I need to find meaning in life
December 9, 2008 7:26 AM Subscribe
I have managed to screw up my life repeatedly for years and officially hit bottom recently. How do I escape this descent into nihilism and find meaning and success?
Hello MeFi. Long time visitor, first time poster, and anonymously at that. Apologies in advance for the length, I'll try and keep it concise.
I'm almost 25, male, living in a big city, by all superficial measures should have a good life, but I'm finding myself slowly sliding into some sort of nihilistic state. I wrote up a long backstory, but to make it a bit easier to follow here it is in a more PowerPointy fashion:
College: spent the first couple years reaching new depths of depression and loneliness, struggling to figure myself out. This was mainly due to emotional/social immaturity, some passive aggressive behavior, and never finding a group of friends I felt like a real part of. After hitting rock bottom, slowly channeled that depressive energy into work, classes, working out - basically trying to stay resilient, angry, and to improve myself. This was perversely a good thing, because it gave me something to work for.
Post-college: started work, life slowed down, settling into a rut. I think without the variety of demands and social opportunities (few that they were) that college offered, I started losing motivation. It wasn't emotionally terrible, but I knew I didn't love the way my life was going.
This year: job got particularly frustrating and stressful, started playing (read: gambling) in the stock market several months ago, lost almost everything in my brokerage account (half my total savings). I kept hitting new lows (financially and emotionally), kept making bigger bets to try and make it back, and plumbed new depths of self-loathing, depression, and anger. Much of this has faded away with time, but the effects are there.
Upshot: social relations severely dysfunctional. No close friends, not emotionally close to anyone, very untrusting of everyone and strongly hesitant to reveal too much about myself. Significant loss of self-confidence and frequent feelings of shame. No motivation to do things, can't over my defeatist side to even try, and enjoy virtually nothing in life. Can't concentrate at work, can't clear my mind to sleep well. Occasional feelings of noticeable but not overwhelming anxiety about nothing in particular. I have no perspective on what's "normal" in any element of modern life. Not that it matters, because life is meaningless for me.
Strangely I'm not depressed, but sort of in a stoic despair. I'm basically running on innate survival instincts now. I used to be able to justify and rationalize my mistakes, but this one is eluding me. I want to say to myself that I'll rise from these depths and become wildly successful, but this time I don't think I believe it anymore. I want a break, something amazing to happen to me. But I can't rely on that kind of thinking anymore.
I've always been very stubborn, but now I'm asking for help, some real-world advice. What sorts of things can I do to feel that fire I felt back in college that kept me going? I know I want to be successful, and I continue to call myself very ambitious, but how do I prove it to myself? Are there things I can do to change my thinking so I can try and create something of value in my life? Can I ever achieve anything socially given how much "baggage" I have in my past? How do I figure out "who I am" so I can change for the better without feeling like I'm lying to myself?
I'm not expecting a magic solution here, but there's still a glimmer of hope inside me that's keeping me going, and if I can truly convince myself that I can achieve my ambitions if I just invest myself in moving forward, I think I can make it. To pre-empt some comments, I am actually looking for a therapist after all these years, but until I find someone I can connect and make progress with, I appreciate any real-world advice anyone can offer.
Hello MeFi. Long time visitor, first time poster, and anonymously at that. Apologies in advance for the length, I'll try and keep it concise.
I'm almost 25, male, living in a big city, by all superficial measures should have a good life, but I'm finding myself slowly sliding into some sort of nihilistic state. I wrote up a long backstory, but to make it a bit easier to follow here it is in a more PowerPointy fashion:
College: spent the first couple years reaching new depths of depression and loneliness, struggling to figure myself out. This was mainly due to emotional/social immaturity, some passive aggressive behavior, and never finding a group of friends I felt like a real part of. After hitting rock bottom, slowly channeled that depressive energy into work, classes, working out - basically trying to stay resilient, angry, and to improve myself. This was perversely a good thing, because it gave me something to work for.
Post-college: started work, life slowed down, settling into a rut. I think without the variety of demands and social opportunities (few that they were) that college offered, I started losing motivation. It wasn't emotionally terrible, but I knew I didn't love the way my life was going.
This year: job got particularly frustrating and stressful, started playing (read: gambling) in the stock market several months ago, lost almost everything in my brokerage account (half my total savings). I kept hitting new lows (financially and emotionally), kept making bigger bets to try and make it back, and plumbed new depths of self-loathing, depression, and anger. Much of this has faded away with time, but the effects are there.
Upshot: social relations severely dysfunctional. No close friends, not emotionally close to anyone, very untrusting of everyone and strongly hesitant to reveal too much about myself. Significant loss of self-confidence and frequent feelings of shame. No motivation to do things, can't over my defeatist side to even try, and enjoy virtually nothing in life. Can't concentrate at work, can't clear my mind to sleep well. Occasional feelings of noticeable but not overwhelming anxiety about nothing in particular. I have no perspective on what's "normal" in any element of modern life. Not that it matters, because life is meaningless for me.
Strangely I'm not depressed, but sort of in a stoic despair. I'm basically running on innate survival instincts now. I used to be able to justify and rationalize my mistakes, but this one is eluding me. I want to say to myself that I'll rise from these depths and become wildly successful, but this time I don't think I believe it anymore. I want a break, something amazing to happen to me. But I can't rely on that kind of thinking anymore.
I've always been very stubborn, but now I'm asking for help, some real-world advice. What sorts of things can I do to feel that fire I felt back in college that kept me going? I know I want to be successful, and I continue to call myself very ambitious, but how do I prove it to myself? Are there things I can do to change my thinking so I can try and create something of value in my life? Can I ever achieve anything socially given how much "baggage" I have in my past? How do I figure out "who I am" so I can change for the better without feeling like I'm lying to myself?
I'm not expecting a magic solution here, but there's still a glimmer of hope inside me that's keeping me going, and if I can truly convince myself that I can achieve my ambitions if I just invest myself in moving forward, I think I can make it. To pre-empt some comments, I am actually looking for a therapist after all these years, but until I find someone I can connect and make progress with, I appreciate any real-world advice anyone can offer.
And have a read of this: http://www.swarthmore.edu/~apreset1/docs/if.html
posted by the_ancient_mariner at 7:35 AM on December 9, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by the_ancient_mariner at 7:35 AM on December 9, 2008 [3 favorites]
I don't think that humans are very well equipped to do it on their own. We need friends and associates to compare notes with and to give us something to think about other than our own lives. If left alone to long, we tend to slip into self absorption and despair.
You just got out of school (2 years is nothing in comparison to the rest of you life). You have years to be the big success, but right now you need a social group and to find a place in society. Find some people to hang out with - they don't need to be your bestest buds in the whole world, just some people to compare notes with and who don't make you want to strangle them. You should find that your frame of reference will re-adjust pretty quickly.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 7:40 AM on December 9, 2008
You just got out of school (2 years is nothing in comparison to the rest of you life). You have years to be the big success, but right now you need a social group and to find a place in society. Find some people to hang out with - they don't need to be your bestest buds in the whole world, just some people to compare notes with and who don't make you want to strangle them. You should find that your frame of reference will re-adjust pretty quickly.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 7:40 AM on December 9, 2008
I'm not sure what your interest are, so I can't make specific suggestions. For me, returning to school (college) did a lot for restoring me to a sense of normalcy. Have you considered?
I mean college without the accompanying social scene. College for education.
Another tip is start doing something, as frequently as possible, that gets your heart rate elevated. Something just a little bit scary. Ever mountain biked?
posted by aleahey at 7:46 AM on December 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
I mean college without the accompanying social scene. College for education.
Another tip is start doing something, as frequently as possible, that gets your heart rate elevated. Something just a little bit scary. Ever mountain biked?
posted by aleahey at 7:46 AM on December 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
Echoing The Light Fantastic- you need to find some other people dealing with the same things. Therapists are great, but talking to people going through the same things- especially those people who appear to have everything going their way- and realizing you are far from alone is essential.
posted by MadamM at 7:48 AM on December 9, 2008
posted by MadamM at 7:48 AM on December 9, 2008
You definitely sound depressed, but I'm not much of an expert on that. I do think I can help with this though:
started playing (read: gambling) in the stock market several months ago, lost almost everything in my brokerage account (half my total savings). I kept hitting new lows (financially and emotionally), kept making bigger bets to try and make it back, and plumbed new depths of self-loathing, depression, and anger.
Gambling is a great term to use for this. There's a difference between real investing and treating the stock market like a horse track. People with gambling problems usually gamble because they tie the wins and losses to their self worth. It may be a harmless outlet when blowing $100 at a casino, but bringing that kind of mentality to the something as important as retirement savings is a bad idea.
With that said, you're still in relatively good shape, even though you've lost half of your savings. Over the last year, the S&P has been down 40% as of today, so everyone is doing pretty badly right now. You're much better off than the people who have lost their homes, or their jobs, or retirement income. You're healthy, college educated, and young, so you have time to learn from your mistakes and make the right financial decisions down the line. I would recommend that you put a set percentage of your yearly/monthly/weekly pay into a retirement account and invest it in an index fund. I can't gaurantee that you'll always make money with that strategy, but studies have shown that it beats stock picking strategies in the long run, and you can avoid turning investing into a stressful gambling addiction.
posted by burnmp3s at 7:59 AM on December 9, 2008
started playing (read: gambling) in the stock market several months ago, lost almost everything in my brokerage account (half my total savings). I kept hitting new lows (financially and emotionally), kept making bigger bets to try and make it back, and plumbed new depths of self-loathing, depression, and anger.
Gambling is a great term to use for this. There's a difference between real investing and treating the stock market like a horse track. People with gambling problems usually gamble because they tie the wins and losses to their self worth. It may be a harmless outlet when blowing $100 at a casino, but bringing that kind of mentality to the something as important as retirement savings is a bad idea.
With that said, you're still in relatively good shape, even though you've lost half of your savings. Over the last year, the S&P has been down 40% as of today, so everyone is doing pretty badly right now. You're much better off than the people who have lost their homes, or their jobs, or retirement income. You're healthy, college educated, and young, so you have time to learn from your mistakes and make the right financial decisions down the line. I would recommend that you put a set percentage of your yearly/monthly/weekly pay into a retirement account and invest it in an index fund. I can't gaurantee that you'll always make money with that strategy, but studies have shown that it beats stock picking strategies in the long run, and you can avoid turning investing into a stressful gambling addiction.
posted by burnmp3s at 7:59 AM on December 9, 2008
Tangential but hopefully useful: try joining a class or a club or some kind of group. Learn a martial art. Learn how to mambo. Take a Portuguese class. Do whatever interests you -- it should be something that sounds new, fun, and very slightly scary.
At 25, you're out of college and you're no longer surrounded by "default friends" -- those friendly folks who live on your dorm floor, take classes with you, and strike up conversation on the quad. And without that group of friends, acquaintances, and random passers-by, it's very easy for your mind to start eating itself. We all need other people to give us a reality check and moderate our moods.
By joining some kind of class or club, you'll be making an investment in your social life. And you'll also be getting a little bit out of your comfort zone, in a structured and safe environment. It's a good feeling to try something new & strange and find some success in it.
posted by ourobouros at 8:03 AM on December 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
At 25, you're out of college and you're no longer surrounded by "default friends" -- those friendly folks who live on your dorm floor, take classes with you, and strike up conversation on the quad. And without that group of friends, acquaintances, and random passers-by, it's very easy for your mind to start eating itself. We all need other people to give us a reality check and moderate our moods.
By joining some kind of class or club, you'll be making an investment in your social life. And you'll also be getting a little bit out of your comfort zone, in a structured and safe environment. It's a good feeling to try something new & strange and find some success in it.
posted by ourobouros at 8:03 AM on December 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
Anonymous, here is an anecdote from a period in my life a few years ago as I was recovering from alcoholism and found myself stumbling around searching for new meaning.
A common characteristic of alcoholism is stuffing away emotions and fears. Unable to keep the plug in the jug, we instead kept our feelings bottled up like the rankest moonshine. Never learning, we always made the same mistakes, not fully understanding the insidious nature of the disease; it is relentless in its consistency. Old habits and addictions die hard. Even as a recovering alcoholic I found myself boiling from within, but silent. The emotions I felt were scalding my soul, the inability to release them retarded my personal growth.
I had anxiety. I was afraid. I was anxious and in fear of the future, and for those in my inner circle. It was most likely irrational fear steeped in the anticipation of disruptive change. My 28 year professional career reached a turning point. The company I worked for since college was sold and the final regulatory approvals dragged on for months and months. I forced myself to stuff this inevitability all that time, all the while churning like a witch's cauldron.
Why was I afraid? The change would most likely mean relocation; moving to a geographical place that didn't interest me. Nothing against the fine people who live in those communities, it wasn't where I pictured myself. So turn down the new company and start over. Certainly I could, but in so doing I would throw away half a pension that was only five years short of maturing; one I'd worked long and hard to achieve. Caught between a rock and a hard place.
But it was more than pulling up roots, I feared I had lost my passion for the career. The challenges weren't what they used to be, the feeling of community involvement had given way to cutthroat shareholder value. It was no longer about doing my small bit to make the world a better place. Instead, it was about dollars and cents, plain and simple.
A while back I found another outlet for my passions. Addictive personalities, like my own, have a tendency to replace one consuming virtuality with another. Finally able to abandon alcohol, I discovered the Internet many years ago. Whether I'm addicted is irrelevant, I lived in the net. Its community was, and is, my new passion. It inspires me and enlightens me. It helped me to discern passion and keep hope alive.
Yet, again I was troubled. I made my modest appearance on the Web by teaching and helping, a nice way to return the favor to those unselfish givers who helped me learn to live life on life's terms without alcohol. But there were only so many nuts and bolts to offer, so my focus evolved. I poured myself into giving back to this net community that helped nurture my recovery.
I am neither an artist nor a designer; I have no formal training or talent in either. I am not a writer; again no formal training. Sure, I have written many technical white papers during my career, but they didn't require the creative spirit. So my passion wasn't demonstrable. It was an abstract passion, a love for the good will and energy exuded by internet community. I plunged into this new commitment to net community with trepidation, but a passion nonetheless.
Fast forward several years, and all turned out quite well. I did relocate, but to somewhere of my own choosing. It took me awhile to get my feet on the ground, but I've now been working a totally different career for five years. And I still spend time in internet communities, particularly this one, sharing life's experiences.
My simple advice to you: find something you believe in.
Over the years, I believe I succeeded. I am content and serene. I am comfortable in my own skin. I am charitable and loving. Anonymous, my hope is that one of these days you will be able to feel the same passion and hope.
posted by netbros at 8:26 AM on December 9, 2008 [4 favorites]
A common characteristic of alcoholism is stuffing away emotions and fears. Unable to keep the plug in the jug, we instead kept our feelings bottled up like the rankest moonshine. Never learning, we always made the same mistakes, not fully understanding the insidious nature of the disease; it is relentless in its consistency. Old habits and addictions die hard. Even as a recovering alcoholic I found myself boiling from within, but silent. The emotions I felt were scalding my soul, the inability to release them retarded my personal growth.
I had anxiety. I was afraid. I was anxious and in fear of the future, and for those in my inner circle. It was most likely irrational fear steeped in the anticipation of disruptive change. My 28 year professional career reached a turning point. The company I worked for since college was sold and the final regulatory approvals dragged on for months and months. I forced myself to stuff this inevitability all that time, all the while churning like a witch's cauldron.
Why was I afraid? The change would most likely mean relocation; moving to a geographical place that didn't interest me. Nothing against the fine people who live in those communities, it wasn't where I pictured myself. So turn down the new company and start over. Certainly I could, but in so doing I would throw away half a pension that was only five years short of maturing; one I'd worked long and hard to achieve. Caught between a rock and a hard place.
But it was more than pulling up roots, I feared I had lost my passion for the career. The challenges weren't what they used to be, the feeling of community involvement had given way to cutthroat shareholder value. It was no longer about doing my small bit to make the world a better place. Instead, it was about dollars and cents, plain and simple.
A while back I found another outlet for my passions. Addictive personalities, like my own, have a tendency to replace one consuming virtuality with another. Finally able to abandon alcohol, I discovered the Internet many years ago. Whether I'm addicted is irrelevant, I lived in the net. Its community was, and is, my new passion. It inspires me and enlightens me. It helped me to discern passion and keep hope alive.
Yet, again I was troubled. I made my modest appearance on the Web by teaching and helping, a nice way to return the favor to those unselfish givers who helped me learn to live life on life's terms without alcohol. But there were only so many nuts and bolts to offer, so my focus evolved. I poured myself into giving back to this net community that helped nurture my recovery.
I am neither an artist nor a designer; I have no formal training or talent in either. I am not a writer; again no formal training. Sure, I have written many technical white papers during my career, but they didn't require the creative spirit. So my passion wasn't demonstrable. It was an abstract passion, a love for the good will and energy exuded by internet community. I plunged into this new commitment to net community with trepidation, but a passion nonetheless.
Fast forward several years, and all turned out quite well. I did relocate, but to somewhere of my own choosing. It took me awhile to get my feet on the ground, but I've now been working a totally different career for five years. And I still spend time in internet communities, particularly this one, sharing life's experiences.
My simple advice to you: find something you believe in.
Over the years, I believe I succeeded. I am content and serene. I am comfortable in my own skin. I am charitable and loving. Anonymous, my hope is that one of these days you will be able to feel the same passion and hope.
posted by netbros at 8:26 AM on December 9, 2008 [4 favorites]
I think it's great you are already on the path to getting into therapy. Right now, considering how you've described your state of mind, I think it's an important first step. Echoing other folks' suggestions, finding a community of people--whether it's people who share your specific problems/issues/dilemmas or just people who are potential friends and share your interests (book clubs, athletic leagues, pub trivia teams, etc., etc.) might also be a really important outlet. Feeling emotionally disconnected is the worst. If you have old friendships you can/want to rekindle, that might be a good place to start. If there are things you've always wanted to do or try, I think it's a good place to do that. New experiences really are good for a positive mental state. Can you take a vacation to do some lowkey, relaxing stuff and just take time for yourself? Of course, things like meditation, yoga and so on are definitely widely thought of as being beneficial especially when people are feeling overwhelming ennui/depression, but that might not be your thing.
The most significant thing to me about what you've said is that you seem to have an impressive grasp on yourself and your own inner life for someone who feels so alienated and at loose ends. Make sure that you give yourself credit for being so on top of where you are headed if you stay on the path you're on. Most people are not so self aware and I think it's an amazing thing as well as an indicator of whether or not people can/will change their lives. Maybe that seems minor or is cold comfort, but I think it's important. So, in short, I guess, try to remember as often as possible that things won't always be like this, they will improve without a doubt and you can and will be the one to make those improvements. People with the heaviest and most baggage get through things and go on to live happy, fulfilled lives. It really is possible for all of us.
Hang in there and kudos for taking steps to change things.
posted by Rudy Gerner at 8:45 AM on December 9, 2008 [3 favorites]
The most significant thing to me about what you've said is that you seem to have an impressive grasp on yourself and your own inner life for someone who feels so alienated and at loose ends. Make sure that you give yourself credit for being so on top of where you are headed if you stay on the path you're on. Most people are not so self aware and I think it's an amazing thing as well as an indicator of whether or not people can/will change their lives. Maybe that seems minor or is cold comfort, but I think it's important. So, in short, I guess, try to remember as often as possible that things won't always be like this, they will improve without a doubt and you can and will be the one to make those improvements. People with the heaviest and most baggage get through things and go on to live happy, fulfilled lives. It really is possible for all of us.
Hang in there and kudos for taking steps to change things.
posted by Rudy Gerner at 8:45 AM on December 9, 2008 [3 favorites]
Depression doesn't always feel sad. It can make you feel isolated and alone when you're not.
You say you don't have any close friends, and I can relate to that. It doesn't say anything about you as a person. Sometimes there are just transitions in life that we go through (such as post-college) where we just don't have the time to get as close to others as we'd like...and then, especially to someone prone to depression, feel like we're worthless because people aren't flocking to be with us. I moved to NYC by myself, and was definitely taken aback by how disorienting life can be without a social network, and I'm not prone to depression. I got a couple of roommates, began hanging out with people from work, and a social network just developed from that.
I'm sorry that your job is so stressful. With the job market the way it is, I hesitate to tell you to quit...but it can't hurt to look around and make some plans for the future. Exercise is a good way to manage stress...but I'm pretty lazy.
The best thing I've found for stress relief and a mood stabilizer is volunteer work, as cliche as it might be. A great way to meet people, too.
posted by jnaps at 9:20 AM on December 9, 2008
You say you don't have any close friends, and I can relate to that. It doesn't say anything about you as a person. Sometimes there are just transitions in life that we go through (such as post-college) where we just don't have the time to get as close to others as we'd like...and then, especially to someone prone to depression, feel like we're worthless because people aren't flocking to be with us. I moved to NYC by myself, and was definitely taken aback by how disorienting life can be without a social network, and I'm not prone to depression. I got a couple of roommates, began hanging out with people from work, and a social network just developed from that.
I'm sorry that your job is so stressful. With the job market the way it is, I hesitate to tell you to quit...but it can't hurt to look around and make some plans for the future. Exercise is a good way to manage stress...but I'm pretty lazy.
The best thing I've found for stress relief and a mood stabilizer is volunteer work, as cliche as it might be. A great way to meet people, too.
posted by jnaps at 9:20 AM on December 9, 2008
It sounds like you're missing something. what is it you want? Figure that out and you'll be much further along in getting it.
posted by nihlton at 10:45 AM on December 9, 2008
posted by nihlton at 10:45 AM on December 9, 2008
Are you close to anyone in your family? Can you make a habit of calling a family member one a week or so? I agree that it sounds like you could use some interpersonal connection of some sort. We are hardwired for communal living, some people react poorly to sustained isolation.
You say that you don't enjoy anything. Take a few minutes and figure out if that is really the case. Is there absolutely anything that you love? Something big, something small... anything? Was there anything that you enjoyed when you were a kid? Make an effort to identify one thing that you can get excited about and then find a way to do something related to that. (For instance, I loved playing little league when I was a kid. I was terrible. A couple of summers ago I started playing baseball in an adult league and I can't imagine my summers without it now. I am still terrible, but I've made connections with some great people and there is absolutely nothing better than a beer after you've been running around in the hot sun all day.)
One more tip I would give, and this is going to sound extremely corny, but before you go to bed at night list three good things that happened that day. Try that for 3 weeks. The idea is to train your brain to notice and appreciate the small but positive moments. It is supposed to have some remarkable effects.
Good luck to you.
posted by YFiB at 10:51 AM on December 9, 2008
You say that you don't enjoy anything. Take a few minutes and figure out if that is really the case. Is there absolutely anything that you love? Something big, something small... anything? Was there anything that you enjoyed when you were a kid? Make an effort to identify one thing that you can get excited about and then find a way to do something related to that. (For instance, I loved playing little league when I was a kid. I was terrible. A couple of summers ago I started playing baseball in an adult league and I can't imagine my summers without it now. I am still terrible, but I've made connections with some great people and there is absolutely nothing better than a beer after you've been running around in the hot sun all day.)
One more tip I would give, and this is going to sound extremely corny, but before you go to bed at night list three good things that happened that day. Try that for 3 weeks. The idea is to train your brain to notice and appreciate the small but positive moments. It is supposed to have some remarkable effects.
Good luck to you.
posted by YFiB at 10:51 AM on December 9, 2008
I know I want to be successful, and I continue to call myself very ambitious, but how do I prove it to myself? Are there things I can do to change my thinking so I can try and create something of value in my life? Can I ever achieve anything socially given how much "baggage" I have in my past? How do I figure out "who I am" so I can change for the better without feeling like I'm lying to myself? [...] if I can truly convince myself that I can achieve my ambitions if I just invest myself in moving forward, I think I can make it.
Judge this for yourself, but it sounds a bit like you have some black-and-white, all-or-nothing thinking going on: either you are a stellar success or a failure.
You also seem to have a strong sense of self-worth underneath everything, which is (paradoxically) why you're so harsh on yourself at the same time.
If I could suggest anything, it would be to break things down into tinier little pieces. You have a sense of where you are now, and another of where you would like to be, so the only important question is how to get there? (anything past is past, and can largely be ignored)
So, in the sense of breaking things down, it's largely about two great big cliches: "look after the pennies & the pounds will take care of themselves"; and "a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step".
In that sense, every incremental improvement you make will bring you closer to your goals. But remember that it's no problem if you don't achieve supernova levels of brilliance *right fucking now* - as long as today is better than yesterday, you're doing fine. If that means nothing more than cleaning the sink & making your bed, so be it. You need to make those small steps & get those kinds of foundations in place before you can deal with the bigger stuff. Or, better put, the bigger stuff is all an accumulation of these smaller things, if that makes any sense. It's like building a stable foundation, and then gradually piling a pyramid up on top.
So, little things, like learning to cook & seeing if you can build on your recipes & skills. Keep your place tidy, and see how you can improve your home environment. Get into an exercise program & tinker with it until you're heading in whatever direction you prefer - be it fitness, strength or bulk, whatever. When you see tangible results in these kinds of things (and you will), it'll improve your mood immensely - instead of all this talk about failure, it'll be like "hey, i learned a new skill today, and am benching 10lb more than last week".
I could say the same thing about friendships. These are vitally important, but it's rarely a matter of being best friends instantly with somebody right away, so the same kind of incremental progress is usually the way things go. Say hello to people, chat for a minute or two, go out for coffee, etc - it's the same kind of principle of building things up bit by bit & laying down foundations & before you know it you can look around yourself & think "hey, my life is actually pretty damn good!" Good luck.
posted by UbuRoivas at 10:57 AM on December 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
Judge this for yourself, but it sounds a bit like you have some black-and-white, all-or-nothing thinking going on: either you are a stellar success or a failure.
You also seem to have a strong sense of self-worth underneath everything, which is (paradoxically) why you're so harsh on yourself at the same time.
If I could suggest anything, it would be to break things down into tinier little pieces. You have a sense of where you are now, and another of where you would like to be, so the only important question is how to get there? (anything past is past, and can largely be ignored)
So, in the sense of breaking things down, it's largely about two great big cliches: "look after the pennies & the pounds will take care of themselves"; and "a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step".
In that sense, every incremental improvement you make will bring you closer to your goals. But remember that it's no problem if you don't achieve supernova levels of brilliance *right fucking now* - as long as today is better than yesterday, you're doing fine. If that means nothing more than cleaning the sink & making your bed, so be it. You need to make those small steps & get those kinds of foundations in place before you can deal with the bigger stuff. Or, better put, the bigger stuff is all an accumulation of these smaller things, if that makes any sense. It's like building a stable foundation, and then gradually piling a pyramid up on top.
So, little things, like learning to cook & seeing if you can build on your recipes & skills. Keep your place tidy, and see how you can improve your home environment. Get into an exercise program & tinker with it until you're heading in whatever direction you prefer - be it fitness, strength or bulk, whatever. When you see tangible results in these kinds of things (and you will), it'll improve your mood immensely - instead of all this talk about failure, it'll be like "hey, i learned a new skill today, and am benching 10lb more than last week".
I could say the same thing about friendships. These are vitally important, but it's rarely a matter of being best friends instantly with somebody right away, so the same kind of incremental progress is usually the way things go. Say hello to people, chat for a minute or two, go out for coffee, etc - it's the same kind of principle of building things up bit by bit & laying down foundations & before you know it you can look around yourself & think "hey, my life is actually pretty damn good!" Good luck.
posted by UbuRoivas at 10:57 AM on December 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
Strangely I'm not depressed...
Okay, except that this is a perfect description of depression:
Significant loss of self-confidence and frequent feelings of shame. No motivation to do things, can't over my defeatist side to even try, and enjoy virtually nothing in life. Can't concentrate at work, can't clear my mind to sleep well. Occasional feelings of noticeable but not overwhelming anxiety about nothing in particular. I have no perspective on what's "normal" in any element of modern life. Not that it matters, because life is meaningless for me.
So, I would recommend focusing on little steps, because "what to do with my life" is too big right now. You're tired, your brain is misfiring, let's take care of now now.
Try talking to your doctor. I felt the way you described about a month ago, and have since started anti-depressants and they've really cleared things up and let me focus on more long-term issues instead of the crushing malaise.
You might also be interested in the Mood Gym, where you can learn cognitive behavioural techniques to rescue your thought patterns from being overly negative and defeating.
Finally, check out some great advice in this previous question, What can I do to slay the sadness demon? (I realise you don't feel sad, but depression sometimes manifests as sadness and sometimes manifests as sluggishness and sometimes manifests as anxiety.)
posted by heatherann at 11:16 AM on December 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
Okay, except that this is a perfect description of depression:
Significant loss of self-confidence and frequent feelings of shame. No motivation to do things, can't over my defeatist side to even try, and enjoy virtually nothing in life. Can't concentrate at work, can't clear my mind to sleep well. Occasional feelings of noticeable but not overwhelming anxiety about nothing in particular. I have no perspective on what's "normal" in any element of modern life. Not that it matters, because life is meaningless for me.
So, I would recommend focusing on little steps, because "what to do with my life" is too big right now. You're tired, your brain is misfiring, let's take care of now now.
Try talking to your doctor. I felt the way you described about a month ago, and have since started anti-depressants and they've really cleared things up and let me focus on more long-term issues instead of the crushing malaise.
You might also be interested in the Mood Gym, where you can learn cognitive behavioural techniques to rescue your thought patterns from being overly negative and defeating.
Finally, check out some great advice in this previous question, What can I do to slay the sadness demon? (I realise you don't feel sad, but depression sometimes manifests as sadness and sometimes manifests as sluggishness and sometimes manifests as anxiety.)
posted by heatherann at 11:16 AM on December 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
....and sometimes manifests as irritability and anger, which is what happens to me.
I have been exactly where you're at and I know precisely how you feel. I agree with heatherann that it sounds a lot like it could be depression - it was in my case - and I also agree that first and foremost you should speak to your doctor about this. There are lots of things that you can do to straighten out your life, make friends etc, but the actions it takes to do these things can seem overwhelming and near impossible when you're dealing with the heavy weight of depression.
So please, see your doc, and see if this might be your problem. If it is and if you're able to get treatment, then perhaps you can begin to take the small steps that you need to so that your situation can start to improve. Come back and post anonymously again if you need to at that point and people here will help you with that part, but you know, first things first.
And finally, I know that when I have been in the middle of depressions I always felt so overwhelmingly alone. If it turns out that depression is part of your problems and you feel alone, just remember that millions of people are going through and have gone through the same exact thing. You are anything but alone - there are lots of us out there. It was always comforting for me to know that.
posted by triggerfinger at 11:54 AM on December 9, 2008
I have been exactly where you're at and I know precisely how you feel. I agree with heatherann that it sounds a lot like it could be depression - it was in my case - and I also agree that first and foremost you should speak to your doctor about this. There are lots of things that you can do to straighten out your life, make friends etc, but the actions it takes to do these things can seem overwhelming and near impossible when you're dealing with the heavy weight of depression.
So please, see your doc, and see if this might be your problem. If it is and if you're able to get treatment, then perhaps you can begin to take the small steps that you need to so that your situation can start to improve. Come back and post anonymously again if you need to at that point and people here will help you with that part, but you know, first things first.
And finally, I know that when I have been in the middle of depressions I always felt so overwhelmingly alone. If it turns out that depression is part of your problems and you feel alone, just remember that millions of people are going through and have gone through the same exact thing. You are anything but alone - there are lots of us out there. It was always comforting for me to know that.
posted by triggerfinger at 11:54 AM on December 9, 2008
You have some reserves of strength in you. Stubbornness and the survival instinct are great tools to help you dig out. Now, the battle plan:
1. You must take true assessment of your resources: your assets, deficiency, strong point, weakness, who support you can call on. Take a PTO day to sit down to think and write it all down. The resources you need are time, money, help and guidance. List them all. These are the weapons and ammunition available to you in the coming fight. If you are over-extended, try to reduce your obligations to save resources for this project.
2. Study the problem: you must find the real root cause of the depression. Take your time to peel back the bandages and look at it. Our brains often reflexively try to fix imbalances incorrectly. This may explain your compulsive gambling, or self delusion. You must identify the enemy before you can win. Read Maslow's theory of human needs. Get help from the people you trust to expose the problem. Your health benefit may cover counseling, use them.
3. After listing all your resources and identify the root cause of your problem, think creatively about what path may solve the problem. Usually, if you did a good job identifying the root cause, the solution will be self-evident. However, just in case, try anything and everything to attack the enemy. Throw all you can at it. You will win, I'm sure of it. Good luck.
posted by curiousZ at 11:56 AM on December 9, 2008
1. You must take true assessment of your resources: your assets, deficiency, strong point, weakness, who support you can call on. Take a PTO day to sit down to think and write it all down. The resources you need are time, money, help and guidance. List them all. These are the weapons and ammunition available to you in the coming fight. If you are over-extended, try to reduce your obligations to save resources for this project.
2. Study the problem: you must find the real root cause of the depression. Take your time to peel back the bandages and look at it. Our brains often reflexively try to fix imbalances incorrectly. This may explain your compulsive gambling, or self delusion. You must identify the enemy before you can win. Read Maslow's theory of human needs. Get help from the people you trust to expose the problem. Your health benefit may cover counseling, use them.
3. After listing all your resources and identify the root cause of your problem, think creatively about what path may solve the problem. Usually, if you did a good job identifying the root cause, the solution will be self-evident. However, just in case, try anything and everything to attack the enemy. Throw all you can at it. You will win, I'm sure of it. Good luck.
posted by curiousZ at 11:56 AM on December 9, 2008
Another voice saying your condition sounds like depression. Depression isn't always a crushing sadness, it can be more like an inability to feel emotions deeply.
Try a nutritional supplement like Omega 3 fatty acids and see if it makes a difference.
posted by muscat at 12:02 PM on December 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Try a nutritional supplement like Omega 3 fatty acids and see if it makes a difference.
posted by muscat at 12:02 PM on December 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Is there something from your youth you can reconnect with? What gave you joy when you were 10 years old? Most of the time, these things still hold true. Find something you enjoyed when you were younger and revel in it again.
Also, have you considered attending church? Even if you don't decide to join, sometimes it can be inspiring to church-hop a bit and spend an hour a week in a group of individuals who are focused on something. I know it saved my life.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 12:48 PM on December 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Also, have you considered attending church? Even if you don't decide to join, sometimes it can be inspiring to church-hop a bit and spend an hour a week in a group of individuals who are focused on something. I know it saved my life.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 12:48 PM on December 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
You have learned so much. This sounds trite, but it's so, so true: failure builds experience. Experience builds wisdom. This is just another aspect of your education: you've learned how you don't want to live, how you don't want to feel, and what paths don't fulfill you. This is good, you've saved yourself a lot of wasted time by eliminating those options. Now the way is cleared for you to pursue what you really want to do in the world.
First of all though, you are entitled to a good night's sleep. If you take nothing else, take this. Napoleon said, "throw off your worries when you throw off your clothes." You can't function without rest. No matter what else is going on, sleep is off-limits to your troubles. Permit yourself to indulge in rest: your judgment is skewed when you're tired anyway, so there's no use in beating yourself up in the wee hours of the night. Just leave it be til after breakfast, it'll keep.
You're way too young to have failed at anything. At your age, pretty much the only do-over you can't have is puberty. Nobody knows what they're doing at 25. Be glad that you haven't locked yourself into a path that you don't want to be on. You lost half your savings? Dude. Most people at 25 don't even HAVE savings. You clearly possess drive, determination, and stubbornness. You're an arrow looking for a target. What interests you? If you are going to spend a huge chunk of your life devoted to some purpose, it might as well be something that you find fulfilling. What is that thing?
Your post here is eloquent, clear, intelligent, and ordered. Insightful, though you could cut yourself a bit of slack. Do you judge other people as harshly as you judge yourself? The only people who really feel like they know what they're doing, are people who are grossly disconnected from reality. You know, narcissists with delusions of competency. Everyone else is pretty much making it up as they go along, doing their best, hoping nothing explodes. Everyone looks back on their younger self and regrets they didn't do something different. Everyone torments themselves with mental replays of stupid things they said or did, and wallows afresh in the mortification of their social ineptitude. Generally, nobody else much remembers the incidents that keep you awake at night. They're too absorbed with the anxieties of their own lives. Please, cut yourself some slack.
It would be good to get caught up in something that will challenge you and exhaust you and keep you busy. It would also be a good thing to get you focused outside yourself; other people's troubles are often a very good tonic for our own. What do you think of something like Habitat for Humanity?
You're welcome to email me if you want to talk. You seem like you have been deprived of some good, rambling conversations. And, you're certainly no more screwed up than any of my other friends :)
posted by Lou Stuells at 1:43 PM on December 9, 2008 [3 favorites]
First of all though, you are entitled to a good night's sleep. If you take nothing else, take this. Napoleon said, "throw off your worries when you throw off your clothes." You can't function without rest. No matter what else is going on, sleep is off-limits to your troubles. Permit yourself to indulge in rest: your judgment is skewed when you're tired anyway, so there's no use in beating yourself up in the wee hours of the night. Just leave it be til after breakfast, it'll keep.
You're way too young to have failed at anything. At your age, pretty much the only do-over you can't have is puberty. Nobody knows what they're doing at 25. Be glad that you haven't locked yourself into a path that you don't want to be on. You lost half your savings? Dude. Most people at 25 don't even HAVE savings. You clearly possess drive, determination, and stubbornness. You're an arrow looking for a target. What interests you? If you are going to spend a huge chunk of your life devoted to some purpose, it might as well be something that you find fulfilling. What is that thing?
Your post here is eloquent, clear, intelligent, and ordered. Insightful, though you could cut yourself a bit of slack. Do you judge other people as harshly as you judge yourself? The only people who really feel like they know what they're doing, are people who are grossly disconnected from reality. You know, narcissists with delusions of competency. Everyone else is pretty much making it up as they go along, doing their best, hoping nothing explodes. Everyone looks back on their younger self and regrets they didn't do something different. Everyone torments themselves with mental replays of stupid things they said or did, and wallows afresh in the mortification of their social ineptitude. Generally, nobody else much remembers the incidents that keep you awake at night. They're too absorbed with the anxieties of their own lives. Please, cut yourself some slack.
It would be good to get caught up in something that will challenge you and exhaust you and keep you busy. It would also be a good thing to get you focused outside yourself; other people's troubles are often a very good tonic for our own. What do you think of something like Habitat for Humanity?
You're welcome to email me if you want to talk. You seem like you have been deprived of some good, rambling conversations. And, you're certainly no more screwed up than any of my other friends :)
posted by Lou Stuells at 1:43 PM on December 9, 2008 [3 favorites]
Strangely I'm not depressed
Yeah, you are. It's just not what they show on TV for a depressed person.
I had an ex who went into a period of time where he wouldn't read, wouldn't watch tv, go a movie, go do anything on his own. I'd make plans and he'd all of a sudden pay attention and want to go, but we'd go get on the bus and he wouldn't have his bus pass or any money to pay for the bus, couldn't go home because he didn't bring his keys with.
he would stay up until 3am playing some minesweeper equivalent, every single night.
he was depressed.
things you can do that will help, a lot, right now: volunteer. it will take you out of your normal path and put you with other humans. you need to make contact with planet earth right now. soup kitchens, or animal shelters are things i would highly recommend. walking dogs would be great for you.
people who have fallen farther than you have have achieved great successes. i don't mean to sound condescending, but you're *ONLY* 25. You have so much further to go. So much time. Don't give up on yourself just yet.
posted by micawber at 1:44 PM on December 9, 2008
Yeah, you are. It's just not what they show on TV for a depressed person.
I had an ex who went into a period of time where he wouldn't read, wouldn't watch tv, go a movie, go do anything on his own. I'd make plans and he'd all of a sudden pay attention and want to go, but we'd go get on the bus and he wouldn't have his bus pass or any money to pay for the bus, couldn't go home because he didn't bring his keys with.
he would stay up until 3am playing some minesweeper equivalent, every single night.
he was depressed.
things you can do that will help, a lot, right now: volunteer. it will take you out of your normal path and put you with other humans. you need to make contact with planet earth right now. soup kitchens, or animal shelters are things i would highly recommend. walking dogs would be great for you.
people who have fallen farther than you have have achieved great successes. i don't mean to sound condescending, but you're *ONLY* 25. You have so much further to go. So much time. Don't give up on yourself just yet.
posted by micawber at 1:44 PM on December 9, 2008
I don't have much different to say. I am sorry for what you are going through. There is a light at the end.
I just wanted to add my voice to those who suggest volunteering. It can bring perspective, passion, new ideas, friends, and a wonderful focus away from self.
When we are alone, pretty much all we can do is look inside. Looking outside will bring a cool relief and much needed break.
I passionately recommend helping others. It will help you so very much.
posted by Vaike at 7:41 PM on December 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
I just wanted to add my voice to those who suggest volunteering. It can bring perspective, passion, new ideas, friends, and a wonderful focus away from self.
When we are alone, pretty much all we can do is look inside. Looking outside will bring a cool relief and much needed break.
I passionately recommend helping others. It will help you so very much.
posted by Vaike at 7:41 PM on December 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
It seems to me that what you're going through is pretty much totally normal. Things up through college are, in some ways, kinda easy. Finding friends, knowing what to do next with your life, etc. After college, everything for me just sort of foundered for awhile. You're in this weird slow time in life after being on the fast track for, pretty much your entire life up until now, and now you have to learn more about what it means to be an adult in charge of your own life. Don't worry about what just happened; many people make mistakes, misstarts, or detours in their twenties -- be they financial, relationship, personal, or career -- of the kind that take about five years to undo / pay back / recover / start over from. So the fact that you screwed up and are now hating life sounds kinda like you're just hitting bottom before you get all your stuff figured out. In general, it takes a while to figure out what you need to do and then start learning how to do it. For example, you feel like you have no friends now? It might be an outgrowth of what's going on, but also, it seems like a lot of people in their 20s realize they have to figure out how to make friends, how to reach out to people they like on a regular basis, how to keep in touch with people they knew before, and how to build a life that they can invite people into. (Check out the many past AskMe's on "I have no friends in the new big city.") Getting good at all that takes one? maybe two? years, but even just figuring out "ohhhhh, I need to make effort here" took me about two years.
So, to some extent, it seems like you're just settling in to this next phase in your life. All that said, what you wrote does sound like you're being really hard on yourself or feeling perhaps more hopeless than the facts seem to justify. I would seriously move toward therapy and/or working through the Feeling Good Handbook. It also sounds like a good first step might be just to forgive yourself for screwing up. So you lost money gambling. I know someone who gave, like, a hundred thousand dollars to the first Ralph Nader campaign.
posted by salvia at 11:03 PM on December 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
So, to some extent, it seems like you're just settling in to this next phase in your life. All that said, what you wrote does sound like you're being really hard on yourself or feeling perhaps more hopeless than the facts seem to justify. I would seriously move toward therapy and/or working through the Feeling Good Handbook. It also sounds like a good first step might be just to forgive yourself for screwing up. So you lost money gambling. I know someone who gave, like, a hundred thousand dollars to the first Ralph Nader campaign.
posted by salvia at 11:03 PM on December 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
what about relevant grad programs and internships? i went on a couple month long political internship three summers ago with a some other post college types and the experience of starting something from scratch with a bunch of other similar people gave us stuff to mingle and bond over, it was also a good way to sift through my ambitions and see what i wanted and what i liked, what didn't work etc. i got lucky in that the internship program was actually very generous, challenging and gave interns alot of initiative to do/suggest stuff.
posted by doobiedoo at 7:22 PM on December 15, 2008
posted by doobiedoo at 7:22 PM on December 15, 2008
This may or may not help, but it does the trick for me. You should read the "7 Habits of Highly Effective People" book by Stephen R.Covey.
you can read the e-book from
http://ebookhood.com/8231-the-7-habits-of-highly-effective-people-by-stephen-covey.pdf
posted by thomasck at 9:45 AM on January 12, 2009
you can read the e-book from
http://ebookhood.com/8231-the-7-habits-of-highly-effective-people-by-stephen-covey.pdf
posted by thomasck at 9:45 AM on January 12, 2009
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posted by the_ancient_mariner at 7:32 AM on December 9, 2008 [2 favorites]