaurant. Get some experience, find out if what you have in mind is actually possible.
Stay in school for now. It is not really that long.
posted by pointilist at 2:16 PM on January 5, 2009
-Friday and Saturday night are where it's at as far as food service goes.
-You are severely limited in what you can cook. Your job prospects will be severely limited. I worked for a caterer years ago who's head chef developed a digestive disorder where the smell of cooking food nauseated him. He could not last. You are not as an extreme a case as this but what will you cook? As an employer it sounds like a hassle.
-Very few of the chefs I have worked with went to culilnary school. Many of the ones that did were treated as not-serious people by the ones who learned to cook by doing.
Find a job in a restaurant. Get some experience, find out if what you have in mind is actually possible.
Stay in school for now. It is not really that long.
posted by pointilist at 2:16 PM on January 5, 2009
Also, I can hear my father the doctor sighing as he rolls his eyes over someone claiming to be allergic to fresh fruits, fresh veggies, and nuts. These things are, as he would say, incompatible with long-term life.
I'm sure he'll just roll his eyes at this, too, but my sister is allergic to non-citrus fruits, tree nuts and a lot of vegetables (when they're raw). This has diagnosed by someone who, like your father, has a medical degree, and she has a prescription for an EpiPen because of this.
Of course, she's also not trying to be a chef.
To the OP: I don't understand why you have to skip your senior year of high school to do this. That seems like a bad idea. Don't a lot of colleges look at a GED as being less than a diploma?
posted by Airhen at 2:19 PM on January 5, 2009
I'm sure he'll just roll his eyes at this, too, but my sister is allergic to non-citrus fruits, tree nuts and a lot of vegetables (when they're raw). This has diagnosed by someone who, like your father, has a medical degree, and she has a prescription for an EpiPen because of this.
Of course, she's also not trying to be a chef.
To the OP: I don't understand why you have to skip your senior year of high school to do this. That seems like a bad idea. Don't a lot of colleges look at a GED as being less than a diploma?
posted by Airhen at 2:19 PM on January 5, 2009
Best answer:
What you seem not to be focusing on is how important tasting things is to cooking, at least if you're going to cook well. You can't cook what you can't taste. So if you're going to be a cook, you need to get your training in an environment where you can taste everything to learn what it's supposed to taste like.
posted by craichead at 2:20 PM on January 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Assuming that there is away around the allergies, there are Jewish chefs out there, right?Tons, but I don't know that there are very many who are as observant as you. One thing to do, if you're really serious about this, is to find one who is as observant as you and ask how he or she trained to be a chef. You also might see if you could get some sort of apprenticeship in a kosher restaurant or kitchen.
What you seem not to be focusing on is how important tasting things is to cooking, at least if you're going to cook well. You can't cook what you can't taste. So if you're going to be a cook, you need to get your training in an environment where you can taste everything to learn what it's supposed to taste like.
posted by craichead at 2:20 PM on January 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Yes there are Jewish chefs, but I bet they didn't go to culinary school if they have the same kind of restrictions you do, and I bet they had to make some sacrifices either to career or Jewish observances.
It sounds like you could end up, as craichead said, in a kosher kitchen at a Jewish institution, but the way to get there is by interning, apprenticing, and working your way up there. Culinary school probably won't get you too far there, since they will want to know if you can cook their food instead of a perfect pork loin etc.
As everyone said, finish school and then try to find a part-time job in the kitchen of a kosher place.
posted by rmless at 2:20 PM on January 5, 2009
It sounds like you could end up, as craichead said, in a kosher kitchen at a Jewish institution, but the way to get there is by interning, apprenticing, and working your way up there. Culinary school probably won't get you too far there, since they will want to know if you can cook their food instead of a perfect pork loin etc.
As everyone said, finish school and then try to find a part-time job in the kitchen of a kosher place.
posted by rmless at 2:20 PM on January 5, 2009
Best answer: Considering that you're home-schooled, I think it would be a good idea for you to go and get some work experience in a restaurant while you finish up your senior year. Surely there's a place in your area that could use some help part-time.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 2:22 PM on January 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 2:22 PM on January 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
OK, you're dumping an important, normal step on the path through life (the HS diploma), and have imposed several highly-restrictive, increasingly limiting dietary strictures on yourself. Finally, you're hoping to go to work in an industry where many of these limitations will severely hamper your success.
Have you ever asked yourself why you put such obstacles in your own way?
And, a very important question - is your BMI within healthy, prescribed limits? You sound an awful lot like a dear friend of mine who is a recovering anorexic.
posted by IAmBroom at 2:25 PM on January 5, 2009
Have you ever asked yourself why you put such obstacles in your own way?
And, a very important question - is your BMI within healthy, prescribed limits? You sound an awful lot like a dear friend of mine who is a recovering anorexic.
posted by IAmBroom at 2:25 PM on January 5, 2009
no one should ever EVER go to culinary school without first working in a serious professional kitchen for at least few months. the life of a chef, quite frankly, SUCKS—the hours are terrible, the working environment is stressful and hard on your body, and the pay is ridiculously low. the only way to really know if you're crazy and obsessive enough to live the life is to actually do it.
if, after working in the strange environment that is a restaurant kitchen you find out that you really can't imagine doing anything else for the rest of your life, then by all means feel free to get tens of thousands of dollars in debt attending a proper culinary school where you'll be taught by experienced instructors and can tap into an alumni network to help you find a job. considering your many requirements, you should probably be prepared to move to either new york or israel.
posted by lia at 2:27 PM on January 5, 2009
if, after working in the strange environment that is a restaurant kitchen you find out that you really can't imagine doing anything else for the rest of your life, then by all means feel free to get tens of thousands of dollars in debt attending a proper culinary school where you'll be taught by experienced instructors and can tap into an alumni network to help you find a job. considering your many requirements, you should probably be prepared to move to either new york or israel.
posted by lia at 2:27 PM on January 5, 2009
If you are planning to go to a four year college then I don't know why you wouldn't just finish up your last year of school. Can you ask your school guidance counsellor or the home school coordinator if they have programs where you dual-enroll in high school and in community college classes? We had such a program available at both my traditional high school and through home school coordination.
One more year or even one semester to finish high school seems like a long time now but in the course of your life a GED vs. a high school diploma can make a big difference.
posted by muddgirl at 2:29 PM on January 5, 2009
One more year or even one semester to finish high school seems like a long time now but in the course of your life a GED vs. a high school diploma can make a big difference.
posted by muddgirl at 2:29 PM on January 5, 2009
I would do this so that I have a skill if/when the economy fails.
Is that the only reason? You can make decent money waiting tables, and you don't need any school for that. From the tone of your question it doesn't really sound like you're passionate about becoming a chef.
And I don't quite understand why you'd need to skip a year of school for it. If your heart is set on the culinary classes, wouldn't they be waiting for you in a year?
posted by Metroid Baby at 2:30 PM on January 5, 2009
Is that the only reason? You can make decent money waiting tables, and you don't need any school for that. From the tone of your question it doesn't really sound like you're passionate about becoming a chef.
And I don't quite understand why you'd need to skip a year of school for it. If your heart is set on the culinary classes, wouldn't they be waiting for you in a year?
posted by Metroid Baby at 2:30 PM on January 5, 2009
You've asked a question. More than 25 people have given you answers, but because they're not what you want to hear, you seem to be ignoring them.
Regardless of what you want,
* You will find it very difficult to find work when you cannot work the restaurants' busiest shifts;
* You will find it very difficult to find work when you cannot taste much of the food you're being asked to cook; that's like painting blindfolded.
* This is not the money making solution to college expenses you think it is.
Yes, there are plenty of chefs; there are not, however, many (if any) kosher keeping chefs cooking for non-kosher customers. There are, in the US, plenty of kosher hotels, kosher restaurants, an kosher specialty foo companies; there's even a kosher cooking academy in Israel. But none of that is at all practical when you're asking about training in a non-kosher institute. It isn't going to work, disappointing as that may be.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:33 PM on January 5, 2009
Regardless of what you want,
* You will find it very difficult to find work when you cannot work the restaurants' busiest shifts;
* You will find it very difficult to find work when you cannot taste much of the food you're being asked to cook; that's like painting blindfolded.
* This is not the money making solution to college expenses you think it is.
Yes, there are plenty of chefs; there are not, however, many (if any) kosher keeping chefs cooking for non-kosher customers. There are, in the US, plenty of kosher hotels, kosher restaurants, an kosher specialty foo companies; there's even a kosher cooking academy in Israel. But none of that is at all practical when you're asking about training in a non-kosher institute. It isn't going to work, disappointing as that may be.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:33 PM on January 5, 2009
How can the sabbath be both Friday night and Saturday night? shouldn't it be only 24 hours long?
posted by goethean at 2:34 PM on January 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by goethean at 2:34 PM on January 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'd get the HS degree, then look into possible food-related careers that don't involve either schedule or dietary issues. Perhaps a Food Scientist? Or a Nutritionist?
posted by spinifex23 at 2:34 PM on January 5, 2009
posted by spinifex23 at 2:34 PM on January 5, 2009
You won't make it through culinary school. If you can't eat fruit, vegetables, and nuts, you won't be able to taste your food, and if you can't taste your food, you can't be a cook.
If you can't work on Friday or Saturday, though, it's okay, because you won't be able to find work as a cook anyway. You need to figure out a different calling.
posted by EarBucket at 2:34 PM on January 5, 2009
If you can't work on Friday or Saturday, though, it's okay, because you won't be able to find work as a cook anyway. You need to figure out a different calling.
posted by EarBucket at 2:34 PM on January 5, 2009
Just noticed you're homeschooled. My wife says if you're deeply religious and somewhat sheltered, as most homeschoolers are, the restaurant industry will eat you alive. It's a wretched hive of scum and villany, as they say, and you've never seen anything like it. You'll be miserable, you won't make the kind of money you think you will, and you'll regret your decision. Don't do it.
posted by EarBucket at 2:38 PM on January 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by EarBucket at 2:38 PM on January 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
I'm going to join the dogpile and say no. I work as a pastry chef, and have to say that your situation makes you basically unemployable in many kitchens, for the reasons many people stated above (won't work Friday-Sat, allergic to everything in the world, etc.)
I cannot tell you how many times people, when they learn what I do, say, "Oh, I've always wanted to go to culinary school/be a chef/be a baker!" My advice is always the same: work in a restaurant before you invest in any sort of culinary school. The restaurant environment is REALLY not for everyone. It's long hours, it's hard labor, it's low pay, it's chaotic and loud and hot and messy...in short, it's not for delicate flowers. It's a shame to sink 40k, get out of school, get a job that pays $8.50/hr (yes, really--you would be better off at McDonald's) and then realize you hate the work.
So before you pin your hopes on culinary school, work in a real kitchen. If you can't find a job, hit up a local kitchen you like and ask if you can intern there a few hours a week, just to see what it's like. Chances are it's not like what you think it is.
And if, after all that, you do still really want to do it, please realize that you won't be making any more money as a line cook or prep cook than you would at any other low-paying college job. Them's the breaks.
posted by Bella Sebastian at 2:45 PM on January 5, 2009
I cannot tell you how many times people, when they learn what I do, say, "Oh, I've always wanted to go to culinary school/be a chef/be a baker!" My advice is always the same: work in a restaurant before you invest in any sort of culinary school. The restaurant environment is REALLY not for everyone. It's long hours, it's hard labor, it's low pay, it's chaotic and loud and hot and messy...in short, it's not for delicate flowers. It's a shame to sink 40k, get out of school, get a job that pays $8.50/hr (yes, really--you would be better off at McDonald's) and then realize you hate the work.
So before you pin your hopes on culinary school, work in a real kitchen. If you can't find a job, hit up a local kitchen you like and ask if you can intern there a few hours a week, just to see what it's like. Chances are it's not like what you think it is.
And if, after all that, you do still really want to do it, please realize that you won't be making any more money as a line cook or prep cook than you would at any other low-paying college job. Them's the breaks.
posted by Bella Sebastian at 2:45 PM on January 5, 2009
*Can* you do it? I suppose you could try. This plan is not a good plan (see above).
posted by KAS at 2:47 PM on January 5, 2009
posted by KAS at 2:47 PM on January 5, 2009
Read a *lot* of Bourdain, Ruhlman, Batali, and Keller, hang out over on EGullet where the pros hang out, finish up high school, and while you're studying the angles, find out if it's possible to get desensitization treatment for your food allergies and work on getting that out of your way. Get out of HS with the diploma, go to NYC, and work in kosher kitchens while you get your four-year degree.
With all that perspective and hopefully some resolution to your food allergies (lemme guess-- oral allergy syndrome? Carrots, kiwifruit, shit like that?), you should be able to figure out what you want to do. More than that, if you're up against all that and completely willing to take the next five years slaving away and enduring allergy treatments and so on to get there-- well, you'll know you really want to be a chef.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 2:48 PM on January 5, 2009
With all that perspective and hopefully some resolution to your food allergies (lemme guess-- oral allergy syndrome? Carrots, kiwifruit, shit like that?), you should be able to figure out what you want to do. More than that, if you're up against all that and completely willing to take the next five years slaving away and enduring allergy treatments and so on to get there-- well, you'll know you really want to be a chef.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 2:48 PM on January 5, 2009
If you really are allergic to what you say you are, you should not be handling those ingredients, let alone not tasting them. As someone who suffers from a nut allergy, it is Russian Roulette to be in contact with these things. This is a very bad idea.
posted by wingless_angel at 2:50 PM on January 5, 2009
posted by wingless_angel at 2:50 PM on January 5, 2009
Aside from everyone else correctly saying this is a bad idea, I feel compelled to add this:
As a restaurant cook, YOU MUST TASTE *EVERYTHING* YOU PREPARE. This is non-negotiable. You will work with a variety of ingredients and sauces that will be stored, thawed, reheated and reconstituted. If you serve a dish with ingredients that have gone bad or are improperly seasoned you will get an extreme ass-reaming from your sous-chef.
Also, the pay is crap & the hours are long and hard.
posted by gnutron at 2:52 PM on January 5, 2009
As a restaurant cook, YOU MUST TASTE *EVERYTHING* YOU PREPARE. This is non-negotiable. You will work with a variety of ingredients and sauces that will be stored, thawed, reheated and reconstituted. If you serve a dish with ingredients that have gone bad or are improperly seasoned you will get an extreme ass-reaming from your sous-chef.
Also, the pay is crap & the hours are long and hard.
posted by gnutron at 2:52 PM on January 5, 2009
This is a terrible idea. You need a high school diploma to succeed in modern US society. You will almost certainly not make it in the traditional restaurant industry without working Shabbos or handling stuff that is treif. I am assuming you are a Conservative/Orthodox Jew.
I would (1) finish high school and (2) find the guy/girl who manages your local kosher or halal bakery / restaurant / caterer and find out what kind of background they have. There is a lot of money to be made this way, especially in cities with sizable Jewish or Muslim populations.
posted by charlesv at 2:54 PM on January 5, 2009
I would (1) finish high school and (2) find the guy/girl who manages your local kosher or halal bakery / restaurant / caterer and find out what kind of background they have. There is a lot of money to be made this way, especially in cities with sizable Jewish or Muslim populations.
posted by charlesv at 2:54 PM on January 5, 2009
If you attend a decent culinary school you will be required to taste everything you cook. Doesn't sound like you'd be able to do this.
posted by trip and a half at 2:57 PM on January 5, 2009
posted by trip and a half at 2:57 PM on January 5, 2009
Response by poster: Thank you to everybody who answered. You told me what I was looking for.
posted by 47triple2 at 2:59 PM on January 5, 2009
posted by 47triple2 at 2:59 PM on January 5, 2009
Culinary school is for suckers. IMO.
Finish high school.
Then get a restaurant job. See where that goes.
Why pay someone to teach you what you can learn by getting paid for it?
Restaurant work is hot, hectic, low-paying, high-stress, and exposes you to an astonishing variety of dangers from losing a finger to permanent burns to repetitive stress injuries to backaches and fallen arches and alcoholism and drug addiction.
It can also be fun as hell.
I worked in restaurants most of my life. Most of the people I met with culinary degrees either got them after years in the business so they'd have some pull when they wanted to open their own place, or they got them fresh out of high school and had no idea how to act in a real kitchen.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 3:06 PM on January 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Finish high school.
Then get a restaurant job. See where that goes.
Why pay someone to teach you what you can learn by getting paid for it?
Restaurant work is hot, hectic, low-paying, high-stress, and exposes you to an astonishing variety of dangers from losing a finger to permanent burns to repetitive stress injuries to backaches and fallen arches and alcoholism and drug addiction.
It can also be fun as hell.
I worked in restaurants most of my life. Most of the people I met with culinary degrees either got them after years in the business so they'd have some pull when they wanted to open their own place, or they got them fresh out of high school and had no idea how to act in a real kitchen.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 3:06 PM on January 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
• I will not work on Friday night through Saturday Night. (The Sabbath.)
You have no future in the restaurant business, I'm sorry to say, unless you're working for a specifically kosher restaurant.
Also, if you're unwilling to handle certain ingredients or work in a non-kosher environment, culinary school is DEFINITELY not for you.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 3:13 PM on January 5, 2009
You have no future in the restaurant business, I'm sorry to say, unless you're working for a specifically kosher restaurant.
Also, if you're unwilling to handle certain ingredients or work in a non-kosher environment, culinary school is DEFINITELY not for you.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 3:13 PM on January 5, 2009
Finish High School. It's one more year. You have plenty of time.
I will repeat this again. FINISH HIGH SCHOOL. Not a GED. Non-negotiable. Do you qualify for an honor's diploma (or could you with one more year?) GET IT! You are young, Do Not limit your chances before you even know about all the opportunities out there!
posted by defcom1 at 3:18 PM on January 5, 2009
I will repeat this again. FINISH HIGH SCHOOL. Not a GED. Non-negotiable. Do you qualify for an honor's diploma (or could you with one more year?) GET IT! You are young, Do Not limit your chances before you even know about all the opportunities out there!
posted by defcom1 at 3:18 PM on January 5, 2009
Most of what I would say has been covered, but "chef" isn't exactly a job that will be in demand if the economy fails. Eating out costs money!
posted by Benjy at 3:26 PM on January 5, 2009
posted by Benjy at 3:26 PM on January 5, 2009
I worked in kitchens throughout most of high school, first as a bread baker and then as a prep cook/sous chef (these were small kitchens where being the sous chef meant that I got yelled at before anyone else did, and that was about it).
It cured me of wanting to go to culinary school, although I still love to cook (and eat).
As others have said, if this is something you think you really want to do, start by getting a job doing it. If your religious and restrictions are such that you can't taste everything you cook, try to get a job at a kosher place - though that won't help you with the fruit, vegetable, and nut restrictions.
posted by rtha at 3:31 PM on January 5, 2009
It cured me of wanting to go to culinary school, although I still love to cook (and eat).
As others have said, if this is something you think you really want to do, start by getting a job doing it. If your religious and restrictions are such that you can't taste everything you cook, try to get a job at a kosher place - though that won't help you with the fruit, vegetable, and nut restrictions.
posted by rtha at 3:31 PM on January 5, 2009
DarlingBri's link is really interesting. Basically, it suggests that it actually isn't possible to go to culinary school if you keep kosher, and therefore that most chefs in kosher restaurants either aren't Jewish or aren't observant. My friend's dad is a rabbi, and I know that the guy who heads up his synagogue's kitchen isn't Jewish, but I had no idea that was typical. Interesting.
posted by craichead at 4:33 PM on January 5, 2009
posted by craichead at 4:33 PM on January 5, 2009
You've already got some good advice. I'm chiming in as someone who has taught high school and college students.
Don't skip the step of graduating from high school.
Doing so is a limiting decision, not an expanding decision. Expanding decisions are the ones that generate opportunity. Dropping out of school as a kosher observant jew with food-allergies to be a chef isn't exactly a horizon expanding decision.
posted by JFitzpatrick at 5:29 PM on January 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
Don't skip the step of graduating from high school.
Doing so is a limiting decision, not an expanding decision. Expanding decisions are the ones that generate opportunity. Dropping out of school as a kosher observant jew with food-allergies to be a chef isn't exactly a horizon expanding decision.
posted by JFitzpatrick at 5:29 PM on January 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
I know nothing about culinary schools or working in restaurants, but FINISH HIGH SCHOOL. I know someone who was homeschooled, opted for a GED, and has been shut out of jobs because of it. The Air Force won't even take you without a high school diploma.
posted by desjardins at 5:32 PM on January 5, 2009
posted by desjardins at 5:32 PM on January 5, 2009
Someone who cannot taste most of the items on the menu or work during the busiest day of the week should not be a chef, no matter how much they might enjoy it, in much the same way that a blind person should not be a cab driver or an ethical vegetarian should not be a butcher.
Stay in school. Go into food sciences, maybe. Sustainable agriculture. Something where you'll work with food but not have to prepare it.
posted by ten pounds of inedita at 6:00 PM on January 5, 2009
Stay in school. Go into food sciences, maybe. Sustainable agriculture. Something where you'll work with food but not have to prepare it.
posted by ten pounds of inedita at 6:00 PM on January 5, 2009
A former coworker of mine decided she didn't want to be a graphic designer anymore so she went to school to be a pastry chef. Since graduating, she's been working like a slave in various fabulous kitchens. But she doesn't have to deal vegetables or pork. Occasionally nuts and a strawberry or something. Mainly, chocolates and pastries are her specialties. She probably made more money as a graphic designer but she likes her job more now.
posted by miss lynnster at 6:12 PM on January 5, 2009
posted by miss lynnster at 6:12 PM on January 5, 2009
As far as being allergic to fruits, veggies, and nuts, I am only allergic to eating them. I can cook with them without an issue.
In a kitchen you'll have several meals being cooked at the same time and surfaces covered in things you cant touch. Sure, at home in your little kitchen a few boiling peppers dont set off your allergies, but in a real kitchen you're probably not going to be able to handle it.
Everyone I know who has worked in a restaurant (myself included) has been extremely thankful to the fates for being able to leave the restaurant industry. Its a terrible career for those without allergies and without the limitations you have. It will be a short-lived disaster for you and a lifetime of loans. I think a culinary degree from the art institute here in Chicago is something like 20k a year. Do you really want to burden yourself with almost 100k in loans to be a chef? Starting salary for a chef: 32-35k. More than half of your take home pay will be needed just to make the minimum payment on the loan.
posted by damn dirty ape at 6:32 PM on January 5, 2009
In a kitchen you'll have several meals being cooked at the same time and surfaces covered in things you cant touch. Sure, at home in your little kitchen a few boiling peppers dont set off your allergies, but in a real kitchen you're probably not going to be able to handle it.
Everyone I know who has worked in a restaurant (myself included) has been extremely thankful to the fates for being able to leave the restaurant industry. Its a terrible career for those without allergies and without the limitations you have. It will be a short-lived disaster for you and a lifetime of loans. I think a culinary degree from the art institute here in Chicago is something like 20k a year. Do you really want to burden yourself with almost 100k in loans to be a chef? Starting salary for a chef: 32-35k. More than half of your take home pay will be needed just to make the minimum payment on the loan.
posted by damn dirty ape at 6:32 PM on January 5, 2009
Really, really get a high school diploma. It is different than a GED. Colleges look at it differently. Employers look at it differently. It is totally worth it to stick it out and get a high school diploma instead of a GED. I have numerous stories of friends who went for the GED and then had many unforeseen troubles down the road.
That said, I can understand the desire to do something a little different at this point in your life. I went to a public school, but by the time I was getting to the end of my junior year, I was really ready for a change. A little more responsibility, a life that was a little more 'adult'. I found a program where I could take all my classes at the local community college and they would count for high school credits. Instead of senior year English and AP Calculus, I took English 101 and 102 and college level calculus, plus a full load of whatever electives I wanted. I also worked a part time job and did a lot of volunteering in causes that meant a lot to me. When I applied to college, I had my high school diploma, some college classes under my belt, a little work experience, and great contacts and references and satisfaction from all the volunteer work I'd done.
Now, this college / high school exchange program was specific to my district, and I'm sure details would be different wherever you live, but what I'm trying to say is that you have options. What is it you're looking for? What kind of change do you need?
- If what you're looking for is a more social classroom environment, I bet you could figure out a way to take community college courses, especially since you're already a little bit out of the traditional public school system.
- If you're looking for a way to make some pocket money in the coming recession, a year of experience as a waiter / line chef / etc will help you get a job much quicker than culinary school.
- If you're looking for something creative, perhaps you could search out art classes at your local community center.
- If you're looking for something fulfilling, find a volunteer opportunity for an organization that means something to you. Treat it like a job, show up on time, always do a little extra, take on responsibility - you will have friends and references for life.
- And if it's really cooking that you're into, create a course for yourself at home. Get some interesting cookbooks (your local library probably has some to start with). This would help get around the time, dietary, and allergy restrictions, because you'd never have to cook something you didn't choose yourself. Treat it like learning an art. Learn how to make a perfect stock, great traditional sauces. Look up the dishes they learn to make in culinary school and try making them. Practice, a lot. Invite friends over to share the results.
tl;dr: What is your motivation? Identify that, and find something else to meet that need. And get your high school diploma!
posted by neznamy at 6:46 PM on January 5, 2009
That said, I can understand the desire to do something a little different at this point in your life. I went to a public school, but by the time I was getting to the end of my junior year, I was really ready for a change. A little more responsibility, a life that was a little more 'adult'. I found a program where I could take all my classes at the local community college and they would count for high school credits. Instead of senior year English and AP Calculus, I took English 101 and 102 and college level calculus, plus a full load of whatever electives I wanted. I also worked a part time job and did a lot of volunteering in causes that meant a lot to me. When I applied to college, I had my high school diploma, some college classes under my belt, a little work experience, and great contacts and references and satisfaction from all the volunteer work I'd done.
Now, this college / high school exchange program was specific to my district, and I'm sure details would be different wherever you live, but what I'm trying to say is that you have options. What is it you're looking for? What kind of change do you need?
- If what you're looking for is a more social classroom environment, I bet you could figure out a way to take community college courses, especially since you're already a little bit out of the traditional public school system.
- If you're looking for a way to make some pocket money in the coming recession, a year of experience as a waiter / line chef / etc will help you get a job much quicker than culinary school.
- If you're looking for something creative, perhaps you could search out art classes at your local community center.
- If you're looking for something fulfilling, find a volunteer opportunity for an organization that means something to you. Treat it like a job, show up on time, always do a little extra, take on responsibility - you will have friends and references for life.
- And if it's really cooking that you're into, create a course for yourself at home. Get some interesting cookbooks (your local library probably has some to start with). This would help get around the time, dietary, and allergy restrictions, because you'd never have to cook something you didn't choose yourself. Treat it like learning an art. Learn how to make a perfect stock, great traditional sauces. Look up the dishes they learn to make in culinary school and try making them. Practice, a lot. Invite friends over to share the results.
tl;dr: What is your motivation? Identify that, and find something else to meet that need. And get your high school diploma!
posted by neznamy at 6:46 PM on January 5, 2009
If you want to shed your romantic vision of being a chef, read Kitchen Confidential by Tony Bourdain. I considered chef as an alternate career and after reading that and spending time talking to a friend who is a head chef, I was completely dissuaded. Given your allergies/sensitivities, there is no employer that will touch you. If you really want to be in a kitchen, consider being a baker instead.
posted by plinth at 6:54 PM on January 5, 2009
posted by plinth at 6:54 PM on January 5, 2009
If you want a career beyond fast food/skills after you graduate, what else does the tech school offer?
If I were you, I'd go into computer programming. A lot of people start that young, it makes money, and I don't know any tech guys getting laid off so far. (Everyone else's mileage may vary on that.)
Note: no way in hell is anyone maintaining a chef job while in college, either.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:33 PM on January 5, 2009
If I were you, I'd go into computer programming. A lot of people start that young, it makes money, and I don't know any tech guys getting laid off so far. (Everyone else's mileage may vary on that.)
Note: no way in hell is anyone maintaining a chef job while in college, either.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:33 PM on January 5, 2009
This is from my father, who was reading over my shoulder, and is an instructor at a culinary school:
Finish high school while you go to culinary school. Some community college programs (Seattle Central Community College where I teach is one) allow students to attend Running Start Programs. These programs afford High School Students the opportunity to get college credit while they finish High School. You can finish High School AND attend Culinary school. Good Luck!
posted by Rinku at 8:37 PM on January 5, 2009
Finish high school while you go to culinary school. Some community college programs (Seattle Central Community College where I teach is one) allow students to attend Running Start Programs. These programs afford High School Students the opportunity to get college credit while they finish High School. You can finish High School AND attend Culinary school. Good Luck!
posted by Rinku at 8:37 PM on January 5, 2009
Maybe I'm just unable to read this correctly, but I'm a little confused why you're worried about graduating/finishing your senior year of high school if you're home schooling. I home (un, really) schooled, took a few classes at a community college and then got accepted at a 4-year liberal arts college. No GED or other degree.
You might try taking some culinary arts classes at your community college. It'll be cheap, you can probably do it concurrently with whatever you're doing, and you'll gain more information with little risk. (Doesn't work out? Withdraw from your classes for that semester.)
More generally, contrary to many of the above comments, in the US if you are truly home schooling and not dropping out of high school (which I have no experience with), you can get by just fine without a GED or diploma, in general. This is mostly true if you intend to get some sort of post-HS degree before you enter the work force. Pretty much every place I've looked at either don't care about HS, or treats home schoolers as having a HS degree. The few that haven't probably aren't places worth dealing with, honestly.
But, if you can easily get a high school diploma (however you're doing it), and can fit in some community college classes, give it a try.
desjardins: I know someone who was homeschooled, opted for a GED, and has been shut out of jobs because of it. The Air Force won't even take you without a high school diploma.
Yeah, if you want to enlist. The Air Force Academy explicitly accepts home schoolers, although they "recommend" you attend some college before you apply. And if you have a college degree, you can join the Air Force as an officer, it seems. Anyway, I really don't think that the armed forces are a good rule of thumb for anything. They have so many odd requirements placed on them they're pretty unique.
posted by skynxnex at 8:59 PM on January 5, 2009
You might try taking some culinary arts classes at your community college. It'll be cheap, you can probably do it concurrently with whatever you're doing, and you'll gain more information with little risk. (Doesn't work out? Withdraw from your classes for that semester.)
More generally, contrary to many of the above comments, in the US if you are truly home schooling and not dropping out of high school (which I have no experience with), you can get by just fine without a GED or diploma, in general. This is mostly true if you intend to get some sort of post-HS degree before you enter the work force. Pretty much every place I've looked at either don't care about HS, or treats home schoolers as having a HS degree. The few that haven't probably aren't places worth dealing with, honestly.
But, if you can easily get a high school diploma (however you're doing it), and can fit in some community college classes, give it a try.
desjardins: I know someone who was homeschooled, opted for a GED, and has been shut out of jobs because of it. The Air Force won't even take you without a high school diploma.
Yeah, if you want to enlist. The Air Force Academy explicitly accepts home schoolers, although they "recommend" you attend some college before you apply. And if you have a college degree, you can join the Air Force as an officer, it seems. Anyway, I really don't think that the armed forces are a good rule of thumb for anything. They have so many odd requirements placed on them they're pretty unique.
posted by skynxnex at 8:59 PM on January 5, 2009
Finish high school. Go to college. Major in food science. Almost every big state school I know of has a food science program, and my experience (though limited from my own exposure) was that food science tended to be a smaller program. Everybody I knew with a degree in food science had multiple job offers before graduation.
posted by honeybee413 at 9:44 AM on January 6, 2009
posted by honeybee413 at 9:44 AM on January 6, 2009
How can the sabbath be both Friday night and Saturday night? shouldn't it be only 24 hours long?
In this particular faith/tradition -- correct me if I'm wrong -- the Sabbath starts at sundown on Friday night and ends at sundown on Saturday night.
If sundown is around, say 6:30 - 7:30 on those nights, it's not practical to try to work the dinner shifts on those evenings. If you have to be heading home by 6:00-ish, it's a waste of the employer's time to bring you in on Friday evening and if you can't make it in until 7-8 or so on the following night, that's not going to work either.
To answer the OP's question: get your diploma. Culinary school doesn't seem like a good fit for you, given the cost and the allergy issues you mentioned.
posted by jason's_planet at 9:59 AM on January 6, 2009
In this particular faith/tradition -- correct me if I'm wrong -- the Sabbath starts at sundown on Friday night and ends at sundown on Saturday night.
If sundown is around, say 6:30 - 7:30 on those nights, it's not practical to try to work the dinner shifts on those evenings. If you have to be heading home by 6:00-ish, it's a waste of the employer's time to bring you in on Friday evening and if you can't make it in until 7-8 or so on the following night, that's not going to work either.
To answer the OP's question: get your diploma. Culinary school doesn't seem like a good fit for you, given the cost and the allergy issues you mentioned.
posted by jason's_planet at 9:59 AM on January 6, 2009
People above have made excellent points against skipping your senior year of HS to go to culinary school and against your idea of being a chef altogether.
However, for reference, there are kosher culinary training programs (or at least this one): http://kosherculinaryarts.com/
posted by needs more cowbell at 6:21 PM on January 6, 2009
However, for reference, there are kosher culinary training programs (or at least this one): http://kosherculinaryarts.com/
posted by needs more cowbell at 6:21 PM on January 6, 2009
« Older My shoulder hurts. I swear it's not a heart attack... | When should you speak your mind on a friend's... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Ironmouth at 1:50 PM on January 5, 2009