What kind of car should we get?
November 13, 2008 4:23 PM Subscribe
Used hybrid-filter: With ~10k to spend, in terms of upkeep costs and resale value should we buy a Honda Insight or a first gen Toyota Prius?
We're in the market for a new (to us) car and can afford to spend around $10k. We may be able to do a little more for the right car.
We've looked at CR's fuel efficient used car page. CR claims the Insights get 51mpg, the 1st gen Priuses get 41mpg. We've tested a few Echo's but the older ones really have some problems, so they're out.
It looks like we can get a 7-8 y/o Insight/Prius for ~9k. It looks like we might be able to get a second gen Prius ('03, maybe '04) for 14k.
We live in the Bay area so there is a 'California premium' on all of the used hybrids available.
We know the Insights generally need a new battery pack at 150,000 miles which costs 3k, and that 1% of the first gen Priuses have had battery replacements for 2-3k, .3% of second gen Priuses have had battery replacements.
Any opinions on which of the cars will hold their value best and be the cheapest for upkeep? CR seems to give them all similar ratings except it considers the Insight pretty uncomfortable and difficult to get up to highway speeds. Would it be worth stretching outside our comfort zone to try to get a 2nd gen Prius? Thanks!
We're in the market for a new (to us) car and can afford to spend around $10k. We may be able to do a little more for the right car.
We've looked at CR's fuel efficient used car page. CR claims the Insights get 51mpg, the 1st gen Priuses get 41mpg. We've tested a few Echo's but the older ones really have some problems, so they're out.
It looks like we can get a 7-8 y/o Insight/Prius for ~9k. It looks like we might be able to get a second gen Prius ('03, maybe '04) for 14k.
We live in the Bay area so there is a 'California premium' on all of the used hybrids available.
We know the Insights generally need a new battery pack at 150,000 miles which costs 3k, and that 1% of the first gen Priuses have had battery replacements for 2-3k, .3% of second gen Priuses have had battery replacements.
Any opinions on which of the cars will hold their value best and be the cheapest for upkeep? CR seems to give them all similar ratings except it considers the Insight pretty uncomfortable and difficult to get up to highway speeds. Would it be worth stretching outside our comfort zone to try to get a 2nd gen Prius? Thanks!
Make sure you've got a good handle on operating expenses. The difference between a 51 mpg car and a 41 mpg car is only about 58 gal/yr (assuming 12000 mi/yr). Figure gasoline at $2.50/gal and the yearly difference is only about $150. That's pretty much in the noise as far as I'm concerned.
If it was me, I'd take my $10k and buy a low-mileage Honda Civic (non-hybrid) or equivalent. That car won't depreciate much over a couple of years and then, if you still want one, 2nd generation Priuses (Prii?) should be much more available on the used market. The fact that Toyota is about to start selling a 3rd generation Prius will help in that regard.
posted by LastOfHisKind at 5:15 PM on November 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
If it was me, I'd take my $10k and buy a low-mileage Honda Civic (non-hybrid) or equivalent. That car won't depreciate much over a couple of years and then, if you still want one, 2nd generation Priuses (Prii?) should be much more available on the used market. The fact that Toyota is about to start selling a 3rd generation Prius will help in that regard.
posted by LastOfHisKind at 5:15 PM on November 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Note that the Insight is not just two doors, it's a two seater. You can only take one passenger. I would never buy a utilitarian two seater. If I'm only getting two seats, it'd better have a few hundred horsepower and no top : )
Also, although the Insight received decent crash ratings, it's a very small, very light car. The Car Talk guys reviewed it when it first came out (note that its first and only run was 1999-2006 with no changes, so this review holds for whatever year Insight you might buy) and were concerned with safety, but also with more pedestrian things like excessive road noise, almost no cargo space, etc. Read their review here.
I would say that a Prius will, hands down, hold its value better. The increase in mileage you would get in the Insight is, as has been pointed out, probably not worth the other sacrifices you would make in getting one. I can't speak to the maintenance of either car; I'm a shade tree mechanic but there's so much new stuff in hybrids, I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment. Everything outside the confines of powertrain, batteries, and charging, though... I would expect to be just as reliable as every other Honda or Toyota.
Go with the Prius.
posted by autojack at 6:05 PM on November 13, 2008
Also, although the Insight received decent crash ratings, it's a very small, very light car. The Car Talk guys reviewed it when it first came out (note that its first and only run was 1999-2006 with no changes, so this review holds for whatever year Insight you might buy) and were concerned with safety, but also with more pedestrian things like excessive road noise, almost no cargo space, etc. Read their review here.
I would say that a Prius will, hands down, hold its value better. The increase in mileage you would get in the Insight is, as has been pointed out, probably not worth the other sacrifices you would make in getting one. I can't speak to the maintenance of either car; I'm a shade tree mechanic but there's so much new stuff in hybrids, I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment. Everything outside the confines of powertrain, batteries, and charging, though... I would expect to be just as reliable as every other Honda or Toyota.
Go with the Prius.
posted by autojack at 6:05 PM on November 13, 2008
Best answer: I owned an Insight ('00, from '00-'05) and just picked up my new '09 Prius today. No experience with the first gen Prius. I consistently got about 47mpg highway with the Insight, and I used to do all sorts of hypermiling stuff like turn the car off on long downhills, etc. But I also like acceleration and that was probably my mileage downfall. It was a very fun car to drive - light and responsive with plenty of pickup for aggressive highway situations, assuming there was only a driver in the car. If you do mostly city driving with both seats occupied, though, I bet you'll get less. Whenever I had another person in the car, especially a large or heavier friend, the car would struggle on long uphills and mileage would suffer correspondingly.
Regarding autojack's references to road noise and cargo space, I wasn't dissatisfied with either, but then I was a carefree, single chick whose other car was a vintage Saab with a glass pack. I could easily get a bicycle in the trunk, and groceries, luggage, etc. were no problem. Moving furniture, no. I did once get a 35" CRT tv in the front seat, though. Safety-wise, I know that engineering/car-aficionado friends of mine were impressed with the aluminum monocoque approach Honda took, and were nerdy enough to assure me with numbers that the rigidity was even better than steel. I never had any mechanical issues with it - it was a very low maintenance car.
The Prius' mileage may be worse that the Insight's, but I think overall it's a more practical car (at least for my current lifestyle). I'm not in love with the acceleration, but for the other benefits I'm willing to get my speed needs taken care of elsewhere. According to my Toyota sales guy (and the folks over at PriusChat.com) the '10 Prius is supposed to have solar panels built into a sunroof mechanism. My gut feeling is that this will not appeal much to new or current owners, especially given the additional ~$10k it will add to the price of the car, for not much of a return in power/energy. So I think a 2nd generation Prius will actually hold its value well.
posted by cocoagirl at 7:20 PM on November 13, 2008
Regarding autojack's references to road noise and cargo space, I wasn't dissatisfied with either, but then I was a carefree, single chick whose other car was a vintage Saab with a glass pack. I could easily get a bicycle in the trunk, and groceries, luggage, etc. were no problem. Moving furniture, no. I did once get a 35" CRT tv in the front seat, though. Safety-wise, I know that engineering/car-aficionado friends of mine were impressed with the aluminum monocoque approach Honda took, and were nerdy enough to assure me with numbers that the rigidity was even better than steel. I never had any mechanical issues with it - it was a very low maintenance car.
The Prius' mileage may be worse that the Insight's, but I think overall it's a more practical car (at least for my current lifestyle). I'm not in love with the acceleration, but for the other benefits I'm willing to get my speed needs taken care of elsewhere. According to my Toyota sales guy (and the folks over at PriusChat.com) the '10 Prius is supposed to have solar panels built into a sunroof mechanism. My gut feeling is that this will not appeal much to new or current owners, especially given the additional ~$10k it will add to the price of the car, for not much of a return in power/energy. So I think a 2nd generation Prius will actually hold its value well.
posted by cocoagirl at 7:20 PM on November 13, 2008
At $10k, I think you're talking about a first-generation (US) Prius rather than the more recent wedge/sneaker profile ones.
The Prius and the Insight are very different cars. I am impressed with the Insight's aerodynamics and advanced construction, and the Prius's reliable integration of electric and gas power.
As the cars are so different (2 vs 4 seat), I'd say go with the one that suits you best.
And if you are in an area with diamond lane stickers. like California, know that cars with a sticker go for more than ones without, and it's probably worth it to get one with a sticker if you are in an urban area and commute.
posted by zippy at 8:17 PM on November 13, 2008
The Prius and the Insight are very different cars. I am impressed with the Insight's aerodynamics and advanced construction, and the Prius's reliable integration of electric and gas power.
As the cars are so different (2 vs 4 seat), I'd say go with the one that suits you best.
And if you are in an area with diamond lane stickers. like California, know that cars with a sticker go for more than ones without, and it's probably worth it to get one with a sticker if you are in an urban area and commute.
posted by zippy at 8:17 PM on November 13, 2008
I just bought a used 2004 Civic Hybrid for just under $9,000 (near DC, natch). 88k miles, automatic, a shallow cosmetic, uhm, rumple? on the hood (maybe 8" by 4"). It's quiet at highway speed, which was a requirement of mine, and I got 42 mpg over my just-completed first tank, covering two full weeks of driving, most of it commuting, too much of it stop and go. (That's 42 real mpg, not relying on the display, which is about 3 mpg "optimistic".)
By the way, I easily covered more than 500 miles on that one tank. 600 seems possible.
posted by NortonDC at 8:27 PM on November 13, 2008
By the way, I easily covered more than 500 miles on that one tank. 600 seems possible.
posted by NortonDC at 8:27 PM on November 13, 2008
We own both a 01 Insight and a 07 Prius (HSD).
The Insight has the CVT, not the stick-shift. If I don't need the A/C, then it gets 50mpg. It accelerates quite well (for a non-sports car), especially if you kick the CVT into 'sport get-me-moving-damn-the-mileage' mode. It attracts much more attention as it's quite rare (less than 14000 sold in US).
Running the A/C makes it much more sluggish feeling, and kills the MPG. It has a very stiff frame/suspension, and will describe rough road to you in detail.
Road noise is very prevalent. The primary battery failed at 64K miles, and was replaced for free under the warranty. On the older Insights the battery is covered for 150K/10y, but I don't know if that's to the original owner only.
The Prius is much more comfortable and quiet. It actually beats the Insight's mileage in the summer due to the electric air-conditioning that doesn't lug the engine. We have a lifetime MPG of 44.2 right now, and that's almost all in-town driving.
The Insight is very much a 'get the highest mileage by any means necessary' vehicle, and feels like it. The Prius feels more like a luxury car (screens! electric a/c! keyless proximity entry!).
I like them both, but I feel that Toyota has been doing more with development of their hybrid systems than Honda. And I've had nothing but Hondas for years, until the Prius came along. If you can stretch for one of the HST Priuses, I'd go for that.
posted by bitmage at 1:21 PM on November 14, 2008
The Insight has the CVT, not the stick-shift. If I don't need the A/C, then it gets 50mpg. It accelerates quite well (for a non-sports car), especially if you kick the CVT into 'sport get-me-moving-damn-the-mileage' mode. It attracts much more attention as it's quite rare (less than 14000 sold in US).
Running the A/C makes it much more sluggish feeling, and kills the MPG. It has a very stiff frame/suspension, and will describe rough road to you in detail.
Road noise is very prevalent. The primary battery failed at 64K miles, and was replaced for free under the warranty. On the older Insights the battery is covered for 150K/10y, but I don't know if that's to the original owner only.
The Prius is much more comfortable and quiet. It actually beats the Insight's mileage in the summer due to the electric air-conditioning that doesn't lug the engine. We have a lifetime MPG of 44.2 right now, and that's almost all in-town driving.
The Insight is very much a 'get the highest mileage by any means necessary' vehicle, and feels like it. The Prius feels more like a luxury car (screens! electric a/c! keyless proximity entry!).
I like them both, but I feel that Toyota has been doing more with development of their hybrid systems than Honda. And I've had nothing but Hondas for years, until the Prius came along. If you can stretch for one of the HST Priuses, I'd go for that.
posted by bitmage at 1:21 PM on November 14, 2008
Personally I'd not bother with a hybrid and go for the smallest safest car you can. If i didn't have a petrol Dihatsu Sirion, and I had a bit bigger budget, I'd buy a diesel Golf (umm, if used ones weren't so hard to get hold of in Australia). The fuel efficiency is about the same as a prius, and the embedded energy in the car is quite a bit smaller (due to lack of high tech materials).
posted by singingfish at 2:04 PM on November 14, 2008
posted by singingfish at 2:04 PM on November 14, 2008
Another vote for buying a non-hybrid small car. A sixth-generation (1996-2000) Honda Civic DX is half the price, less liable to have problems, and gets nearly the same fuel efficiency.
If I were buying a seven-year-old hybrid, I'd be looking for one with a battery pack that has been recently dealer replaced (with receipt). As noted above, this is ~$3k repair, and at 7+ years old, an original battery should be treated as a part that will need repair sooner rather than later, so that $10,000 car is really a $13,000 car.
posted by brassafrax at 5:42 PM on November 14, 2008
If I were buying a seven-year-old hybrid, I'd be looking for one with a battery pack that has been recently dealer replaced (with receipt). As noted above, this is ~$3k repair, and at 7+ years old, an original battery should be treated as a part that will need repair sooner rather than later, so that $10,000 car is really a $13,000 car.
posted by brassafrax at 5:42 PM on November 14, 2008
Response by poster: We managed to get a 2 y/o second gen Prius for way under kbb- we love it. Thanks everyone!
posted by arnicae at 8:35 AM on December 14, 2008
posted by arnicae at 8:35 AM on December 14, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
As for the first generation, I'd suggest giving it a test drive. Most reviews for the Prius point out that the first generation car had more problems, mainly in terms of the acceleration feeling funny and the wheels transferring a lot of bumpiness to the driver. This is all secondhand knowledge, of course, but that's what I would do. I've heard similar things about the Insight.
The Yaris might be a good option to consider as well, if you want to avoid markup over the enthusiasm for hybrids, but it's new enough that you may have a hard time getting one. You don't seem to need much space, though, and it might save you more gas if you do more highway driving than city driving in slow traffic.
posted by mccarty.tim at 4:36 PM on November 13, 2008