Date around OR have higher standards?
October 21, 2008 12:13 PM Subscribe
DatingFilter: Is it better to "date around" and get experience OR is it better to have higher standards and wait for the right situations?
I'm having a dilemma, mainly because I'm REALLY stupid and REALLY oblivious about dating. Lemme help clarify things a bit by explaining my background briefly.
I grew up in a conservative background, particularly in regards to love and dating (which I will now refer to as "L&D"). Due to difficult circumstances beyond my control, I experienced depression for eight years through almost all of high school and college. I see those years as a mixed bag in that I think they improved my character but also limited me from experiencing many of the things high school and college have to offer -- especially L&D. I'm doing okay nowadays as I'm not depressed anymore but I still have many obstacles ahead of me in terms of establishing a decent career. I did well in college but spent most of that time learning about myself and the world while trying to recover from depression. Unfortunately, I didn't focus on making myself marketable in the job market, so I'm sorta paying for that and making up for that right now. I'm quite busy these days with both working and exploring options to get a better job.
So that brings me to my current and somewhat embarrassing situation: I'm in my mid-20s and I've never had a girlfriend. I've never even had an official date or even a kiss yet. Considering all that, it's probably clear that I'm still a virgin. Although I'd really like to experience L&D (and sex -- okay okay, let's just say "LD&S" now), I'm surprisingly okay with this situation.
I've had several opportunities for LD&S in the past 2-3 years and haven't pursued them, for a few reasons:
(1) I put a large value on my time. I feel that my years in depression made me lose many opportunities. Since I'm a careful and calculating person, I think long-term and see LD&S taking a back seat behind establishing myself along a career path, side-by-side with, or maybe even behind, hobbies and interests I've never had a chance to pursue before.
(2) I have high standards. I have high standards for myself and also high standards for other people. If I'm going to date someone, I want it to be worth the time and effort.
(3) I'm afraid of breaking someone's heart or having my heart broken. I don't want to break someone's heart if I'm not extremely attracted to the person -- they might be looking for something long-term. I also think that if I had a short-term relationship with an exceptional person yet with low long-term potential, my heart would be broken.
(4) My conservative background is influencing me at least a little. I'm a LOT more liberal than I was before but I can't deny the fact that I think that my conservative background influences my perception of relationships. I tend to pursue relationships with long-term potential and would feel bad if I intentionally pursued a short-term relationship for the sake of my own satisfaction.
Before you think, "Whoa there wiseguy, what makes you think you had opportunities for LD&S the past few years in the first place?!", let's just assume I did and still do. I can defend myself on this point but I don't want to ramble on...
Some people think that I should loosen up my standards and start picking up experience with LD&S. One benefit of this would be to build LD&S experience to understand it more and give me a better chance of wooing and retaining the harder-to-get girls. Other people think I should focus on getting a decent career to set myself up for the future and "enjoy my single life while I can" -- besides having a stable life is also attractive to women. Without having to worry about a relationship, I can spend time working towards a better financial life/social status and also have more time for some hobbies.
I think that if I focus myself, I can get myself into a good, stable career by the time I am around 29 or my early 30s. My fear with this is that with no or little dating experience compared to other people my age, I would lack the dating street-smarts to find and retain good partners.
THUS, my questions:
- Is it better to 'date around' and get LD&S experience OR is it better to have higher standards and wait for the right people or situations to come along?
- Do you think LD&S is worth sacrificing other things, such as hobbies, interests, or future potential?
- Does having LD&S experience really help when pursuing relationships?
- Should I change my thinking about anything?
I'm having a dilemma, mainly because I'm REALLY stupid and REALLY oblivious about dating. Lemme help clarify things a bit by explaining my background briefly.
I grew up in a conservative background, particularly in regards to love and dating (which I will now refer to as "L&D"). Due to difficult circumstances beyond my control, I experienced depression for eight years through almost all of high school and college. I see those years as a mixed bag in that I think they improved my character but also limited me from experiencing many of the things high school and college have to offer -- especially L&D. I'm doing okay nowadays as I'm not depressed anymore but I still have many obstacles ahead of me in terms of establishing a decent career. I did well in college but spent most of that time learning about myself and the world while trying to recover from depression. Unfortunately, I didn't focus on making myself marketable in the job market, so I'm sorta paying for that and making up for that right now. I'm quite busy these days with both working and exploring options to get a better job.
So that brings me to my current and somewhat embarrassing situation: I'm in my mid-20s and I've never had a girlfriend. I've never even had an official date or even a kiss yet. Considering all that, it's probably clear that I'm still a virgin. Although I'd really like to experience L&D (and sex -- okay okay, let's just say "LD&S" now), I'm surprisingly okay with this situation.
I've had several opportunities for LD&S in the past 2-3 years and haven't pursued them, for a few reasons:
(1) I put a large value on my time. I feel that my years in depression made me lose many opportunities. Since I'm a careful and calculating person, I think long-term and see LD&S taking a back seat behind establishing myself along a career path, side-by-side with, or maybe even behind, hobbies and interests I've never had a chance to pursue before.
(2) I have high standards. I have high standards for myself and also high standards for other people. If I'm going to date someone, I want it to be worth the time and effort.
(3) I'm afraid of breaking someone's heart or having my heart broken. I don't want to break someone's heart if I'm not extremely attracted to the person -- they might be looking for something long-term. I also think that if I had a short-term relationship with an exceptional person yet with low long-term potential, my heart would be broken.
(4) My conservative background is influencing me at least a little. I'm a LOT more liberal than I was before but I can't deny the fact that I think that my conservative background influences my perception of relationships. I tend to pursue relationships with long-term potential and would feel bad if I intentionally pursued a short-term relationship for the sake of my own satisfaction.
Before you think, "Whoa there wiseguy, what makes you think you had opportunities for LD&S the past few years in the first place?!", let's just assume I did and still do. I can defend myself on this point but I don't want to ramble on...
Some people think that I should loosen up my standards and start picking up experience with LD&S. One benefit of this would be to build LD&S experience to understand it more and give me a better chance of wooing and retaining the harder-to-get girls. Other people think I should focus on getting a decent career to set myself up for the future and "enjoy my single life while I can" -- besides having a stable life is also attractive to women. Without having to worry about a relationship, I can spend time working towards a better financial life/social status and also have more time for some hobbies.
I think that if I focus myself, I can get myself into a good, stable career by the time I am around 29 or my early 30s. My fear with this is that with no or little dating experience compared to other people my age, I would lack the dating street-smarts to find and retain good partners.
THUS, my questions:
- Is it better to 'date around' and get LD&S experience OR is it better to have higher standards and wait for the right people or situations to come along?
- Do you think LD&S is worth sacrificing other things, such as hobbies, interests, or future potential?
- Does having LD&S experience really help when pursuing relationships?
- Should I change my thinking about anything?
It really depends on how you feel about it, if you're ready, if you want it to be special or just get it over with. I had opportunities that didn't feel right, and I could have forced it, but I waited until it felt right and natural for me. It was a fair bit later than most people, I think, but I honestly don't regret it. I have a good friend who waited until 26 for much the same reasons, and she's very happy with her decision as well.
I'm not one of those people who thinks the first time has to be a super special, mind blowing experience, but I do believe letting it happen naturally is the best course of action.
posted by yellowbinder at 12:25 PM on October 21, 2008
I'm not one of those people who thinks the first time has to be a super special, mind blowing experience, but I do believe letting it happen naturally is the best course of action.
posted by yellowbinder at 12:25 PM on October 21, 2008
You are, IMHO, approaching it all wrong. These aren't cattle, they are people, this isn't a commodity, this is your life. You are discussing it like buying pork bellies.
There is nothing wrong with being conservative, or being by yourself, or waiting for mr/ms right.
If you meet someone you want to spend time with, and enriches your life, go for it. If you don't feel the need to date, be around other people, whatever, that is fine too.
It's a cliche, but let your heart be your guide. No one here can help you with this issue really, only you know what you want. There is no proper methodology to follow, you know what you want and are comfortable with.
posted by Ponderance at 12:27 PM on October 21, 2008 [4 favorites]
There is nothing wrong with being conservative, or being by yourself, or waiting for mr/ms right.
If you meet someone you want to spend time with, and enriches your life, go for it. If you don't feel the need to date, be around other people, whatever, that is fine too.
It's a cliche, but let your heart be your guide. No one here can help you with this issue really, only you know what you want. There is no proper methodology to follow, you know what you want and are comfortable with.
posted by Ponderance at 12:27 PM on October 21, 2008 [4 favorites]
IMO, you need to get your heart broken at least twice before you figure it out, and at least one of those times you need to also break someone else's heart.
What are you looking for RIGHT NOW? Do you want to be in a serious relationship or get married right away? Or do you want to have some experience dating so that you know what you're really looking for long term?
What qualities are important to you? Do you want someone who is conservative like you? Or do you just want someone who won't mind your conservative past?
Dating, developing a relationship, love and sex are NEVER, EVER a waste of time, even when the relationship doesn't work out. You learn something about yourself and you learn about other people. It's not about the destination, it's about the journey. Start slowly and trust your heart, but make sure you jump in and go for it when your heart tells you to.
posted by purplecurlygirl at 12:39 PM on October 21, 2008 [4 favorites]
What are you looking for RIGHT NOW? Do you want to be in a serious relationship or get married right away? Or do you want to have some experience dating so that you know what you're really looking for long term?
What qualities are important to you? Do you want someone who is conservative like you? Or do you just want someone who won't mind your conservative past?
Dating, developing a relationship, love and sex are NEVER, EVER a waste of time, even when the relationship doesn't work out. You learn something about yourself and you learn about other people. It's not about the destination, it's about the journey. Start slowly and trust your heart, but make sure you jump in and go for it when your heart tells you to.
posted by purplecurlygirl at 12:39 PM on October 21, 2008 [4 favorites]
We all date for different reasons. Sometimes those reasons change. Sometimes they change many times over our lives.
The best guide to "why should I be dating now" is your own self and your own comfort level. A year and a half ago, after a bad breakup followed by some depressing hookups, I decided I wasn't going to date until it looked like anything serious would come of it. After a few months, I met someone wonderful and we were involved for almost a year.
Then he broke up with me this July. And after taking a few months to heal, I've realized that I think I'm ready to date again, but right now I would NOT be looking for anything serious; instead, my motivation is "I need to get myself out of the house" and "I need to remind myself that there's more fun out there and that the fun I had with my ex didn't use up my personal fun quotient." I'm not ready for something serious, but I also don't want to deny myself either.
And I'll probably change my mind again in a few months. In all cases, the real constant is me -- what I'm comfortable with, and what I am and am not ready for.
And the same is true of you. If your priority is waiting until you feel like there's a chance for something serious, you plain wouldn't feel right if you tried to be casual about it. But if you feel like maybe you just need to get some lighthearted fun and practice under your belt, then there's nothing wrong with that either. The best thing is to be honest and clear with yourself about what you want, and then -- go try getting it. If what you're doing starts feeling wrong, stop.
Mind, it took me 38 years to figure that out, so this is definitely a sort of "that's easier said than done" kind of thing. But it also feels like the kind of thing I sort of knew all along and didn't trust that instinct in myself, so -- if this is your instinct too, go for it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:39 PM on October 21, 2008 [1 favorite]
The best guide to "why should I be dating now" is your own self and your own comfort level. A year and a half ago, after a bad breakup followed by some depressing hookups, I decided I wasn't going to date until it looked like anything serious would come of it. After a few months, I met someone wonderful and we were involved for almost a year.
Then he broke up with me this July. And after taking a few months to heal, I've realized that I think I'm ready to date again, but right now I would NOT be looking for anything serious; instead, my motivation is "I need to get myself out of the house" and "I need to remind myself that there's more fun out there and that the fun I had with my ex didn't use up my personal fun quotient." I'm not ready for something serious, but I also don't want to deny myself either.
And I'll probably change my mind again in a few months. In all cases, the real constant is me -- what I'm comfortable with, and what I am and am not ready for.
And the same is true of you. If your priority is waiting until you feel like there's a chance for something serious, you plain wouldn't feel right if you tried to be casual about it. But if you feel like maybe you just need to get some lighthearted fun and practice under your belt, then there's nothing wrong with that either. The best thing is to be honest and clear with yourself about what you want, and then -- go try getting it. If what you're doing starts feeling wrong, stop.
Mind, it took me 38 years to figure that out, so this is definitely a sort of "that's easier said than done" kind of thing. But it also feels like the kind of thing I sort of knew all along and didn't trust that instinct in myself, so -- if this is your instinct too, go for it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:39 PM on October 21, 2008 [1 favorite]
You've got to calm down. You're treating this question like you're auditioning for Jeopardy. It doesn't work like this.
Is it better to pursue LD&S then focus on your career? Sometimes. Sometimes not.
Is it better to have fun and date around or wait for someone serious? Sometimes the latter. Sometimes the former.
I won't go on in that vein because it's already tedious, but the deal is that you need to do two things: pursue self-knowledge and do a little experimenting with your comfort level in relationships. Experiment with having a little fun. Experiment with taking a few emotional risks.
You're probably going to get your heart broken sooner or later. Sometime, someone's going to let you down. That is the price of admission.
The thing is, like everything else in life that gets people's fear fibers going, you can freak yourself out so bad worrying about it that you take a mild fear of heights and turn it into the kind of crippling neurosis that keeps you off elevators and gets you walking twenty floors up to work. You've got to try some stuff out to learn what suits you, what kind of person you want, what kind of life you want. You can't philosophize when you need to be doing.
And where did you get the idea that dating was going to force you to give up hobbies? They're just relationships. They fit in a variety of shapes. You'll find one that suits you.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:40 PM on October 21, 2008
Is it better to pursue LD&S then focus on your career? Sometimes. Sometimes not.
Is it better to have fun and date around or wait for someone serious? Sometimes the latter. Sometimes the former.
I won't go on in that vein because it's already tedious, but the deal is that you need to do two things: pursue self-knowledge and do a little experimenting with your comfort level in relationships. Experiment with having a little fun. Experiment with taking a few emotional risks.
You're probably going to get your heart broken sooner or later. Sometime, someone's going to let you down. That is the price of admission.
The thing is, like everything else in life that gets people's fear fibers going, you can freak yourself out so bad worrying about it that you take a mild fear of heights and turn it into the kind of crippling neurosis that keeps you off elevators and gets you walking twenty floors up to work. You've got to try some stuff out to learn what suits you, what kind of person you want, what kind of life you want. You can't philosophize when you need to be doing.
And where did you get the idea that dating was going to force you to give up hobbies? They're just relationships. They fit in a variety of shapes. You'll find one that suits you.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:40 PM on October 21, 2008
1. There's two ways of dating "around" that I have seen. One involves meeting lots of people to get to know them, make friends, go places, and harmless flirting while the other involves lots of hooking up without much consideration to the rest of the activities. I used to date (the former type) a lot and it was indeed fun. I met a lot of girls, many of them I'm still friends with even after my marriage. It also taught me a lot about the type of person I wanted to finally be with. Most importantly, it taught me a lot about girls, emotions, trust, confidence, respect, and myself.
2. I believe that unless you somehow know exactly who is going to be the right person for you, your "standards" are just holding you back from meeting that person. All my life I thought my dream girl would be some cute little nerdy girl who loves xkcd and has an active deviantart account. Based on that, I often disregarded many girls who just seemed too "mainstream" to me. In the end, after years of dating, I found out that my dream girl wasn't some eclectic indie rocker with a penchant for algorithms but a wonderful, nice girl who truly loves me, regardless of whether she met my illogical requirements or not.
3. Feel free to ignore all the popular myths and advices like "enjoy single life" or "wait for the right person" or "you have to be patient" or "spend your time doing hobbies." etc. because in the end, you're going to do what you're going to do. If you're miserable single, you will be miserable single kayaking through Okefenokee or rock-climbing in Montana. What you should do, is what you honestly feel like. If you feel like going out and meeting people, go for it. If you feel like giving online dating a shot, go for it.
4. There are no rights and wrongs in dating. I met a girl through OkCupid and we became good friends. She found a nice guy through the same site and I didn't freak out or give her crap for it. A year later she invited me to her baby shower and made me the godfather of the baby. It was at this baby shower, that I met my wife. Did I meet my wife via the internet? No, but had I not met my friend and remained friends with her even though she told me she loves some other guy, I would have never met my wife.
5. Don't worry about being hurt or hurting other people. You will be hurt, they will be hurt. Everyone will just have to learn from it. If not the first time then by the 54th time around. It's ok. If you get dumped or passed over for someone else, good. Saved you the time of finding that out a month, year, or even a decade later.
So in nutshell, don't hold yourself back because of what you "think" is the right person for you. Go out and meet people if you want. Sit back and pursue hobbies if you want. This is your life, there are no rights and wrongs (well as long as it doesn't hurt anyone). What is true is that the more people you meet, the more you will be prepared to finally say "YES!" to the right person.
posted by chime at 12:42 PM on October 21, 2008 [14 favorites]
2. I believe that unless you somehow know exactly who is going to be the right person for you, your "standards" are just holding you back from meeting that person. All my life I thought my dream girl would be some cute little nerdy girl who loves xkcd and has an active deviantart account. Based on that, I often disregarded many girls who just seemed too "mainstream" to me. In the end, after years of dating, I found out that my dream girl wasn't some eclectic indie rocker with a penchant for algorithms but a wonderful, nice girl who truly loves me, regardless of whether she met my illogical requirements or not.
3. Feel free to ignore all the popular myths and advices like "enjoy single life" or "wait for the right person" or "you have to be patient" or "spend your time doing hobbies." etc. because in the end, you're going to do what you're going to do. If you're miserable single, you will be miserable single kayaking through Okefenokee or rock-climbing in Montana. What you should do, is what you honestly feel like. If you feel like going out and meeting people, go for it. If you feel like giving online dating a shot, go for it.
4. There are no rights and wrongs in dating. I met a girl through OkCupid and we became good friends. She found a nice guy through the same site and I didn't freak out or give her crap for it. A year later she invited me to her baby shower and made me the godfather of the baby. It was at this baby shower, that I met my wife. Did I meet my wife via the internet? No, but had I not met my friend and remained friends with her even though she told me she loves some other guy, I would have never met my wife.
5. Don't worry about being hurt or hurting other people. You will be hurt, they will be hurt. Everyone will just have to learn from it. If not the first time then by the 54th time around. It's ok. If you get dumped or passed over for someone else, good. Saved you the time of finding that out a month, year, or even a decade later.
So in nutshell, don't hold yourself back because of what you "think" is the right person for you. Go out and meet people if you want. Sit back and pursue hobbies if you want. This is your life, there are no rights and wrongs (well as long as it doesn't hurt anyone). What is true is that the more people you meet, the more you will be prepared to finally say "YES!" to the right person.
posted by chime at 12:42 PM on October 21, 2008 [14 favorites]
I'll repeat myself from another askme:
"When you're dead, you'll regret not having fun with your genital organs."
— Orton
posted by mandal at 12:43 PM on October 21, 2008 [1 favorite]
"When you're dead, you'll regret not having fun with your genital organs."
— Orton
posted by mandal at 12:43 PM on October 21, 2008 [1 favorite]
You're the only person who can answer your first 3 questions. It depends entirely on how important LD&S are to you and you shouldn't pursue LD&S just because you think it's the socially appropriate thing to do.
I probably know you should compartmentalize your life so much. Lots of folks do all of these things at once. I also think that broken hearts are inevitable and if you worry obsessively about hurting other people you'll lead yourself you down a path to paralytic narcissism. Girls are just other humans on this planet and since you could get hit by a truck tomorrow, it might be a shame to miss out on getting to know some of them. It's good that you want to take your relationships seriously but if things go wrong, it's not always a waste of time or a sin.
Pursue your hobbies/interests and you might meet a girl that shares them.
posted by bonobothegreat at 12:43 PM on October 21, 2008
I probably know you should compartmentalize your life so much. Lots of folks do all of these things at once. I also think that broken hearts are inevitable and if you worry obsessively about hurting other people you'll lead yourself you down a path to paralytic narcissism. Girls are just other humans on this planet and since you could get hit by a truck tomorrow, it might be a shame to miss out on getting to know some of them. It's good that you want to take your relationships seriously but if things go wrong, it's not always a waste of time or a sin.
Pursue your hobbies/interests and you might meet a girl that shares them.
posted by bonobothegreat at 12:43 PM on October 21, 2008
I think a lot of people are afraid to take risks in pursuing what they really want.
You sound like you want LD&S but are afraid that your heart will be broken or feel some lingering guilt from your upbringing. So you say that you're "too busy" and "have high standards" as an excuse for not pursuing LD&S. And now you're here asking us to validate your excuses.
Well, I will say if you're completely honest with yourself, then finding the balance between work, personal time and relationships is something only you can determine. But make sure that balance comes from what you truly want in life and not from how fear limits you.
posted by turaho at 12:44 PM on October 21, 2008
You sound like you want LD&S but are afraid that your heart will be broken or feel some lingering guilt from your upbringing. So you say that you're "too busy" and "have high standards" as an excuse for not pursuing LD&S. And now you're here asking us to validate your excuses.
Well, I will say if you're completely honest with yourself, then finding the balance between work, personal time and relationships is something only you can determine. But make sure that balance comes from what you truly want in life and not from how fear limits you.
posted by turaho at 12:44 PM on October 21, 2008
Before you think, "Whoa there wiseguy, what makes you think you had opportunities for LD&S the past few years in the first place?!", let's just assume I did and still do. I can defend myself on this point but I don't want to ramble on...
The fact that you brought this up shows that you are currently incapable of having a healthy relationship with another human being. Look at that statement again: relationship with another human being. You don't really know what that means. Instead, based on your "lost years", you've decided that you can control the present and through a certain number of steps, you can control how your life works and how it will turn out. You haven't had a relationship yet because you haven't convinced yourself (rightly) that you'll be able to control not only another person but also how that relationship will work. You are afraid and fearful and scared and you are blaming your past (your years of depression, your conservative background, etc) for how you've turned out. You don't want a girlfriend. You don't want a relationship. You don't want to deal with another human being. What you want is to be given a girl, given a relationship, give a marriage, without having to do any of the hardwork or take any of the risks that is required in a relationship. You're blaming your past for not providing you with the tools necessary to have a healthy relationship with another human being. Instead of trying to figure out those tools (and this question is completely wrong in this regard - it reads as if you want a pity party to agree with about how hard your life is), you want to be given a girl and not have to work at it.
You are not ready for a healthy relationship. You are not ready to date. Get yourself to a therapist, work through your control issues, and then, once you can accept the risks associated with having a relationship, then go out and find one.
posted by Stynxno at 12:45 PM on October 21, 2008 [6 favorites]
The fact that you brought this up shows that you are currently incapable of having a healthy relationship with another human being. Look at that statement again: relationship with another human being. You don't really know what that means. Instead, based on your "lost years", you've decided that you can control the present and through a certain number of steps, you can control how your life works and how it will turn out. You haven't had a relationship yet because you haven't convinced yourself (rightly) that you'll be able to control not only another person but also how that relationship will work. You are afraid and fearful and scared and you are blaming your past (your years of depression, your conservative background, etc) for how you've turned out. You don't want a girlfriend. You don't want a relationship. You don't want to deal with another human being. What you want is to be given a girl, given a relationship, give a marriage, without having to do any of the hardwork or take any of the risks that is required in a relationship. You're blaming your past for not providing you with the tools necessary to have a healthy relationship with another human being. Instead of trying to figure out those tools (and this question is completely wrong in this regard - it reads as if you want a pity party to agree with about how hard your life is), you want to be given a girl and not have to work at it.
You are not ready for a healthy relationship. You are not ready to date. Get yourself to a therapist, work through your control issues, and then, once you can accept the risks associated with having a relationship, then go out and find one.
posted by Stynxno at 12:45 PM on October 21, 2008 [6 favorites]
Do whatever you feel, and approach things with an open mind. A don't close doors before you've had a look behind type analogy might help. LD&S isn't a black and white 'one night stand' vs 'might as well be married' scenario. There are shades of grey.
If you feel like dating, kissing, making out or having sex with someone, then do it. It's highly unlikely that you'll break someone's heart, and you'll gain all sorts of experience about yourself and the opposite sex.
If you don't, then don't.
posted by djgh at 12:46 PM on October 21, 2008
If you feel like dating, kissing, making out or having sex with someone, then do it. It's highly unlikely that you'll break someone's heart, and you'll gain all sorts of experience about yourself and the opposite sex.
If you don't, then don't.
posted by djgh at 12:46 PM on October 21, 2008
That should be "YOU probably know you should compartmentalize your life so much."
posted by bonobothegreat at 12:46 PM on October 21, 2008
posted by bonobothegreat at 12:46 PM on October 21, 2008
You are not ready for a healthy relationship. You are not ready to date. Get yourself to a therapist, work through your control issues, and then, once you can accept the risks associated with having a relationship, then go out and find one.
*blink* I gotta ask, Styxno, how the hell did you get all that simply from "let's just assume that I have had romantic opportunities"?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:51 PM on October 21, 2008 [2 favorites]
*blink* I gotta ask, Styxno, how the hell did you get all that simply from "let's just assume that I have had romantic opportunities"?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:51 PM on October 21, 2008 [2 favorites]
The details of your past and personality are mostly irrelevant. It's better to date around. You don't want to wait around for the right one for a few important reasons:
1. There is no such thing as "the right one." There are lots of people who are more or less right in different ways.
2. You don't even know if your criteria for "rightness" are valid. You haven't reality-tested them. As chime pointed out (and as my own experience has borne out), you might have a laundry-list of traits you consider desirable. If you date around a while, you may discover many of the items on that list to be irrelevant or even negative, and you may discover a few other items that really belong on your list.
3. You wouldn't know what to do with yourself even if you did meet the right one. What I mean is that even if you had magically figured out what you're really looking for in someone, you probably need to grind off some of your rough edges so that you're a better date yourself. You could meet an excellent match tomorrow and still blow it. It's a bit callous, but you can think of dating as practice.
Dating is how you meet people. It's how you learn what you like. It's how you learn how to relate to other people romantically.
(Offer valid in most Western countries. Your mileage may vary. Discontinue use if sudden bleeding occurs.)
Finally:
Should I change my thinking about anything?
Almost all of us should, probably.
posted by adamrice at 12:56 PM on October 21, 2008 [2 favorites]
1. There is no such thing as "the right one." There are lots of people who are more or less right in different ways.
2. You don't even know if your criteria for "rightness" are valid. You haven't reality-tested them. As chime pointed out (and as my own experience has borne out), you might have a laundry-list of traits you consider desirable. If you date around a while, you may discover many of the items on that list to be irrelevant or even negative, and you may discover a few other items that really belong on your list.
3. You wouldn't know what to do with yourself even if you did meet the right one. What I mean is that even if you had magically figured out what you're really looking for in someone, you probably need to grind off some of your rough edges so that you're a better date yourself. You could meet an excellent match tomorrow and still blow it. It's a bit callous, but you can think of dating as practice.
Dating is how you meet people. It's how you learn what you like. It's how you learn how to relate to other people romantically.
(Offer valid in most Western countries. Your mileage may vary. Discontinue use if sudden bleeding occurs.)
Finally:
Should I change my thinking about anything?
Almost all of us should, probably.
posted by adamrice at 12:56 PM on October 21, 2008 [2 favorites]
I would echo the advice from chime, above. Additional thoughts:
- Does having LD&S experience really help when pursuing relationships?
Experience is worthwhile. I didn't do much dating in my 20s and 30s for similar reasons as yours. Some of the experiences were painful. Some were fun and positive. I met my husband when I was 37. The sporadic LD&S experiences that I had prior meeting my husband were very helpful in helping me know that he was "the one". I may not have appreciated his good qualities if I hadn't had the past experiences as a gauge.
Don't wait for for the right people to come along. You need to seek them, with your standards, and some flexibility, in mind.
You might try to have some casual, low-intensity experiences. Try socializing with a group. Volunteer organizations are a great way to find a group to socialize with. If it gets uncomfortable, you can find a different organization.
- Do you think LD&S is worth sacrificing other things, such as hobbies, interests, or future potential?
True love is worth sacrificing some things. There should be a give and take.
- Should I change my thinking about anything?
Hyper-responsible people have to be careful not to put off joy and fun. It's great that you know your standards and seem to be very self-aware. These qualities will help you. As you venture into the LD&S world, you should have someone to confide in... a trusted friend or a good therapist. A confidante will help you with the confusion and intensity of LD&S, and will help you celebrate the good times. Good luck!
posted by valannc at 12:56 PM on October 21, 2008
- Does having LD&S experience really help when pursuing relationships?
Experience is worthwhile. I didn't do much dating in my 20s and 30s for similar reasons as yours. Some of the experiences were painful. Some were fun and positive. I met my husband when I was 37. The sporadic LD&S experiences that I had prior meeting my husband were very helpful in helping me know that he was "the one". I may not have appreciated his good qualities if I hadn't had the past experiences as a gauge.
Don't wait for for the right people to come along. You need to seek them, with your standards, and some flexibility, in mind.
You might try to have some casual, low-intensity experiences. Try socializing with a group. Volunteer organizations are a great way to find a group to socialize with. If it gets uncomfortable, you can find a different organization.
- Do you think LD&S is worth sacrificing other things, such as hobbies, interests, or future potential?
True love is worth sacrificing some things. There should be a give and take.
- Should I change my thinking about anything?
Hyper-responsible people have to be careful not to put off joy and fun. It's great that you know your standards and seem to be very self-aware. These qualities will help you. As you venture into the LD&S world, you should have someone to confide in... a trusted friend or a good therapist. A confidante will help you with the confusion and intensity of LD&S, and will help you celebrate the good times. Good luck!
posted by valannc at 12:56 PM on October 21, 2008
Yeah, I think Styxno is wrong. I don't think you're incapable of a healthy romantic relationship, I just don't think you have any experience with healthy romantic relationships. Heck, even people with lots of experience get things wrong.
Don't let him discourage you.
posted by turaho at 12:57 PM on October 21, 2008
Don't let him discourage you.
posted by turaho at 12:57 PM on October 21, 2008
If you like someone, ask her out. If you don't, don't. It's fruitless to think in terms of "is this girl good enough for a long term relationship?" when you don't even know her yet. There is no black mark on your record if it doesn't work out. You just move on. I think you are putting way too much pressure on yourself to make the "right" decision, and thus avoiding making any decisions.
posted by desjardins at 12:57 PM on October 21, 2008
posted by desjardins at 12:57 PM on October 21, 2008
I'm sorry, but I'm with Styxno a little bit, in that I don't think you're ready to date yet, although not quite as brutal as their assessment was.
I think you need to find yourself, and be comfortable and like yourself, before you'll make a good partner to someone else. You need to live life and heck, if a dating opportunity presents itself, then you can decide whether or not to pursue it.
This isn't a binary equation and it's not black and white and there are SO MANY shades of gray. Go out there. Enjoy your hobbies. You know the best way to meet someone you're compatible with? Through a shared activity.
It's a total cliche, I know, but I cannot stress enough about how your mom or your aunt or your grandma was right. When you are engaged in an activity you love, you are truly yourself and your BEST self. Every time I met someone through a shared activity, it was always someone i would have never picked out of a web site or a lineup as someone I wanted to date. But through the shared activity I got to know people in a way you never would through the standard dating regime, which is something I was never good at or comfortable with.
You are correct that you don't know enough about how this all works, but MeFi can't teach you that. LIFE and time will teach you that.
posted by micawber at 1:00 PM on October 21, 2008 [1 favorite]
I think you need to find yourself, and be comfortable and like yourself, before you'll make a good partner to someone else. You need to live life and heck, if a dating opportunity presents itself, then you can decide whether or not to pursue it.
This isn't a binary equation and it's not black and white and there are SO MANY shades of gray. Go out there. Enjoy your hobbies. You know the best way to meet someone you're compatible with? Through a shared activity.
It's a total cliche, I know, but I cannot stress enough about how your mom or your aunt or your grandma was right. When you are engaged in an activity you love, you are truly yourself and your BEST self. Every time I met someone through a shared activity, it was always someone i would have never picked out of a web site or a lineup as someone I wanted to date. But through the shared activity I got to know people in a way you never would through the standard dating regime, which is something I was never good at or comfortable with.
You are correct that you don't know enough about how this all works, but MeFi can't teach you that. LIFE and time will teach you that.
posted by micawber at 1:00 PM on October 21, 2008 [1 favorite]
Your question gives us a false dichotomy, you can has high standards WHILE dating around.
My two cents:
1. Relationships don't fit into cost/benefit spreadsheets. It's better to have love and lost...
2. There is no guarantee that anyone will be 'worth' your time, sorry, that's part of the learning process, your peoplefilter will get better as you go along. It will always be worth your time to continue learning and growing.
3. Don't lead people along, it's better to cut something off than drag it out. Heartbreak will happen to you and others, that's life.
4. In any relationship, all you have to do is enjoy what it is, the two of you together. Any first date magic can be crushed by the mental baggage of 'long-term potential'.
Good luck!
posted by limited slip at 1:00 PM on October 21, 2008
My two cents:
1. Relationships don't fit into cost/benefit spreadsheets. It's better to have love and lost...
2. There is no guarantee that anyone will be 'worth' your time, sorry, that's part of the learning process, your peoplefilter will get better as you go along. It will always be worth your time to continue learning and growing.
3. Don't lead people along, it's better to cut something off than drag it out. Heartbreak will happen to you and others, that's life.
4. In any relationship, all you have to do is enjoy what it is, the two of you together. Any first date magic can be crushed by the mental baggage of 'long-term potential'.
Good luck!
posted by limited slip at 1:00 PM on October 21, 2008
Stynxno said CURRENTLY incapable, not forever-until-the-end-of-time-doomed-to-die-alone incapable.I agree that therapy would help the OP.
posted by spec80 at 1:02 PM on October 21, 2008
posted by spec80 at 1:02 PM on October 21, 2008
Response by poster: It really depends on the person. Some people are OK dating a bunch of people, some gotta hold out for that Special Someone (and in the end are happy they did so).
My personal inclination is that it is a really good idea to have a few experiences where you only went on one date, a few experiences where you had a short-term relationship, and a few where you had a long-term, just to spread it all out a bit. Meeting and dating lots of people--even casually--will help you learn about others and yourself in the long run.
But if it doesn't sit well with you to do that, don't force it. Not everybody is cut out to be a Casanova.
One thing that does worry me though is that the combination of high standards and unwillingness to invest a lot of time in a relationship will probably mean you won't get a lot of luck with women. This is exacerbated by the fact that you have no experience with them at all. While I don't think you necessarily have to make a commitment to trying to meet women every Friday night at the bar, I think it would be worthwhile to start meeting women through friends, sports clubs, whatever, just to build a base and learn to interact with them and flirt around. You don't want to be that dude who is 35 and unable to attract any women because their relationship mindset has matured while yours hasn't even developed yet.
posted by Anonymous at 1:03 PM on October 21, 2008
My personal inclination is that it is a really good idea to have a few experiences where you only went on one date, a few experiences where you had a short-term relationship, and a few where you had a long-term, just to spread it all out a bit. Meeting and dating lots of people--even casually--will help you learn about others and yourself in the long run.
But if it doesn't sit well with you to do that, don't force it. Not everybody is cut out to be a Casanova.
One thing that does worry me though is that the combination of high standards and unwillingness to invest a lot of time in a relationship will probably mean you won't get a lot of luck with women. This is exacerbated by the fact that you have no experience with them at all. While I don't think you necessarily have to make a commitment to trying to meet women every Friday night at the bar, I think it would be worthwhile to start meeting women through friends, sports clubs, whatever, just to build a base and learn to interact with them and flirt around. You don't want to be that dude who is 35 and unable to attract any women because their relationship mindset has matured while yours hasn't even developed yet.
posted by Anonymous at 1:03 PM on October 21, 2008
I just caught this line: Do you think LD&S is worth sacrificing other things, such as hobbies, interests, or future potential?
I have no idea where you got this idea from. Maybe Stynxno is right and you're not ready for a relationship. I do agree with him that you don't want to take the risks necessary for relationships. You're coming off as if women are this strange species ("wooing and retaining those hard-to-get girls") and like you can figure out this magical formula that will put your life in place and make it run like clockwork. You can't "figure out" life or "figure out" women. You have to bumble and stumble along like the rest of us.
posted by desjardins at 1:04 PM on October 21, 2008
I have no idea where you got this idea from. Maybe Stynxno is right and you're not ready for a relationship. I do agree with him that you don't want to take the risks necessary for relationships. You're coming off as if women are this strange species ("wooing and retaining those hard-to-get girls") and like you can figure out this magical formula that will put your life in place and make it run like clockwork. You can't "figure out" life or "figure out" women. You have to bumble and stumble along like the rest of us.
posted by desjardins at 1:04 PM on October 21, 2008
I think that if I focus myself, I can get myself into a good, stable career by the time I am around 29 or my early 30s. My fear with this is that with no or little dating experience compared to other people my age, I would lack the dating street-smarts to find and retain good partners.
But with no or very little experience in being a partner, why would someone want to date you?
I'm not being snarky. Past a certain age, in this culture, never having had a long-term relationship or a series of shorter-but-still-serious relationships, your never-been-with-someone status will send up a red flag to many women, and this will naturally make your pool of potential partners smaller. Maybe that's okay with you - I wouldn't say that it never works.
- Does having LD&S experience really help when pursuing relationships?
The thing is, one learns how to be in relationships by being in relationships. The caveat is that I'm speaking only from my own experience and that of people I know well. My first relationship (I was 20) was a disaster, because I had no idea what I was doing. I made all kinds of idiot mistakes. My communication skills were awful. I did better in my second relationship, and so on. And the dating between relationships was helped by all the stuff I learned when I was in relationships. Maybe you're way smarter than this....but if you're human, you're going to make really dumb mistakes in relationships.
- Do you think LD&S is worth sacrificing other things, such as hobbies, interests, or future potential?
No. But they're not mutually exclusive. Most people maintain their careers and hobbies while also dating. You'd be a hideously dull person if you didn't. Also, you might meet someone you really really like - and who likes you back - by engaging in your hobby and meeting others who do, as well.
posted by rtha at 1:08 PM on October 21, 2008
But with no or very little experience in being a partner, why would someone want to date you?
I'm not being snarky. Past a certain age, in this culture, never having had a long-term relationship or a series of shorter-but-still-serious relationships, your never-been-with-someone status will send up a red flag to many women, and this will naturally make your pool of potential partners smaller. Maybe that's okay with you - I wouldn't say that it never works.
- Does having LD&S experience really help when pursuing relationships?
The thing is, one learns how to be in relationships by being in relationships. The caveat is that I'm speaking only from my own experience and that of people I know well. My first relationship (I was 20) was a disaster, because I had no idea what I was doing. I made all kinds of idiot mistakes. My communication skills were awful. I did better in my second relationship, and so on. And the dating between relationships was helped by all the stuff I learned when I was in relationships. Maybe you're way smarter than this....but if you're human, you're going to make really dumb mistakes in relationships.
- Do you think LD&S is worth sacrificing other things, such as hobbies, interests, or future potential?
No. But they're not mutually exclusive. Most people maintain their careers and hobbies while also dating. You'd be a hideously dull person if you didn't. Also, you might meet someone you really really like - and who likes you back - by engaging in your hobby and meeting others who do, as well.
posted by rtha at 1:08 PM on October 21, 2008
Stynxno said CURRENTLY incapable, not forever-until-the-end-of-time-doomed-to-die-alone incapable.
No, I know. I just am not seeing the signs of said incapability.
But eh, could be a your-mileage-may-vary thing. Styxno's comment just came across as a tetch abrupt, but that could just be up to the Intertubes being funky.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:13 PM on October 21, 2008
No, I know. I just am not seeing the signs of said incapability.
But eh, could be a your-mileage-may-vary thing. Styxno's comment just came across as a tetch abrupt, but that could just be up to the Intertubes being funky.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:13 PM on October 21, 2008
My bad, EmpressCallipygos. I was replying to turaho's response. Saying not to let Stynxno's answer discourage the OP allows the OP to dismiss it, but therapy is a valid suggestion. It can greatly help his last question of changing his thinking.
posted by spec80 at 1:26 PM on October 21, 2008
posted by spec80 at 1:26 PM on October 21, 2008
DATE AROUND! Please. Get hurt. Put yourself on the line. Try everything. Life is messy, and no amount of planning will keep your hands from getting dirty. Might as well get your junk dirty too...
Really. If you like the plotting and planning, I'll give you an apt analogy: a potential carpenter doesn't wait for the perfect tool and the piece of wood to make their first piece of furniture. They start moving wood, cutting it, shaping it, learning about it. Stynxno's comment might seem harsh, but I think it's pretty spot on.
It's not just a good idea to date. IMO you HAVE to date. Everyone is different, and we are often different with different people. Just the way we're built. Nothing about the powerful forces of life can be learned in the abstract. Not true love, broken hearts, real triumph, children. All have to be done first hand.
Kissing too. Consider a relationship like a marathon. Train for it.
Good luck. I believe that Stynxno has your best interest at heart btw.
posted by asavage at 1:29 PM on October 21, 2008 [2 favorites]
Really. If you like the plotting and planning, I'll give you an apt analogy: a potential carpenter doesn't wait for the perfect tool and the piece of wood to make their first piece of furniture. They start moving wood, cutting it, shaping it, learning about it. Stynxno's comment might seem harsh, but I think it's pretty spot on.
It's not just a good idea to date. IMO you HAVE to date. Everyone is different, and we are often different with different people. Just the way we're built. Nothing about the powerful forces of life can be learned in the abstract. Not true love, broken hearts, real triumph, children. All have to be done first hand.
Kissing too. Consider a relationship like a marathon. Train for it.
Good luck. I believe that Stynxno has your best interest at heart btw.
posted by asavage at 1:29 PM on October 21, 2008 [2 favorites]
spec80: I guess I'm still reading the original question as the poster (subconsciously?) looking for excuses not to date and Styxno, while being helpful, is giving the poster exactly that.
I think we should let the poor guy make some actual mistakes in some actual relationships before we tell him he's bad at it.
posted by turaho at 1:34 PM on October 21, 2008
I think we should let the poor guy make some actual mistakes in some actual relationships before we tell him he's bad at it.
posted by turaho at 1:34 PM on October 21, 2008
I also realize I've been dropping the first N in Stynxno. My apologies!
posted by turaho at 1:35 PM on October 21, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by turaho at 1:35 PM on October 21, 2008 [1 favorite]
You can date casually without having casual sex. Get on with it already.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:46 PM on October 21, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by DarlingBri at 1:46 PM on October 21, 2008 [1 favorite]
damrice is absolutely right. I'll put my advice in my own words, however.
Now, you've offered a false choice. You'll have to date around to find somebody with whom you want a relationship. I'll assume, as you didn't mention it, but sounds like you're a straight dude. Here's what you do: flirt with foxy ladies. Occasionally, have make-outs with some of them. Go on dates with some of them. Because, in the beginning, you have no idea where it will go.
Rinse and repeat if desired. You may decide you like hand-holds and make-outs. You may decide you don't. You may decide you like it (and a girl) enough that you'll want do to it all the time with the same girl over and over again. You can decide if it's worth sacrificing time and energy, but you'll probably think it is.
And, really, don't think of this as some kind of cost/benefit analysis. It's supposed to be one of the fun parts of life, not work. Just let go of yourself.
posted by General Malaise at 1:54 PM on October 21, 2008
Now, you've offered a false choice. You'll have to date around to find somebody with whom you want a relationship. I'll assume, as you didn't mention it, but sounds like you're a straight dude. Here's what you do: flirt with foxy ladies. Occasionally, have make-outs with some of them. Go on dates with some of them. Because, in the beginning, you have no idea where it will go.
Rinse and repeat if desired. You may decide you like hand-holds and make-outs. You may decide you don't. You may decide you like it (and a girl) enough that you'll want do to it all the time with the same girl over and over again. You can decide if it's worth sacrificing time and energy, but you'll probably think it is.
And, really, don't think of this as some kind of cost/benefit analysis. It's supposed to be one of the fun parts of life, not work. Just let go of yourself.
posted by General Malaise at 1:54 PM on October 21, 2008
Two more things: Greg Nog's right about "standards." Stop thinking about them. How can you tell how good a match is for you, without trying it out?
Second: Neglected to mention: Sex is freaking awesome and I suspect you'll find it's way more fun than most hobbies.
posted by General Malaise at 1:57 PM on October 21, 2008 [4 favorites]
Second: Neglected to mention: Sex is freaking awesome and I suspect you'll find it's way more fun than most hobbies.
posted by General Malaise at 1:57 PM on October 21, 2008 [4 favorites]
I have high standards, too.
Don't confuse high standards with prejudice, though! Do you already have this picture of the ideal girlfriend/partner/mate in your head?
Lose it.
You may not have dated before because no woman can meet your imaginary standards. You cross each woman off of some kind of internal list you have, without giving her a second chance. I know many happily married couples, lots of people in long sustaining relationships, and none of them say anything like, "I wanted a 5 ft tall redhead with a size 34C bust who enjoyed model railroading and skydiving, so I went out and found that person and married her." Life just doesn't work that way! There is no Cinderella to fit the glass slipper. There's great women with lots to offer, and some whose very difference to your expectations of what you think you want in a partner might be a refreshing change in your life! But you won't know if you don't give them a chance.
I also didn't date much before I met my spouse.
But I wish I had, NOT because I would have found someone better, but because I would have been a better partner as a result. The more you know about relationships, the more you relax when you are in one, stop obsessing about what SHOULD be, and just let it all happen. Took me years to get that right!
And, about balance: you don't need to give up your hobbies or lose your career for a relationship. But when you do start dating, you might find yourself putting more time into that at first. That's natural. If you find someone you really like, it will become a priority in your life to spend time with that person. But the right person will understand how important your career is to you, and your hobbies, and you'll both find a balance.
Okay, so, tips:
Don't rush things. Now that you want to start dating, don't judge people too quickly, and don't get desperate to make something happen. Chemistry, and nature, have a lot to say about the pace at which relationships develop. You just can't force it.
To be in a successful relationship, you are going to have to deal with your inclination to control every aspect of your life. One of the best things about a new relationship is not knowing what's going to happen next! You know how you are worried about a relationship taking away from your career? Your partner will have worries like that, too. It's all about give and take.
Dating around does not mean having sex with every girl you meet. Don't put any pressure on yourself to make up for lost time. That's where your high standards should come in. You're a virgin. That's not a bad thing. You can choose when and how to change that. Make a wise choice.
posted by misha at 2:29 PM on October 21, 2008 [2 favorites]
Don't confuse high standards with prejudice, though! Do you already have this picture of the ideal girlfriend/partner/mate in your head?
Lose it.
You may not have dated before because no woman can meet your imaginary standards. You cross each woman off of some kind of internal list you have, without giving her a second chance. I know many happily married couples, lots of people in long sustaining relationships, and none of them say anything like, "I wanted a 5 ft tall redhead with a size 34C bust who enjoyed model railroading and skydiving, so I went out and found that person and married her." Life just doesn't work that way! There is no Cinderella to fit the glass slipper. There's great women with lots to offer, and some whose very difference to your expectations of what you think you want in a partner might be a refreshing change in your life! But you won't know if you don't give them a chance.
I also didn't date much before I met my spouse.
But I wish I had, NOT because I would have found someone better, but because I would have been a better partner as a result. The more you know about relationships, the more you relax when you are in one, stop obsessing about what SHOULD be, and just let it all happen. Took me years to get that right!
And, about balance: you don't need to give up your hobbies or lose your career for a relationship. But when you do start dating, you might find yourself putting more time into that at first. That's natural. If you find someone you really like, it will become a priority in your life to spend time with that person. But the right person will understand how important your career is to you, and your hobbies, and you'll both find a balance.
Okay, so, tips:
Don't rush things. Now that you want to start dating, don't judge people too quickly, and don't get desperate to make something happen. Chemistry, and nature, have a lot to say about the pace at which relationships develop. You just can't force it.
To be in a successful relationship, you are going to have to deal with your inclination to control every aspect of your life. One of the best things about a new relationship is not knowing what's going to happen next! You know how you are worried about a relationship taking away from your career? Your partner will have worries like that, too. It's all about give and take.
Dating around does not mean having sex with every girl you meet. Don't put any pressure on yourself to make up for lost time. That's where your high standards should come in. You're a virgin. That's not a bad thing. You can choose when and how to change that. Make a wise choice.
posted by misha at 2:29 PM on October 21, 2008 [2 favorites]
I think Stynxno picked up on something useful, even if the conclusion about therapy might not be all that useful.
Your question has a whiff of slightly creepy guy, and I'm guessing your social skills in general need some fine tuning. You probably don't need therapy for that. You need to have more friends since you spent alot of time depressed where your social skills probably stagnated. Some of these new friends should be girls. You should learn how to talk to them. You don't really need to even date them. You just need to know how to flirt a little for starters.
And you can keep your standards high. You can be very selective about who you spend your time with while still improving your ability to relate to people in general. You can do that in or outside of relationships, but if you don't do it somehow, the first relationship you have when the right girl finally falls into your lap WILL crash and burn.
posted by slow graffiti at 4:02 PM on October 21, 2008
Your question has a whiff of slightly creepy guy, and I'm guessing your social skills in general need some fine tuning. You probably don't need therapy for that. You need to have more friends since you spent alot of time depressed where your social skills probably stagnated. Some of these new friends should be girls. You should learn how to talk to them. You don't really need to even date them. You just need to know how to flirt a little for starters.
And you can keep your standards high. You can be very selective about who you spend your time with while still improving your ability to relate to people in general. You can do that in or outside of relationships, but if you don't do it somehow, the first relationship you have when the right girl finally falls into your lap WILL crash and burn.
posted by slow graffiti at 4:02 PM on October 21, 2008
I have to say, I was deeply creeped out by the way you talked about "LD&S" and "harder-to-get girls" and "good partners." It made it sound as though you have some checklist on which "First Kiss" and "Sexual Intercourse" and "Attractive Partner" are items to be crossed off as you attain them. And that's not how it works. I don't mean this as an insult to you; I mean only to say that it's not helpful to you to think about it that way, and that people you meet, including women, will be able to tell that you think of them as means to an end, and they'll be turned off by that.
I think that you need to stop thinking about women as things to be obtained and retained. We're people, I swear! We want to have substantive interactions with people who are interesting and interested in us and in the world around them. Just like you do! Dating is not a unique activity that you have to make an up front decision whether or not to engage in. It's just hanging out with people who happen to be women, with the possibility that if the hanging out part goes well, it might be followed by a holding hands part or a kissing part or a fooling around part. So yes, I'd recommend that you hang out with women and that you leave yourself open to the possibility of holding hands, etc.
My suggestion: pursue your hobbies and your work and whatever else you enjoy in your life in such a way as to get yourself a group of good friends that includes some women. Get to know those women as friends. Get comfortable hanging out with them as people. Enjoy their company. But do whatever you need to do (I agree with the suggestion of therapy) to get over this belief you have that women are milestones in your life that you need to acquire in order to attain normalcy.
You'll find someone to have a romantic relationship with the same way you find someone to fill any other role in your life (best friend, professional mentor, scrabble partner, etc.): by going out and doing the things you enjoy doing and building relationships with people who are compatible with you in various ways, some of whom happen to be female. So that's your first step.
posted by decathecting at 4:44 PM on October 21, 2008 [3 favorites]
I think that you need to stop thinking about women as things to be obtained and retained. We're people, I swear! We want to have substantive interactions with people who are interesting and interested in us and in the world around them. Just like you do! Dating is not a unique activity that you have to make an up front decision whether or not to engage in. It's just hanging out with people who happen to be women, with the possibility that if the hanging out part goes well, it might be followed by a holding hands part or a kissing part or a fooling around part. So yes, I'd recommend that you hang out with women and that you leave yourself open to the possibility of holding hands, etc.
My suggestion: pursue your hobbies and your work and whatever else you enjoy in your life in such a way as to get yourself a group of good friends that includes some women. Get to know those women as friends. Get comfortable hanging out with them as people. Enjoy their company. But do whatever you need to do (I agree with the suggestion of therapy) to get over this belief you have that women are milestones in your life that you need to acquire in order to attain normalcy.
You'll find someone to have a romantic relationship with the same way you find someone to fill any other role in your life (best friend, professional mentor, scrabble partner, etc.): by going out and doing the things you enjoy doing and building relationships with people who are compatible with you in various ways, some of whom happen to be female. So that's your first step.
posted by decathecting at 4:44 PM on October 21, 2008 [3 favorites]
You won't worry about it so much if you start "dating around." Additionally, someone you run into along the way might turn out to be the one.
posted by MaxK at 5:04 PM on October 21, 2008
posted by MaxK at 5:04 PM on October 21, 2008
Is it better to "date around" and get experience OR is it better to have higher standards and wait for the right situations?
In case anybody hasn't mentioned this yet, these are not mutually exclusive - ie it's not normally a choice of being totally promiscuous or waiting until your wedding night with The One.
You can still "date around" whilst maintaining "standards" but to be honest, it's a bit hard to work out those standards on paper, without any experience.
Unless you're phenomenally lucky, you'll generally require at least a few failed relationships before you can work out what qualities you want in a partner, and that goes way beyond some smokin' hot CEO or lawyer or PhD or fireman or whatever. Personally, I find that those kinds of "paper" qualities mean very little compared with less tangible things like warmth, empathy, humour, curiosity & openness.
My general model for how people tend to progress in that kind of experience & discernment is that they'll have a number of shorter-term "experimental" relationships when younger, learn to weed out the dud partners before getting involved with them, then move on to fewer, but better, relationships later. There'll often be some longer-term ones when younger, too, but overall I think it's a matter of greater churn leading to increasing wisdom & discernment, leading to slower churn & "higher standards".
Your mileage may vary.
posted by UbuRoivas at 6:28 PM on October 21, 2008 [1 favorite]
In case anybody hasn't mentioned this yet, these are not mutually exclusive - ie it's not normally a choice of being totally promiscuous or waiting until your wedding night with The One.
You can still "date around" whilst maintaining "standards" but to be honest, it's a bit hard to work out those standards on paper, without any experience.
Unless you're phenomenally lucky, you'll generally require at least a few failed relationships before you can work out what qualities you want in a partner, and that goes way beyond some smokin' hot CEO or lawyer or PhD or fireman or whatever. Personally, I find that those kinds of "paper" qualities mean very little compared with less tangible things like warmth, empathy, humour, curiosity & openness.
My general model for how people tend to progress in that kind of experience & discernment is that they'll have a number of shorter-term "experimental" relationships when younger, learn to weed out the dud partners before getting involved with them, then move on to fewer, but better, relationships later. There'll often be some longer-term ones when younger, too, but overall I think it's a matter of greater churn leading to increasing wisdom & discernment, leading to slower churn & "higher standards".
Your mileage may vary.
posted by UbuRoivas at 6:28 PM on October 21, 2008 [1 favorite]
What I'm reading from your question is that you're not interested in the work involved with pursuing dating or serious relationships. So don't pursue them. There's nothing wrong with that. Focus on your career, making friends, having fun, whatever. Don't pursue love for lame reasons like not wanting your "dating street smarts" to get rusty. Honestly, not everybody needs those- I know people without a lick of street smarts, dating or otherwise, who have found and married their perfect soulmates. Found them how? I don't know. They just went on living their weird, kooky lives and fell together somehow, I guess. It can happen.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:18 PM on October 21, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:18 PM on October 21, 2008 [2 favorites]
Our capacity to love is our willingness to risk breaking hearts, or have our hearts broken.
We can never experience the former unless we risk the latter. Our readiness and desire to embrace the complex, messy and contradictory reality of human nature stands in direct proportion to our ability to conduct relationships of any kind: casual or long term; passion or friendship. We can not force them to run in a narrow straits nor sit passively by while we wait for them to roll right up to us. There will never be an easy either/or choice just the what ifs, the maybes and the here, now. How we learn to deal with all this, what we make of the situations we find ourselves in, is the work of it, and though there are lessons others can teach us we only ever really learn through direct experience.
Sometimes the only thing to do is to hold your nose and dive right into the world.
posted by tallus at 5:25 AM on October 22, 2008 [3 favorites]
We can never experience the former unless we risk the latter. Our readiness and desire to embrace the complex, messy and contradictory reality of human nature stands in direct proportion to our ability to conduct relationships of any kind: casual or long term; passion or friendship. We can not force them to run in a narrow straits nor sit passively by while we wait for them to roll right up to us. There will never be an easy either/or choice just the what ifs, the maybes and the here, now. How we learn to deal with all this, what we make of the situations we find ourselves in, is the work of it, and though there are lessons others can teach us we only ever really learn through direct experience.
Sometimes the only thing to do is to hold your nose and dive right into the world.
posted by tallus at 5:25 AM on October 22, 2008 [3 favorites]
It is better to date and see what happens. If you meet an awesome person straight away, good job, you've won. If not, try again. Going on a date isn't an obligation to marry a person. It's not even an obligation to hold their hand.
posted by chunking express at 7:15 AM on October 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by chunking express at 7:15 AM on October 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
Lot of good advice here.
I want to add one thing:
I think long-term and see LD&S taking a back seat [...] behind hobbies and interests I've never had a chance to pursue before.
That's totally wrong. It's totally backward. I most fun I ever had was when I was sharing a hobby with my significant other. I've hiked up hundreds of mountains with one fantastic girl. Kathryn taught me how to brew beer and how to knit. We learned how to dance swing together. A few years afterward, I made dozens of chocolate truffles with another wonderful girl while we played Go everyday. I no other time in my life I've had the chance to play so much Go, with such an intensity, in such pleasant company, as when I was going out with Mélanie.
There are no better way to pick up new hobbies than to become interested in your SO's hobbies.
posted by gmarceau at 9:08 PM on October 22, 2008 [2 favorites]
I want to add one thing:
I think long-term and see LD&S taking a back seat [...] behind hobbies and interests I've never had a chance to pursue before.
That's totally wrong. It's totally backward. I most fun I ever had was when I was sharing a hobby with my significant other. I've hiked up hundreds of mountains with one fantastic girl. Kathryn taught me how to brew beer and how to knit. We learned how to dance swing together. A few years afterward, I made dozens of chocolate truffles with another wonderful girl while we played Go everyday. I no other time in my life I've had the chance to play so much Go, with such an intensity, in such pleasant company, as when I was going out with Mélanie.
There are no better way to pick up new hobbies than to become interested in your SO's hobbies.
posted by gmarceau at 9:08 PM on October 22, 2008 [2 favorites]
How, exactly, does dating around hurt if done properly?
All I can see is benefits: getting to know the oppositte sex, having fun, refining social scenes, maybe even getting a first kiss. As long as you are honest and don't let things get too serious, and practice safe sex, it's all biscuits and gravy.
That said, having high standards is just a obstacle to hide behind. Just because people date around - assuming little or no sex - doesn't mean they don't have high standards at all. It's just dating.
posted by scottschulthess at 7:51 AM on October 24, 2008
All I can see is benefits: getting to know the oppositte sex, having fun, refining social scenes, maybe even getting a first kiss. As long as you are honest and don't let things get too serious, and practice safe sex, it's all biscuits and gravy.
That said, having high standards is just a obstacle to hide behind. Just because people date around - assuming little or no sex - doesn't mean they don't have high standards at all. It's just dating.
posted by scottschulthess at 7:51 AM on October 24, 2008
My experience is really similar to yours. I did have some experience though, however it was never deep or long enough to be of any consistency. Of course what should come off as something natural up until you're twenty, with time it just makes you feel insecure about even considering going any further in relationships. I, too, feel surprisingly ok with the whole situation, but it might also be because I don't think too much about it - like you said, I'd rather focus on making other aspects of my life work, as I've waisted many opportunities in the past.
I've thought about lowering standards, and start occasionally dating (although where i live there isn't anything like formally dating). The problem is, from my experience, is that I will never feel completely comfortable in those situations, as I'm constantly thinking I'm leading people on, making them think I'm either more experienced and taking the situation more lightly than I actually am (I might think and act like I'm taking it lightly, but it's always more of an overwhelming experience for me than it is for the other person), or I've lowered my standards and I don't feel comfortable in engaging in a relationship with the person, thus I'm never completely commiting and end up driving myself and the other person away.
Which, in the end, is a vicious cycle. I don't want anything serious, I don't even find anything serious, but I don't feel comfortable in those situations which aren't serious and am in constant fear of leading the other person on in any way. So, in the end, either I find a knight in shining armour and fall head over heels in love, which seems quite surreal for me as I am way too rational and paranoid, or I lie my way through and feel disgusted with the whole situation.
Okay, this wasn't helpful at all. But your question really made sense to me, almost like I was the one writing it. Unfortunately none of the other comments seem to answer any of my questions, but from what I read here and my personal experience I guess we just have to keep trying different things until we find a person that doesn't make all this seem way too complicated. And just go from there.
posted by gulliblemosquito at 8:38 AM on October 26, 2008
I've thought about lowering standards, and start occasionally dating (although where i live there isn't anything like formally dating). The problem is, from my experience, is that I will never feel completely comfortable in those situations, as I'm constantly thinking I'm leading people on, making them think I'm either more experienced and taking the situation more lightly than I actually am (I might think and act like I'm taking it lightly, but it's always more of an overwhelming experience for me than it is for the other person), or I've lowered my standards and I don't feel comfortable in engaging in a relationship with the person, thus I'm never completely commiting and end up driving myself and the other person away.
Which, in the end, is a vicious cycle. I don't want anything serious, I don't even find anything serious, but I don't feel comfortable in those situations which aren't serious and am in constant fear of leading the other person on in any way. So, in the end, either I find a knight in shining armour and fall head over heels in love, which seems quite surreal for me as I am way too rational and paranoid, or I lie my way through and feel disgusted with the whole situation.
Okay, this wasn't helpful at all. But your question really made sense to me, almost like I was the one writing it. Unfortunately none of the other comments seem to answer any of my questions, but from what I read here and my personal experience I guess we just have to keep trying different things until we find a person that doesn't make all this seem way too complicated. And just go from there.
posted by gulliblemosquito at 8:38 AM on October 26, 2008
I share almost the same exact position as gulliblemosquito -- in one way you're setting your standards too high, yet on the other hand you don't want to put yourself in a position that you don't feel comfortable in, to "settle" for someone.
My advice is to be open to dating and not to see dating as a commitment in itself, but rather a way to test the waters. You never know if the person you think doesn't meet your standards actually ends up being your ideal partner because you lack a good understanding of her. Just make sure you date people who know you're just testing the waters and make clear to them that the act of dating isn't a commitment to that person but rather just an indicator of interest to them. Look for people with that mentality who aren't prone to attach themselves to you easily (and as a result, get their heart broken if things don't work out).
Also, a side tip from my experiences, hide your lack of dating experience to people, as someone mentioned earlier in this thread, if you're in your late 20s without any dating experience, it will likely be a turn-off, even if you're a great person.
I think people are psychoanalyzing this guy's post a little too much. Best of luck to you and I hope things work out ok.
posted by NeoLeo at 9:15 AM on October 28, 2008
My advice is to be open to dating and not to see dating as a commitment in itself, but rather a way to test the waters. You never know if the person you think doesn't meet your standards actually ends up being your ideal partner because you lack a good understanding of her. Just make sure you date people who know you're just testing the waters and make clear to them that the act of dating isn't a commitment to that person but rather just an indicator of interest to them. Look for people with that mentality who aren't prone to attach themselves to you easily (and as a result, get their heart broken if things don't work out).
Also, a side tip from my experiences, hide your lack of dating experience to people, as someone mentioned earlier in this thread, if you're in your late 20s without any dating experience, it will likely be a turn-off, even if you're a great person.
I think people are psychoanalyzing this guy's post a little too much. Best of luck to you and I hope things work out ok.
posted by NeoLeo at 9:15 AM on October 28, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
And, as far as standards go, that could mean "people that don't yell at me" or "people that are super smokin' hot" - so it is hard to answer your question, but that's why it is important to go back to the first point.
posted by k8t at 12:24 PM on October 21, 2008