Can someone else have the right to keep you from apologizing to someone you need to apologize to?

December 19, 2008 12:25 PM

Can someone else have the right to keep you from apologizing to someone you need to apologize to?

Wilma* had a brief sexual relationship with her friend Betty’s* 17 year old son Bamm-Bamm*. When he surprised Wilma by becoming emotional, she nervously dumped him with needless harshness. Wilma’s guilt over this episode was one of several things that made her decide to quit drinking. When she reached the Rubbles* on her Step 9 list, she first apologized to Betty for violating her trust and hurting her son. While Betty grudgingly accepted the apology, she refused to let Wilma speak to Bamm-Bamm to apologize to him. Wilma assumed this came from Betty’s knowledge that Bamm-Bamm never wanted to see Wilma again, so Wilma accepted the prohibition.

Two years later, Wilma by chance sees Bamm-Bamm on the opposite side of the street. He nods at her in recognition and gives an awkward wave. This makes her think that he would not be averse to receiving the apology that she still wants to make. She knows from a mutual acquaintaince where he’s currently working. It would be easy to approach him alone, speak for a few minutes, and then leave without being noticed. She doesn’t want to break the promise she made to Betty two years ago, even though it was given under what she now believes to be false assumptions. But since Wilma has found Step 9 to be her strongest help in staying sober and truly wants to take back hurtful things she said, she thinks apologizing to Bamm-Bamm is more important.

Should she approach him or not?

* not their real names, obviously

posted by anonymous to Human Relations (19 answers total)

Will the apology make Bamm-Bamm feel better? or just make Wilma feel better? The point of apologizing is to make the other person feel better. If Bamm-Bamm never wants to see her/talk to her again, then the apology isn't going to make him feel better... (I'm not sure nodding to someone on the street qualifies as a sign that someone wants to be a speaking terms again...others may interpret differently, just my two cents.)

*and I love the name choices!
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 12:36 PM on December 19, 2008

No. Let sleeping dogs lie. And definitely don't surprise him at work...it's an akward and somewhat selfish thing to do. Wilma should make peace with herself and move on, chances are that Bamm-Bamm already has.
posted by emd3737 at 12:37 PM on December 19, 2008

Congrats on quitting drinking! Only sort of related. I had a guy who I'd had a brief fling with that ended badly contact me a year or so later when he was going through Step 9. In his phone call he said he wanted to get together and hang out and I was all "oh hey neat I really liked that guy...." and then he came over and did all his Step 9 stuff on me.

On the one hand I was really happy he was getting help for his drinking. On the other hand, it basically ripped open a scab of a healing/healed emotional hurt by basically saying "Sorry I had sex with you, I was a drunk." and he didn't want to be back in my life in any way, not even as friends, he just wanted to come over, say he was sorry and sort of go. Now clearly there are nicer and clearer ways to apologize for bad things you've done, but still the whole thing basically put this guy (who I was doing okay at forgiving and forgetting about) BACK in my life just so that he could basically feel good about having said sorry and it didn't really help me much at all and may have actually made stuff a little worse.

That said, maybe Betty doesn't care as much and, unless I'm misrading things, Bamm-Bamm is an adult and can communicate with whoever he wants to. If you want to do this politely I'd run it by Betty "Oh hey I ran into Bamm-Bamm briefly but we didn't talk I was wondering...." and see what she thinks. You've already sort of dug a little hole for yourself here making assumptions about why Betty behaved the way she did years ago. Approaching Bamm-Bamm at work is likely, as others have said a little uncool and a little stalker-y seeming, the decent way to Step 9 someone is to first ask if they want to see you at all leaving open the option that they may not.
posted by jessamyn at 12:48 PM on December 19, 2008 [7 favorites]

My experience as someone on the receiving end of such an apology was similar to Jessamyn's-- it made the guy feel better, and it made me feel like shit. Stay away from that poor kid, he doesn't need you.
posted by Maisie Jay at 12:59 PM on December 19, 2008 [1 favorite]

Betty is not stopping Wilma from apologizing to Bamm-Bamm. Wilma made a promise to Betty. It is that promise that is binding Betty.

Wilma has thereby created a double-bind for herself. She can't apologize to Bamm-Bamm without breaking trust with Betty. Then she'd have to go apologize to Betty.

At this point, if Wilma is a pathological moralist, the correct course of action would be to approach Betty and ask to be released from the promise. If Betty releases her, Wilma could then apologize to Bamm-Bamm. However, if Betty does not release her, than Wilma should just learn to be at peace with the promise that she made to Betty and realize that sometimes letting go is the better part of valor.

All of this, of course, is in the abstract. In reality there are actual people and emotions and feelings here. The truth is, you don't have any idea whether Bamm-Bamm wants to hear from you or not. I'd suggest you stop focusing on your own process --- it sounds a little self-absorbed --- and start thinking about it from the perspective of what Bamm-Bamm and Betty would actually like.

Oh, you don't mention this, but do you want to get back together with Bamm-Bamm? I'm not sure whether at some level that is part of your calculus.
posted by alms at 12:59 PM on December 19, 2008

Two years later, Wilma by chance sees Bamm-Bamm on the opposite side of the street. He nods at her in recognition and gives an awkward wave.

Would you or Wilma characterise this as an awkward "hi *blush* I still have feelings for you" wave or an awkward "Oh no, not you!" wave? If its the former, Wilma should stay well away, mostly for his sake. If it's the latter, then I would say that its probably OK to apologize, but not by turning up at his office - that's an awful place to bring personal matters up.
posted by Joh at 1:05 PM on December 19, 2008

There are some people "in my life" who I presume have worked through step nine a time or two based on the celebratory tone others use when talking about ongoing (or, gasp, "completed!") recovery. Oddly, they seem to have guessed that apologizing to me would hurt me rather than help, or they're not sorry.

All I can assume is that they are either assuming wrong, or not feeling badly about what they did.

I vote for give him a call, say some genuine variation of, "Hey, I feel really bad about the way xyz went down. Please accept my apology." If it's not genuine, then wait until your next trip through the steps and reasses then. But, please, don't call with an invitation to dinner or a walk in the park.

I also think it's pretty shitty form to say, "I'm working through the 9th step and it says here I have to apologize. So, uh, sorry."
posted by bilabial at 1:06 PM on December 19, 2008 [1 favorite]

Speaking as a formerly 17 year old boy, it would probably be good to apologize. Just realize that he may have his own unresolved feelings from the situation and seize this as an opportunity to resolve them. This can take the form of a simple hug, cussing you out or wanting to have sex again. Be prepared to deal with anything and decide how much you're willing to deal with.

Betty has nothing to do with this at this point, the boy is 19.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:25 PM on December 19, 2008

When, ahem, my friend underwent Step 9 her sponsor told her that amends should not cause harm. Amends are not always apologies. You can make amends without directly facing the person...sounds like it might create a hairy situation (i.e. cause harm) if you choose to do it face-to-face. Why not write a letter and burn it? The point is to clean up your side of the street.

(See also: An old comment of mine on this issue)
posted by mynameisluka at 1:27 PM on December 19, 2008 [2 favorites]

What bilabial said. In my very limited experience, you're supposed to run through all your Step 9 stuff with your sponsor first, exactly to avoid what jessamyn and Maisie Jay went through. There were a lot better ways to handle that.
posted by small_ruminant at 1:28 PM on December 19, 2008

I don't know whether you should do it at all, but don't do this to him at work. Totally inappropriate.
posted by desjardins at 1:52 PM on December 19, 2008 [1 favorite]

Are you sure an awkward wave is anything but a compulsion to not be rude? His parents might have a better sense of his emotional state regarding the entire affair. Or not.

A quick google of the 9th step includes the full text:

Step Nine: Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.



"Others" may well include the parents at this point. Talk to someone who can help you understand what your motives might be, and whether or not this is a good idea for the folks who will be at the business end of this.
posted by availablelight at 2:49 PM on December 19, 2008

btw, what did your sponsor say about this?
posted by small_ruminant at 3:08 PM on December 19, 2008

I think framing this as whether your friend has "the right" to keep you from contacting her son is self-serving. I agree with the interpretation of others that you made an agreement with your ex-lover's mother not to contact him and you should not violate this agreement or go behind your friend's back. From a ruthlessly pragmatic point of view I would also say that you might want to make sure you are fully conversant with the laws governing the age of consent and potentially the statute of limitations on statutory rape in your jurisdiction if you are considering violating the prohibition your friend insisted on your contacting her son.

As a person not in but with lots of experience with the program I also think this violates the spirit of not doing harm in attempts to make amends (and you need to recognize that your motivations in pushing this as you describe them in your question are, while essentially positive, sound somewhat selfish - your main benefit seems to be the good you think it will do you). What you describe considering doing sounds a lot like sneaking around. If you have to sneak around to do something it probably isn't right. It is likely what you do will get back to your friend one way or another. It is likely to cause problems between you and your friend and between your friend and her son.

Consider approaching your friend again and seeing if she would be willing to discuss your wish and motives. She might be open to something like agreeing to pass on a letter that she was able to review, to relate your side of the story and your regrets to her son, or even to reconsider your contacting her son now that he is older and you have demonstrated your ongoing sobriety.
posted by nanojath at 3:10 PM on December 19, 2008 [2 favorites]

Step 9: Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

It's for precisely the reasons brought up here that a new AA should be working closely with a sponsor as they work through their amends list.

This is doubly true for the so-called "sex inventory" which is singled out in the Big Book as being particularly fraught with the potential for emotionally damaging other people as a byproduct of an ill-managed recovery process.

To the point of the question, this is a tough one for AskMetafilter to be able to address. The personalities involved, the nuances of relationship, etc. make it something much better discussed with your sponsor, who (should) have a far better handle on the picture than we do.
posted by Roach at 3:13 PM on December 19, 2008

Wait, is Betty a contemporary of Bam-Bam's Mother? I assume that Wilma was at least 30 ( I hope) at the time of the "affair". Wilma might want to keep a thirty+ year old away from her teen son for any number of reasons. I am not a prude and I don't much care for statutory rape laws and such, but depending on that kid's emotional maturity at the time of the "affair" he might have had all kinds issues with what Betty did to him. Don't know much about twelve step but unless Betty was a lot closer to his age this is a little more serious than an apology for sleeping with a consenting adult of the same age when drunk.

Perhaps I misunderstand.
posted by ijustwantyourhalf at 6:25 PM on December 19, 2008

I can't help but wonder how different the answers would be if this was Barney and Pebbles.

To respond as a former Bam Bam, I think it probably doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference to him which course you take. It might be potentially fatal to any relationship with Betty.
posted by Lame_username at 6:31 PM on December 19, 2008

So, if the apology is really about making amends and not just about easing your conscience, then if the apology would do harm, writing a letter and burning it or doing something symbolic seems like the right choice. The problem is that the situation sounds like one in which the right kind of apology might do some real good. So my suggestion is (after running this by your sponsor first) to write a letter and give it to Betty, telling her that she should read it and if she thinks it would do Bam-Bam any good, then she can pass it on, but that she shouldn't tell you whether or not she does. By not asking to know whether she passes it on, you won't allow yourself to get the personal gratification/relieve of acknowledgement, which is the potentially harmful part of apologizing. You can focus on what might be most helpful to him to hear, and trust that if you have succeeded in expressing that, it will get to him.
posted by carmen at 9:58 PM on December 19, 2008

This is a question Wilma should ask her sponsor and also possibly others in the program. I have some limited personal experience with twelve step programs (al-anon) and have found that the members there often possess a very real, at times counter-intuitive, but pragmatic and sincere body of wisdom. Ask them for their advice, then follow it.

It is also a question Wilma could ask Betty. After two years, the situation may be different. Bamm-Bamm is no longer a minor, for one.

As to the kernel of the question, I believe that if the situation warrants it (and I'm not sure that it does), then yes, Wilma can contact Bamm-Bamm to make amends. In my opinion, there are times when such an action can take precedence over both Betty's desire to shield her (non-minor) son, and also over Wilma's promise not to contact him. Wilma should be prepared to accept the consequences of breaking this promise, and should think very carefully first. There is such a thing as a selfish, harmful apology, even with the best of intentions.

But questions like this are exactly why people in recovery have sponsors.
posted by kprincehouse at 2:57 AM on December 20, 2008