How to interact with paid killers?
December 4, 2008 1:56 PM Subscribe
Should I be worried about meetings a friend of a friend who works as a shady mercenary?
So one of my closest friends is friends with two guys who, for lack of a better way to say it, travel the world and kill people for money. She's characterized it as them being mercenaries, but from her descriptions of what one of them said, I think these guys have done work that wasn't in a war zone. She's close enough with the fiancee of one that I'll probably meet him eventually. The idea of this triggers a gut level reaction that scares the crap out of me.
Everything I can tell about the stories she's told me make me believe these guys are for real. I'm nervous about posting the specifics of why I think they aren't lying to my friend, but for the moment, let's assume they aren't lying, and that their profession is real. (Part of me thinks that this can't be true when I've heard about them, but this is me worried about safety here.)
They don't know that I know what they do. I will eventually meet them unless I really go out of my way to avoid them. So, is there anything I can tell myself to calm myself down, how sane are these guys, what sort of mindset do you think they have? I'm decent at understanding people, but the idea of killing people for money is so foreign to me that I don't know anything about them. My friend things one of them is actually a nice guy, the other something of a sociopath, but one who she gets along with. Neither currently lives in the same city as us, but one (the nice guy) is looking to move here.
If these guys really are blowing smoke out their asses, please tell me. If not, any advice on the situation?
I've set up a throwaway email account: uselessaccout@yahoo.com (note the lack of an "n" in "accout") if you want to email me instead of posting an answer here.
So one of my closest friends is friends with two guys who, for lack of a better way to say it, travel the world and kill people for money. She's characterized it as them being mercenaries, but from her descriptions of what one of them said, I think these guys have done work that wasn't in a war zone. She's close enough with the fiancee of one that I'll probably meet him eventually. The idea of this triggers a gut level reaction that scares the crap out of me.
Everything I can tell about the stories she's told me make me believe these guys are for real. I'm nervous about posting the specifics of why I think they aren't lying to my friend, but for the moment, let's assume they aren't lying, and that their profession is real. (Part of me thinks that this can't be true when I've heard about them, but this is me worried about safety here.)
They don't know that I know what they do. I will eventually meet them unless I really go out of my way to avoid them. So, is there anything I can tell myself to calm myself down, how sane are these guys, what sort of mindset do you think they have? I'm decent at understanding people, but the idea of killing people for money is so foreign to me that I don't know anything about them. My friend things one of them is actually a nice guy, the other something of a sociopath, but one who she gets along with. Neither currently lives in the same city as us, but one (the nice guy) is looking to move here.
If these guys really are blowing smoke out their asses, please tell me. If not, any advice on the situation?
I've set up a throwaway email account: uselessaccout@yahoo.com (note the lack of an "n" in "accout") if you want to email me instead of posting an answer here.
Maybe this is a sign I've watched too many movies, but I won't be terribly worried about them. It sounds like you could pretty easily avoid getting to know them at all, and if you do meet them, it will be in a casual social setting. Sure, if you do meet them, tread lightly, but just treat them like normal human beings and try not to offend them, and I wouldn't think you would have much to worry about. Really though, if the thought of these guys makes you feel squicky, just make it clear to your social circle that you don't want to be around them.
posted by craven_morhead at 2:05 PM on December 4, 2008
posted by craven_morhead at 2:05 PM on December 4, 2008
I wouldn't be scared of the mercenaries themselves as much as I would be of people who know who they are, what they do for a living, and who could be relatives or some other party seeking a payback. Or something. Granted, if these guys are aces at their jobs, then hardly anyone knows who they are, but still.
There was a grad student I knew well enough to have a beer or two with at the student union in my undergraduate years. Turns out his advanced maths degree was being paid for by some element of the Russian mob. He got cute, tried to skim off the top and within a year of my graduation, I read an article in the newspaper where he'd been found hogtied and shot in the head four times. His body was found at some skeevy motel in Atlantic City. I was glad we didn't know each other too well at that point.
Go with you gut, I say. If your intuition says, "N'uh-uh," then I'd heed it.
posted by droplet at 2:14 PM on December 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
There was a grad student I knew well enough to have a beer or two with at the student union in my undergraduate years. Turns out his advanced maths degree was being paid for by some element of the Russian mob. He got cute, tried to skim off the top and within a year of my graduation, I read an article in the newspaper where he'd been found hogtied and shot in the head four times. His body was found at some skeevy motel in Atlantic City. I was glad we didn't know each other too well at that point.
Go with you gut, I say. If your intuition says, "N'uh-uh," then I'd heed it.
posted by droplet at 2:14 PM on December 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
If you can be calm, then just do it. Like the others before me have said, they aren't interested in you; they're not psychopaths, their sociopaths motivated by money.
But the true risk here isn't them but your nerves. And, in all honesty, if they get any idea that you'd do what the first person suggested and turn information about them over to a reporter, police, into a book, etc. then you might be perceived as threatening.
The trick is you must be cool with it, not just act cool but be cool. If you can't then stay away from them, never meet them, because if you meet them and you're all nervous and jittery they'll wonder why. If they think you're out to turn them in, well....problems could ensue.
And I don't know what relationship you have with this friend who has so many other friends who are engaged to or friends with hit men, but if you're that nervous about it, then it's time to find friends who's moral compass points more in the direction of your own.
(Note: I have never met a hit man, hope not to, and the above is based on logical conjecture and perhaps too much exposure to fiction)
posted by arniec at 2:17 PM on December 4, 2008
But the true risk here isn't them but your nerves. And, in all honesty, if they get any idea that you'd do what the first person suggested and turn information about them over to a reporter, police, into a book, etc. then you might be perceived as threatening.
The trick is you must be cool with it, not just act cool but be cool. If you can't then stay away from them, never meet them, because if you meet them and you're all nervous and jittery they'll wonder why. If they think you're out to turn them in, well....problems could ensue.
And I don't know what relationship you have with this friend who has so many other friends who are engaged to or friends with hit men, but if you're that nervous about it, then it's time to find friends who's moral compass points more in the direction of your own.
(Note: I have never met a hit man, hope not to, and the above is based on logical conjecture and perhaps too much exposure to fiction)
posted by arniec at 2:17 PM on December 4, 2008
There's a name for people who tell people they travel the world and kill people for money. They're called liars.
posted by electroboy at 2:19 PM on December 4, 2008 [25 favorites]
posted by electroboy at 2:19 PM on December 4, 2008 [25 favorites]
Interact with them as you would anyone around whom you are not entirely sure how to behave -- just talk to them like people. This goes for anyone who you meet about whom you know one uncomfortable fact, like a friend of a friend who has a terminal illness. Once you just talk to them, the uncomfortable fact falls away. I've met people who have killed people, for money, love, or because someone just needed killing. In nearly every instance, I've been surprised by how easy it was to talk to them. Not about the killing part though. Probably best to leave that aside.
posted by *s at 2:19 PM on December 4, 2008
posted by *s at 2:19 PM on December 4, 2008
I wouldn't go out or your way to not meet them, that would just scream suspicious to them, whether or not they care. Meet them, it doesn't really matter what their job is. Do you feel uncomfortable about meeting soldiers? The only real difference is that our government has given them the OK to kill, but whether or not our government is right in any situation can always be brought into question. If you feel uncomfortable with hanging out with them, then just don't make plans to include them in stuff. If they're at a party that your friend is at, just don't go hang with them.
I wouldn't worry about anything, if you hadn't been told, you'd probably never guess that it was their job if they're any good at it. For all you know, they're in Delta Force.
posted by InsanePenguin at 2:20 PM on December 4, 2008
I wouldn't worry about anything, if you hadn't been told, you'd probably never guess that it was their job if they're any good at it. For all you know, they're in Delta Force.
posted by InsanePenguin at 2:20 PM on December 4, 2008
You are overthinking this. If you meet them, do what you should always do when you meet morally repugnant people who you aren't in a position to challenge: act minimally pleasant and polite and then go about your day.
posted by Bookhouse at 2:27 PM on December 4, 2008
posted by Bookhouse at 2:27 PM on December 4, 2008
If they really were guns for hire, even in mercenary quasi-military operations, you can bet your life they wouldn't casually talk about it. Ergo: they are lying.
posted by idiomatika at 2:32 PM on December 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by idiomatika at 2:32 PM on December 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
It seems to me that if you were someone who travels the world and successfully kills people, you would also not be someone who lets this information be known to a "friend of a friend." I call bullshit. But you should still, you know, be nice to them. Just in case.
posted by nitsuj at 2:32 PM on December 4, 2008
posted by nitsuj at 2:32 PM on December 4, 2008
Yeah, just to follow up on electroboy's wise post, I would recommend reading about the career of David Race Bannon.
posted by Kirklander at 2:34 PM on December 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Kirklander at 2:34 PM on December 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
There's a name for people who tell people they travel the world and kill people for money. They're called liars
Seconded. There's a little something called "Operational Security" which the clients of real mercenaries would want their charges to engage in. For that reason, I'd be worried about trusting these people in whatever they say.
Secondly, assuming that the use of mercenaries was illegal in the countries in which they operated, discussing these operations would place them at legal risk.
But, assuming they are mercenaries, there's no reason to approach them any differently. I'd be worried that they'd be lying about a lot of things.
But again, these stories are almost certainly total horseshit. Real mercenaries are not living in Dallas, TX, or anywhere like that. They would live where mercenaries actually fight, which is in Africa.
An important caveat is that they might be Blackwater security guards from Iraq. In which case they would not be carrying out missions "killing people for money." That's what the military does.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:44 PM on December 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Seconded. There's a little something called "Operational Security" which the clients of real mercenaries would want their charges to engage in. For that reason, I'd be worried about trusting these people in whatever they say.
Secondly, assuming that the use of mercenaries was illegal in the countries in which they operated, discussing these operations would place them at legal risk.
But, assuming they are mercenaries, there's no reason to approach them any differently. I'd be worried that they'd be lying about a lot of things.
But again, these stories are almost certainly total horseshit. Real mercenaries are not living in Dallas, TX, or anywhere like that. They would live where mercenaries actually fight, which is in Africa.
An important caveat is that they might be Blackwater security guards from Iraq. In which case they would not be carrying out missions "killing people for money." That's what the military does.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:44 PM on December 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
One of the best lessons in life I was lucky to learn early on: You can't get ahead by hanging out with the wrong kind of people. Regardless of what "getting ahead" means in the particular context--making money, having fun, being polite to your friend, whatever. You always end up losing. So, this one is easy, because there are only two possibilities. These people are either killers or liars. Go out of your way to avoid them. If you get stuck meeting them, find a reason to leave. Do not engage.
posted by HotToddy at 2:58 PM on December 4, 2008 [5 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 2:58 PM on December 4, 2008 [5 favorites]
Perhaps ask yourself this: In this economy, would someone you know pay money to have you killed?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:00 PM on December 4, 2008 [4 favorites]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:00 PM on December 4, 2008 [4 favorites]
thirded or whatever on the bullshit vote. People that work for quasi-military organizations do not call themselves 'mercenaries', they call themselves something more benign like "Contract Operatives".
Mercenaries are by definition someone that fights for a country other than their own for pay or reward (the French Foreign Legion or Mike Hoare are good examples of this). They do not 'travel the world killing for money' but fight for their employer in whatever bush war is currently in fashion and get paid for it. As others have said, if these guys are really just hit men for some Russian mob, they certainly wouldn't be talking about it and would be very unlikely to be domiciled in whatever city you are located in. For all their faults, I am pretty sure our security structure in this country would be aware of who they are and what they do if they were actually 'hired guns'.
Maybe they worked for one of the less reputable security companies in Iraq running shotgun protection on convoys and they just like to pretend they are something that sounds a bit tougher (not that the average guy usually exaggerates about anything ... )
posted by 543DoublePlay at 3:00 PM on December 4, 2008
Mercenaries are by definition someone that fights for a country other than their own for pay or reward (the French Foreign Legion or Mike Hoare are good examples of this). They do not 'travel the world killing for money' but fight for their employer in whatever bush war is currently in fashion and get paid for it. As others have said, if these guys are really just hit men for some Russian mob, they certainly wouldn't be talking about it and would be very unlikely to be domiciled in whatever city you are located in. For all their faults, I am pretty sure our security structure in this country would be aware of who they are and what they do if they were actually 'hired guns'.
Maybe they worked for one of the less reputable security companies in Iraq running shotgun protection on convoys and they just like to pretend they are something that sounds a bit tougher (not that the average guy usually exaggerates about anything ... )
posted by 543DoublePlay at 3:00 PM on December 4, 2008
It's a question of values. Do you want to associate with people who are (or, more precisely, claim to be) hired killers?
Cut your friend off, but leave the door open for reconciliation.
Fear should never be part of friendship.
posted by KokuRyu at 3:06 PM on December 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Cut your friend off, but leave the door open for reconciliation.
Fear should never be part of friendship.
posted by KokuRyu at 3:06 PM on December 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
This isn't even in the same ballpark as soldiers. At least what soldiers do is government sanctioned, and they wouldn't kill you just because you knew what their job was.
If I were you, I wouldn't count on myself acting cool around these guys. Furthermore, I would wonder what I was doing knowing people who would willingly have anything to do with hitmen in the first place.
These guys are the real deal: People talk. Can you afford for something to go wrong?
This might be my favorite AskMe yet.
posted by dunkadunc at 3:14 PM on December 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
If I were you, I wouldn't count on myself acting cool around these guys. Furthermore, I would wonder what I was doing knowing people who would willingly have anything to do with hitmen in the first place.
These guys are the real deal: People talk. Can you afford for something to go wrong?
This might be my favorite AskMe yet.
posted by dunkadunc at 3:14 PM on December 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
I tried to find the article, but cannot - there's a guy recently who claimed to be Blackwater ops who now works as a guard in a nuclear plant (or something like that). His entire story, every last bit of it, was fake. Not really. None of it.
I'm on the side of the people who say this is all a hoax.
posted by micawber at 3:15 PM on December 4, 2008
I'm on the side of the people who say this is all a hoax.
posted by micawber at 3:15 PM on December 4, 2008
Probably liars. But in some of my past experiences, I've found myself alone in a room one-to-one with convicted killers, kidnappers, wife-batterers, the unmedicated, severely schizophrenic and the like.
The answer in virtually every case: Just talk to them like they're people, because they are.
Also, you're really not that important. Unless you start joking about the FBI or stand there trembling and stammering like a nervous Steve Buscemi character you'll be fine. And why would they kill you without getting paid for it anyway?
posted by MasonDixon at 3:26 PM on December 4, 2008
The answer in virtually every case: Just talk to them like they're people, because they are.
Also, you're really not that important. Unless you start joking about the FBI or stand there trembling and stammering like a nervous Steve Buscemi character you'll be fine. And why would they kill you without getting paid for it anyway?
posted by MasonDixon at 3:26 PM on December 4, 2008
the other something of a sociopath
This is probably the true part, and the part with which you should be more concerned than what they do for money.
posted by sageleaf at 3:29 PM on December 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
This is probably the true part, and the part with which you should be more concerned than what they do for money.
posted by sageleaf at 3:29 PM on December 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
So, is there anything I can tell myself to calm myself down, how sane are these guys, what sort of mindset do you think they have?
If by mercenaries you mean they work for Blackwater I have read that people will serve in the army and after finishing their service will move to Blackwater and do the same (or less dangerous) work, and get paid more for it.
You could describe Blackwater mercenaries as "mercenaries who have travelled the world killing people" or you could say "they're basically army veterans who put in a few extra years at a higher rate of pay". And everyone likes army veterans, right?
posted by Mike1024 at 3:29 PM on December 4, 2008
If by mercenaries you mean they work for Blackwater I have read that people will serve in the army and after finishing their service will move to Blackwater and do the same (or less dangerous) work, and get paid more for it.
You could describe Blackwater mercenaries as "mercenaries who have travelled the world killing people" or you could say "they're basically army veterans who put in a few extra years at a higher rate of pay". And everyone likes army veterans, right?
posted by Mike1024 at 3:29 PM on December 4, 2008
I am not sure from your description if you are describing a "hitman" or a "mercenary."
We have a family friend that is what many people would consider mercenary. He is a friend of my dad. He is ex-New Zealand Special Forces and is a contractor for the State Dept's Anti-Terrorism Assistance Program. He used to own a well-known school that trains SWAT teams and the like. I have had a beer with him before and he's just a normal guy with a fu-manchu mustache who has a slightly foreign accent and leaves the country for months at a time to tote large weapons across the world for hire. I have never heard him use the word "mercenary." He talks about his "job" and his "school" and possibly "dignitary protection" but that's about it.
If these guys mouth off about it, they are probably full of baloney. If they are quiet about it, they are probably for real.
posted by charlesv at 3:30 PM on December 4, 2008
We have a family friend that is what many people would consider mercenary. He is a friend of my dad. He is ex-New Zealand Special Forces and is a contractor for the State Dept's Anti-Terrorism Assistance Program. He used to own a well-known school that trains SWAT teams and the like. I have had a beer with him before and he's just a normal guy with a fu-manchu mustache who has a slightly foreign accent and leaves the country for months at a time to tote large weapons across the world for hire. I have never heard him use the word "mercenary." He talks about his "job" and his "school" and possibly "dignitary protection" but that's about it.
If these guys mouth off about it, they are probably full of baloney. If they are quiet about it, they are probably for real.
posted by charlesv at 3:30 PM on December 4, 2008
But again, these stories are almost certainly total horseshit. Real mercenaries are not living in Dallas, TX, or anywhere like that. They would live where mercenaries actually fight, which is in Africa.
Not really true. If you were going to risk your life for money, wouldn't you want to live somewhere nice when you weren't getting shot at? They sign up for a year, go to Iraq, do their time, then come home.
Also, mercenaries fight all over - mainly Iraq and Afghanistan at this point. They have also staged coups all over the world, including Central America and the South Pacific.
posted by charlesv at 3:35 PM on December 4, 2008
Not really true. If you were going to risk your life for money, wouldn't you want to live somewhere nice when you weren't getting shot at? They sign up for a year, go to Iraq, do their time, then come home.
Also, mercenaries fight all over - mainly Iraq and Afghanistan at this point. They have also staged coups all over the world, including Central America and the South Pacific.
posted by charlesv at 3:35 PM on December 4, 2008
Seems to me like if they are telling the truth, they will soon be out of the game anyway, because mercenaries who talk about their work are probably not mercenaries anyone wants to hire.
On the other hand, if they are telling lies, then they are equally weird and misguided, and should be avoided because, hey, who wants to hang out with someone who tells such bizarre lies about himself? Unless you plan to enjoy the entertainment value of listening to them cook up grandiose and disturbing stories about what they do for a living (and I get the feeling you wouldn't be amused by this), I'd say avoid them.
I guess I don't understand why avoiding them would be all that difficult. Upon reading the question a second time, I realize that your close friend is friends with the fiancee of the guy, not the guy himself. Unless you're dating this close friend of yours, I see no reason you should find yourself in a situation where you are compelled to hang out with the fiance of your close friend's friend. Just avoid group outings with this circle. And if that really is your only circle, then look at it as a golden opportunity to spend more time one-on-one with your close friend, and also to make a new circle of friends that doesn't have any sociopaths/compulsive liars/mercenaries lurking on its fringes.
posted by artemisia at 3:40 PM on December 4, 2008
On the other hand, if they are telling lies, then they are equally weird and misguided, and should be avoided because, hey, who wants to hang out with someone who tells such bizarre lies about himself? Unless you plan to enjoy the entertainment value of listening to them cook up grandiose and disturbing stories about what they do for a living (and I get the feeling you wouldn't be amused by this), I'd say avoid them.
I guess I don't understand why avoiding them would be all that difficult. Upon reading the question a second time, I realize that your close friend is friends with the fiancee of the guy, not the guy himself. Unless you're dating this close friend of yours, I see no reason you should find yourself in a situation where you are compelled to hang out with the fiance of your close friend's friend. Just avoid group outings with this circle. And if that really is your only circle, then look at it as a golden opportunity to spend more time one-on-one with your close friend, and also to make a new circle of friends that doesn't have any sociopaths/compulsive liars/mercenaries lurking on its fringes.
posted by artemisia at 3:40 PM on December 4, 2008
The only *actual* mercenary I've ever known (a retired special forces pensioner) never said one word about what he did on his long vacations, only that he performed "independent services requiring a military background - I'm pretty sure he did work for Blackwater or a similar outfit to he would never say.
posted by mrmojoflying at 3:52 PM on December 4, 2008
posted by mrmojoflying at 3:52 PM on December 4, 2008
One of the best lessons in life I was lucky to learn early on: You can't get ahead by hanging out with the wrong kind of people. Regardless of what "getting ahead" means in the particular context--making money, having fun, being polite to your friend, whatever. You always end up losing. So, this one is easy, because there are only two possibilities. These people are either killers or liars.
This is a really good point. "Killing people for profit" is not just another lifestyle choice that decency requires you to treat with respect, nor is being a big-time pathological liar.
I get the sense, from your question, that you are feeling small-minded for not wanting to hang out with professional hit-men. I think there's a consensus here that if the two alternatives are (a) they are professional killers, or (b) total fucking liars, in either case they are not desirable people to socialize with.
posted by jayder at 3:57 PM on December 4, 2008
This is a really good point. "Killing people for profit" is not just another lifestyle choice that decency requires you to treat with respect, nor is being a big-time pathological liar.
I get the sense, from your question, that you are feeling small-minded for not wanting to hang out with professional hit-men. I think there's a consensus here that if the two alternatives are (a) they are professional killers, or (b) total fucking liars, in either case they are not desirable people to socialize with.
posted by jayder at 3:57 PM on December 4, 2008
If you do get into a conversation with one of them ... I'm guessing that the only time the issue will come up is if you bring it up. They themselves know that their jobs are conversation killers. When asked, they'll generally only give vague answers - if any.
Your friend says that they're contract killers or mercenaries. Either she or the actual person is exaggerating, or bs-ing.
Also: Some of the nicest, most interesting people I've known are of the "scary" kind. You'd be surprised.
posted by Xere at 4:27 PM on December 4, 2008
Your friend says that they're contract killers or mercenaries. Either she or the actual person is exaggerating, or bs-ing.
Also: Some of the nicest, most interesting people I've known are of the "scary" kind. You'd be surprised.
posted by Xere at 4:27 PM on December 4, 2008
Response by poster: Do you know what kind of mercenary or special forces member or hitman talks about his work? The dead kind. These people are not for real, don't worry about it.
posted by Anonymous at 4:39 PM on December 4, 2008
posted by Anonymous at 4:39 PM on December 4, 2008
I can't imagine it is for real - just because I don't think that they would talk about it. Heck, I don't talk about MY job specifics for fear of getting into shit, and mine is a small potatoes compared to something like that.
Either way, I suggest a firm handshake and your most interesting smalltalk.
posted by Acer_saccharum at 4:48 PM on December 4, 2008
Either way, I suggest a firm handshake and your most interesting smalltalk.
posted by Acer_saccharum at 4:48 PM on December 4, 2008
And if they start acting weird around you, just mention as an aside that you'll pay them handsomely for a double-cross.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:15 PM on December 4, 2008
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:15 PM on December 4, 2008
I've met a few ex-and-current Navy Seals. It takes some effort just to get them to admit to that, usually with only a shrug and a nod. Forget about getting anything else out of them.
The closest I ever got one of them to talking was when he said that sometimes they did missions and even they didn't know what country they were in.
The odd thing was that you wouldn't have picked any of these guys out as being anything special just from looking at them. Think about that for a minute.
posted by trinity8-director at 5:56 PM on December 4, 2008
The closest I ever got one of them to talking was when he said that sometimes they did missions and even they didn't know what country they were in.
The odd thing was that you wouldn't have picked any of these guys out as being anything special just from looking at them. Think about that for a minute.
posted by trinity8-director at 5:56 PM on December 4, 2008
I used to know a guy in his forties whose specialty was child recovery for legal custodians whose ex-spouse had taken off with the kids. Mostly it was just a job of tracking down the kids somewhere in the world and applying pressure to (or bribing) the right local authorities.
When that didn't work, he used force. He had a stable of ex-army buddies he hired when the situation demanded it, and off they went. Given the weapons they were carrying I honestly hope nobody ever resisted them when they showed up, but it seems likely that sooner or later somebody got killed.
The whole area was very grey and ripe for abuse. How thoroughly did he check who actually was the legal custodian? Had the parent fled with the kids because that was the right thing to do? And was there an extra service fee if the ex-spouse accidentally died during the retrieval?
I never asked these questions (I was much younger), but the whole situation was a bit too morally ambiguous for me so I eased my way out of it.
Of more interest to you directly: All of these guys were pretty normal people. Well, actually some of them were quite quirky and interesting, but nothing menacing about them. I learned some useful things too, particularly about bribing etiquette.
In the end I was still uneasy about hanging out with them, though. And I particularly didn't want to be around when their bad karma caught up with them.
posted by tkolar at 6:19 PM on December 4, 2008
When that didn't work, he used force. He had a stable of ex-army buddies he hired when the situation demanded it, and off they went. Given the weapons they were carrying I honestly hope nobody ever resisted them when they showed up, but it seems likely that sooner or later somebody got killed.
The whole area was very grey and ripe for abuse. How thoroughly did he check who actually was the legal custodian? Had the parent fled with the kids because that was the right thing to do? And was there an extra service fee if the ex-spouse accidentally died during the retrieval?
I never asked these questions (I was much younger), but the whole situation was a bit too morally ambiguous for me so I eased my way out of it.
Of more interest to you directly: All of these guys were pretty normal people. Well, actually some of them were quite quirky and interesting, but nothing menacing about them. I learned some useful things too, particularly about bribing etiquette.
In the end I was still uneasy about hanging out with them, though. And I particularly didn't want to be around when their bad karma caught up with them.
posted by tkolar at 6:19 PM on December 4, 2008
Real special/black ops guys talk about working as "consultants" for a "company" that requires "frequent travel."
You're dealing with pathological liars here, which makes them not only creepy but also a total, boring waste of your time.
posted by availablelight at 8:01 PM on December 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
You're dealing with pathological liars here, which makes them not only creepy but also a total, boring waste of your time.
posted by availablelight at 8:01 PM on December 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm nervous about posting the specifics of why I think they aren't lying to my friend
Anonymous, please send an update to one of the moderators (jessamyn, cortex, mathowie) telling us the specfics of why you think they aren't lying. This is bound to be fascinating. It's a big world, so please don't get paranoid and think they will somehow be "outed" by some general details on a internet discussion forum.
posted by jayder at 8:28 PM on December 4, 2008
Anonymous, please send an update to one of the moderators (jessamyn, cortex, mathowie) telling us the specfics of why you think they aren't lying. This is bound to be fascinating. It's a big world, so please don't get paranoid and think they will somehow be "outed" by some general details on a internet discussion forum.
posted by jayder at 8:28 PM on December 4, 2008
I have an ex-military friend who talked about some crazy ass hired people who served with him in Iraq. I think he referred to them as mercenaries. They were all either non-Americans, or ex-US military. It wasn't their job just to kill people, though, they were sort of like guards for important people in Iraq and did weird special stuff. They weren't with Blackwater, though.
A mercenary is not the same thing as a hitman. A mercenary is a hired soldier. Usually when people use the word mercenary, they're referring to a person hired by a foreign force to serve, (as in the person is doing it just for money, not for patriotism). Of course, it sounds like your subjects are American, but contractors like Blackwater folks are essentially mercenaries. Being a mercenary could involve killing people to the same extent as serving in the military can. A hitman is a paid murderer. The purpose of their job is to murder people.
It's important to make that distinction.
posted by fructose at 9:37 PM on December 4, 2008
A mercenary is not the same thing as a hitman. A mercenary is a hired soldier. Usually when people use the word mercenary, they're referring to a person hired by a foreign force to serve, (as in the person is doing it just for money, not for patriotism). Of course, it sounds like your subjects are American, but contractors like Blackwater folks are essentially mercenaries. Being a mercenary could involve killing people to the same extent as serving in the military can. A hitman is a paid murderer. The purpose of their job is to murder people.
It's important to make that distinction.
posted by fructose at 9:37 PM on December 4, 2008
Nthing the possibility they're living some Chuck Norris meets James Bond fantasy. Of course, since the info you have about them is from your friend, she might be the one who's editorialising.
Charlesv's description matches my own experience. There's a whole universe of ex-military folks out there who do security jobs - however you want to interpret that particular word. Most of it is babysitting people or cargo. Their jobs might occasionally be dangerous, but these are people whose survival, training and professional success depend on keeping a very low key profile. They take a contract for a few months, then they come home and play lots of golf, party and surf. Then they go back to work.
In other words, if this is what they do, they are absolutely not taking their work home with them. And if they are "hired killers", well... your own discomfort at the very idea of them living in the same city as you do makes me think that somehow, you aren't going to be spending too much time around them.
If they're full of crap, though, they could be entertaining... it just depends how far they themselves take the fantasy.
posted by Grrlscout at 10:32 PM on December 4, 2008
Charlesv's description matches my own experience. There's a whole universe of ex-military folks out there who do security jobs - however you want to interpret that particular word. Most of it is babysitting people or cargo. Their jobs might occasionally be dangerous, but these are people whose survival, training and professional success depend on keeping a very low key profile. They take a contract for a few months, then they come home and play lots of golf, party and surf. Then they go back to work.
In other words, if this is what they do, they are absolutely not taking their work home with them. And if they are "hired killers", well... your own discomfort at the very idea of them living in the same city as you do makes me think that somehow, you aren't going to be spending too much time around them.
If they're full of crap, though, they could be entertaining... it just depends how far they themselves take the fantasy.
posted by Grrlscout at 10:32 PM on December 4, 2008
Oh, and there's a middle way on the lying front:
Outside of armed services and law enforcement, the majority of people who travel a lot while carrying guns are private security. Bodyguards, basically. To give you an idea, the insurance companies for most of the multinationals require that their execs travel with security when outside of their home countries -- and that's just the beginning. Personal security is big business.
Personal security done right is an incredibly boring job. Basically you get to stand around in hallways and explain to your prisoners ... er, I mean clients ... why they can't do anything fun. My cousin was in Beijing for the games, and he and his wife were allowed to go to a) their hotel, and b) the olympic venue. No sightseeing, no shopping, nada.
Long hours, boredom; One could see where people might start to embellish their resume a bit.
Something to think about as you start putting the pieces together a bit more.
posted by tkolar at 10:32 PM on December 4, 2008
Outside of armed services and law enforcement, the majority of people who travel a lot while carrying guns are private security. Bodyguards, basically. To give you an idea, the insurance companies for most of the multinationals require that their execs travel with security when outside of their home countries -- and that's just the beginning. Personal security is big business.
Personal security done right is an incredibly boring job. Basically you get to stand around in hallways and explain to your prisoners ... er, I mean clients ... why they can't do anything fun. My cousin was in Beijing for the games, and he and his wife were allowed to go to a) their hotel, and b) the olympic venue. No sightseeing, no shopping, nada.
Long hours, boredom; One could see where people might start to embellish their resume a bit.
Something to think about as you start putting the pieces together a bit more.
posted by tkolar at 10:32 PM on December 4, 2008
Is either of them name Roland or headless?
Seriously, I agree it's more troubling if they are making this shit up, because that means they want to be that guy - you'd be better off hanging out with real security consultants.
Avoid them if you can. If you can't avoid them, then be bland and make small talk.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 10:48 PM on December 4, 2008
Seriously, I agree it's more troubling if they are making this shit up, because that means they want to be that guy - you'd be better off hanging out with real security consultants.
Avoid them if you can. If you can't avoid them, then be bland and make small talk.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 10:48 PM on December 4, 2008
Under your description there seems to be some anxiety, anxiety resulting from someone describing these guys as being a certain way, a description that you assume arises from them. The salient point being, the description has lead to a reaction, on your part and on the part of the people who relayed it to you, of being intimidated. The genuinely dangerous people I've met in my sheltered milk-toast world have never broadcasted how dangerous they were; they did not need to.
There is danger from people who broadcast their strength and that often comes from volatility.
Pretend you never heard about their "Hit-man" lifestyles and treat them at face value. And if they look like any of the guys in these photos...
posted by From Bklyn at 6:19 AM on December 5, 2008
There is danger from people who broadcast their strength and that often comes from volatility.
Pretend you never heard about their "Hit-man" lifestyles and treat them at face value. And if they look like any of the guys in these photos...
posted by From Bklyn at 6:19 AM on December 5, 2008
I have two old friends who live in a nasty part of Africa and are "security consultants". They describe themselves as armed baby-sitters and would be extremely offended if anyone called them hit men or anything similar. They don't tell stories - ever. I get the feeling there really aren't any huge stories to tell beyond the obvious. They're just normal guys in a slightly high risk environment who are being well paid for being willing to work in a really crappy part of the world.
Although they are very well paid they certainly cannot afford to live in a nice city somewhere else and jet in for "assignments".
I call BS but agree with the poster who pointed out that you should always worry about people who WANT to be hit-men or killers for hire. They are probably more dangerous than their Hollywood role models.
posted by Umhlangan at 7:05 AM on December 5, 2008 [1 favorite]
Although they are very well paid they certainly cannot afford to live in a nice city somewhere else and jet in for "assignments".
I call BS but agree with the poster who pointed out that you should always worry about people who WANT to be hit-men or killers for hire. They are probably more dangerous than their Hollywood role models.
posted by Umhlangan at 7:05 AM on December 5, 2008 [1 favorite]
A friend of mine dated a guy for a while that had previously been a Navy SEAL. There are lots of places on the internet to confirm whether someone really is/was really a SEAL. For example, here are ways to spot a fake SEAL.
I doubt there is anything similar for mercenaries, though some of the items in the list above might apply.
posted by charlesv at 7:39 AM on December 5, 2008 [1 favorite]
I doubt there is anything similar for mercenaries, though some of the items in the list above might apply.
posted by charlesv at 7:39 AM on December 5, 2008 [1 favorite]
Also consider the possibility that your friend is either exaggerating or, more likely, has spun or has had spun for her some conjecture or second-hand information into a more fantastic scenario than what is actually true.
As has been emphasized upthread, people who work in "security" do not discuss their assignments, and certainly do not provide titillating details as proof.
posted by desuetude at 7:49 AM on December 5, 2008
As has been emphasized upthread, people who work in "security" do not discuss their assignments, and certainly do not provide titillating details as proof.
posted by desuetude at 7:49 AM on December 5, 2008
Most of these "mercenary types" are not contracted killers. They are contracted to protect from killers and ruffians. Many of them end up being detail for higher level governmental officials in developing countries or oil exes or some such things. The ones I lived next to in Africa were just burnt out guys for the most part. One of them was a bit different in that he was a former Peace Corps Volunteer.
Yeah so you can never be to sure who is a mercenary or what that even really means.
posted by tarvuz at 12:17 PM on December 5, 2008
Yeah so you can never be to sure who is a mercenary or what that even really means.
posted by tarvuz at 12:17 PM on December 5, 2008
Oh and a few of my coworkers in Georgia used to do some work for various members of the Saudi Royal family. But both of those guys would look like metrosexuals if you ever ran across them.
posted by tarvuz at 12:19 PM on December 5, 2008
posted by tarvuz at 12:19 PM on December 5, 2008
Your hitman could be making up colorful stories for the sake of luring in and arresting people who want other people dead for money. How many AP stories have you read where someone wanted someone else dead, and they contacted an undercover FBI agent to do the deadening? And how do you think such undercover agents advertise their availability? Rumors and hearsay.
posted by ostranenie at 5:06 PM on December 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by ostranenie at 5:06 PM on December 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
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