What the hell is Seligman talking about?
October 19, 2008 8:30 AM Subscribe
How do I reframe my memories of severe childhood abuse?
I'm in therapy dealing with PSTD. I started reading Authentic Happiness a few days ago. I had to put the book down after the portion where Seligman says that in order to get over one's past, one needs to reframe memories of negative events into more positive ones as a way of accepting them and moving on. He doesn't specify when it's not applicable, so I'm assuming he means for my situation as well.
I'm livid, both because he's probably right and I'm resisting (and angry at myself for resisting, because I'm well aware that my self-concept is rooted in victimhood), and because I don't understand how this is possible for certain negative events. I don't know how to reframe the memories of being assaulted by "step-father", "step-father's" brother, and cousin. Or lying in bed at night as a kid, awake and alert with terror because I was waiting for "Mom" to come in and beat me with an extension cord. Some nights I'd finally drop off at 4am and she hadn't touched me. Some nights she'd force me out of bed and make me get wet in the shower first before whipping me. I won't go on, but there was a lot of abusive behavior and bald statements of the "My life would be better if you weren't here" variety - that is until I left home and then it became, "Please come back." "No, really, please come back." "You better get back here, you selfish so-and-so, right now!" No worries, I moved away and haven't spoken to any of those people for at least 8 years, but the many repercussions of having them and the horrible memories still in my headspace is why I'm in therapy and why I wanted to read the book.
I'm not dead. This is the only positive I can take from those situations right now. If someone in the hive who's read this book and feels they've successfully applied the precepts can give me some direction, I'd be grateful. Also, I'll be grateful for any suggestions on how I can better help my therapist to help me or any methods used to actually and emotionally accept that abuse happened and put those memories behind me.
I'm in therapy dealing with PSTD. I started reading Authentic Happiness a few days ago. I had to put the book down after the portion where Seligman says that in order to get over one's past, one needs to reframe memories of negative events into more positive ones as a way of accepting them and moving on. He doesn't specify when it's not applicable, so I'm assuming he means for my situation as well.
I'm livid, both because he's probably right and I'm resisting (and angry at myself for resisting, because I'm well aware that my self-concept is rooted in victimhood), and because I don't understand how this is possible for certain negative events. I don't know how to reframe the memories of being assaulted by "step-father", "step-father's" brother, and cousin. Or lying in bed at night as a kid, awake and alert with terror because I was waiting for "Mom" to come in and beat me with an extension cord. Some nights I'd finally drop off at 4am and she hadn't touched me. Some nights she'd force me out of bed and make me get wet in the shower first before whipping me. I won't go on, but there was a lot of abusive behavior and bald statements of the "My life would be better if you weren't here" variety - that is until I left home and then it became, "Please come back." "No, really, please come back." "You better get back here, you selfish so-and-so, right now!" No worries, I moved away and haven't spoken to any of those people for at least 8 years, but the many repercussions of having them and the horrible memories still in my headspace is why I'm in therapy and why I wanted to read the book.
I'm not dead. This is the only positive I can take from those situations right now. If someone in the hive who's read this book and feels they've successfully applied the precepts can give me some direction, I'd be grateful. Also, I'll be grateful for any suggestions on how I can better help my therapist to help me or any methods used to actually and emotionally accept that abuse happened and put those memories behind me.
*Phew*. I haven't read that particular book, but I've heard about it.
Some of the ones I have read:
Victor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning - not much on practical things you can do, but ways to think about awful things.
The Anger Diet - Gimmicky title, and some of the "days" are a stretch of the concept of anger, but it does have useful and practical things to actually do.
I've only read a few essays and one book by Alice Miller. She concentrates mostly on spanking and the denial of a child's pain into adulthood. There might be some useful framing in there.
And even though it's all I can say, I'm sorry you had to go through that. Good luck!
ps - a freind of mine who had experiences more like yours sent this along:
I don't know about the book itself. I do know about this talk - Martin Seligman on the state of psychology.
Basically his talk is on how psychology should try to focus more on what makes people strong and less on looking at their flaws.
posted by lysdexic at 9:09 AM on October 19, 2008
Some of the ones I have read:
Victor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning - not much on practical things you can do, but ways to think about awful things.
The Anger Diet - Gimmicky title, and some of the "days" are a stretch of the concept of anger, but it does have useful and practical things to actually do.
I've only read a few essays and one book by Alice Miller. She concentrates mostly on spanking and the denial of a child's pain into adulthood. There might be some useful framing in there.
And even though it's all I can say, I'm sorry you had to go through that. Good luck!
ps - a freind of mine who had experiences more like yours sent this along:
I don't know about the book itself. I do know about this talk - Martin Seligman on the state of psychology.
Basically his talk is on how psychology should try to focus more on what makes people strong and less on looking at their flaws.
posted by lysdexic at 9:09 AM on October 19, 2008
It gets everyone differently. Personally, I prefer to think of my childhood as a lesson in how not to be a fucking arsehole as an adult.
If you need to reframe, I'd concentrate on resilience, independence, and the fact that you've managed to come through all that as a functioning adult.
There's no need to try and put a positive spin on the actual events, because, frankly, there isn't one. The positive is found in what you become in spite of your upbringing.
posted by mandal at 9:39 AM on October 19, 2008
If you need to reframe, I'd concentrate on resilience, independence, and the fact that you've managed to come through all that as a functioning adult.
There's no need to try and put a positive spin on the actual events, because, frankly, there isn't one. The positive is found in what you become in spite of your upbringing.
posted by mandal at 9:39 AM on October 19, 2008
i haven't read the book. it seems to be suggesting something i figured out for myself a few years ago.
i got sick of losing myself in a shit spiral when i started thinking about the abuse i suffered at the hand of my brother. i was sick of having a bad dream that ruined my week. i was sick of giving him power over my brain still.
here's what i did...if i thought of something awful he did or said, i would immediately try to think of something positive - but not like "i thought about my brother teaching me to give a blowjob, then i thought about a rainbow and everything is great now!", but more like - i thought about the blowjob, then i remembered that i loved the lamp in that room, and the way i had 2 doors and a hardwood floor. that room was my salvation. even in all the bullshit i was able to find peace when i was alone in there. every negative thought that didn't seem like it was trying to help me further understand or come to terms with my past, i would follow with something from the same time or space so i can refocus my energies on the things that bring me strength.
do i still hate my brother? yes. do i still consider myself damaged from his evil actions? of course. do i allow that be an excuse to not find happiness? hell no. he took my childhood, i'll be damned if i give him my adulthood too.
posted by nadawi at 9:51 AM on October 19, 2008 [8 favorites]
i got sick of losing myself in a shit spiral when i started thinking about the abuse i suffered at the hand of my brother. i was sick of having a bad dream that ruined my week. i was sick of giving him power over my brain still.
here's what i did...if i thought of something awful he did or said, i would immediately try to think of something positive - but not like "i thought about my brother teaching me to give a blowjob, then i thought about a rainbow and everything is great now!", but more like - i thought about the blowjob, then i remembered that i loved the lamp in that room, and the way i had 2 doors and a hardwood floor. that room was my salvation. even in all the bullshit i was able to find peace when i was alone in there. every negative thought that didn't seem like it was trying to help me further understand or come to terms with my past, i would follow with something from the same time or space so i can refocus my energies on the things that bring me strength.
do i still hate my brother? yes. do i still consider myself damaged from his evil actions? of course. do i allow that be an excuse to not find happiness? hell no. he took my childhood, i'll be damned if i give him my adulthood too.
posted by nadawi at 9:51 AM on October 19, 2008 [8 favorites]
Seligman's the same guy who tortured dogs with electricity to come up with his theory of "learned helplessness" and claimed it provided insight into depression in humans. Needless to say, I don't hold him in high regard.
As someone who grew up with a psychologically abusive mother and waves of bullies in my youth, I'm probably still affected a little bit, years later, by what happened. I don't think there's any great answer, especially not from preachy, arrogant psychologists.
The only remedy I've found is the passage of time: slowly forgetting about the incidents. "Time heals all wounds" is cliche, but the brain does seem to have a protective mechanism (even if accidental) of naturally allowing memories to fade.
posted by wastelands at 11:37 AM on October 19, 2008 [3 favorites]
As someone who grew up with a psychologically abusive mother and waves of bullies in my youth, I'm probably still affected a little bit, years later, by what happened. I don't think there's any great answer, especially not from preachy, arrogant psychologists.
The only remedy I've found is the passage of time: slowly forgetting about the incidents. "Time heals all wounds" is cliche, but the brain does seem to have a protective mechanism (even if accidental) of naturally allowing memories to fade.
posted by wastelands at 11:37 AM on October 19, 2008 [3 favorites]
I've found that part of emotionally accepting abuse/difficulties in the past involves realizing that no one will ever, ever, EVER, fully understand what you have gone through, and that most people you meet will not even TRY to. A lot of the pain that comes with a hurtful past is getting angry at others for not attempting to understand you at all or by not giving you any chances in life. This is absolute bullshit, but unfortunately it is reality. No one will think "maybe this person had a tough life" when they notice that you might have bad grades or an unimpressive resume; they will probably think "NEXT!" No one will think "maybe this person needs help and support in their life" when they first meet you; they will probably move on to more "social" people with "no problems".
What that means for you is that you can't turn to other people and expect help. With that expectation, you will only set yourself up for disappointment and further pain. Thus, when you meet someone new, oftentimes you cannot and should not tell them or signal to them early on in the relationship that you come from a rough background. Most of the time, this will make them feel uncomfortable and create distance. You may feel that doing so would not be giving a "true reflection" of who you are. However, by feeling that way, you are locking yourself into your own mentality, a certain negative frame of mind, which you are EXACTLY trying to GET OUT OF. It perpetuates the belief in yourself that you are a victim. What you SHOULD be believing is that the past is not a true reflection of what and who you are. You are truly NOT that person in the past screaming and yearning for help -- you merely never had the opportunity to do otherwise. It is only PART of what you are and is not WHAT DEFINES YOU. Thus, when you meet someone and not mention your difficult past, you are in fact not hiding who you really are. You are merely not talking about your past.
Learn who you are, learn what your strengths are. Chances are, you haven't had much opportunities to do so due to your past and your low spirits. Spend time doing things you were always interested in. It will give you confidence in discovering more about yourself. You will learn what you love, what you like, what you dislike, what you hate. Put yourself in uncomfortable positions as well as some comfortable positions you haven't experienced before. You might fall on your ass a couple times doing so, but it will pale in comparison to your past troubles and will probably build you up. People will love to hear about your experiences or opinions on travels, doing certain hobbies, etc. You will love yourself for having enriching experiences in life and for having less regrets. Deep down inside yourself, build a sense of self-worth.
Look for ways to reveal your inner potential, and also look for things that are holding you back from it. Unfortunately, this may include existing relationships you have. Some friends or acquaintances might already have it made up in their minds that you're a sensitive/depressed/scarred/(insert negative adjective here) person and might actually be perpetuating the negative frame of mind you have. Getting away from your family was a good step. Getting away from other people might be another. However, I do not recommend burning bridges with anyone. It would be good to check whether your friends or acquaintances will encourage you to pursue who you really are. For the people who don't and are inflexible, don't severe relations (this may come back and haunt you) -- rather, they will naturally drift apart from you when they may get confused/disappointed about not really knowing you really are. However as you change, they may change as well, which is why it is good to keep the door open.
It's also important to stay positive. Of course, this is one of those pain-in-the-fucking-ass, "easy-to-say, hard-to-do" things, but you can build that mentality with enough effort. Your optimism will drop at times and you may feel like giving up, but you HAVE to go that direction. I believe that this is VERY IMPORTANT. Because without a positive mentality, change is NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE. With a negative outlook on yourself and life, you're only going to trap yourself from change. Essentially, you would resign yourself from discovering who you are without even trying. KEEP TRYING. STAY POSITIVE. YOU CAN GET THERE.
Ultimately, you have to understand that this is something that only YOU can resolve because ONLY YOU know who YOU really are. It will be good to get advice from your therapist, from people here, from books, etc. But there are no easy magical solutions out there. You're your own person. The solution is YOURS and in the end, will only be part of YOUR life story.
Seriously, FIGHT THE FUCKING FIGHT THAT LIFE IS AND KICK SOME ASS. It's no use moping around. There are many people who have gone through shitty pasts and have come out of life happy. They are rooting for you. You can be one of those people too.
posted by NeoLeo at 11:44 AM on October 19, 2008 [5 favorites]
What that means for you is that you can't turn to other people and expect help. With that expectation, you will only set yourself up for disappointment and further pain. Thus, when you meet someone new, oftentimes you cannot and should not tell them or signal to them early on in the relationship that you come from a rough background. Most of the time, this will make them feel uncomfortable and create distance. You may feel that doing so would not be giving a "true reflection" of who you are. However, by feeling that way, you are locking yourself into your own mentality, a certain negative frame of mind, which you are EXACTLY trying to GET OUT OF. It perpetuates the belief in yourself that you are a victim. What you SHOULD be believing is that the past is not a true reflection of what and who you are. You are truly NOT that person in the past screaming and yearning for help -- you merely never had the opportunity to do otherwise. It is only PART of what you are and is not WHAT DEFINES YOU. Thus, when you meet someone and not mention your difficult past, you are in fact not hiding who you really are. You are merely not talking about your past.
Learn who you are, learn what your strengths are. Chances are, you haven't had much opportunities to do so due to your past and your low spirits. Spend time doing things you were always interested in. It will give you confidence in discovering more about yourself. You will learn what you love, what you like, what you dislike, what you hate. Put yourself in uncomfortable positions as well as some comfortable positions you haven't experienced before. You might fall on your ass a couple times doing so, but it will pale in comparison to your past troubles and will probably build you up. People will love to hear about your experiences or opinions on travels, doing certain hobbies, etc. You will love yourself for having enriching experiences in life and for having less regrets. Deep down inside yourself, build a sense of self-worth.
Look for ways to reveal your inner potential, and also look for things that are holding you back from it. Unfortunately, this may include existing relationships you have. Some friends or acquaintances might already have it made up in their minds that you're a sensitive/depressed/scarred/(insert negative adjective here) person and might actually be perpetuating the negative frame of mind you have. Getting away from your family was a good step. Getting away from other people might be another. However, I do not recommend burning bridges with anyone. It would be good to check whether your friends or acquaintances will encourage you to pursue who you really are. For the people who don't and are inflexible, don't severe relations (this may come back and haunt you) -- rather, they will naturally drift apart from you when they may get confused/disappointed about not really knowing you really are. However as you change, they may change as well, which is why it is good to keep the door open.
It's also important to stay positive. Of course, this is one of those pain-in-the-fucking-ass, "easy-to-say, hard-to-do" things, but you can build that mentality with enough effort. Your optimism will drop at times and you may feel like giving up, but you HAVE to go that direction. I believe that this is VERY IMPORTANT. Because without a positive mentality, change is NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE. With a negative outlook on yourself and life, you're only going to trap yourself from change. Essentially, you would resign yourself from discovering who you are without even trying. KEEP TRYING. STAY POSITIVE. YOU CAN GET THERE.
Ultimately, you have to understand that this is something that only YOU can resolve because ONLY YOU know who YOU really are. It will be good to get advice from your therapist, from people here, from books, etc. But there are no easy magical solutions out there. You're your own person. The solution is YOURS and in the end, will only be part of YOUR life story.
Seriously, FIGHT THE FUCKING FIGHT THAT LIFE IS AND KICK SOME ASS. It's no use moping around. There are many people who have gone through shitty pasts and have come out of life happy. They are rooting for you. You can be one of those people too.
posted by NeoLeo at 11:44 AM on October 19, 2008 [5 favorites]
Also to add, about the positive mentality, looking into something called 'affirmations'. It seems really clumsy and gimmicky but if your mind is suited for it, it can help build a positive image of yourself in your subconscious. Your subconscious mind is what builds what you perceive to be the reality of the world. Thus, it's pretty darn good to change it if possible, especially if it is having a negative affect on you.
Some books I looked into (but haven't read) that you might want to give a read:
- Adult Children of Abusive Parents: A Healing Program for Those Who Have Been Physically, Sexually, or Emotionally Abused
- Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life
- An Adult Child's Guide to What's 'Normal'
- Reclaiming Your Life: A Step-by-Step Guide to Using Regression Therapy to Overcome the Effects of Childhood Abuse
- The Survivor Personality
- The Resilient Self: How Survivors of Troubled Families Rise Above Adversity
Best of luck.
Learn to perceive yourself as a mature adult and not some victim. You're better than that -- and deep inside, you KNOW it.
posted by NeoLeo at 11:55 AM on October 19, 2008 [2 favorites]
Some books I looked into (but haven't read) that you might want to give a read:
- Adult Children of Abusive Parents: A Healing Program for Those Who Have Been Physically, Sexually, or Emotionally Abused
- Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life
- An Adult Child's Guide to What's 'Normal'
- Reclaiming Your Life: A Step-by-Step Guide to Using Regression Therapy to Overcome the Effects of Childhood Abuse
- The Survivor Personality
- The Resilient Self: How Survivors of Troubled Families Rise Above Adversity
Best of luck.
Learn to perceive yourself as a mature adult and not some victim. You're better than that -- and deep inside, you KNOW it.
posted by NeoLeo at 11:55 AM on October 19, 2008 [2 favorites]
Dealing with exactly what you are. Feel free to meta mail me and perhaps I can be more of help. What I have found crucial in all of this - mish mash, haywire, not understanding, being overwhelmed, flooded, triggered, emotionally disregulated and trying to find some real answers - is to get to the basic root of everything. I mean taking it down. Reducing it to the embryonic stage and before that to conception. And since I'm a believer in reincarnation - to a previous life as well. And after all the reduction - I get One. And that One is comprised of 3 - Creator and 2 co-creators - mother and father and those three = me - One. And we're all in this together - in this crazy, insane drama trauma, and how do I uncover me when I have 2 co-creators that were flawed and tried their darndest to make me forget who I am?
And so - the process of unravelling of the falseness, lies, deceit, shadows begins. And in that there are roots too. And to understand how all this works - I have found patterns and equations that ring true in self and in nature - it has been checked - so I know it as truth. And in truth there is always comfort. Truth doesn't hurt. Truth is like a balm of healing. And so in nature there is only truth - and there many answers can be found in reflection, inflection, sounds and silence. And this helps finding center. Once center is felt, it can become a habit and a place to return to time after time. It is the beginning of letting go of old and reprogramming new memories. This is key.
And the dysfunctional parenting received is viewed as - they laid down the ground for my learning of whatever it was that I need to be learning in this life and somehow a lot of it got carried over from a previous life (for not being healed then) and it's something that there are new quick fixes, cures or remedies for - but only experiencing, living and forging a new path Home - to self - and that is only something the survivor can do on her own. But there are helpers. And guides. And you are never alone, though it might feel like that many times.
Key: never ever lose hope. Because hope is the drive - the force - the energy to lead you on the Path of Self. It will provide the light, warmth and sustenance to keep you going.
posted by watercarrier at 12:10 PM on October 19, 2008
And so - the process of unravelling of the falseness, lies, deceit, shadows begins. And in that there are roots too. And to understand how all this works - I have found patterns and equations that ring true in self and in nature - it has been checked - so I know it as truth. And in truth there is always comfort. Truth doesn't hurt. Truth is like a balm of healing. And so in nature there is only truth - and there many answers can be found in reflection, inflection, sounds and silence. And this helps finding center. Once center is felt, it can become a habit and a place to return to time after time. It is the beginning of letting go of old and reprogramming new memories. This is key.
And the dysfunctional parenting received is viewed as - they laid down the ground for my learning of whatever it was that I need to be learning in this life and somehow a lot of it got carried over from a previous life (for not being healed then) and it's something that there are new quick fixes, cures or remedies for - but only experiencing, living and forging a new path Home - to self - and that is only something the survivor can do on her own. But there are helpers. And guides. And you are never alone, though it might feel like that many times.
Key: never ever lose hope. Because hope is the drive - the force - the energy to lead you on the Path of Self. It will provide the light, warmth and sustenance to keep you going.
posted by watercarrier at 12:10 PM on October 19, 2008
I don't think it's really possible (or productive) to try to focus on the "upside" of being severely abused. It's likely a person in an abusive situation like that has already been trying to put a happy face on it for themselves and others for years just to survive (and I mean that in the most basic sense -- trying to be pleasing and passive and happy at home so as not to incur a parent's wrath, trying to be a "good person" in public so as to escape the shame of what is done to you at home).
But I do think it's possible to shift your thinking in subtle yet crucial ways that can make a difference in how you feel about your past and how you live in the present. Reframing may be one way to do that.
For me, I had an epiphany when I heard someone speaking kindly about taking responsibility for where you are, but not judging yourself for how you got there. It sounds obvious and maybe stupid, but it was world-opening for me.
I had been taking responsibility, all right, but my idea of responsibility involved shame, punishment, and judgment. Responsibility (for me) wasn't just me saying "this happened to me," but me saying "this happened to me . . . because I am a horrible person." Realizing that I didn't have to complete that sentence -- that I could just say "this happened to me" and stop there -- made me realize that completing the sentence was a way, in fact, for me to keep holding on to the shame and punishment and judgment I had been made to feel at a time in my life when I didn't have a choice in the matter. And that my completing the sentence was in effect my continuing the very cycle I was trying to stop.
It made me realize I had a choice. And the great thing about allowing myself to exercise that choice -- to jettison that chunk of self-hating judgment, to not have the "you suck" shame corollary to every thought -- was realizing that even in those moments when I recognized myself starting to "go there," I had the option to stop and not even have to beat myself up for having gone there. (It also made me realize that if things didn't happen because I'm a horrible person, they also wouldn't not happen if I was awesome -- thereby giving a kick in the pants to the fraud complex, that "waiting for the other shoe to drop" opposite side of the suck coin that tells you nothing good ever lasts and it's only a matter of time until someone discovers the awful truth.)
It is likely that I had heard this piece of advice before in my life, but I probably wasn't ready to truly "get it." (Especially not the "without judgment" part. I always heard "responsibility" as "blame," as taking ownership of something that was my fault.) I don't think I could have made the connection if I hadn't spent time processing and ruminating and dwelling and working through things and being sad and angry and everything else. So that part was important work, too. Hearing that message about simply taking responsibility without judgment was like a nudge from a friend so I could move over and make room for something else. Like after jiggling the key in the lock for years I suddenly realized I just needed to turn my hand, as the door was already open.
Anyway, I guess this is a long way of saying that "thinking positive" may be well-intentioned advice, but it's more superficial than helpful.
posted by mothershock at 12:21 PM on October 19, 2008 [5 favorites]
But I do think it's possible to shift your thinking in subtle yet crucial ways that can make a difference in how you feel about your past and how you live in the present. Reframing may be one way to do that.
For me, I had an epiphany when I heard someone speaking kindly about taking responsibility for where you are, but not judging yourself for how you got there. It sounds obvious and maybe stupid, but it was world-opening for me.
I had been taking responsibility, all right, but my idea of responsibility involved shame, punishment, and judgment. Responsibility (for me) wasn't just me saying "this happened to me," but me saying "this happened to me . . . because I am a horrible person." Realizing that I didn't have to complete that sentence -- that I could just say "this happened to me" and stop there -- made me realize that completing the sentence was a way, in fact, for me to keep holding on to the shame and punishment and judgment I had been made to feel at a time in my life when I didn't have a choice in the matter. And that my completing the sentence was in effect my continuing the very cycle I was trying to stop.
It made me realize I had a choice. And the great thing about allowing myself to exercise that choice -- to jettison that chunk of self-hating judgment, to not have the "you suck" shame corollary to every thought -- was realizing that even in those moments when I recognized myself starting to "go there," I had the option to stop and not even have to beat myself up for having gone there. (It also made me realize that if things didn't happen because I'm a horrible person, they also wouldn't not happen if I was awesome -- thereby giving a kick in the pants to the fraud complex, that "waiting for the other shoe to drop" opposite side of the suck coin that tells you nothing good ever lasts and it's only a matter of time until someone discovers the awful truth.)
It is likely that I had heard this piece of advice before in my life, but I probably wasn't ready to truly "get it." (Especially not the "without judgment" part. I always heard "responsibility" as "blame," as taking ownership of something that was my fault.) I don't think I could have made the connection if I hadn't spent time processing and ruminating and dwelling and working through things and being sad and angry and everything else. So that part was important work, too. Hearing that message about simply taking responsibility without judgment was like a nudge from a friend so I could move over and make room for something else. Like after jiggling the key in the lock for years I suddenly realized I just needed to turn my hand, as the door was already open.
Anyway, I guess this is a long way of saying that "thinking positive" may be well-intentioned advice, but it's more superficial than helpful.
posted by mothershock at 12:21 PM on October 19, 2008 [5 favorites]
I dimly remember reading "Authentic Happiness." I don't know what the author intends by the "reframing" comment, so obviously it didn't inspire any big change in me.
You're pissed, and rightly so. Anger and grief are energy, and it's great to have so much energy. You have a powerful resource that people from more sheltered backgrounds lack. The trick is to turn that energy outward (change your life and maybe the world) rather than inward (get depressed and self-destructive).
Another thing that worked for me was to shift my focus to the present and future. This meant avoiding the "adult child of whatever" books and finding a therapist who didn't want to drag me through everything all over again. For me, cognitive behavioral therapy was most useful. It challenged the "I deserved it" belief that was screwing up my adult life, and it did it by focusing on what was happening in my present, which is the only thing you can change.
Good luck.
posted by PatoPata at 12:46 PM on October 19, 2008
You're pissed, and rightly so. Anger and grief are energy, and it's great to have so much energy. You have a powerful resource that people from more sheltered backgrounds lack. The trick is to turn that energy outward (change your life and maybe the world) rather than inward (get depressed and self-destructive).
Another thing that worked for me was to shift my focus to the present and future. This meant avoiding the "adult child of whatever" books and finding a therapist who didn't want to drag me through everything all over again. For me, cognitive behavioral therapy was most useful. It challenged the "I deserved it" belief that was screwing up my adult life, and it did it by focusing on what was happening in my present, which is the only thing you can change.
Good luck.
posted by PatoPata at 12:46 PM on October 19, 2008
Making Seligman your guide is certainly an interesting choice for someone with a background like yours.
In addition to the experiments with dogs mentioned by wastelands, Seligman has gotten a bit of attention lately because a 'reverse engineering' of his work with learned helplessness seems to have formed part of the theoretical basis for the abusive interrogations by the CIA of terror suspects such as Abu Zubaydah and other detainees in the American War on Terror.
Jane Mayer, author of The Dark Side, has raised questions of whether Seligman could have had a more direct role in the development of these programs of torture, and you can see what she had to say, along with a written response from him, in a transcript of Democracy Now.
posted by jamjam at 12:51 PM on October 19, 2008 [2 favorites]
In addition to the experiments with dogs mentioned by wastelands, Seligman has gotten a bit of attention lately because a 'reverse engineering' of his work with learned helplessness seems to have formed part of the theoretical basis for the abusive interrogations by the CIA of terror suspects such as Abu Zubaydah and other detainees in the American War on Terror.
Jane Mayer, author of The Dark Side, has raised questions of whether Seligman could have had a more direct role in the development of these programs of torture, and you can see what she had to say, along with a written response from him, in a transcript of Democracy Now.
posted by jamjam at 12:51 PM on October 19, 2008 [2 favorites]
When I was abused at 8, my mother was part of the problem. I've gotten some benefit from imagining myself as the caring adult who needs to help the child that I was. I picture myself interacting with that kid the way she deserved to be treated. It feels very sad, but also very positive.
posted by wryly at 2:08 PM on October 19, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by wryly at 2:08 PM on October 19, 2008 [2 favorites]
Stop reading that book! Take it to your next session; talk with your therapist about your reactions.
posted by Carol Anne at 2:15 PM on October 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Carol Anne at 2:15 PM on October 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
First of all -- my thoughts go with you.
I've not read the book -- but it sounds from what little you've said is that the author is just trying to say something in a VERY clumsy way. I don't think -- at least I hope -- that he's not saying to "reframe" the incidents as if everything was nice and happy and okay - but to recognize where you blame YOURSELF for those incidents, and re-think THAT aspect of them.
In other words -- and I'm going to take a mundane example from my own life -- I could think about the time my brother beat hell out of me with some judo moves and think, "well, i must have been a screwup that I couldn't fight back." Or, I could think about that incident and think, "Jesus, my brother was an asshole to pull judo moves on me when I was just a little kid!" But the first way leaves me feeling like a failure, and the second way makes me want to kick the crap out of my brother. The author is suggesting to find your way to a third way of thinking about it -- "you know, my brother was also just a kid and he was just really really into judo and got carried away -- and I was a little kid who had been taken by surprise, and I also didn't know judo and that's why I got hurt. And oh, hey, that's right, my brother never did that again." That third way helps you realize that the people who hurt you weren't ogres, they were just kind of messed up themselves, and that realization helps you at least have some closure about the situation.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:34 PM on October 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
I've not read the book -- but it sounds from what little you've said is that the author is just trying to say something in a VERY clumsy way. I don't think -- at least I hope -- that he's not saying to "reframe" the incidents as if everything was nice and happy and okay - but to recognize where you blame YOURSELF for those incidents, and re-think THAT aspect of them.
In other words -- and I'm going to take a mundane example from my own life -- I could think about the time my brother beat hell out of me with some judo moves and think, "well, i must have been a screwup that I couldn't fight back." Or, I could think about that incident and think, "Jesus, my brother was an asshole to pull judo moves on me when I was just a little kid!" But the first way leaves me feeling like a failure, and the second way makes me want to kick the crap out of my brother. The author is suggesting to find your way to a third way of thinking about it -- "you know, my brother was also just a kid and he was just really really into judo and got carried away -- and I was a little kid who had been taken by surprise, and I also didn't know judo and that's why I got hurt. And oh, hey, that's right, my brother never did that again." That third way helps you realize that the people who hurt you weren't ogres, they were just kind of messed up themselves, and that realization helps you at least have some closure about the situation.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:34 PM on October 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
Have you looked into EMDR? I don't know a lot about it but it seems exactly suited to your situation.
posted by selfmedicating at 5:36 PM on October 19, 2008
posted by selfmedicating at 5:36 PM on October 19, 2008
Oops, posted too soon. I meant to add - some people think EMDR is hokum. The article I linked to seems to imply that. But lots of people think it works. It's fast and couldn't hurt, and it might just work for you. It does seem to work wonders for some people.
posted by selfmedicating at 5:49 PM on October 19, 2008
posted by selfmedicating at 5:49 PM on October 19, 2008
I don't think you can make something a positive until you can at least make it neutral. In your case, this doesn't necessarily mean forgiving or forgetting, but it does mean being able to sleep at night and not being tortured by memories. It's not that the memories won't be there; it's just that you will not have a gut reaction to them. This may take a LONG time. I certainly wouldn't push yourself to magically make this better any faster than you need to. I haven't read the book but I'm sure the author did not mean that this would instantaneously happen.
For me - and my past wasn't nearly as horrific as yours - what has helped tremendously is mindfulness meditation. I am able to regard upsetting past events with equanimity and not be pushed or pulled around by them. I'm still in the "neutral" phase with many of them, but in general I feel like I would not be the person I am had these things not happened, and I like myself, so I accept that they had to happen for me to be me.
posted by desjardins at 7:32 PM on October 19, 2008
For me - and my past wasn't nearly as horrific as yours - what has helped tremendously is mindfulness meditation. I am able to regard upsetting past events with equanimity and not be pushed or pulled around by them. I'm still in the "neutral" phase with many of them, but in general I feel like I would not be the person I am had these things not happened, and I like myself, so I accept that they had to happen for me to be me.
posted by desjardins at 7:32 PM on October 19, 2008
Reframing is good, but it might not work in your particular circumstance. Why limit yourself to only one technique? A good place to increase your options are the books "Feeling Good" and "When Panic Attacks", by David Burns, MD.
posted by trinitrotoluene at 8:18 PM on October 19, 2008
posted by trinitrotoluene at 8:18 PM on October 19, 2008
I haven't been through severe childhood abuse, so I wouldn't want to give you a pat answer. However, I have found in my case that going through trauma has had some 'positive' outcomes - positive things about myself that wouldn't have been the case had I not gone through the trauma. I'm not saying that I would have chosen for bad childhood things to happen, but it does help me to reflect on the positive outcomes rather than the negative.
I'm not sure if you can 'reframe' the trauma as a positive event though - this approach applied to abuse seems dubious. Perhaps as you go through therapy, eventually you might see some positive outcomes.
Having written that, it sounds awful to say that you might find positive outcomes from abuse. I'm finding it hard to express what I mean, but I'm trying to convey something similar to the cliched analogy of the tree that grows on the mountainside and so doesn't grow in a straight and narrow path. It wouldn't have chosen to grow there, but it has dealt with it and is beautiful in a different way to the trees in the forest.
Something I have found very helpful and efficient is dealing with the 'body memories' of trauma. Perhaps some form of body psychotherapy could be work for you.
posted by Not Supplied at 5:50 AM on October 20, 2008
I'm not sure if you can 'reframe' the trauma as a positive event though - this approach applied to abuse seems dubious. Perhaps as you go through therapy, eventually you might see some positive outcomes.
Having written that, it sounds awful to say that you might find positive outcomes from abuse. I'm finding it hard to express what I mean, but I'm trying to convey something similar to the cliched analogy of the tree that grows on the mountainside and so doesn't grow in a straight and narrow path. It wouldn't have chosen to grow there, but it has dealt with it and is beautiful in a different way to the trees in the forest.
Something I have found very helpful and efficient is dealing with the 'body memories' of trauma. Perhaps some form of body psychotherapy could be work for you.
posted by Not Supplied at 5:50 AM on October 20, 2008
i've been thinking of this since i read it yesterday -
one of the things that helped was becoming the kind of person that i like. this was a hard for sure, but ultimately worth it. now when i'm trying to reframe things, i can add to the list 'going through what i did made me the person i am today - and that person is pretty damn cool, especially if you consider what i went through'...who knows what kind of boring, stable, married by 18 sort of gal i'd have been if i didn't freak out and panic every few years.
feel free to memail me if you'd like to talk about stuff.
posted by nadawi at 9:08 AM on October 20, 2008
one of the things that helped was becoming the kind of person that i like. this was a hard for sure, but ultimately worth it. now when i'm trying to reframe things, i can add to the list 'going through what i did made me the person i am today - and that person is pretty damn cool, especially if you consider what i went through'...who knows what kind of boring, stable, married by 18 sort of gal i'd have been if i didn't freak out and panic every few years.
feel free to memail me if you'd like to talk about stuff.
posted by nadawi at 9:08 AM on October 20, 2008
follow-up from the OP
Thanks, everyone, for your generous replies. It's been an ongoing process to heal in the one-step-forward-two-steps-back variety.posted by jessamyn at 4:24 PM on October 20, 2008
The following really resonated with me:
"The fact that you were able to leave your parents home and cut them off tells me that you are more powerful than you're giving yourself credit for."
"You got out the other side of it as a functioning human being who has an immense engine of inner power driving your motivation to heal. I can see how such an accomplishment could be overlooked or dismissed, but it's there."
Yes. It's easy to overlook this stuff because I feel like, 'Well, isn't that what you're supposed to do?' But it would benefit me to really think of those things in terms of accomplishment.
"...then i remembered that i loved the lamp in that room, and the way i had 2 doors and a hardwood floor. that room was my salvation. even in all the bullshit i was able to find peace when i was alone in there. every negative thought that didn't seem like it was trying to help me further understand or come to terms with my past, i would follow with something from the same time or space so i can refocus my energies on the things that bring me strength"
This blows my mind a little bit, and I will try this.
"Seriously, FIGHT THE FUCKING FIGHT THAT LIFE IS AND KICK SOME ASS. It's no use moping around. There are many people who have gone through shitty pasts and have come out of life happy. They are rooting for you. You can be one of those people too."
I have to remember this.
"I had an epiphany when I heard someone speaking kindly about taking responsibility for where you are, but not judging yourself for how you got there."
Yes, I think a lot of it IS self-judgment keeping me stuck.
"Something I have found very helpful and efficient is dealing with the 'body memories' of trauma. Perhaps some form of body psychotherapy could be [sic] work for you."
I am going to look into that. What happened to me started extremely young, from what I learned later.
Again, thank you all.
If you're a person of faith, look into Theophostic Prayer Ministry. It has to do with dealing with the lies we believe about ourselves when bad things happen to us, and asking God to tell the truth and replace the lies. There are certainly people who think it's bunk, but I've found it incredibly healing and powerful.
posted by orangemiles at 7:07 AM on October 21, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by orangemiles at 7:07 AM on October 21, 2008 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
My assumption is that most people who hurt children are either organically mentally ill or were themselves hurt as children by someone who was supposed to take care of them. And while we as a society have to demand that adults at some point take responsibility for their own actions, so we can't let criminals blame their crimes on their childhoods, we as individuals can work towards feeling pity rather than self-destructive anger for the specific people in our lives who have been so screwed up by their own lives that they couldn't figure out any way to deal with their problems other than to hurt us.
Here's a positive that I can take from my own situation: I am not my family, and I am working to decouple myself from their problems. They have spent their lives deeply unhappy about things that I don't need to be unhappy about. I can have a life that is better than the one they had because I have recognized and am fixing in myself problems they couldn't fix for themselves. Here's another one: I see that a cycle of depression and anger and hopelessness that I can trace back at least 3 generations on both sides of my family will end with me. I've recognized it, I'm dealing with it, and I'm not going to put another generation of children through what I went through.
The fact that you were able to leave your parents home and cut them off tells me that you are more powerful than you're giving yourself credit for. You're stronger than they are. You have the power here. They are victims of whatever made them so messed up that they felt compelled to hurt you. You are clearly not controlled by your past in that way, because you were able to break free of them.
(I have not read this book, and I have not been through experiences of physical abuse. I still hope this has been helpful.)
posted by decathecting at 9:08 AM on October 19, 2008 [6 favorites]