I need a cheese education
December 23, 2008 2:15 PM Subscribe
Help me learn about cheese.
My wife and I really like cheese. Or at least I think we do. So far our cheese experience is limited to what we can find in local grocery stores. I found a very nice cheese shop that I would like to explore, but I have no idea what to start with. Google seems to return a big mix between stores and sites.
On a really basic level, we have liked some extra sharp cheddar, monterey jack, and farmers. Colby seems pretty tasteless. Cheese to cook with, eat by itself, have on crackers, with bread, or anything else, no limits.
Any recommendations on good web sites, books, general advice, and whatever else you can think of would be great. Thanks!
My wife and I really like cheese. Or at least I think we do. So far our cheese experience is limited to what we can find in local grocery stores. I found a very nice cheese shop that I would like to explore, but I have no idea what to start with. Google seems to return a big mix between stores and sites.
On a really basic level, we have liked some extra sharp cheddar, monterey jack, and farmers. Colby seems pretty tasteless. Cheese to cook with, eat by itself, have on crackers, with bread, or anything else, no limits.
Any recommendations on good web sites, books, general advice, and whatever else you can think of would be great. Thanks!
Can't tell where you are, but here in Vermont, the place is crawling with cheesemakers. The approach I like is to buy local cheese, visit the farms, get to know your cheesemaker, get them to talk to you about their cheese, have the same cheese multiple times to discover how it varies. Essentially, go about it the same as you would get to know wines if you lived near a winemaking region.
A good book is Jeffrey P. Roberts' Atlas of American Artisan Cheese.
posted by beagle at 2:32 PM on December 23, 2008
A good book is Jeffrey P. Roberts' Atlas of American Artisan Cheese.
posted by beagle at 2:32 PM on December 23, 2008
Cheese is a wonderful world of complex food. The #1 advice for buying cheese is finding a good cheese shop. Sounds like you've already done that, congrats! Build a relationship with them, taste things and ask questions and get recommendations. Cheese is much better when it's been well cared for and eaten at the right age. It's hard to find good cheese stores that do that right in the US.
The cheeses you mentioned liking, particularly Cheddar and Jack, are more similar than different. Nothing wrong with that! If you like those try some Gouda, some Swiss mountain cheeses (not the kind with big holes), and some other hard cheeses.
There's also a large variety of other kinds of cheeses: soft cow cheeses (like Brie), blue cheeses (like Stilton or Roquefort), soft goat cheeses, hard goat cheeses. A whole world of good stuff. The single best cheese book I've read is Steve Jenkins Cheese Primer. It'll give you a good overview of the kinds of cheese there are in the world with an eye towards American availability.
Where do you live?
posted by Nelson at 3:00 PM on December 23, 2008
The cheeses you mentioned liking, particularly Cheddar and Jack, are more similar than different. Nothing wrong with that! If you like those try some Gouda, some Swiss mountain cheeses (not the kind with big holes), and some other hard cheeses.
There's also a large variety of other kinds of cheeses: soft cow cheeses (like Brie), blue cheeses (like Stilton or Roquefort), soft goat cheeses, hard goat cheeses. A whole world of good stuff. The single best cheese book I've read is Steve Jenkins Cheese Primer. It'll give you a good overview of the kinds of cheese there are in the world with an eye towards American availability.
Where do you live?
posted by Nelson at 3:00 PM on December 23, 2008
Have you seen this AskMe cheese thread? Lots of good info there.
posted by oneirodynia at 3:05 PM on December 23, 2008
posted by oneirodynia at 3:05 PM on December 23, 2008
Since you already said you like sharp cheddar and monterey jack, why not go to the cheese shop you discovered, and ask them to recommend some good sharp cheddar. They will probably have more than one available, and they will probably offer you a small chunk of each to taste. Good start, pick the one you find the most interesting and buy some. Now say that you also like Monterey Jack, and do they have any recommendations?
Good cheese shops don't expect you to already know exactly what you are buying (it's not a supermarket!), unless you are a repeat customer who always buys the same thing - and that's no fun! There's no shame in asking for recommendations, or admitting that you are new to this, and want help. Its easy to feel overwhelmed and noobish in such a specialty shop, but don't be scared, they will probably be excited to help you :)
I have an awesome cheese shop near me, which was very scary the first time I went in, but I just asked for some familiar varieties and was offered some choices. He correctly guessed which one I would like, perhaps because he's awesome, or perhaps because he knows what cheese noobs like - who knows! But it doesn't matter, because I got some awesome strong cheddar and he got a sale and repeat customer. Now go enjoy your cheese! :)
posted by Joh at 3:12 PM on December 23, 2008
Good cheese shops don't expect you to already know exactly what you are buying (it's not a supermarket!), unless you are a repeat customer who always buys the same thing - and that's no fun! There's no shame in asking for recommendations, or admitting that you are new to this, and want help. Its easy to feel overwhelmed and noobish in such a specialty shop, but don't be scared, they will probably be excited to help you :)
I have an awesome cheese shop near me, which was very scary the first time I went in, but I just asked for some familiar varieties and was offered some choices. He correctly guessed which one I would like, perhaps because he's awesome, or perhaps because he knows what cheese noobs like - who knows! But it doesn't matter, because I got some awesome strong cheddar and he got a sale and repeat customer. Now go enjoy your cheese! :)
posted by Joh at 3:12 PM on December 23, 2008
I love French cheeses, and this British site has some excellent information. My absolute favourite cheese, Fougerou/Fougerus is listed - I will never forget the first time I tried it as the cheese course of a degustation dinner at a restaurant in Sydney, and the Maitre d' brought it to the table, peeled back the soft, Brie-like lid, covered in ferns, and using two spoons, scooped out a melting, swelling serve onto our plates, the consistency of thick honey. I have never had a cheese more delicious, and needless to say, I highly recommend you finding some if you can. It's a freaking event.
Another cheese which I love with an inappropriate intensity is Quickes cheddar, from England. I love this one with quince paste, a chutney or relish. It's delicious, and I think you could get it anywhere. It's what cheddar should taste like. Please note... it is not orange.
FWIW, I would start with the place in your local area with an amazing cheese room, and just order what looks intereting or good, or what the cheese expert recommends. Just ask to be pointed in the direction of good things, making a general statement about the level of stink you can handle. If you can't handle much (like me) this will be a good thing to utter early. The good stuff won't always be inexpensive, but isn't this the way with many wonderful things?
I would recommend making up some cheese plates up over a few weeks from the cheese room's haul, and have tasting parties. Make sure to get some great wine recommendations, and appropriate vessels such as crackers, breads and other garnishes. I think over time, what you live will fall into a few categories, so that you will be able to say authoritative things like "Show me the stinkiest washed rind in the house", or as a friend of mine used to say "I want a goat cheese which tastes like I'm licking the ass of the goat". Each to his own, I guess.
posted by lottie at 3:52 PM on December 23, 2008
Response by poster: I live just north of Indianapolis Nelson.
Thanks for the info and thread so far. This is exactly what I am looking for.
posted by Silvertree at 3:57 PM on December 23, 2008
Thanks for the info and thread so far. This is exactly what I am looking for.
posted by Silvertree at 3:57 PM on December 23, 2008
nth that you should talk to the people at the cheese shop and ask them for recommendations. Definitely strike up a conversation with them and tell them what you like and why and go from there. It helps if you can go when the shop isn't super busy with customers. I know I feel better about monopolizing a proprietor's time when I am not busy.
posted by mmascolino at 4:27 PM on December 23, 2008
posted by mmascolino at 4:27 PM on December 23, 2008
Hi, former cheese worker here.
Nthing the Jenkins book - it's what we used as our bible.
And nthing the suggestion to talk to your cheesemonger. Go in at a time when it's not (too) busy, and ask for tastes of things. Cheese people love to talk about cheese, turn people on to new cheeses, wax poetic about the lovely little fresh goat's milk cheeses they have in, made from new spring milk, etc. You can't shut us up.
posted by rtha at 5:14 PM on December 23, 2008
Nthing the Jenkins book - it's what we used as our bible.
And nthing the suggestion to talk to your cheesemonger. Go in at a time when it's not (too) busy, and ask for tastes of things. Cheese people love to talk about cheese, turn people on to new cheeses, wax poetic about the lovely little fresh goat's milk cheeses they have in, made from new spring milk, etc. You can't shut us up.
posted by rtha at 5:14 PM on December 23, 2008
Find a good cheese monger and be willing to experiment, as a start. By a good cheese monger, I means someone who know his/her product and would talk your ear off given half a chance. There was a local place here that had a great cheese guy. I spotted in his case some Vacherain, which is a rare find in the US as it is (A) a raw milk cheese and (B) illegal. The catch is that customs looks for Vacherain Mont D'or and this is Vacherain from pretty much the next hill over. How do I know all this? From talking to my cheese monger who had connections. The shop was a money-losing arm of a grocery store and it went away, but another branch of it surprised me when I asked them to get Vacherain, and they managed to get some Vacherain Fribourgeois.
OK, I'm bragging a bit for having cheese smugglers doing my bidding, but it's something to shoot for. Pre kids, my wife and I would about once a month have simply cheese, bread and wine for dinner and pick some bizzaro cheeses for the opportunity.
Other things to watch for is that there is quite a difference in regional manufacture. For example, there was a dairy store in Silicon Valley that got local Monterey Jack cheese. I haven't found its equal on the east coast. The local stuff to me is just white cheese food.
posted by plinth at 7:00 PM on December 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
OK, I'm bragging a bit for having cheese smugglers doing my bidding, but it's something to shoot for. Pre kids, my wife and I would about once a month have simply cheese, bread and wine for dinner and pick some bizzaro cheeses for the opportunity.
Other things to watch for is that there is quite a difference in regional manufacture. For example, there was a dairy store in Silicon Valley that got local Monterey Jack cheese. I haven't found its equal on the east coast. The local stuff to me is just white cheese food.
posted by plinth at 7:00 PM on December 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
Maybe I am allergic to it or something, but I DO NOT recommend Limburger cheese. I have eaten this cheese twice in my life. #1) It smells like rotten crotch or rotten feet. #2) It tastes awful. Flavor is part odor, and the odor of this foul cheese is nothing short of horrid. #3) Both times I ate it, I woke up the next day with awful, awful, body crippling food poisoning. I was throwing up, with a faucet of liquid poop temporarily installed into my ass. TMI? Certainly so, but a valuable lesson I am happy to pass along.
posted by Brettus at 8:39 PM on December 23, 2008
posted by Brettus at 8:39 PM on December 23, 2008
I am no expert, but I'll tell you this: some cheeses are amazingly different according to age. Take Dutch gouda, for example. The version most common is creamy, white, and mild to the point of little taste. Perfect for some cooking! Then find some of varying age. No longer creamy and white. And OMG, the taste!
Then there is Swiss gruyere. Americans usually know this in the version that comes in gift sets, in little wedges wrapped in foil. This is pasteurized and processed, like so-called 'American' cheese (whoever called that yellow plastic crap 'American cheese' should be tried for treason). It is tasty, but not the real thing. Gruyere is sold at varying degrees of ageing, and the stronger flavors of the older stuff get quite different from the young.
Another one I like especially is asiago. The older stuff is wonderful, and the young is rather boring. I don't know much about it.
What is very strange to me (again, I'm no expert) is availability. I've found aged asiago in the remotes of northern Wisconsin (where I first discovered it) as well as in South Africa. (and I'm talking about Italian cheese, not local). Now I lived in Switzerland, and occasionally only find young asiago (to be fair, I haven't been to southern Switzerland yet). Old gouda I've only found in NW Germany and the Netherlands itself.
posted by Goofyy at 9:04 PM on December 23, 2008
Then there is Swiss gruyere. Americans usually know this in the version that comes in gift sets, in little wedges wrapped in foil. This is pasteurized and processed, like so-called 'American' cheese (whoever called that yellow plastic crap 'American cheese' should be tried for treason). It is tasty, but not the real thing. Gruyere is sold at varying degrees of ageing, and the stronger flavors of the older stuff get quite different from the young.
Another one I like especially is asiago. The older stuff is wonderful, and the young is rather boring. I don't know much about it.
What is very strange to me (again, I'm no expert) is availability. I've found aged asiago in the remotes of northern Wisconsin (where I first discovered it) as well as in South Africa. (and I'm talking about Italian cheese, not local). Now I lived in Switzerland, and occasionally only find young asiago (to be fair, I haven't been to southern Switzerland yet). Old gouda I've only found in NW Germany and the Netherlands itself.
posted by Goofyy at 9:04 PM on December 23, 2008
Among its hundreds of other treasures, Harold McGee's On Food and Cooking contains a wonderful flowchart that shows how the major cheese-making processes work. Go have a look, and then when your cheesemonger says "washed-rind cheese" or "semi-hard" or whatever, you'll have some idea what it all means. The chapter also explains about holey cheeses, and crystals, and how Charlemagne learned to eat the mold, and all kinds of stuff like that. Wonderful book.
There are excellent reasons for the ancient pairing of cheese and fruit. I like Gouda with soft pears and Camembert with Granny Smith apples, and I know a gal who says apple pie is not complete without Gruyere in the crust, but go try some things out and you'll figure your own tastes out soon enough.
posted by eritain at 10:57 PM on December 23, 2008
There are excellent reasons for the ancient pairing of cheese and fruit. I like Gouda with soft pears and Camembert with Granny Smith apples, and I know a gal who says apple pie is not complete without Gruyere in the crust, but go try some things out and you'll figure your own tastes out soon enough.
posted by eritain at 10:57 PM on December 23, 2008
If you start getting into hard cheeses, especially Italian ones, I strongly recommend the Zyliss cheese grater.
Once you get your toe into the world of cheese, next try olives (I love good olives with cheese) and European cured meats (Iberian pork, Spanish sausages, etc.) and good bread!
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
posted by gen at 12:55 AM on December 24, 2008
Once you get your toe into the world of cheese, next try olives (I love good olives with cheese) and European cured meats (Iberian pork, Spanish sausages, etc.) and good bread!
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
posted by gen at 12:55 AM on December 24, 2008
Seconding Nelson. Jenkins' Cheese Primer is the Bible.
posted by rhizome at 3:42 AM on December 24, 2008
posted by rhizome at 3:42 AM on December 24, 2008
When I read your question, I immediately thought that this would be a perfect question for the public library. They probably have some basic books on how cheese is made and descriptions, as well as cookbooks. If you prefer reading about things on the internet, the librarian could probably find some good sources for you. Just contact the library or go up to the reference or information desk for help. (If you still need it)
posted by Gor-ella at 8:14 AM on December 24, 2008
posted by Gor-ella at 8:14 AM on December 24, 2008
Seconding Goofyy for the difference that age makes to Dutch cheeses. Here in the Netherlands when you go to a shop to by cheese the first thing you'll be asked is what age you want (young, medium, old or 'even older than that and a bit of an acquired taste, really') and origin (Gouda, Edam, etc.) only comes second. Young cheese is kind of creamy and bland, old chees is crumbly and can get quite strong-flavoured.
posted by rjs at 9:31 AM on December 24, 2008
posted by rjs at 9:31 AM on December 24, 2008
Totally with all the specialist cheese shop stuff. Find a great cheese shop and go there. Stuff cut fresh from the whole cheese is vastly better than plastic wrapped supermarket cheese. Try goats' milk, sheep's milk and blues. Among the greatest cheese making countries in the world are France (duh), Italy and the rather underrated UK. But cheese is a bit like wine. Most places with the right conditions can do a good job. If you're ever in London check out Neal's Yard Dairy.
posted by rhymer at 10:31 AM on December 24, 2008
posted by rhymer at 10:31 AM on December 24, 2008
I would just like to pass on a specific recommendation for Grafton Village Cheese - specifically the Reserve Cheddar. It's delicious.
It's also the cheese of my birth - it's made in the same town where I was born. Not too many people have a cheese of their birth, so I particularly find this to be kinda awesome.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 11:04 AM on December 24, 2008
It's also the cheese of my birth - it's made in the same town where I was born. Not too many people have a cheese of their birth, so I particularly find this to be kinda awesome.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 11:04 AM on December 24, 2008
Response by poster: I am not sure how to pick a "best answer" here as it is all good advice. Thank you.
posted by Silvertree at 10:38 AM on December 26, 2008
posted by Silvertree at 10:38 AM on December 26, 2008
Response by poster: I am not sure if any of you are still following this, but I wanted to say thanks to those who recommended the Jenkins' book. I found it fantastic.
posted by Silvertree at 6:51 AM on January 12, 2009
posted by Silvertree at 6:51 AM on January 12, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Argyle at 2:27 PM on December 23, 2008